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Mr. Tambo posted:Using the word "slots" in this context is really confusing. Something like "castings" or "uses" or just calling them "Spell Points" would be better. I think you will find that using those other words would not "feel" like Dungeons & Dragons. Using a term from a previous edition for something similar, but different, feels the most D&D.
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May 14, 2017 01:30
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| # ? May 30, 2024 23:48 |
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Rick posted:As someone coming from Pathfinder this all seems familiar enough (I guess it helps I played through the beginner's box). Do you really not get any skill points at each level up? I don't have my own player's guide yet (it's in the mail). You're either Proficient or not-Proficient in a skill. If you are Proficient in it, you add your Proficiency bonus and your ability modifier when making a skill check with that skill. If you are not Proficient, then you only add your ability modifier. (Bards and Rogues can also get Expertise, which allows them to add twice their Proficiency bonus to a skill, to thematically reflect being skill-monkeys) To pull off an analogy to Pathfinder, being Proficient at a skill is the equivalent of dumping all your skill points into a skill and always keeping it as updated as possible every time you level up, while not being Proficient is equivalent to not putting any skill points into a skill at all. The removal of "skill point allocation" is a design decision to reflect that half-measures are ineffective in the first place. Quixzlizx posted:Do clerics get unlimited castings of their domain spells, or one cast per day? The description seems really vague to me. As a Cleric, you always Know all of the spells on the Cleric spell list. But before you can cast a spell, you need to Prepare it. You can only Prepare a limited amount of spells, defined by your Wisdom modifier. Once a spell is Prepared (as a subset of the list spells you Know, which is all of them), you can then spend spell slots on it. Domain spells are Always Prepared, and do not count against the normal limit of spells that you can Prepare. ==== In comparison: For the Sorcerer and Bard classes, the selection of spells they Know is limited and small, but all the spells they Know, are also always Prepared For the Wizard class, they do not immediately Know all spells, but it is possible for them to, given enough time and research and loot (and GM cooperation), but then they need to select a small subset of spells to Prepare. For Clerics and Druids, they Know all spells, but then they need to select a small subset of spells to Prepare, and Domain spells are always Prepared. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 01:42 on May 14, 2017 |
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May 14, 2017 01:35
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OK, thanks. I was indeed thrown by the use of the word prepare.
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May 14, 2017 02:04
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'Slot' is a super dumb word for what the things are, since nothing 'slots' into them. I told my players to visualize spell 'slots' as different colored gems, and using a spell they have prepared consumes a gem, which they would toss into a metaphorical hat until they take a rest. Replace all mentions of 'slots' and 'higher leveled slots' or 'lowered level slots' with 'spell gems', 'higher leveled spell gems' and 'lower leveled spell gems' respectively. They're a resource, not a container.
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May 14, 2017 06:27
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Mendrian posted:'Slot' is a super dumb word for what the things are, since nothing 'slots' into them. everrrrrrrqueeeeeeeeeeesssssssttttttttttttttttttt
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May 14, 2017 06:29
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Mendrian posted:'Slot' is a super dumb word for what the things are, since nothing 'slots' into them. it used to make sense because you slotted specific spells into spell slots: you have three slots, you put Magic Missile in one, Sleep in the second, and Floating Disc in the third. If you cast Sleep, that was it, the other two slots can only cast what you slotted into them when you memorized spells. You're right that it doesn't make as much sense these days when they're more like "spell charges" since any spell slot can be spent on any Prepared spell.
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May 14, 2017 07:00
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I'll admit spell slots always took me a little extra thought until it really clicked when I got around to playing a psion and started thinking of slots kinda like charges.
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May 14, 2017 08:22
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Yeah the way it was supposed to work was that Wizards had to commit specific spells to specific slots, but had the potential to know all (arcane) spells ever. That gave them the widest possible selection of spells, but you had to commit to the spells a day in advance. Meanwhile, Sorcerers could spend any spell they wanted on any slot, but they could only ever learn a small set of spells. The Sorcerer was supposed to be a more versatile alternative to the Wizard, and the small set of spells would be worth it because you wouldn't be subject to AD&D's punishing DM-fiat-heavy rules for Wizard spell acquisition. The Sorcerer was also supposed to be able to demo the metamagic mechanics, because metamagic feat effects had to be committed to the spell slot ahead of time for a Wizard, but could be used at the moment of casting for a Sorcerer since the spells aren't tied to the slot. What happened was that when 5e disentangled even Wizard spells from being committed to specific slots (which was itself yet another 3e Unearthed Arcana houserule that Mearls made a core mechanic for 5e), there wasn't really any reason to even call it slots anymore. You could switch over to a straight-up spell points model for the intuitiveness of it, but that makes casters even more powerful because now multiple low-level spell slots can be virtually combined into higher-level spell slots.
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May 14, 2017 09:22
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gradenko_2000 posted:You could switch over to a straight-up spell points model for the intuitiveness of it, but that makes casters even more powerful because now multiple low-level spell slots can be virtually combined into higher-level spell slots. Sorcerers do this already lol
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May 14, 2017 14:26
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Dr Cheeto posted:Sorcerers do this already lol Not really. They can combine their special class points into more spells, but then they can't use their metamagic, which seems like it's the main reason to play a sorcerer. (Twinning a bunch of stronger spells seems a lot better than getting one or two more.) Edit: also, the Wizard gets a bunch of features later (and one early) that let them recover spells as well.
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May 14, 2017 15:16
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Does expertise apply to grappling as well? My dwarf barbarian loves grappling and wants to dip into rogue to make his grappling even better.
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May 14, 2017 15:39
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Yes, it does. Rogue's second-level bonus action is pretty useful for dragging grappled targets around, too.
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May 14, 2017 16:14
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There is a reason that Rogue and Bard are better than Fighters and Barbarians at grappling.
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May 14, 2017 17:49
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Ryuujin posted:There is a reason that Rogue and Bard are better than Fighters and Barbarians at grappling. Bards can cheat with magic! As for rogues, I dunno. They should be used to trying to escape custody?
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May 14, 2017 18:27
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Bards are pro wrestlers and become better grapplers by cutting promos and setting off pyro
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May 14, 2017 18:58
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Under the vegetable posted:Bards are pro wrestlers and become better grapplers by cutting promos and setting off pyro Not a day goes by that I don't wish Poison Spray were a better spell so I could justify a Great Muta character.
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May 14, 2017 19:04
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I ran a Barb 6/Rogue 2 for a few sessions at level eight. +11 to grapple with Advantage from Rage is easy street. Take a rapier and jam it into their ribs with Sneak Attack and cackle madly. Then drag them over to their friend and grapple them too. Really put the pressure on with some holds.
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May 14, 2017 19:43
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sleepy.eyes posted:Bards can cheat with magic! It never occurred to the designers that maybe allowing Bards and Rogues to be good at the one ability score that Fighters and Barbarians are supposed to be good at could somehow cause problems. I don't know why they didn't put any limitations on which skills each class could apply Expertise to; that would almost be thematic and we can't have that, no no.
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May 14, 2017 23:30
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Under the vegetable posted:Bards are pro wrestlers and become better grapplers by cutting promos and setting off pyro "I execute a tombstone piledriver as my grapple." "Roll persuasion to whisper in the goblins ear to get ready for it, then give me a performance check."
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May 15, 2017 00:42
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P.d0t posted:It never occurred to the designers that maybe allowing Bards and Rogues to be good at the one ability score that Fighters and Barbarians are supposed to be good at could somehow cause problems. The easier fix is just to make it so that grappling isn't tied to a skill check, alone of all the attack options. It's a bit of a weird exception to the normal combat rules anyway.
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May 15, 2017 06:55
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:The easier fix is just to make it so that grappling isn't tied to a skill check, alone of all the attack options. It's a bit of a weird exception to the normal combat rules anyway. And the alternative would be....? 
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May 15, 2017 06:57
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An attack roll followed by an opposed Strength check?
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May 15, 2017 07:05
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P.d0t posted:And the alternative would be....? Fighters/barbarians/whatever are Very Strong and get to say 'I pin the dragon's wings together'/'I suplex the train' in deterministic circumstances they can always work towards/a certain number of times per period.
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May 15, 2017 07:06
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JBP posted:"I execute a tombstone piledriver as my grapple." The tombstone piledriver would have to be an athletics check post-grapple to shove the opponent prone. You even maintain the grapple for that cool crossing their arms across their chest pin.
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May 15, 2017 07:44
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Uh, grappling is a skill. Small guys can grapple big guys. The whole point of grappling rules as written is so you can do silly stuff like building a Goliath grappler, casting enlarge person on yourself, and then grab a Huge (possibly Gargantuan) creature and start dragging it around at half your move.
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May 15, 2017 07:47
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Can some one help me understand the Disciplines Known limit for the new Mystic class? It says you get to choose any discipline at level 1, and it says you have a Disciplines Known limit of 1 as well. Easy enough. But, once you choose an Order such as Avatar which has the Bonus Disciplines feature "At 1st level, you learn two additional psionic disciplines of your choice. They must be chosen from among the Avatar disciplines." do these additional disciplines count against the Disciplines Known limit of 1? Becasue it would mean you'd have 3, even thought you don't get a Disciplines Known limit of 3 till level 5. So does that mean you're not allowed to learn a new one till you level up and gain a limit of 4? OR do they not count and that means at level 3 when it goes up to a limit of 2 you can choose another? It just doesn't make it clear how these bonus disciplines count against your limit, if at all. Also, before I jump to googling, does anyone know of any decent (tested & balanced) homebrew supplements that have created additional maneuvers for the Battlemaster? Some of the PHB ones are alright, but most of them boil down to "add a d8 to your attack" instead of actually trying to be creative or inventive. Otherwise I'll probably look to the Mistic disciplines for inspiration and create some of my own.
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May 15, 2017 12:08
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Under the vegetable posted:Uh, grappling is a skill. Splicer fucked around with this message at 12:32 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 12:28
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Splicer posted:It's a skill, but is it a Skill? Wizards don't roll Arcana for their fireball, they roll Wizard. Why don't Fighters roll Expertise: Fighter for their piledrivers? Why do the guy named Fighter and the class based around being an unarmoured brawler have to multiclass out to get the good numbers for brawling in a fight? Same reason Clerics made a better Necromancer in 3.5 than Wizards, bad design.
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May 15, 2017 13:16
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Splicer posted:It's a skill, but is it a Skill? Wizards don't roll Arcana for their fireball, they roll Wizard. Why don't Fighters roll Expertise: Fighter for their piledrivers? Why do the guy named Fighter and the class based around being an unarmoured brawler have to multiclass out to get the good numbers for brawling in a fight? Barbarian gets advantage on grappling checks while raging, and automatically rolls at least 20 on their checks at high levels, and gets 2-3 grapple checks per turn. They are good at grappling. Fighters get a ton of grapple attempts per turn, they are also good at grappling straight out of the box. Like are you guys mad that multiclassing allows better minmaxing wrt grapple?
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May 15, 2017 16:30
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Sorry if this is old news to you guys but apparently you were all name-dropped in a GDC talk last year (I got it timestampped to the part): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvyrEhAMUPo&t=665s
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May 15, 2017 17:35
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Love Stole the Day posted:Sorry if this is old news to you guys but apparently you were all name-dropped in a GDC talk last year (I got it timestampped to the part): This is new to me and cool to watch because jsaw is cool but what is old news is that he's well known poster Rope Kid on the forums.
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May 15, 2017 18:05
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esquilax posted:Barbarian gets advantage on grappling checks while raging, and automatically rolls at least 20 on their checks at high levels, and gets 2-3 grapple checks per turn. They are good at grappling. While raging barbarians are maybe about as good as a Rogue or Bard with Expertise. Maybe. Bard can get Advantage from another feature, and well if you go high enough level a Rogue archetype can get Advantage as well. Which solidly puts both single class classes better than the Barbarian at grappling. Fighters eventually get more attacks than anyone, except a ki burning monk, this gives them many opportunities to roll for grapple, but they are middle tier, at best, at grappling because they are not good at grappling, or at least not better than anyone else who ups strength and has Athletics proficiency. This does bring up the ONE thing these two classes have that base Rogue and Bard don't, multiple attacks so as to grapple, knock prone, and possibly even start unleashing some attacks. They get into the groove of things faster than the other two classes, assuming they actually succeed on the check which is by no means a guarantee. Now yes at an exceedingly high level Barbarians cannot roll below say a 20, and at 20th a 24. But they can't roll much higher than that. At 11th level, 7 levels sooner, a grapple focused Rogue cannot roll below a 23. 3 points higher than the 18th level Barbarian yet the Rogue can roll up to 10 points higher, a 33 is higher than a 20th level Barbarian can reach without a special magic item to set their strength to above 24, and the Rogue could benefit from the same item just as much. It gets even worse at higher levels, by 15th level the Rogue can have a minimum of 25 on their grapple, at 18th level if the Rogue was a Swashbuckler they can spend a bonus action to get Advantage on their grapple. And at 20th level the Rogue would have a minimum of 27 and a maximum of 37, easily putting the Barbarian to shame. Of course the Rogue only gets 1 attack per round, this is where multiclassing can actually make the best grappler. Take 5 levels of something with Extra Attack and the only thing that Rogue loses out on is the 18th level Swashbuckler feature, all the rest stays the same so long as they have at least 11 levels of Rogue. Go Barbarian and you can get the Rage for Advantage, though there are other ways to get advantage.
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May 15, 2017 18:32
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Some of you might want to get in on this: Mike Mearls AMA
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May 15, 2017 18:56
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Re: grappling - My point is that barbarians and fighters are good at grappling out of the box due to normal class features and how they are usually built. They are both really good at doing the grapple thing without spending any additional time focusing on grappling. If you're going to full on charop, you may as well include a mount in the mix for free dash and ridiculous speed.
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May 15, 2017 18:59
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Klungar posted:Some of you might want to get in on this: Mike Mearls AMA *lights the arivia signal*
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May 15, 2017 19:09
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Klungar posted:Some of you might want to get in on this: Mike Mearls AMA No one ever answers my questions in these. 
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May 15, 2017 19:11
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esquilax posted:Re: grappling - My point is that barbarians and fighters are good at grappling out of the box due to normal class features and how they are usually built. They are both really good at doing the grapple thing without spending any additional time focusing on grappling. But they aren't. They are at best, slightly above, average.
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May 15, 2017 19:11
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Huh interesting some stuff that Mearls himself does not like about 5e.quote:Stuff about 5e that bugs me:
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May 15, 2017 19:23
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mastershakeman posted:*lights the arivia signal* Why the gently caress would I ever talk to Mike Mearls?
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May 15, 2017 19:28
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| # ? May 30, 2024 23:48 |
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Arivia posted:Why the gently caress would I ever talk to Mike Mearls? ask him directly about all the poo poo he's helped encourage.
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May 15, 2017 19:32
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