Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

quote:

Glorifying Meek Mill is not a good look for the Sixers | Christine Flowers

A few days ago, when the Flyers were still in the playoffs and the Sixers had just taken a 3-1 lead in their series against the Miami Heat, I was feeling so overjoyed by this year of Philly sports success that I wondered on my Facebook page: “What is God going to ask in exchange for this? Hide the firstborn sons.”

On Tuesday night, God called in his chips on my (purely hypothetical) firstborn.

Despite years of die-hard Philly sports fandom, I am no longer rooting for a home team in the playoffs.

By allowing Meek Mill, just hours after his release from prison, to ring the bell in their pivotal game against the Heat, the Sixers did something that was unnecessary, irrelevant to the sport, and designed to alienate the simple, crazy, decades-loyal fans like me. And now, as Michael Corleone would have put it, they are dead to me.

Some may ask how I square my anger at the Sixers with my very public, very proud support for the Eagles, considering that players like Malcolm Jenkins have supported Mill by attending rallies in his honor and playing his music in the locker room. My answer is this: While individual Eagles may support him, the team itself didn’t take a position. (Yes, I know that Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie sat with Mill at the Sixers game Tuesday night. I maintain that he is an individual. If every Eagles player and front-office staffer had been there, I’d be having a different conversation with myself.)

The Eagles didn’t shove Mill down the throats of fans. The Sixers did. They gave him a very high-profile platform. They glorified him. And by doing so, they endorsed his behavior — and I’m just not cool with that.

Some may argue that true fans support the players. They will speculate that the players may have had no say in the move, and that it was a PR stunt from the suits in the front office. But that doesn’t matter, because how a team presents itself is just as important as how it plays on the court.

These optics are more horrifying than a marathon of The Walking Dead. The fact that a team that I have loved and supported would give a platform to a convicted felon who has whined his way to freedom on a night when they should have been thinking of the fans who have embraced them for long, winless seasons is profoundly offensive.

I’m sure that more than a few Sixers fans were happy to see Mill’s cat-ate-the-canary smile flashing from his courtside seats. There are plenty of people who believe he got a raw deal.

But I’ve followed the Meek Mill saga for more than seven years, and I believe that instead of glad-handing with celebrities and politicians at the Wells Fargo Center, he should be viewing the playoffs from a rec room while seated next to his orange-suited peers. The fact that he has the ability to speak in syncopated rhymes does not give him the right to be treated more leniently than other parole violators.

But special treatment is exactly what Mill wanted. And he got just that, first from District Attorney Larry Krasner, who campaigned on emptying the jails. Then from Mayor Kenney, who spent an hour visiting this one convicted felon in prison. (Has he visited any other inmate for that long?)

And then, unbelievably, Mill got it from the Sixers, a basketball franchise that should have been worried about winning a championship but instead sent a message to all the law-abiding Philadelphians who worked hard to pay for their playoff tickets that they were fools and chumps. The felon got courtside seating. The rest of us work 9-to-5 to afford a few hours of joy.

The bell that Mill rang on Tuesday night was the death knell for my Sixers fandom.



http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/christine_flowers/meek-mill-free-sixers-bell-prison-philadelphia-opinion-20180425.html

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Old Binsby
Jun 27, 2014




Failed to find a related tweet but stumbled on this open letter by islamophobe MP Geert Wilders. It's a lecture on matters of the faith, to the Pope, basically asking if he's ever even read the quran. Also, turns out that muslims either aren't part of mankind or threatening even themselves by merely existing. Cool

https://gatesofvienna.net/2013/12/open-letter-to-his-holiness-pope-francis/ posted:

In your exhortation Evangelii Gaudium (paragraphs 252-253) you state that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.”

Reality does not confirm this statement. The Koran is full of bellicose and hate-mongering verses against non-Muslims. Your Holiness will be able to find them if he reads the Koran
[...]
We must speak the truth about Islam —the largest threat to mankind in this present age

sub supau
Aug 28, 2007

je1 healthcare posted:

The 'different experience with appropriation' probably amounts to most people in Asia being more conscious of the fact that their own cultures are the products of appropriation (as are all cultures)

90% of Japanese culture is directly derived from China and the west, so there's probably not much room for Japanese nationals to complain, since most advances in Japanese culture for the past century has just been them copying and modifying whatever western things they liked. From fashion, to music, cuisine, to Christian-themed weddings. They've become preferred over traditional shinto weddings solely due to the aesthetics.

Like, if there was a population of white expats in Japan complaining every time a piece of Japanese fiction used medieval Europe or the wild west as a setting (which is all the time), then they'd also be rightly seen as insecure weirdos

waiter i specifically ordered a hot take not this lukewarm trash

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

WampaLord posted:

Because we're tribal animals at heart and she's part of their tribe.

More people need to become sports fans and treat politics like politics and not sports. Sports is where you can exercise your tribalistic nature in a fairly healthy way.

I disagree I think more people need to treat politics as sports and throw half-empty glass bottles at politicians

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

je1 healthcare posted:

The 'different experience with appropriation' probably amounts to most people in Asia being more conscious of the fact that their own cultures are the products of appropriation (as are all cultures)

90% of Japanese culture is directly derived from China and the west, so there's probably not much room for Japanese nationals to complain, since most advances in Japanese culture for the past century has just been them copying and modifying whatever western things they liked. From fashion, to music, cuisine, to Christian-themed weddings. They've become preferred over traditional shinto weddings solely due to the aesthetics.

Like, if there was a population of white expats in Japan complaining every time a piece of Japanese fiction used medieval Europe or the wild west as a setting (which is all the time), then they'd also be rightly seen as insecure weirdos

But it’s also that the Japanese-American community has experienced discrimination in ways that Japanese people in Japan have not, and that Japanese in Hollywood have dealt with being typecast or exoticized and then get to see a white director pull aspects of Japanese culture into his movie because it’s safely exotic but also twee.

Like, the takeaway here is not that you can’t make movies that feature other cultures, it’s just that you gotta think about why you picked that culture and how that will go down in context or you risk coming off like a bit of a dick.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


Pirate Radar posted:

But it’s also that the Japanese-American community has experienced discrimination in ways that Japanese people in Japan have not, and that Japanese in Hollywood have dealt with being typecast or exoticized and then get to see a white director pull aspects of Japanese culture into his movie because it’s safely exotic but also twee.

Like, the takeaway here is not that you can’t make movies that feature other cultures, it’s just that you gotta think about why you picked that culture and how that will go down in context or you risk coming off like a bit of a dick.

I watched that movie and IMO 'cultural appropriation' is a really weird way of framing it. The movie portrays the Japanese people as a dehumanized Other, that's the problem, not that a white director is making a movie with taika drums and kimonos in it. Like it would almost have been a less racist movie had he literally removed all the Japanese people and left all the cultural artifacts in place. The problem is that white people like Asian cultural artifacts but very clearly consider real live Asian people to be less human than they are. I feel like the dominant postmodern discourse of cultural appropriation completely fails to address that, in practice almost recreating a sort of position that Asians are and ought to remain separate but equal from whites. The focus shouldn't be on the cultural artifacts, it should be on actual real life human people, and the response I see to intense and deeply rooted dehumanization of East Asians is pretty much an indifferent shrug

Of course, I'm a pure amateur and don't have any real indepth education in critical theory poo poo so maybe I'm wrong here?

icantfindaname has issued a correction as of 03:52 on Apr 27, 2018

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007

Pirate Radar posted:

Wasn’t the point of that article (about IoD) that it’s an American movie that exists in the context of Hollywood and that Asian people in Asia have a much different experience with appropriation than Asian-Americans do?
the title of the article was literally something along the lines of "i don't care what people from Asia have to say about Isle of Dogs" and the actual content was just as hysterically screechy. there's a valid point to be made if you're not a dipshit like that author

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

icantfindaname posted:

I watched that movie and IMO 'cultural appropriation' is a really weird way of framing it. The movie portrays the Japanese people as a dehumanized Other, that's the problem, not that a white director is making a movie with taika drums and kimonos in it. Like it would almost have been a less racist movie had he literally removed all the Japanese people and left all the cultural artifacts in place. The problem is that white people like Asian cultural artifacts but very clearly consider real live Asian people to be less human than they are, and I feel like the dominant postmodern discourse of cultural appropriation really fails to identify that. Of course, I'm a pure amateur so maybe I'm wrong here

No, that’s also part of it. Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that appropriation was the only thing at hand, we just got into talking about it.

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007

the other thing about that article was that it was published before the movie came out (iirc), so there couldn't have been any actual criticism of the movie because he hadn't seen it

Mycroft Holmes
Mar 26, 2010

by Azathoth
i just enjoyed a cute movie about dogs :shrug:

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


Pirate Radar posted:

No, that’s also part of it. Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that appropriation was the only thing at hand, we just got into talking about it.

Yeah, I'm just saying all of the critique I've seen has been couched in the language of cultural appropriation, and I don't find that framework very useful at least in this case

sub supau
Aug 28, 2007

the "cultural appropriation" framing would in almost all cases be better considered as cultural commodification

tractor fanatic
Sep 9, 2005

Pillbug
asians in america face a totally different set of circumstances than asians in asia, so there's nothing wrong with the take that asians in asia don't really get a say in american race issues. the cultural appropriation part gets way tricker if you take that stance though, since asians in america can't really claim ownership of asian culture either.

Dreddout
Oct 1, 2015

You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.
https://twitter.com/WeWuzBoomers/status/989008072726196225?s=19

https://twitter.com/_johar_ali_/status/989009505311776770?s=20

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


tractor fanatic posted:

asians in america face a totally different set of circumstances than asians in asia, so there's nothing wrong with the take that asians in asia don't really get a say in american race issues. the cultural appropriation part gets way tricker if you take that stance though, since asians in america can't really claim ownership of asian culture either.

Yes. In practice from what I've seen this leads to one of two extremes, either dismissing Asian-Americans as wrong and/or irrelevant, or dismissing Asian people in Asia as benighted ignorants who are actually the real racists and whose own identity and culture must be interpreted for them by Western-based left wing vanguard.

Cultural appropriation as a concept is dumb IMO. At least in the case of Japan/China

VectorSigma
Jan 20, 2004

Transform
and
Freak Out




lol not only were we like the last modern nation to abolish slavery, we didn't really abolish it, only restructured it.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!
It’s super tiring though to see arguments like “well I found a [minority] who thinks [x] therefore arguments to the contrary are invalid”

while we’re on that subject, how about those Kanye tweets?

sub supau
Aug 28, 2007


https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/956507441306525696

Goon Danton
May 24, 2012

Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.


Dinesh must have been very confused when he got out of prison and tried to start his "Democrats = socialists = Nazis" shtick back up, only to find that they're distinct publicly active groups that all hate each other, and that his party is firmly on Team Nazi.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

VectorSigma posted:

lol not only were we like the last modern nation to abolish slavery, we didn't really abolish it, only restructured it.
What is your definition of modern here?

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

Pirate Radar posted:

It’s super tiring though to see arguments like “well I found a [minority] who thinks [x] therefore arguments to the contrary are invalid”

while we’re on that subject, how about those Kanye tweets?

Kanye is mentally ill, he's just mentally ill in a particular way that our culture finds extremely entertaining.

Filthy Hans
Jun 27, 2008

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 10 years!)


I was hopeful about this charge until I saw who made it

MizPiz
May 29, 2013

by Athanatos
https://twitter.com/TheRoot/status/989337846749323264?s=19

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

I went and read it and after the clickbait headline the author is like “I really want to believe her because I like her but she almost definitely was not hacked”

Old Binsby
Jun 27, 2014


incredible

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010

hell yes

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!
I've got my own hot take that's been cooking for a while.

Leftists: labor theory of value
Also leftists: gently caress work

Serf
May 5, 2011


ikanreed posted:

I've got my own hot take that's been cooking for a while.

Leftists: labor theory of value
Also leftists: gently caress work

simple fact of the matter is that advancements in technology have made it so that less work needs to be done, and eventually virtually all the work will be done by machines

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

Serf posted:

simple fact of the matter is that advancements in technology have made it so that less work needs to be done, and eventually virtually all the work will be done by machines

I don't disagree with that but it does contradict labor theory of value

Serf
May 5, 2011


ikanreed posted:

I don't disagree with that but it does contradict labor theory of value

i mean work still goes into the creation of products/the extraction of resources. what does it matter if that work comes from a human or a machine? that's no excuse to say to the human "well, i guess you're useless now"

tractor fanatic
Sep 9, 2005

Pillbug
there is still a shitton of labor involved in the everyday operations of society, which is why services are valued way more than mere things now. machines are literally capital.

Goon Danton
May 24, 2012

Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

ikanreed posted:

I don't disagree with that but it does contradict labor theory of value

I mean, you're running into a few problems here. First is that the labor theory of value applies specifically under capitalism only, and the "gently caress work" / FALGSC attitude is about abolishing capitalism. Second is that the creation of value is not the same as the creation of use value, and the latter is the one that matters for the well-being of actual people. But this is probably a discussion for another thread.

rudatron
May 31, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
i'm not seeing the conflict?

'gently caress work' is because labor is, uh, hard work, but it's still necessary to create value, and is the only source of value. you don't do labor because of the labor, you do it for the the value it creates.

but in modern society, the laborer is alienated from the products of their labor, and has their surplus value appropriated from them.

Strangelet Wave
Nov 6, 2004

Surely you're joking!

ikanreed posted:

I don't disagree with that but it does contradict labor theory of value

machines embody the labor that was used to build them, both the labor of their manufacture and of their design. the labor theory of value explicitly includes the labor used to produce the machines used in production

the better problem for the labor theory of value is the value of things that aren’t produced for sale on a market but are nevertheless sold, like famous people’s letters at an auction house

e: lol u got the reds all got and bothered

Strangelet Wave has issued a correction as of 14:33 on Apr 27, 2018

rudatron
May 31, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
the extra exchange value in something like antiques, would be over and above the cost of the production of the base item, but also include the labor incurred in searching for that particular item from that particular time period, or another item of equal socially recognized value, ie, a function of scarcity

the use value in this case, is the rather marginal status signalling, of pointing to an antique and telling guests at a housewarming party about it's history or whatever - hence why only people with more money than sense buy that poo poo

Clochette
Aug 12, 2013

je1 healthcare posted:

"Upon seeing this mayo and corn-covered abomination of a "pizza" being served on a Japanese menu, I suddenly felt as if my entire heritage was torn from me. Is this how they see Italy's rich culture? Are we anything more than a collection of stereotypes, cheap English lessions, and 'quirky' dish ideas? Did they even consult a single white person before appropriating? I quickly let the manager know the severity of his error, but alas, all they did was film me and laugh at my less-than-perfect translation abilities"

Did you just imply that Italians are white?

Goon Danton
May 24, 2012

Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Strangelet Wave posted:

e: lol u got the reds all got and bothered

Hey, you can't expect us to read that huge fuckin book and not want to show off a little about it

Clochette
Aug 12, 2013

Goon Danton posted:

Hey, you can't expect us to read that huge fuckin book and not want to show off a little about it

Did you know that woven linen can be exchanged for coats in a marketplace.

I do, because it's all that Marx talks about in that first loving chapter.

Goon Danton
May 24, 2012

Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Don't worry, you'll get to sell your Bible for brandy later.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ergo Propter Hog
Jul 21, 2014



https://twitter.com/DanielLaw1998/status/985815856947998720?s=19

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply