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Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

I'm looking for suggestions and advice on an audio interface.
Going to be using it for:
-recording voice and various instruments using mics (a beta 57a and an e835 for now)
-DI guitar and bass (sent to amplitude)
-Live DJing with a laptop & Ableton live

Features it needs:
-2 mic/line pres/ins
-PC & Mac compatable, Desktop & Laptop compatable (pretty much leaves me with USB & Firewire)
-Ability to cue monitor through headphones using Live (at least 4 outputs)
-MIDI I/O
-(bonus points to something I could route additional mic preamps into)
My budget is around $350 atm

My initial thought was to get an Mbox2 as I've heard great things about 'em and they are only $350 with an academic discount, but it looks like they only have 2 outs which is a bummer. Now I'm looking at the Edirol FA-66 6X6, the Focusrite Saffire and the M-Audio FireWire 410, but I'm sure there are other units out there that fit the bill as well. How does the quality of these units compare in terms of build, Preamps, and ADC/DAC and stability? Haven't heard much about the Edirol, but it does look sexy and sturdy, and amazon has a great price on it. Focusrite are the folks that made the first Mbox aren't they? I've heard nothing but good about the Saffire, but it is on the expensive side. I've read about a lot of people having problems with the M-Audio 410. Ideally I'd get something like the Edirol FA-101 or MOTU Ultralite (!), but they're a bit too expensive right now.

edit: Are there any good options or reasons for going with an interface that doesn't have mic pres, but has lots of inputs so external pres could be run through them? I haven't explored this at all and it just occured to me that it was an option.

Splinter fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Feb 12, 2007

# ¿ Feb 12, 2007 12:31

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 21:54

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

You can definitely trigger the drums samples with MIDI. I'm not familiar with BFD, so I'm not sure how it is set up, but my guess is each of the 18 drum sounds is (or can be) mapped to a different key on the piano roll, so as long as you are only using 18 sounds or less, you only need 1 instance of BFD running (though you may need to merge the 9 midi files together into one). No need to use your soundcard's general MIDI drums.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2007 03:54

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

I'm looking for a small portable audio interface to use for mobile DJing as well as home recording. Right now I'm looking at boxes with two mic pres and room for expansion. I have my eyes on the MOTU Ultralite mk3 because reviews have said it has quality mic pres and ADC/DAC, it has a bunch of line ins that I could run other preamps into if I ever want to expand, and it has built in DSP. Is this a good choice? Are there other interfaces I should consider that are higher quality or a better value (cheaper)?

On a related note, does anyone have experience using MOTUs CueMix software on Windows? I read that some people had problems with that, but that was over a year ago.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2008 01:49

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Douwe posted:

I recently had to throw out my Creative audigy 2 platinum pro zs soundcard because it was causing problems with my system. I used it's external pre-amp thingamajiggie with a cheap-rear end mic to record some quick vocals so as to present my bandmates with current versions of my vocals to their music. Nothing of quality was ever needed, it won't be used for releases anyhow.

The problem: the onboard soundcard I am left with does not have a pre-amp like that of course, and consequently I can't even hear myself over the music.

What would you recommend? Instead of my $5,- mic, can I hook up my jts nx8 (xlr 3-pin) somehow? Is there a good soundcard with standard pre-amp out there, or is there a better solution to quickly and easily record some vocals?

This has probably been asked a bunch of times before, but honestly this thread makes my head spin, and newer equipment is out there now. TIA.

edit for spelling

You have two options. Get a stand alone preamp and route the output into your onboard sound card's line in. OR, get an audio interface that has at least one preamp.

The stand alone preamp is probably the cheaper and easier option. The audio interface option can be tricky to setup if you want to continue using your onboard sound card (for instance, for surround sound) and only have 1 set of speakers.

A cheaper preamp is fine for your purpose as long as it works. Something from this category is what you're looking for.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2008 23:44

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Douwe posted:

Thanks, I see what my local stores have to offer. That M-Audio Mobilepre USB that the rules thread mentioned looks kinda nice. With that we could make some simple recordings at bandpractice as well.

edit: heavy rain has stopped me in my tracks. Does anyone have a good suggestion for Splinter's second option; audio interface with pre-amp? What is such an audio interface, a new soundcard? I have no love for my onboard soundcard, so I wouldn't mind ditching that for a better one. The upside to this, as I see it, is that there will be knobs for volume and other output levels as well as just the knobs for input levels that you would have on a stand-alone pre-amp. This way I will have to open the sound control-panel in windows less often, which is nice.

A friend of mine has no problems with his Mobilepre. It'll get the job done.

Yes, an audio interface is like a sound card. It typically refers to external firewire/USB interfaces designed for music production, rather than internal PCI cards designed for games, movies and surround sound (though there are some internal cards made for recording).

# ¿ Sep 30, 2008 22:45

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

xfrancox posted:

My specific questions are about my newly acquired 002. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to set it up for what I need. At the moment my humble setup is all in my bedroom. I live in Brooklyn in an apartment so it's not like I have some extra room I can spare to move it out of my bedroom. I realized quickly that if I'm recording something then I have to mute my monitors and have the talent use my headphones. Seeing as how the 002 only has one headphone out that means I'm sitting there with no way to monitor what's going on.

What do you all suggest for this? With what the 002 has to offer how can I set it up so I have multiple monitoring options. I was thinking some sort of headphone splitter? How could I set it up so that I can give the talent one mix while I have another? My thoughts were to set up a submix using aux inserts on each track but what would I set the output of my submix to?

A splitter from the headphone jack would work, but you'd both have to listen to the same mix. The submix idea is the way to have different mixes for each headphone. Send the submix to a pair of the outputs 3-8. I'm not certain about this, but I think you might need a headphone amp to use these outputs with headphones. If not, you'll still need something that combines the two of the mono TRS outputs into a stereo TRS jack that the headphones can be plugged into. If you want to get fancy you could get a headphone mixer that takes more than two channels of input and allows the listener to dial in their own monitor mix on the fly.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2008 08:51

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

OhhCrap posted:

I was thinking we could get that mixer, hook up the drum mics and then the guitar into the amp, and the amp into the mixer.

What kind of amp does the guitarist have? If it doesn't have an emulated speaker out or is an amp modeler like a POD, you're going to want to mic it. An alternative in this situation would be to send the guitar straight in the computer and route it to an amp modeling plug-in in your DAW.

OhhCrap posted:

Hm. That makes the most sense to me. The only problem here is there are 8 total inputs, where 7 of them will be used for the drum microphones, only leaving one more input, for guitar. That excludes the possibility of any other instrument recording through that interface simultaneously, but I might have to just deal with that. I can't really spend too much on this (I have a limit of about $700~800 to spend on the interface, mics, cables, etc.) If anyone has any other suggestions for an interface, mics, cables or stands, I'd appreciate it.

You don't need 7 mics for the drums, especially if you are just starting out doing some home recordings. You can easily get a great recording using 4: a kick mic, a snare mic and two overheads for a stereo image. I'm not sure what mics to recommend for that price range though. $800 is stretching it for an 8 input interface, mics for drums and guitar, cables and stands.

# ¿ Oct 6, 2008 07:58

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

I'm getting an Ultralite mk3 when I get paid but my computer doesn't have firewire built into the motherboard. What's a good firewire card to purchase that will get the job done with minimal headache?

# ¿ Oct 7, 2008 00:21

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

The PCI interfaces that don't look like they have mic connectors require external mic preamps to run into the cards inputs. There's a ton of preamps out there, ranging in price from $30 to thousands of dollars. I'm not sure how any given budget preamp compares to the built in preamps on other interfaces. It looks like the Delta 1010 LT has two built in mic preamps (the big gray 3-pin connectors) and the Audiophile doesn't have any.

Out of those three interfaces, I like the Delta 1010 LT because it has a bunch of additional I/O in case you ever want to expand your setup. Its main disadvantage is it gives you a big jumble of cords coming out of the back of your computer rather than neatly arranged inputs in a breakout box. The lack of a breakout box also means you have no external volume or trim controls.

$200 is enough for a basic entry level interface. There are a lot of options out there at level. Could you be more specific about what you want to do? Do you need 1 or 2 (or more) mic/instrument inputs? Do you eventually plan on recording multiple instruments/sources simultaneously? Are you okay with a PCI solution, or do you want the portability and cross platform compatibility of a USB/Firewire device? Do you care about the upgrade potential of your interface in case you decide to expand your setup in the future?

If you want to go with USB 2.0 or Firewire, there are some more capable and respected interfaces available around the $300 price point.

The SM57 is a good choice in your situation. It can get an adequate recording of pretty much anything, and no matter how deep you get into recording, you'll always have a use for it. There are better mics for specific situations, but if you can only get one mic on a budget, I'd go with the SM57. You may want to look into some sort of windscreen or pop filter for the 57 when recording vocals.

The only thing I'd be worried about with the 57 is it produces a fairly weak signal. Combined with the preamps on cheap interfaces that often don't have much gain, you may have trouble getting decent levels when recording unamplified instruments. That's interface dependent though.

I recommend taking a look at Ableton Live if you're interested in making electronic music. Some people say it has a steep learning curve, but I think it's intuitive and can get you from a concept to a rough draft of a song quickly.

Now a question of my own...

I just ordered a MOTU Ultralite mk3. Originally I was going to get a TI firewire chipset card to go along with it, but I just found out my Audigy 2 ZS has a TI firewire chipset. The model I have has most of its inputs (including firewire) on an external breakout box that connects to the PCI card via firewire and another data cable. Will daisy chaining the Ultralite into the breakout box's firewire port cause any conflicts or power issues? It seems like that would put the Ultralite and the Audigy on the same IRQ, and I wouldn't be able to disable the Audigy when using the Ultralite because it relies on the Audigy's firewire. Is that fine as long as I'm not using the Audigy for anything while I'm using the Ultraltie, or is this asking for trouble?

# ¿ Oct 15, 2008 10:37

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Roctor posted:

To answer your questions:
I would definitely like the option of being able to record at least vocals + instrument at the same time, but at first I only really need one. I don't play with any people at the moment so the most I could ever do on my own is two.

I'm definitely OK with the PCI solution. I have no reason (that I know of) to need the advantages of a cross-platform portable device. However, I also just assumed that PCI were better all around.

I definitely want to be able to expand the setup, whether or not I actually do. My whole plan was to drop something like 500-600 bucks to get me started, then as I hit walls buy more specific gear.

$300 isn't unreasonable, I'd definitely like to look into these, especially given the potential weakness of the 57 with these cheaper ones you mentioned.

PCI will give you higher transfer rates compared to firewire 400, but for audio, firewire 400 is more than fast enough for anything you'll ever do.

The Delta 1010LT looks like your best option on the PCI front at this price range. It gives you a lot of room for expansion and has two mic preamps. The price is also great for what you get. It has a few drawbacks though. First, there's no breakout box which means no physical monitor volume or preamp gain knobs. That means you'll have to make these adjustments in the software control panel. I'm assuming the control panel has preamp gain control, but I've never seen the software, so that's something to look into. Second, there are no high Z (instrument) inputs. That means if you want to run something like a guitar or bass directly into the computer, you'll need to go through a DI box to get good levels (basic DI boxes aren't expensive). The mic inputs also do not have phantom power. That isn't an issue initially, because dynamic microphones like the SM57 don't need phantom power. If you ever get a condenser mic though, you'll have to get an external device to provide phantom power. Also, all the analog I/O being RCA jacks means you'll need adapters to connect most gear to the card. That being said, I think you'd be happy with this card.

On the firewire interface front, raising your budget to $300 gives you access to the Presonus Firebox, the Focusrite Sapphire and the Edirol FA-66. These are all probably a noticeable improvement over what you can get at $200 (see the posts above for issues with recording levels on the cheaper units), though I haven't seen as many reviews about the Edirol. These all have two mic inputs/preamps with phantom power and two high Z instrument inputs for sources like guitars (the Edirol only has 1 high z input). They all have a few additional inputs and outputs, but not as many as the Delta 1010LT. The I/O on these devices are balanced though, while the Delta's are unbalanced (except for the mic inputs). This probably won't matter in your case though. You only need balanced jacks for long cable runs, and the signal is only balanced if every device in the chain is balanced. The firewire interfaces all have plenty of physical knobs to control monitor and headphone volume and input gain. The Sapphire is unique because it has onboard DSP to give you EQ, Compression and amp simulation on your inputs and reverb on your monitors without taxing your CPU and degrading performance.

Stay away from TC electronic interfaces. They have great hardware for the price, but they are plagued with problems due to horrible drivers.

Whatever you decide, if you go PCI, make sure you put the card in a slot that doesn't share IRQ with other PCI slots or motherboard components. If you go Firewire, make sure you have a firewire card that uses a Texas Instruments firewire chipset, and don't use any other devices on that firewire card. A firewire PCI card with a TI chipset can be found for around $30 if you need one.

Roctor posted:

Ableton Live is the first one I looked into just because of the collaboration thread. It also seems more respected and 'serious'. The learning curve did seem like a bit much, though. With fruity loops, for instance, I figured there would be enough free web resources to take advantage of to learn what's up. I guess I could become a permanent resident in this thread and the electronic music thread while I learn it, making everybody sick of my questions. The other issue is $500 just seems like a much bigger barrier to entry than the FL and sonar $100.

Ableton recently released a crippled version of Live 7 (LE) which is $150 to download or $200 for the boxed version. Here is a comparison between LE and the full version. It's pretty generous as far as crippled versions go and you probably wouldn't feel its limitations for awhile as someone just starting out in music production. The lack of track freezing could be an issue if you have a slower machine, but due to the limitations on simultaneous virtual instruments and effects, you'll probably be alright. You can get around the limitations on simultaneous virtual instruments and effects by bouncing parts to audio when you're ready to add something new. Owning LE will also get you a discount if you ever upgrade to the full version. There are some good online Live resources, and the tutorials built into the program are great.

Try out all the programs you're looking into thoroughly before making a decision. They all can produce a similar end product, but take a different approach to getting there. Finding a program that you're comfortable with and is quick at accomplishing tasks you do frequently will make producing music much more enjoyable and inspiring. A program that you're constantly fighting with to produce the the result you have in your head will quickly suck the motivation out of you.

Roctor posted:

Thanks a ton for the response and the answers. It's been really helpful. It's weird, as a technical person who is also musical I figured there'd be really no issue with figuring out what is best for my situation, but there's just so much poo poo to consider. It's really overwhelming coming into this stuff for the first time.

Yeah, its a confusing market, and at this price point there is no perfect solution. When you see interfaces selling for $550-$1500 with similar specs to these cheaper ones, you realize the cheaper ones have to be cutting some corners somewhere. This is reinforced when you see companies release 8 preamp interfaces for almost the same price as their 2 preamp offerings. Anyway, good luck with your purchases.

Splinter fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Oct 16, 2008

# ¿ Oct 16, 2008 02:56

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

6025 posted:

stuff

If you want to use Pro Tools, the Mbox 2 is the way to go. The downside of the Mbox 2 is it only has 2 analog ins and outs. If you ever see yourself recording more than 2 (mono) sources simultaneously or using more than 1 stereo out, you might want to look into an interface with more I/O.

I'm not sure if there are any decent USB interfaces that come bundled with Cubase LE, so you might have to drop $150 on Cubase Essential 4 if you want to use Cubase. The bundled Cubase LE may be enough to get you started with what you want to do, depending on which version of Cubase it is, but you'll likely want to upgrade to a less crippled version as you get more into producing. LE has very low caps on the number of simultaneous inputs, effects and virtual instruments you can use.

Is there any reason you are limiting yourself to USB and not Firewire? If you don't go with Pro Tools, most of the quality interfaces use firewire. Even if your computer has no firewire port, your best option may be to get a firewire card (with a TI chipset) and a firewire interface instead of a USB 2.0 interface. What is your price range for an interface and DAW software?

Now I hate plugging Live all the time, but since you're going to be using your software for live performance, you should look into using Ableton Live as a DAW. It is one of the best programs for live performance and also is a full featured DAW. There's a 14 day full featured trial, and some interfaces come bundled with a "Lite" version. One of the Mbox 2 bundles has Live 6 Lite. It looks like Live LE @ $150 has enough features for what you want to do.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2008 02:21

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

6025 posted:

Oh hey Splinter, thanks for replying, sorry I didnt notice yesterday. You cleared up a lot.

I was looking at USB because I don't have a firewire port and I'm sick of taking my computer apart but i definately grab a card and chuck it in if there's a clear benefit.

Ableton sounds good too, I haven't really heard of it before this thread.

I wanted to keep my total price range between $300 and $600 and I'm fine with only being able to record two mono or one stereo, that's no big deal for me. More would be nice but that stuff looks expensive. What is important to me is that it has midi in/out.

Okay so it's best for me to get an interface that comes with ableton LE and a firewire card?

I'm having trouble finding anything in the way of appropriate interface now. LE costs close to 300 on it's own where I am and I can't find an interface packaged with it that has midi in and out or I did but they were over a thousand dollars. Can you guys think of anything or am I stuck spending a lot more money than I thought?

Interfaces bundled with Live usually come with Live Lite, which is more crippled than LE. I think Lite is aimed at being rewired into another DAW rather than being used as a stand alone DAW, but it might depend on the particular bundle. LE is selling for $150 (with Operator thrown in until the end of October) at the big online stores and Ableton's website has it for download for the same price. There's no way for you to take advantage of these prices?

I wouldn't say a firewire interface + Ableton is your "best" option. Choice of DAW is a personal preference. They all can produce similar end products, but they each take a different approach to the process. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. Most agree that Live is a step above the rest for live performance.

If you aren't going Pro Tools, two firewire interfaces to checkout are the Focusrite Saffire and the Presonus Firebox. Both have 2 mic/instrument ins and are selling for $300. The Saffire has built in DSP effects and two more outs than the Firebox. The firebox has two additional line ins. Both come with Cubase LE, so you could download the Live demo and see which system you enjoy using. If you like Live, pick up LE, if you like Cubase you can upgrade LE to a more functional version.

Using Live, the additional stereo outputs on these two interfaces will allow you to preview loops and samples in your headphones before bringing them into the mix that's coming out of the speakers. This is useful for performing if you're creating loops on the fly, improvising your mix or tweaking/changing synth patches. I'm not sure if this can be done easily in Cubase or Reason. You can't do this with an Mbox 2, regardless of the DAW. Something to consider if you see yourself making use of that feature...

A firewire card with a Texas Instruments chipset will run you ~$30. Avoid a card that also has USB ports and don't run anything besides the interface on the card. Making sure the card isn't sharing IRQ with any other devices is also a good idea. I've seen the ADS Tech PYRO thrown around as good cheap option here. Some interfaces are more picky about firewire cards than others.

Ohms posted:

desk

Sweet desk...the built in racks are coooool

Splinter fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Oct 23, 2008

# ¿ Oct 23, 2008 12:46

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

7.62WorldOrder posted:

Thanks for the info. I've got an SB Audigy2 I use in my gaming rig that I was thinking of using as the interface on my DAW, as I already have a mixer I can use for the audio, then just getting a regular 5.1 sound card for my gaming rig since gaming is all it's used for. The Audigy has the MIDI and 1/4" jacks I need and supports 96Khz. Is using a gaming card for a DAW a bad idea?

Your Audigy2 should have ASIO drivers (my Audigy2 ZS did). In your DAW, or whatever program you're using MIDI with, make sure you select Creative ASIO or Audigy2 ASIO instead of DirecSound or WDM. You should be able to bring up an ASIO control panel in the software that lets you select the latency of the Audigy2. How low you can get the latency without experiencing pops and crackles partially depends on the speed of your computer. I find a total latency of 20ms or lower is enough to use a keyboard without being thrown off by the delay. Your actual latency is going to be a little higher than whatever you set in the control panel, so if you're aiming for 20ms, you'll have to set it lower than that. I found 10ms worked well for my setup. When picking your output driver, avoid the 96Khz options unless you really need 96Khz. The 96Khz drivers always performed worse than the others for me.

The Audigys with the breakout boxes or the 5.25" bay boxes are kind of made for audio production. Their primary purpose is gaming and home theater uses, but Creative would tell you their latest whatever super platinum sound card can be used as an audio production solution. That's why they have MIDI, 1/4" inputs w/a "mic preamp" and ASIO drivers. The problem is the production components are very low quality. Running a guitar direct into the 1/4" jacks sounds like rear end, and the "mic preamp" is garbage and can't be used for any serious recording. It does have some plus side though. MIDI always worked perfectly for me, it has built in General MIDI synths/samples, it can load soundfonts and it has plenty of I/O options (especially digital, at least on my model).

I was able to use mine as a temporary music production solution for a few years. DI guitar sound okay if I put a clean boost pedal before the input and routed the signal to an amp modeling VST. Sequencing VST synths and samplers worked fine. I was even able to do a live performance using Ableton without any problems (I couldn't cue monitor though). As long as you can get your latency to an acceptable level, your Audigy should be able to hold you over until you're ready to buy a quality interface. It has its limitations, but its certainly a step above onboard sound or a generic PCI card with no connectors besides analog 7.1 and maybe S/PDIF.

Splinter fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Nov 19, 2008

# ¿ Nov 19, 2008 02:14

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

If the output is a direct out, its probably sending the signal from the amps' preamp. The signal will sound a bit different than what you hear from the amp because you're bypassing the amps power amp and speaker, which both have an effect on the sound.

A 1/4" -> 1/8" adapter should work fine.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2008 03:23

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Reversed guitar = record guitar then play it backward. The tail of the notes come before the attack. It gives the effect of a strong fade in to each note. Listen to the guitar solo on Castles Made of Sand by Hendrix.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2008 13:40

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Regardless, Firewire does have higher sustained throughput than USB 2.0 even though on paper USB 2.0 is faster than firewire400 (480MB/s vs 400MB/s).

http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm

# ¿ Nov 25, 2008 04:45

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Handen posted:

What are some really good resources to learn to use Ableton Live from the point of view of a total beginner? I see ads for online courses via Berkeley School of Music etc, does anyone have any experience with that?

How about for Logic 8?

The AskVideo Ableton DVD is well made. Last I checked they hadn't updated it for Live 7, but pretty much everything from 6 will apply to 7 and you'll only be missing specific info on the new devices 7 added.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2009 00:02

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Gnarled Doodle posted:

Someone please tell me which headphones to buy for mixing and mastering, I don't care how much they cost, just tell me what ones to get and I will get them ok - but if they are poo poo I will be very mad at you about it.

Thanks

Ahhhh, a trick question.

Don't mix or master with headphones if you can avoid it.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2009 02:11

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

If you're interested in live applications, check out Live. It's one of the best programs out there for performance and its pretty full featured as a DAW as well (especially once 8 and Max for Live are released). It's my personal favorite for creating music, but for tracking bands its probably not anything special. I'd be surprised if there's anything key you can do in FL but not in Live. It comes down to what interface and workflow works best for you.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2009 09:37

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Three Red Lights posted:

Once you've got a shitload of tracks in Ableton is there any way to clean things up visually? Or do I have to wait until 8 comes out with the zoom feature? Ideally I just want to be able to say, "all those tracks up there? They're done, I dont want to have to look at them anymore" and shuffle them offscreen somehow.

The best you can do right now is shrink the tracks you're done with to their minimum size (width of the stop button in session view, height of the record/solo buttons in arrange). This makes it much easier to distinguish between the tracks you're working on and the tracks you're done with.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2009 03:01

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

First off, you probably won't find an audio interface made for recording that will be able to do surround sound. Most won't have enough outputs, and the ones that do aren't designed with home theater and gaming uses in mind (surround sound mixing, maybe). One option is to install your old sound card (or latest 7.1 creative or equivalent) to use as your main sound card/output and only use whatever recording interface you purchase with your recording software (using ASIO drivers). This SHOULD work, but that's no guarantee. You may end up with some driver or hardware conflicts that may not be easy to fix.

Second, the z680 5.1 speakers are not going to be any good for mixing audio. If you are serious at all about mixing and creating good mixes, you should buy some 2.0 monitors. You can get an entry level pair for under $200. That's stupid cheap for monitors, but they'll still be a huge improvement over the z680s. Even a hi-fi 2.0 pair (not designed for mixing) would be a step up from the z680s when it comes to mixing.

Most audio interfaces these days are firewire or USB. There are a few PCI cards in your price range, but they aren't necessarily the best option. Most of them would require you to buy a separate preamp or two since they don't come with any built in.

Here's an example of what's available in the PCI world in your price range:
M-Audio Audiophile 192 (no mic pres)
E-MU 1212M (no mic pres, only 2x2 analog I/O, you probably won't use half of its features, and suspiciously cheap for what it claims)
M-Audio Delta 1010 LT

The 1010 LT looks like your best bet if you go PCI. It has more I/O than you need, 2 mic pres, MIDI and S/PDIF. You'd only need a (very cheap) adapter to plug your 1/4" guitar cables into the RCA cables, though you'd probably get a lot more out of your guitar if you purchased a DI box to go through (I doubt any of the inputs are high Z). As a bonus, you may even be able to use your 5.1 speakers with this thing and actually get surround sound (especially if your speakers have a S/PDIF input).

That being said, I'd look into some firewire and USB interfaces as well. They'll be a lot easier to work with since they have physical trims and all the ins and outs on a box that you can put in a convenient place. There are also a lot more options out there, but be wary of the cheaper interfaces that offer the same features as the ~$300 units. The ~$300 units are considered low end in the pro audio world and they're already cutting corners there.

Here's some popular firewire interfaces that have been around for a bit and have generally had good reviews:
Edirol FA-66
PreSonus FireBox (cheaper if you go b-stock)
Focusrite Saffire LE

I think you'd be happy with any of those. I don't have experience with cheaper firewire interfaces, but you'll probably see a drop in quality and/or features as you go down from here. There could be a cheaper interface out there for you, but we'd need more info about exactly what you want to be able to do now and in the future. If you see yourself getting more into recording and mixing I'd suggest leaving some room for growth (feature wise) with whatever you purchase. I will say that MIDI is less important these days, since most MIDI keyboards or knob/fader units can be connected directly to the computer via USB these days rather than having to go through a MIDI interface.

Whatever you do, take some time to research whatever motherboard you purchase. Some are just not that great when it comes to pro audio gear. If you read a lot of user reviews on interfaces, you'll see a lot of people blaming poor drivers, processor brands or Windows (among other things) for their problems. Sometimes it is the drivers, but often times you'll see users with similar setups report they're having no problems. Sometimes this has to do with how the computer is setup (BIOS settings, OS settings, lack of OS maintenance, etc.), but I'm convinced that some motherboards just aren't great at handling the demand some pro-audio hardware puts on the PCI bus.

Also, if you go the firewire route and have any problems, buy a PCI firewire card that using a Texas Instruments chip. For whatever reason, a lot of interfaces don't play well with other firewire chipsets in some cases.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2009 07:12

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Mr. DNA posted:

I have a MOTU UltraLite-mkIII, a Rode NT1-A and a Sure SM57. Can anyone suggest ways of miking the room to get the best recording? I will not have a chance to experiment on location so I am hoping for something like a general rule of thumb that will be passable in most situations. Thanks for any advice.

It's going to be tough with only 2 mics in addition to vocals from mixing board. I'd say your best bet is to use the NT1 as a room mic and close mic something with the SM57. What you close mic depends on the band. What's the most important or impressive part of their sound besides vocals? What will benefit the most from the detail? What do you want to be able to pull out of the muddy mix you're likely to get from the NT1? If it's a guitar-centric band I'd probably throw it on the lead guitar amp. If there's an electric bass, check to see if the amp has a DI output that you could run into one of your line ins. Guitar amps sometimes have an emulated speaker out that you could run to a line in as well. You should be able to get a direct feed from keyboards as well from either the mixing board or the keyboard itself.

As for the room mic, the farther back you put it the more room sound (reverb) you'll get. Far also means people walking or talking near the mic will sound relatively louder in the recording compared to a closer position. You don't want to go too close either though as that will put some instruments too close to the mic relative to other instruments giving you an unbalanced recording. Exactly how far back it should be really depends on the venue and setup. If you can elevate the mic so its a good deal above the crowd, do it.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2009 14:41

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

d0grent posted:

I want to know what you guys would recommend to me in the $200-$400 range. All I really need is good quality 1/4" jacks to record bass/guitar and possibly vocals, and a good quality midi input.

Do you already have separate preamps that you're going to run into the sound card? If not, you're going to want an interface with preamps and XLR inputs in addition to 1/4" jacks. If you want to run electric bass/guitar directly into the interface, you need 1/4" jacks that are "Hi Z" (high impedance).

Some good interfaces in that price range are:

Presonus Firebox
Edirol FA-66
Focusrite Saffire (or Saffire LE)

I'm not sure about interfaces with only 1/4" and MIDI.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2009 21:10

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Three Red Lights posted:

No poo poo, I meant recorded in the same room sounding like a "real" band.

A reverb return track?

# ¿ Apr 7, 2009 05:07

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Gorilla Salsa posted:

Can anybody running a dual monitor setup show me how having two monitors is useful for recording? I'll probably get two anyway with this new computer, I just want to see an example. I'm not really sure how running two monitors works for multiple applications, although I've gotten somewhat of an idea from screenshots on Google Image Search. But one application accross 2 screens? consider me baffled.

EDIT: Anticipating using Ableton Live Suite 8, if that helps.

As far as I know, Live keeps everything attached to its main window, and the main window doesn't stretch across 2 monitors. If you are running plugins though, you can put the plugin windows on the other monitor so you don't have to cover up anything in the main window.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2009 03:25

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Elder posted:

If I had two monitors I would probably put the edit window on one monitor and the mix window on the other.

You can't do that in Live.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2009 10:03

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

mr_package posted:

You can still have instruments / eqs/ plug-ins on one and the main mixer/tracks window on another though, can't you? I am not a Live user but I'd be surprised if they don't support multi monitor setups in some useful way in the latest versions.

You can put windows from 3rd party instruments and effects on the second monitor, but all of Live's built in instruments and effects are completely integrated into the main window. Nothing can be undocked from the main window. This has it advantages. It keeps the interface clean because you don't have tons of windows floating on top of other windows when using a single monitor setup. Most other large DAWs seem like they are designed for dual monitors and can get quite messy when using a single monitor.

That being said, it would be nice if you could have session view on one monitor and arrange view on the other, or split off the audio/midi editing panel and the effects/instrument panel to the other monitor. I'm surprised that functionality hasn't been added yet, and I expect that it will be soon (Live 9?).

# ¿ Apr 18, 2009 22:53

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Col.Kiwi posted:

What? Of course you can stretch the main Live window over two monitors.

That doesn't do you much good though unless you're running a ton of tracks.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2009 23:34

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Gorilla Salsa posted:

Would you be willing to post a screenshot of this? I'm curious as to how it works? Or maybe a screenshot of a functional way to use two monitors in Live?

Imagine running Live on a single monitor that's the same height, but twice as wide as your current monitor. That's what using 2 monitors is like except with the break between the monitors. Unfortunately, you can't do things like open session view on one monitor then split off the piano roll or arrange view to the other monitor, because the different views aren't separated into their own windows like they are in most DAWs. If you use plugins, you can stash the plugin windows on the second monitor, keeping your main Live window clean.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2009 10:54

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Cage posted:

Just a quick recording question. The only thing Ive ever recorded was acoustic music. Using a mic always seemed to record everything quite nicely. Now I want to record some of my electric stuff.

While messing around today, I just plugged my bass directly into my mixer, bypassing an amp and mics. Doing this, the volume is very quiet, and if I move it up to the right level it starts to distort and clip. Is this because its just plugged right into the mixer? For some reason I thought doing so would amplify the signal or something. Is it as simple as using my amp to "amplify" the signal? (I hope the answer isnt as obvious)

Anyway, whats the best way to record electric guitar/bass? Should I plug into my half stack and just use a mic?

edit: ok. after reading the OP, my problem is probably that only the mic input has a preamp on the mixer

If you want to run direct into the mixer, look into a DI box. A lot of bass amps also have a DI output on the back. If you decide to DI with guitar, you'll probably want some sort of amp simulator program/plugin. Even if you decide to mic the guitar, its a good idea to split the signal and record the guitar DI as well as the amp. That way if you later decide you want a different guitar sound, or the amp recording just isn't working in the mix, you can re-amp the DI recording (sending the DI recording back out to an amp and the recording the amp again) or use it with an amp simulator.

# ¿ May 29, 2009 10:24

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Ramseyk posted:

I tried using send effects, and I can't seem to get the sends to pan left or right. I manage to get it to work, but the sound is in the center, and the original recording without the modeling can be heard (clean guitar), which is not what I wanted. Any thoughts?

Set the send to be pre channel fader. There should be some setting that lets you choose pre/post somewhere. This way you can zero the fader on the dry guitar track without also muting the signal that's sent to the Amplitube send.

Alternatively, you could create another empty audio track and put Amplitube as an insert there. Then route the output of your two dry guitar tracks to the input of the Amplitube track.

The problem you're having is amp simulators are generally setup to take a true mono (hard panned) input and turn it into a stereo output (so your guitar comes out of both speakers instead of just one). Check to see if Amplitube has any signal routing tools that will make the left channel input only output to the left out and the right in only to the right out. If you can do this, I think you'd even be able to use different amps/effects for each channel. I know GuitarRig has an audio splitter that could accomplish this.

That being said, worse comes to worse, using 4 instances of Amplitube and keeping one or two frozen at all times won't be as bad as it sounds. How often are you actually adjusting the tone/recording on all 4 instances simultaneously? Freezing is a reversible operation. When you're recording or editing your clean track, freeze your rhythm tracks. If you then want to make changes to the rhythm tone or record more rhythm, freeze the clean and lead tracks and unfreeze the rhythm tracks. Yeah, it's a little more time consuming because you have to wait for the tracks to render whenever you freeze them, but that's a sacrifice that sometimes has to be made when producing with a slower computer. You may appreciate having all tracks still separate when you get to the mixing stage.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2009 22:16

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Ramseyk posted:

Eh, I don't know how to do this. I'll read up on it though.

How exactly you accomplish this is DAW specific, so you'll have to read up in the manual. I guarantee Cubase can do this though. Even so, you'll still be left with the problem of Amplitube centering your 2 hard panned rhythm tracks (as you seem to understand).

quote:

This is pretty much what I want to do...but, how? I tried it with sends by inserting amplitube into an FX track then opening it as sends in both my rhythm tracks, which i said works, except the sound is now centered and now panned anymore.

Again, that's DAW specific. I use Live and its a pretty straightforward process there. Each track has an output pull-down menu that lets you select where you want the output for that specific track to go (generally either to the master output or to another track's input). I'd be very surprised if Cubase didn't have a similar feature. Putting Amplitube in another audio track rather than in a send track will remove the problem of having to mute the dry guitar output, but again, you'll still run into the problem of Amplitube centering both hard panned rhythm tracks.

quote:

This is the thing! This is basically what I was hoping i could achieve, except that I looked all over amplitubes interface and I can't find anything. Interesting thing to note, my amplitubes have panning controls, except they're greyed out. I can only use them when i open amplitube as a seperate program outside of Cubase.

I haven't used Amplitube for years so I can't really help you here. The best advice I can give is to e-mail IK Multimedia and see if they can help you out. It seems like something that can and should be implemented, but who knows if its actually possible in the version you have or not.

Personally, I'd just run however many instances you need and freeze whatever your computer can't handle. Unless your planning on upgrading soon, I doubt this will be the last time you have to juggle frozen tracks. May as well get used to it now. Even if you do figure out how to split the hard panned inputs inside of Amplitube, I'd wager you'd still have to run two separate amp and effect chains, even if you wanted both parts to have the exact same tone. If that's the case, running both rhythm tracks in one instance of Amplitube won't end up saving you much processing power or RAM anyway.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2009 10:53

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

I'm building a new computer this weekend and had planned on only installing a 64-bit OS (Windows 7 RC or Vista Home Premium). Will I be okay in terms of compatibility with music production apps, or will I be forced to dual boot to 32-bit XP? I primarily use Ableton Live & GuitarRig with a MOTU Ultralite mk3. Are there any notable plugins that won't work in 64-bit Windows? Is 64-bit support the norm or the exception these days?

# ¿ Jul 3, 2009 03:31

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

h_double posted:

Can anybody recommend a decent free tool for 24->16 bit sample conversion?

On the same note, what's a good program or method for high quality sample rate and bit depth conversion? Does SoundForge do a good job?

# ¿ Sep 4, 2009 00:03

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

No. 9 posted:

I've been looking at:

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=4

and the

http://remixmag.com/production/hardware/remix_focusrite_saffire_le/

Any ideas? This has been getting super frustrating.

The Firebox and Saffire are both solid choices. They've been around for awhile, reviewed well, and most people that buy them seem to be happy with them. I know multiple people with Firebox/pods and they've all been satisfied with their units.

It looks like the non-LE Saffire is only $50 more than the LE, so you might want to take a look at that if you're leaning toward the Saffire. I have no idea if the non-LE has better pres and converters, or if the only major difference is the DSP and extra headphone out.

The big question here is, what's you budget? When people are looking for a 2 preamp firewire interface I recommend the the Firebox and Saffire as a lower bound for an entry level unit. I feel like units cheaper than these are cutting too many corners in terms of quality or features. The Edirol FA66 is another interface to look at in this range. If you want to spend more though, there are more expensive units that will offer a significant increase in quality and features. For instance, at ~$500 there's the MOTU Ultralite, and if you really want to drop some cash there's units like the RME Fireface 400.

If I were in you're spot right now I'd go with the Firebox. It looks like its price is down to $200 at most stores now, which is an amazing deal. At Amazon its under $200 with free shipping. This thing was selling at $300 for quite a while, and it looks like its competitors haven't come down in price nearly as much.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2009 08:38

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

The MOTU also has higher quality pres and converters than the lower priced models. The most bang for your buck right now is definitely the Firebox.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2009 20:12

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Elder posted:

Can anyone recommend a FireWire card for a Lenonvo laptop that will definitely play nice with a MOTU interface? I know there are a lot of issues with FireWire compatibility out there and I want to be sure to get something that works.

Don't know a specific card, but look for one with a Texas Instruments (TI) firewire chipset.

RivensBitch posted:

I think original MBoxes are selling on ebay for like $150, and they'll usually include protools if you feel inclined that way. I was going to sell mine until I saw how cheap they were going for, and decided that the convenience of having it around outweighed the money.

Totally forgot about the Mboxes, good call. They're also quality interfaces, especially if you want to ever use ProTools. I usually don't have them on my mind because they only have 1 stereo analog out, which means you can't cue monitor (have your headphones play something different than your speakers). That's only an issue for DJs and some live performers though. There's also no MIDI on the Mbox 1, but most MIDI controllers can be connected via USB these days, so its not an issue for a lot people. Finally, the Mboxes (except the Pro) can only sample at up to 48kHz rather than the 96kHz that most Firewire interfaces can do. Whether or not that is significant depends on who you ask.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2009 11:58

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Mandals posted:

Click here for the full 1440x900 image.

How do I make my Live look like this?

# ¿ Sep 24, 2009 08:43

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Mandals posted:

Here's where I get most of mine. http://sonictransfer.com/ableton-live-skins/

Thanks. I had no idea there were so many 3rd party skins available. None of the built in skins have that kind of contrast between the border and interior.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2009 23:10

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 21:54

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

Thirst for Savings posted:

along with this card that from what I've read on Newegg and around the web, should be compatible with the FireBox.

I'm using that card with my Ultralite and it works great. It definitely has a TI chipset and its one of the few cards that's recommended by Avid for use with its firewire products.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2009 02:18

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > No Music Discussion > Musician's Lounge > HOME RECORDING MEGATHREAD: Rivensbitch Teaches Recording

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