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Is this some sort of performance art or something? I understand the benefit and feel of instant torque and all that, but the e-golf is still slow as balls. What sort of boring garbage were you driving before that makes a 10 second 0-60 car turn you into an rear end in a top hat?
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Apr 26, 2016 04:36
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kimbo305 posted:There's already cars that perform as well as your car that people already drive. Are certainly plenty of cars that need more attention to drive fast. I knew some douche was going to start talking poo poo on the specific type of car, so grats I guess. My point is, and I urge you to read the whole post, that putting so much torque in the hands of the general public seems like a bad idea to me. With the automatic drivetrain coupled with the torque, it's just super easy to be a dick with that kind of power. And yes, these cars have existed before, but we're talking about a world where everyone has 200+lbs of torque, like you know, the teenager that just got his first car. That doesn't scare you at all? You're welcome to disagree, but please do so on the basis of my post instead of being a dick 
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Apr 26, 2016 04:38
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Powershift posted:Is this some sort of performance art or something? Read my post, I drive on back country mountain roads. And on those roads, it's more like an automatic GTI, which again is enough but I'm talking about the car of 5-10 years from now where people have specs approaching Tesla on a standard car you would buy. Doesn't concern you even a bit huh? If that doesn't warrant a discussion, then don't join it. And if you think I'm literally bragging about having an E-Golf, I don't know what to say.
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Apr 26, 2016 04:41
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Taima posted:we're talking about a world where everyone has 200+lbs of torque We're talking about a world where everyone drives a Kia Optima EX. (235 ft-lb, 269 with turbo)
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Apr 26, 2016 04:41
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E-Golf - Curb weight 3400lbs, HP 115, torque 199. Focus ST - Curb weight 3223lbs, HP 252, torque 270. I haven't noticed a transformation to a mad-man on the road yet after 16 months and 32k miles. Just how long does this take to work?
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Apr 26, 2016 04:41
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It *does* make a difference to have all that torque at 0 rpm, but only in getting away from the light. People aren't going to all have 700 ft-lb Tesla-equivalent cars (even adjusted for not being 4800 lbs curb weight), because it will always be cheaper to have 200 ft-lb cars, and the downward price pressure is strong.
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Apr 26, 2016 04:45
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In Texas every teenager dreams of having 300lb/ft in his or her F-150
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Apr 26, 2016 04:54
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The Locator posted:E-Golf - Curb weight 3400lbs, HP 115, torque 199. Stick a BMW badge onto your steering wheel and it's almost instantaneous. Taima posted:Read my post, I drive on back country mountain roads. And on those roads, it's more like an automatic GTI, which again is enough but I'm talking about the car of 5-10 years from now where people have specs approaching Tesla on a standard car you would buy. Doesn't concern you even a bit huh? Manufacturers aren't going to suddenly put 500ft/lb electric motors into shitboxes simply because those motors exist. The E-golf is a perfect example. It's very indicative of what the average electric car will be, and that is slower than pretty much anything with a V6. They will outperform n/a i4 cars, but the average electric car will never be any more dangerous in the hands of an idiot than a V6 accord, v6 muscle car, or turbo 4 hot hatch. The 200ft/lb electric car is far more capable than a 124hp penalty box, but people who drive those probably never see full throttle to begin with. You can pass cars you view to be slower because they're not driving like an rear end in a top hat, whether or not their car is more capable. A slow car being driven fast is faster than a fast car being driven slow, shocker. I'm not trying to attack you or you car, but the e-golf is not fast enough to encourage inappropriate behavior. It may be the sensation of instant torque, or the aspirations of tesla ownership, or a history of 80hp cars inspiring it in you, but I would bet over half of the cars on the road could easily outrun you, and would be far more dangerous with a hard prod of the pedal. Apart from the B-class which sells like 14 cars a year, Mercedes doesn't sell a car here with less than 258ft/lbs and there are a lot of mercedes out there in the hands of new drivers, old drivers, and people who really don't give a poo poo about performance, and you really don't see them hanging from trees on the side of windy country roads.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:06
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Taima posted:My point is, and I urge you to read the whole post, that putting so much torque in the hands of the general public seems like a bad idea to me. With the automatic drivetrain coupled with the torque, it's just super easy to be a dick with that kind of power. quote:And yes, these cars have existed before, but we're talking about a world where everyone has 200+lbs of torque, like you know, the teenager that just got his first car. That doesn't scare you at all? This thought is what puzzles people arguing with you -- plenty of cars have much harder acceleration than the car you're currently driving. I'm not scared because that's reality. There's cars that rival the acceleration of the Tesla, too. It's not completely inaccessibly acceleration that is only going to happen with popularization of electric cars, whether luxury cars with powerful motors or electric analogs to existing mass-market cars. That kind of acceleration is already available for $30-40k.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:16
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Everyone in the United States is driving around a super-car powered giant pickup truck and you are worried about electric cars making rear end in a top hat drivers? The driver is always the rear end in a top hat, the car is just a tool. Take some responsibility for your rear end in a top hat driving. For the record I'm daily driving a 38~ horsepower van right now with probably two farts work of torque so I guess I'm the best driver in the world.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:23
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kimbo305 posted:There's cars that rival the acceleration of the Tesla, too. It's not completely inaccessibly acceleration that is only going to happen with popularization of electric cars, whether luxury cars with powerful motors or electric analogs to existing mass-market cars. That kind of acceleration is already available for $30-40k. Let's not get crazy here. If there's a $40K car that accelerates like a P85D I want to make its acquaintance.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:33
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Powershift posted:Stick a BMW badge onto your steering wheel and it's almost instantaneous. drat it. I knew I should have kept a momento from the M3 when I sold it.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:34
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Subjunctive posted:Let's not get crazy here. If there's a $40K car that accelerates like a P85D I want to make its acquaintance. That's not going to happen, the P85D is really something special. The 70D, however, 0-60 5.1 seconds, 13.8@101mph quarter mile. A $40k poop group charger does 0-60 in 4.1 and 12.4@115mph. Tesla's party piece which is it's passing times having only 1 gear are remarkably close as well, the tesla 30-50 is 2.0 and 50-70 is 3.1, the scat pack charger is 30-50 in 2.1, 50-70 in 2.9. The range anxiety is similar, too. The tesla will do 240 miles to a charge, the charger 250 miles to a set of tires.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:45
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Subjunctive posted:Let's not get crazy here. If there's a $40K car that accelerates like a P85D I want to make its acquaintance. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-/252361430657 It's used (and not a big sedan), but it is a car that you can get right now and be terribly irresponsible with.
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Apr 26, 2016 05:57
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kimbo305 posted:e: am I to understand that the e-Golf has a godly 200 ft-lb of torque? Gosh, that's almost as much as the '93 Taurus I drove in high school! Admittedly that thing had a lot more power than I was used to and I also drove it like a douche because it was more fun that way.
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Apr 26, 2016 06:15
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KakerMix posted:The driver is always the rear end in a top hat, the car is just a tool. Take some responsibility for your rear end in a top hat driving. Welcome to the Republican Party, and the second amendment.
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Apr 26, 2016 06:41
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Subjunctive posted:Let's not get crazy here. If there's a $40K car that accelerates like a P85D I want to make its acquaintance. You can get a motorcycle that will out-accelerate a P85D for under $10k brand new.
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Apr 26, 2016 06:44
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Guys I got a chance to see the revised model S in person today. (Factory has one on display) It looks damned good. blugu64 posted:Welcome to the Republican Party, and the second amendment.
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Apr 26, 2016 06:52
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Sagebrush posted:You can get a motorcycle that will out-accelerate a P85D for under $10k brand new. When I test drove the P85D, my thoughts were along those lines. You CAN out-accelerate it with certain bikes but you have to be a pretty good rider to do it. Unless the electronics are helping you out, launching hard without 12 o'clocking isn't easy. In the Tesla it's just putting your foot down. Sure, there are launch control and anti wheelie technology to help you. But then consider what the argument is. A highly specialized, electronically aided track weapon bragging about out-accelerating a two ton eco friendly family car. That's why I sympathize with the e-Golf comment. It might not actually be fast, but it feels faster than things that are actually faster. That instant, quiet, magnetic woosh is a very different sensation to the ketchup squeeze bottle power delivery of ICE. And since it tapers off before you smash any major speed limits, it's legal fun as well.
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Apr 26, 2016 07:41
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I have learned things, thank you! The thing I haven't found in even a Ferrari (passenger, not driver) is the eyeball-deforming leap off the line, and I haven't even driven Ludicrous. I assumed that it's because it has all its torque at 0rpm, so the change in acceleration is massive. But I haven't really thought about it deeply, and my physics marks were "often attended". (Come on new Roadster, my body is ready. Even though I'm quite pissed at Tesla right now; it'll pass.)
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Apr 26, 2016 08:29
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Ola posted:That's why I sympathize with the e-Golf comment. It might not actually be fast, but it feels faster than things that are actually faster. That instant, quiet, magnetic woosh is a very different sensation to the ketchup squeeze bottle power delivery of ICE. And since it tapers off before you smash any major speed limits, it's legal fun as well. So pick up a Zero SR. 0-60 in 3.3 seconds, all electric, $13k. Tesla P85D starts at $121,000.
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Apr 26, 2016 09:21
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I have an M4 and drive like an rear end in a top hat. In my past I've driven everything from a 78 280z with busted 4th gear to a 1994 Plymouth Voyager the color of severely bruised white skin. I've always driven like an rear end in a top hat.
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Apr 26, 2016 10:05
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Sagebrush posted:So pick up a Zero SR. 0-60 in 3.3 seconds, all electric, $13k. Tesla P85D starts at $121,000. I'd love one. But nobody's asking for shopping advice.
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Apr 26, 2016 10:18
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Powershift posted:Stick a BMW badge onto your steering wheel and it's almost instantaneous. I saw on the street in Philadelphia an i8 which is both BMW and electric! Was my life in danger? Was he about to pull out of traffic and onto the sidewalk to show off his excessive torque? 
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Apr 26, 2016 14:53
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I have a little sympathy for the "electric makes me drive like an rear end in a top hat" thing; I don't think it's entirely the acceleration, I think it's partly the *quiet*. Because in my non-electric car, the thing that mostly limits me from accelerating quickly is that the car makes a horrible noise if I really put my foot down. But I'm not really convinced that accelerating quickly alone is enough to make your driving assholish. I only accelerate fast into roads with no cars in the way, anyway, which doesn't seem like it should really bother anyone.
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Apr 26, 2016 15:13
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fordan posted:I was on the street in Philadelphia Was my life in danger? Yes
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Apr 26, 2016 15:16
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blugu64 posted:Welcome to the Republican Party, and the second amendment. You do have a point though, the stated purpose for a gun is pretty much the same as a giant lifted truck. Compensation.
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Apr 26, 2016 15:27
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Is that REALLY where you want to take this thread? Anti-gun people are just as irritating as the loud pro-gun people.
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Apr 26, 2016 16:21
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Subjunctive posted:Let's not get crazy here. If there's a $40K car that accelerates like a P85D I want to make its acquaintance. Plenty of $100k cars though
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Apr 26, 2016 16:23
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Godholio posted:Is that REALLY where you want to take this thread? I was talking about rear end in a top hat drivers being rear end in a top hat drivers, someone else brought up the second amendment. If some dude is afraid of becoming a douchebag because he drives an e-Golf it isn't the car's problem.
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Apr 26, 2016 16:24
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Also there was a little psych study going around about how Prius drivers were bigger jerks on the road because of the compensation idea - they feel like they're doing something good by driving a Prius and that this entitles them to act more like jerks on the road because it still evens out. Maybe this e-golf thing is basically the same idea.
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Apr 26, 2016 16:26
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Mange Mite posted:Also there was a little psych study going around about how Prius drivers were bigger jerks on the road because of the compensation idea - they feel like they're doing something good by driving a Prius and that this entitles them to act more like jerks on the road because it still evens out. Maybe this e-golf thing is basically the same idea. This is why all EV owners should make it a mission to cut off Prius drivers, really put them in their place.
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Apr 26, 2016 16:30
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I have a bright red A3 TDI (236 lb-ft) and I drive it exactly the same as I drove my baby blue, 3-speed auto 1990 Corolla: fairly chill and more then happy to stop for pedestrians or let someone merge in front of me. If you drive like an rear end in a top hat it isn't because of your car (or truck, or bike).
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Apr 26, 2016 16:58
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roomforthetuna posted:I have a little sympathy for the "electric makes me drive like an rear end in a top hat" thing; I don't think it's entirely the acceleration, I think it's partly the *quiet*. Because in my non-electric car, the thing that mostly limits me from accelerating quickly is that the car makes a horrible noise if I really put my foot down. Yeah, I lose track of my speed a lot more easily than in our ICE car. And yes, accelerating at ~3/4 of max away from the light, up to limit + 5, is fun. poo poo doesn't stay in the under-screen storage compartment though.
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Apr 26, 2016 17:32
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If you're predisposed to driving like a jerk I think there's something to the car/driving style correlation. Mid 20's through early 30's I drove a highly modified supercharged manual transmission import, and I drove like a MORON a lot of the time. I sold it and bought a Grand Cherokee and immediately became 65mph cruise control grandpa man at age 31. Part of that was growing up, for sure, but without the manual and the blower, there's not a lot of urge to drive in a "spirited" fashion.
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Apr 26, 2016 18:12
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Mange Mite posted:Also there was a little psych study going around about how Prius drivers were bigger jerks on the road because of the compensation idea - they feel like they're doing something good by driving a Prius and that this entitles them to act more like jerks on the road because it still evens out. Maybe this e-golf thing is basically the same idea. With my Prius, I know that even if I floor it, nothing bad is really going to happen. I've driven a Ferrari 458, and I was scared of taking corners too quickly and blasting past the speed limit in this red speeding ticket magnet.
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Apr 26, 2016 18:14
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Mange Mite posted:Also there was a little psych study going around about how Prius drivers were bigger jerks on the road because of the compensation idea - they feel like they're doing something good by driving a Prius and that this entitles them to act more like jerks on the road because it still evens out. Maybe this e-golf thing is basically the same idea. That kind of "study" always stinks of such overwhelming bullshit. Now, if they determined that Prius drivers drive like jerks because they are in fact taxi drivers, that I would understand.
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Apr 26, 2016 18:36
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Mange Mite posted:Plenty of $100k cars though While carrying 4 of your friends?
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Apr 26, 2016 19:50
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Residency Evil posted:While carrying 4 of your friends? The Tesla is still a very special car, but this debate has been whether the availability of massive potent acceleration (that could cause a rise in bad driver behavior) is yet to come through electric cars or whether it's already here.
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Apr 26, 2016 20:00
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The only thing that the past few pages has taught me is that E-Golf guy has never been in an actually-fast car.
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Apr 26, 2016 21:08
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