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I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



I. M. Gei posted:

Thank you!


Anyway this is basically a hail mary, but I'm trying to transcribe a song for marching band and right now I'm working on writing the bass part for sousaphone. However I've tried splitting the track a bunch of ways using 3 different splitting tools and the bass part sounds like sour rear end on all of them. It always comes out distorted, and oftentimes notes are either inaudible or missing entirely.

The cleanest bass split I've gotten so far was from the Moises app, and even that's too distorted to make out articulations clearly, although at least I can make out (most of) the actual notes. Both melody.ml and splitter.ai (with AND without cutoffs) sound like dogshit; the melody.ml split is cleaner but has other instruments mixing in with the bass, and the splitter.ai ones are almost unusable with how distorted they are and how hard the lower notes are to hear (although my iPhone speaker probably isn't helping the latter).

Here are all of the split bass tracks I'm working with right now. I've never used Vocaroo before so I don't know how long these'll stay up. Also I uploaded the Moises tracks using 2 filetypes because I don't know if that makes a difference or not (I'm still really new at this).

• Moises (mp3): https://voca.ro/16brkS6j7HOm
• Moises (m4a): https://voca.ro/1l8kts5P7dty

• melody.ml: https://voca.ro/1f7pbeKjtrap
• splitter.ai (without cutoffs): https://voca.ro/16KDGIK55pnc
• splitter.ai (with cutoffs): https://voca.ro/1f5TIXqLxBUM

I'm wondering if there's another song-splitting tool out there that might give me a clearer bass track to work with? Free or paid, I don't really care. Or maybe a trick I haven't tried to clean up the bass splits I have now?



I haven't tried anything super fancy or expensive like Melodyne yet :shepspends:, even though I mentioned wanting to tinker with that the last time I posted here. Right now I'm wondering if there's a cheaper solution to my problem that doesn't require a 30-day free trial of some mega rear end overkill studio poo poo like that although I may end up loving around with it when I get to transcribing the percussion, which is..... a whole other nightmare I'm not ready or learned enough to deal with today.

Well I may have just ended up answering my own question.

It turns out Moises has a "Hi-Fi" splitting option for a $30/month subscription fee that I didn't see before. I ran my song through that and it split the bass track a lot more cleanly, or at least de-gunk-ified it enough that I can hear actual articulations now. So that works for the time being.



Now I'm having trouble picking out individual notes in chords, although I don't know if there's a solution for that outside of actual software (or just getting good at chords, although a lot of the chords in this particular song are pretty wonky).

I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Mar 12, 2024

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I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



Apologies for the triple post, but I've been working at this for an entire day and made about as much progress as I can on my own, and now I need to farm the rest out to goons who know audio software.

I. M. Gei posted:

Now I'm having trouble picking out individual notes in chords, although I don't know if there's a solution for that outside of actual software (or just getting good at chords, although a lot of the chords in this particular song are pretty wonky).

Okay this is officially a headache and I need help. :ughh:


So the song I'm transcribing has about 9 bars with a bunch of trumpet stings scattered throughout. The stings are all harmonies of two or three notes each, and I can only (barely) make out the highest notes on each of them.

I have two problems. The first is that I'm having trouble ID-ing the lower notes in the stings, and so is the tuning app I'm using (Tonal Energy). The second is that there's a bunch of other noise in the split track with the stings that's making the process harder. Moises has a feature that can split out wind music specifically from a song, which is awesome, but for some reason when it split these bars it dumped all of the trumpet stings into the "Other" track instead of the "Winds" track, so there's a bunch of drums and cowbell and piano and poo poo mixed in with the stings.


Is there a piece of software (or I guess an app) that can help me identify the lower harmony notes in these loving stings? Or that can filter out all the riffraff sounds in my track so I can hear the stings better? OR would any of y'all with better ears than mine be willing to listen to these bars and try to help me pick out these lower notes?

Stoca Zola
Jun 28, 2008

Could you just post the original version of the song that you’ve been feeding into these processes so there’s some context? I usually sit with a keyboard playing along with a song and do stuff by ear but I have no idea if I’d be capable of hearing the parts you’re having trouble with.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



Stoca Zola posted:

Could you just post the original version of the song that you’ve been feeding into these processes so there’s some context? I usually sit with a keyboard playing along with a song and do stuff by ear but I have no idea if I’d be capable of hearing the parts you’re having trouble with.

Sure, I can do that! I'll post the split tracks I'm working with too, so y'all can see what I'm working with.

The song is Motownphilly by Boyz II Men.

The full song: https://voca.ro/1d9HzWakj7TLThose first 9 bars at the beginning are what I'm working on right now, right before the start of the first chorus.

The combined "Winds" and "Other" splits: https://voca.ro/14wkghp1D11DThis has all of the wind parts in it, but there's other instruments mixed in it too that went into the "Other" split.

Just the "Other" split: https://voca.ro/1kUUGSso3lHlTHIS is where all those trumpet stings from the first 9 bars ended up, along with some percussion and piano. Those stings are what I need help identifying the lower notes on. The upper notes are super splatty and out-of-tune, but as far as I can guess they're most likely E5's and a couple of either F5's or F#5's (i.e. E's and F's/F#'s above the staff on trumpet). All 3 of those notes tend to be very fucky tuning-wise on trumpet, so it's possible they're all meant to be the same note but got played out of tune during the original recording.

Just the "Winds" split: https://voca.ro/15hJwHQdz9c5The rest of the winds. I'm not having any trouble with this stuff yet, although I've only worked on the first few phrases so far.

I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Mar 13, 2024

CaptainViolence
Apr 19, 2006

I'M GONNA GET YOU DUCK

i think part of the problem is that the horn stab may not be an actual trumpet. it sounds to me like an "orchestral hit" sound bank like from a yamaha of some sort that was all over a bunch of 80s/90s stuff like "owner of a lonely heart" by yes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi0Ys2y4J0s

edit: i think yes used a DX7 for theirs, which sounds more like yours, but doesn't have the big trumpet on top. maybe it's a layered sample? if you could track down what got sampled, you might be able to transcribe easier from the source and then transpose as needed

edit 2: 13:35 in this video is the sound i was thinking of, he says it's a fairlight synth a few seconds after and solos it at 14:30. if that's the right sound, maybe this will help you track it down!

CaptainViolence fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Mar 13, 2024

McCoy Pauley
Mar 2, 2006
Gonna eat so many goddamn crumpets.

I. M. Gei posted:

Sure, I can do that! I'll post the split tracks I'm working with too, so y'all can see what I'm working with.

The song is Motownphilly by Boyz II Men.


I have no substantive assistance to offer, but just want to say that a marching band version of Motownphilly sounds incredibly awesome. Best of luck with the project

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



It does sound a lot like the ORCH5 sample of the Fairlight, which itself apparently is sampled from Stravinsky's Firebird Suite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmRU6cJeVDs

Now, if you had the score for that, you'd have the chord, but you would still need to figure out an offset.

20 Blunts
Jan 21, 2017
whats up with compressing the poo poo out of drums

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




LUFS maximization, same as compressing the poo poo out of most things?

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

Drums are probably the best thing to play with to understand what a compressor does because raw uncompressed drums on record don’t even sound like what you think a drum kit does in the room, you only hear the peak and it’s awful, then messing with the compressor differently brings out different aspects of the sound.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



CaptainViolence posted:

i think part of the problem is that the horn stab may not be an actual trumpet. it sounds to me like an "orchestral hit" sound bank like from a yamaha of some sort that was all over a bunch of 80s/90s stuff like "owner of a lonely heart" by yes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi0Ys2y4J0s

edit: i think yes used a DX7 for theirs, which sounds more like yours, but doesn't have the big trumpet on top. maybe it's a layered sample? if you could track down what got sampled, you might be able to transcribe easier from the source and then transpose as needed

edit 2: 13:35 in this video is the sound i was thinking of, he says it's a fairlight synth a few seconds after and solos it at 14:30. if that's the right sound, maybe this will help you track it down!

Flipperwaldt posted:

It does sound a lot like the ORCH5 sample of the Fairlight, which itself apparently is sampled from Stravinsky's Firebird Suite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmRU6cJeVDs

Now, if you had the score for that, you'd have the chord, but you would still need to figure out an offset.

Okay, thank y'all both...... I want to put a pin in these posts for now, because they answer a lot of questions I had about this song and at least a couple of others I planned to make scores for later, but they also raise several other questions that my head just hurts too much to ask right now so I'd like to move onto another topic...



I've managed to write out more than half of the score for sousaphone and 1st trumpet. That covers the bass line and a good chunk of the trumpet accompaniment, so I'm making progress. However I need parts for three trumpets and not just one, so I need to somehow conjure two more trumpet parts out of thin air, and I don't know DICK-ALL about chords.

I might be able to take the 1st part down an octave, lose the stabs, and use that for my 3rd trumpet part, but what the hell should I do about the 2nd trumpet part? What notes and/or chords would blend in a way that emulates the original song?

Also I'd like to start working a little bit on the piano accompaniment, but the instrumentation I'm writing this for doesn't have a pit section and can't use an actual piano. What combination of marching wind instruments sounds the most like a piano? I was thinking some mix of clarinet and/or sax, but do y'all have any ideas?

Stoca Zola
Jun 28, 2008

I don't know if you have your heart set on transcribing this yourself or if you're willing to use someone else's marching band transcription of Motownphilly that they've shared, which I found here:
https://www.angelfire.com/band2/keanon/midi.html
If you can import this into your notation software it could at least give you some clues about what's going on so you can work out which elements you want to focus on for your own arrangement. I don't think the track labels are particularly accurate since the midi program changes the flute track to strings and the track labelled tenor seems to be a drum part.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



I do have my heart set on transcribing this myself, yes. It kinda bums me out a little bit to even see another transcription, although I know they exist.

Stoca Zola
Jun 28, 2008

Yeah that makes sense to me, I originally downloaded it to listen to it to see if I could hear the chords better. It took me quite a while to realise I could just look at it in notation mode in reaper, although for me that’s not as useful as hearing it.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



What is Reaper? I've seen it mentioned in this thread but haven't ever used it myself. Is it good for identifying notes and chords and things in a track, or is it more for original composition?

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




I. M. Gei posted:

What is Reaper? I've seen it mentioned in this thread but haven't ever used it myself. Is it good for identifying notes and chords and things in a track, or is it more for original composition?

It's a DAW, so more for mixing and arranging audio, hosting virtual instruments and effects, etc.

It supports midi tracks, which you can view in notation mode, and it can host a wide range of VSTs, some of which may be helpful for transcription. But it sounds like it would be way more software than you really need for what you're trying to do.

People talk about it a lot because it's very cheap (can be free - you can run it in evaluation mode indefinitely, and all you get is a little 5 second nag prompt at startup). It's also very full-featured as a DAW, if not always in the cleanest interface.

JeffLeonard
Apr 18, 2003

TV Violence

I. M. Gei posted:

What is Reaper? I've seen it mentioned in this thread but haven't ever used it myself. Is it good for identifying notes and chords and things in a track, or is it more for original composition?

Have you tried Transcribe? It's an inexpensive little program that does a pretty good job of identifying notes & chords, and can isolate instruments with varying levels of success.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



JeffLeonard posted:

Have you tried Transcribe? It's an inexpensive little program that does a pretty good job of identifying notes & chords, and can isolate instruments with varying levels of success.

Google shows several programs called Transcribe. Which one are you referring to?

JeffLeonard
Apr 18, 2003

TV Violence

I. M. Gei posted:

Google shows several programs called Transcribe. Which one are you referring to?

Transcribe! from Seventh String Software

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



JeffLeonard posted:

Transcribe! from Seventh String Software

I can give that a try.

Right now I'm working on the piano part. I think I've identified the upper notes in the chords but the lower ones are giving me some trouble, and I'm having some issues telling how long the notes are. As far as I can tell it's a 4-bar repeating loop, but the note lengths aren't very consistent and the track split isn't too clean.

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I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



Well I went to download Transcribe!, only to discover I had already downloaded it years ago and just never used it. So I updated to the most recent version. :v:

However, it too is having trouble making heads or tails of these notes, and a big part of the reason why is because the piano splits I have just aren't very clean to start with.

Here's what I'm working with.

Regular piano split:
https://voca.ro/14LYRHNnP6zM
Hi-Fi piano split:
https://voca.ro/1ieOivjiukTz

So far, all I've managed to gather is that it's a 4-bar repeated phrase, with 4 note-chords in each of the first 3 bars and 5 in the last one, give or take. I've identified the highest notes in each chord, but I'm still having trouble with the lower ones, and Transcribe! has a lot of guesses as to what the chords *might be* but can't seem to pin them down very well. I'd imagine the loops were all meant to be about the same, maybe with a tweak here and there.

I've tried slowing the splits down on both Transcribe! and Moises, and apart from helping me ID the lead notes it hasn't helped much. Even the note lengths aren't very clear, although it's a fairly common swing-16th rhythm.

The lead notes basically go like this:
Bar 1: D3, D3, D3, D3
Bar 2: D3, D3, D3, D3 (occasionally this bar starts on a lower pickup note)
Bar 3: G2, G2, G2, G2 (the first note in this bar is almost always really hard to hear)
Bar 4: G2, G2, A2, C#3, C#3

If anyone can help me identify those lower piano notes I'd really appreciate it.



EDIT: Moises has a feature that uses AI to guess at the chords for each part of a song, although it only does it for the whole entire song and not just the split-up parts of it.

Based on the chords shown during the first two piano loops, this is my best guess at what the piano notes are right now:

I'm not 100% sure if the lowest notes should be there or not, since it almost sounds like they're omitted in the splits.

Comments? Suggestions? Any better guesses than this?

I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Mar 19, 2024

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