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Cyrelio posted:Speaking from the opposing side of the conflict, I can tell you that a lot of what you said is what I have noticed as well. As far as doctrines go, we're just trying to find out what works best for the situation. Given that we're up against many different entities who are all flying their own separate doctrines, it's gotta be hard to plan for one thing that will do good against all of them. However our numbers are slowly improving. Yesterday evening I was surprised to see we actually filled a full T3 fleet that wasn't a posted OP to try and contest the CSAA in Tenal. Now of course that fact was moot considering there were 1200+ hostiles that showed up to oppose us, but it's a good start and I hope we can get that consistently. I was bummed that we flew all the way out there (30+ jumps from our staging with a long warp tunnel every stargate because of 250+ dudes in fleet) and were not able to fight, but you have to admit that taking that fight was a good decision (at least for us). I was just talking to some of the dudes in one of our FC channels tonight about this -- I feel like once we hit a point where all the ADMs are much higher and the number of timers needed to be created is lower, progress will slow. I think right now we have kind of a blitz advantage on some of these regions. I was actually on the fleet for the CSAA kills last night, the tidi was enormous. I get kind of tired about the KILL ALL GOONS rhetoric going on because I feel that, yeah, I'm optimistic about taking deklein based on the numbers I've seen so far on both sides, but I think only an idiot believes it's going to somehow kill goons or that goonwaffe won't just regroup in lowsec somewhere and push back. This is my first experience with fozziesov, and it seems to me that defenders have a harder time holding their space even compared to dominion sov. M-O was chaotic, we (LSV) spent most of our time in J-GAMP until we were able to warp into the imperium machariel fleet and begin picking it apart, but the entosis ticks weren't even happening in our system. I can't say I like this system more because it leaves a lot of room for cheese in order to win. I'm also unclear as to what the MBC's war aims are. I guess we'll stick around for fights because we're getting paid to, but LSV, at least, has zero desire to grind a bunch of sov back and forth. No one can really tell me who would take and hold what space either, though I can speculate. But if MBC brings ~4000 people to a major timer and goons bring ~1500 again that's going to kind of seal the deal regardless, isn't it? I think best case scenario is we take deklein relatively quickly and declare "victory" and goons regroup and retake it later, worst case we get ground out and burnt out and don't take it, MBC still declares "victory" for causing a lot of damage. Either way goons will end up holding or re-taking their space, LSV goes back to lowsec, life goes on. Which is why I have such heavy emphasis on the content piece -- if people are having fun this is a good thing, EVE is getting a lot of media attention which is a good thing, and hopefully veteran players coming back will stay, and the hype will bring in some new ones. Everyone wins at the end of the day IMO. 
Kimsemus fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 07:57
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You left out part. After the Imperium is defeated to the last system and regroups, or after the MBC gets bored and fucks off; after the lost space is regained and losses reimbursed; after the current, "fifth random bloc war I've participated in since 2010" is over; after all that, begins and continues the merciless persecution of CO2 and various other entities which were arrayed against us. I believe in the New Great War. I will believe in it until the time for it comes and it doesn't happen, and should that occur then I'll gladly admit that I was duped into drinking the koolaid and believing a lie. But I look forward to it. I look forward to, after everyone on the opposing side has packed up and gone home, spending night after night after night torching every destructible asset owned by Random Corporation #72 until they have nothing left, and then moving on to do the same thing to Random Corporation #83. Posmourne hungers.  e: ohgod thats actually an emote on SA? Addamere fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 08:04
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https://zkillboard.com/kill/53079916/ Driveby on the undock. 
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Apr 6, 2016 08:07
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Apparently Waffles also spelled out "WAFFLES" in mobile depots off the undock. The clown poo poo people do in wars.
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Apr 6, 2016 08:08
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I would love to see how old times CAOD would be for this war
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Apr 6, 2016 08:14
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"Throw BAT, OSS and C02 into that gaggle of shitlords and you get the Band of Backstabbers" This bit of the ceo update confuses me. How long are we supposed to ignore the highest concentration of neutrals in eve for to avoid being called backstabbers?
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Apr 6, 2016 08:14
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objectively bad posted:"Throw BAT, OSS and C02 into that gaggle of shitlords and you get the Band of Backstabbers" It was my understanding that BAT left amicably?
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Apr 6, 2016 08:16
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Unfunny Poster posted:Apparently Waffles also spelled out "WAFFLES" in mobile depots off the undock. I appreciated the comedy value but my client almost crashed when I warped in. 6/10.
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Apr 6, 2016 08:23
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I wasn't aware of it until someone told me. If it's causing client issues you can report it to CCP and they'll do something about it like they do with bubble spam etc.
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Apr 6, 2016 08:25
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Richard Bong posted:It was my understanding that BAT left amicably? Yeah, OSS were kicked but left on good terms despite that (and spent 6 months pottering about syndicate before deploying to pure blind) and bat left amicably (and joined pl before the war started). Neither left with shooting goons or this war in mind. So attempting to paint us both as backstabbers is baffling.
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Apr 6, 2016 08:32
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Unfunny Poster posted:I wasn't aware of it until someone told me. If it's causing client issues you can report it to CCP and they'll do something about it like they do with bubble spam etc. I wasn't going to bother until I saw the two day reinforcement timer. gently caress that noise.
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Apr 6, 2016 08:40
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hailthefish posted:I wasn't going to bother until I saw the two day reinforcement timer. gently caress that noise. lol
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Apr 6, 2016 08:43
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How exactly would an "hellwar" against a group of players led by PL and NC., who both don't hold any space, look like? This is not Band of Brothers where you can conquer/destroy fortress Delve and I'm not even sure that you can really destroy TEST, given that they were purged at least once from the galaxy and have since returned.
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Apr 6, 2016 08:52
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GaussianCopula posted:How exactly would an "hellwar" against a group of players led by PL and NC., who both don't hold any space, look like? This is not Band of Brothers where you can conquer/destroy fortress Delve and I'm not even sure that you can really destroy TEST, given that they were purged at least once from the galaxy and have since returned. While PL and NC. themselves may not own space, many of their hangers on own space or at the very least destructible assets such as towers. There are also things besides blowing up pixels that can be done to ~destroy~ an enemy, most of them mean and unfair and dishonourable.
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Apr 6, 2016 09:08
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objectively bad posted:Yeah, OSS were kicked but left on good terms despite that (and spent 6 months pottering about syndicate before deploying to pure blind) and bat left amicably (and joined pl before the war started). Neither left with shooting goons or this war in mind. So attempting to paint us both as backstabbers is baffling. Pretty sure shooting goons was probably in mind because that's a large benefit of being neutral, but I don't think either was thinking about this war.
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Apr 6, 2016 09:16
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Nietzschean posted:While PL and NC. themselves may not own space, many of their hangers on own space or at the very least destructible assets such as towers. There are also things besides blowing up pixels that can be done to ~destroy~ an enemy, most of them mean and unfair and dishonourable. I maintain that once the bulk of the war is over and PL/NC. have gotten bored or otherwise decided that they achieved what they set out to do and then gently caress off, our time will be spent bending the full weight (and we have a lot of weight) of our malice on CO2. I'm certain they won't be a SOV holding entity by the end of it, and if I had my way, I'd argue the only way they get a formal reprieve from our hate machine is if they turn over the control of the alliance to us directly so we can black it out forever, same way as BOB.
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Apr 6, 2016 09:17
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If you buy into the propaganda you lose touch with reality, and that would be okay if bravado was enough.
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Apr 6, 2016 09:19
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very important war update: https://goonfleet.com/index.php/topic/204714-the-chat-bot-rc-seems-to-no-longer-respond-to-pug-related-commands/#entry7618762
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Apr 6, 2016 09:21
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so someone told me we lost the eve war and im sorry to hear it
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Apr 6, 2016 09:27
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Cygni posted:btw the basis of that logo is the Aeroflot logo, and after GoonFleet filled under the lovely old rules where the corp CEO had to train certain skills to increase max corp size and we needed to make a second corp, someone really wanted GoonWaffe to be named GoonFlot instead. i forget who that was. GoonFlot is almost stupid enough to be good, but not quite I would fly under the banner of GoonFlot.
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Apr 6, 2016 09:37
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If I came in as a fresh noob would I be helpful in any way to the war effort? I just wanna troll nerds that get asshurt about those goddamn goons.
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Apr 6, 2016 10:04
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Venom Snake posted:If the leadership sucked the entire game wouldn't be teaming up to kill us. IIRC the line in Fountain against TEST is that they would end up fighting alone because they had bad leadership. Thing change I guess? 
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Apr 6, 2016 10:29
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Kimsemus posted:I think your leadership sort of sucks if they do things which cause the entire game (including your former close allies) to alienate you, switch sides against you, then with the right prodding rise up and attack your space for reasons ostentatiously beyond "good fights." Then, on top of this, mount what could be considered one of the most feeble defenses in modern EVE memory. Maybe you have something saved up for Fade or Deklein though, IDK. You clearly weren't around in 2007 when this happened before but hearing outsiders insights on where we went wrong is always really funny so do please keep creating new theories on how we are failed.
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Apr 6, 2016 10:35
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Da Mott Man posted:If I came in as a fresh noob would I be helpful in any way to the war effort? Something something Rifters something something my ship costed less than your ammunition. (yes)
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Apr 6, 2016 11:03
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I may have missed it in the last 800 comments per day this thread is moving at, so I think I missed why BAT is a part of the declared backstabber's? The separation was pretty friendly at the time I thought. Granted, PL is the enemy right now, but PL's been friend and enemy several times (sometimes at the same time). It's not like you wouldn't expect PL to hot drop the superfleet if they feel like it before.
Comstar fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 11:05
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Imperium enemies in 2016 referencing a post that literally cited Fabian crying "Mooooooooommmmmm Mittani isn't fighting us!!!"
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Apr 6, 2016 11:05
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GaussianCopula posted:How exactly would an "hellwar" against a group of players led by PL and NC., who both don't hold any space, look like? This is not Band of Brothers where you can conquer/destroy fortress Delve and I'm not even sure that you can really destroy TEST, given that they were purged at least once from the galaxy and have since returned. It's just hurf blurf.
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Apr 6, 2016 11:10
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Nietzschean posted:While PL and NC. themselves may not own space, many of their hangers on own space or at the very least destructible assets such as towers. There are also things besides blowing up pixels that can be done to ~destroy~ an enemy, most of them mean and unfair and dishonourable. Blowing up towers... yeah, because that matters. Comstar posted:I may have missed it in the last 800 comments per day this thread is moving at, so I think I missed why BAT is a part of the declared backstabber's? The separation was pretty friendly at the time I thought. Granted, PL is the enemy right now, but PL's been friend and enemy several times (sometimes at the same time). It's not like you wouldn't expect PL to hot drop the superfleet if they feel like it before. 796 of them probably weren't worth reading to begin with
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Apr 6, 2016 11:14
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Xolve posted:Blowing up towers... yeah, because that matters. That was stated as the bare minimum. At the end of this, regardless of the outcome of the larger war, one way or another, Co2 will be liberated of all of its sov and prosecuted wherever they choose to live, until they decide to close the alliance permanently.
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Apr 6, 2016 11:23
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god its nice to hear talk of eve goons burning villages and salting the earth again
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Apr 6, 2016 11:25
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Tokyo Sexwhale posted:That was stated as the bare minimum. At the end of this, regardless of the outcome of the larger war, one way or another, Co2 will be liberated of all of its sov and prosecuted wherever they choose to live, until they decide to close the alliance permanently. In this very thread goons are admitting they were overstretched with 8 regions, now you're realistically down to 2, for now; the hurf blurf has been you'll retake your sov, so let's just imagine that means Dek and the null systems needed to get there by JB. If that's going to be all you can hold into in the future, how will you prosecute any serious revenge against CO2, much less the 40,000 other nerds arrayed against you who live in maybe a dozen different regions?
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Apr 6, 2016 11:35
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You're assuming CO2 is going to have any stalwart allies at the end of this. Given their history, I really rather doubt it.
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Apr 6, 2016 11:39
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darth cookie posted:You're assuming CO2 is going to have any stalwart allies at the end of this. Given their history, I really rather doubt it. Yeah I'm sure very few are going to stick around short term, but if whatever is left of the CFC come at CO2 and any serious brawls are had, it'll just be attracting sharks back to feed again.
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Apr 6, 2016 11:43
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how are people still thinking we're going to give them a "gudfight" after us bleating about blueballs for the last week
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Apr 6, 2016 12:03
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Don't reply to dragonstalking
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Apr 6, 2016 12:08
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Tokyo Sexwhale posted:Don't reply to dragonstalking i didn't, no quote
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Apr 6, 2016 12:10
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Glory of Arioch posted:how are people still thinking we're going to give them a "gudfight" after us bleating about blueballs for the last week The same way they believe what it says on reddit? 
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Apr 6, 2016 12:12
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GaussianCopula posted:How exactly would an "hellwar" against a group of players led by PL and NC., who both don't hold any space, look like? This is not Band of Brothers where you can conquer/destroy fortress Delve and I'm not even sure that you can really destroy TEST, given that they were purged at least once from the galaxy and have since returned. By shooting PL's monument in Amamake. 
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Apr 6, 2016 12:15
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Kimsemus posted:This is my first experience with fozziesov, and it seems to me that defenders have a harder time holding their space even compared to dominion sov. M-O was chaotic, we (LSV) spent most of our time in J-GAMP until we were able to warp into the imperium machariel fleet and begin picking it apart, but the entosis ticks weren't even happening in our system. I can't say I like this system more because it leaves a lot of room for cheese in order to win. Fozziesov is definately fixable, but CCP put the cart way before the horse. The systems needed to support fozziesov aren't in place yet, and currently, likely by design, the mechanics heavily favor the strategic attackers. There's nothing wrong with having an "attacker" bias in a sov system, since a defender bias causes trench warfare. Giving the attackers the initiative helps to keep the campaign dynamic and moving. But that is only balanced if the defenders can use the same mechanics to counter attack and cause problems for the attacker. That part of the game is non existent, because the best place to stage for a sov war is in NPC or lowsec. Who actually owns sov in a system has little effect on how fights play out beyond who might have some more POS's set up, who might have more prepared safes, and the presence of the outpost. You can attack any sov, anywhere, without holding any sov of your own. Holding a system in Fozziesov is an absolute chore. AFK cloakers and high traffic can shut down normal ratting extremely easily, so to keep up ADM's you have to run loving ratting fleets. Then when the vulnerability window comes, you have to be ready every night to guard the system against a million isk frigate. The attackers can choose when, where, and if to attack, and the defender has to be always prepared for it. If the attacker doesn't feel like showing up, they lose nothing because they are staging in a NPC station, so the defender has nothing in space to attack besides POS (which by the way, can't be killed by million isk frigates). The disparity in effort between attacker and defender in fozziesov is absolutely huge, when one hour of optional work by an attacker can create multiple hours of mandatory work for the defenders, the defenders are going to burn out much much faster, because the absolute hard cap on the war effort is how much the player wants to log in, and lets face it, most of us have limited playing time playing internet spaceships. If you spend an hour ratting up ADM's and staying formed to guard against entosis frigates, that's an hour out of your limited pool of playtime that doesn't go toward, say, an actual node contest. The "easy" way to fix this is make it so that you need sov to attack sov. This way the attacker biased mechanics can be used by both sides instead of the attacker only. Something as simple as "if X % of this system's adjacent systems are also owned by your alliance or "blues" (defined as alliances with mutual +10 or something like that) then it automatically gets X ADM". Bam, now in order to take VFK, you need to take 2R-, else it gets something like 7 ADM and there's a 1.5 hour window to entosis nodes that take an hour each (numbers adjustable, but a "headshot" of a system deep in enemy territory should require overwhelming advantages. Defenders have to send ADM fleets to keep their border system ADM's high, but so do the attackers, otherwise they lose the system they just took and the systems it's connected to get an ADM boost. Right now, how far an attacker can strike is only limited by the mobility of his ships, which is dumb as poo poo from a design perspective when combined with invulnerable NPC stations. That's the actual combat mechanics, then there's poo poo like Null still being crap for money isk/hour wise. That also detracts from the "playtime pool" that grunts have. The allure of playing EVE for free is a big one, and if someone want's to plex their account, it's like 20 hours a month of ratting, while incursions and holes can farm up that number in a fraction of the time, then spend more at the front. As an example, if you break it down. Two people both able to take 60 hours a month of play EVE, one is a "null grunt" (if such a thing exists), the other is someone like LSV, who has no sov, and a decent source of isk, either L5's, incursions, or holes. Player 1 has mandatory requirements. Say he spends 20 hours/month ratting for PLEX, 2 hours on ADM/guard fleets (not unreasonable), then he has 20 discretionary hours to spend for fleet fights and other ops. Player 2 can finish their PLEX is maybe 5-10 hours, which is being pessimistic, with L5's the number is like 3 hours. He doesn't have to run defense/ADM fleets because there's nothing to defend. His alliance can lose all the space they just took and none of it matters, since they broke the defender's infrastructure and ADM. That's 50+ hours a month to use as he chooses. Since he has no compulsory fleets to defend space, he's probably also a lot less stressed and prone to burnout. awesomecopter fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 12:29
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The aforementioned "WAFFLES" off the Saranen undock (assuming it was taken down due to it causing lag).
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Apr 6, 2016 12:46
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