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Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

SlimGoodbody posted:

I see you guys keep mentioning something about "four words," but I'm drawing a blank as to what you're referring to. I think I vaguely remember something similar from the oracle?

Yeah, the Oracle said something to the effect that V would gain 'ultimate power' by saying the right four words, at the right time, for all the wrong reasons.

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Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

This could go very badly for V, for reason just pointed out to me:

- V is going to get his soul spliced with several souls of extreme power.
- He's going after a dragon who likes to plan and scheme, and hates V (and may have visited an Oracle that could let him know how this is going to work out).
- Said dragon has soul-binding necromancy scrolls.

I don't know enough D&D rules to figure out how this is going to go, but it seems like having two soul-related magics in one scene is a Checkov's Gun.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Is a pink dragon a reference to what Bell posted, or an actual type of D&D dragon?

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

seaborgium posted:

He gets to go home eventually, and he's happy about that. I guess something could get made up, but Durkon is happy and you should be too.

There's an important detail in the Origin of PCs that will come up if and when he does go home...

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

That depends on whether Xykon can make more or not. If he can, not much will happen. If he can't, I imagine he'll chase O-Chul metaphorically pretty far to get it back.

As awesome as Xykon is, I guess I wouldn't mind if, via a incredibly clever strategy, possibly involving the Monster in the Dark, the good guys managed to kill him here. It would open the door for Red Cloak to become the main villain (shaking things up a bit) and would really catch a lot of people by surprise.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Noia posted:

"I don't get why you're all so certain this was the MitD's doing." Was what I was going to say until I reread that strip.

...did you not notice the change in eye glow and the capitalization on 'escape'?

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Don't forget that it may not have low intelligence, it may just be phenomenally naive, the result of being kept in a cage its whole life. It picked up Go "very quickly", which is a game known for strategic thinking, and the little time it has spent with O-chul has greatly increased its awareness of the consequences of actions.

I really hope this results in O-chul joining the Order of the Stick. He's a cool guy, I want him to stick around, and he could pursue his goals by staying with them.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Really, the whole 'agents of good try to tell Roy something, but he misses out' thing is probably just another joke about how no one in the party (except Belkar) managed to catch on that V made a pact with evil. (Since it would cause problems if they had.)

What I want to know is what V takes from this whole side-quest. Does he learn from it? Does he learn the right things from it? Or does he just keep along his current (most probably self-destructive) path? Going back for the paladin was a good first step, but, well, I guess we'll see...

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Oh, god, shut up about alignments.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

I haven't read the story, but how do you become impoverished as an immortal? Every five or ten years, take something somewhat valuable and store it in a safe spot. Take out something that's a couple hundred years old at the same interval and sell it for a large profit.

The hardest bit would be finding a safe storage spot in the modern world, but with the funds from one of these 'investments', you could probably pay to have a secure vault set up somewhere undeveloped.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Ashenai posted:

So do you guys think a Lawful Good person would be more or less likely to pursue immortality than a Chaotic Evil one? (Assuming that the process itself doesn't involve any alignment-impacting acts.)

I'd say about equally likely, just, as mentioned, for different reasons.

seaborgium posted:

There's a prestige class of a good lich that hangs around to do just that, although if I remember right they generally defended an area, or a nation, something like that.

In the new 4th edition, they designed it so that by getting to level 30, you can achieve some form of 'immortality' in one way or another of your choosing, based on how insanely overpowered you are by that level. This can range from simple 'Lived on in song as the most badass guy ever' to 'Ascend to godhood' to 'Beat the reaper in a duel and become the new reaper'. Some of them are actual literal immortalities, though. For example:

quote:

Undying Warrior

   You are the ultimate survivor. Kobold spears, goblin arrows, orc axes, dragon fire, the necrotic touch of a wraith—you’ve seen it all in your adventures. And you’re still alive to tell the tales.
   Death has tried to claim you many times, but it failed. You have either survived your wounds or returned from beyond mortality’s shroud. Each time you faced death, your soul quickened within your body, attaching itself more deeply to your physical shell.
   As you grow in epic power, destiny conspires to keep you breathing. You recover from wounds that would take the life of any lesser mortal. Your reserves appear limitless. Whenever an enemy tries to take you down, your retaliation seems assured.

...

When you have reached your career’s destined end point, your immortality is assured. Simultaneously a being of soul and body, you pass through death’s final mystery only if you choose to do so. Until you decide to abandon your body, it is your vehicle to eternity.

It makes me sad that I'll probably never play a D&D game that lasts long enough to get to this upper-tier stuff.


edit: 4th edition also has a variation on the non-evil lich:

quote:

Archlich

   You pursue eternal life as an undead creature. Most wizards who search for and achieve easy immortality by way of esoteric necromantic texts are evil, avaricious spellcasters who stop at nothing to achieve their ultimate goals. For some, that goal is lichdom itself. But you have a greater, nobler purpose.
   Unlike many who have become liches before you, you have trained your mind to avoid succumbing to the madness that necromantic preservation often brings. For instance, you did not perform the foul ritual that traded your life for animation the moment you found it; you waited until your power was equal to the change. Nor did you accept the aid of Orcus, Demon Prince of the Undead, to empower the ritual, but you waited to find methods outside his control. In doing so, you escaped his touch, though you bear his personal enmity to this day.

Bobulus fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jul 19, 2009

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

You know, if there are some illusions that undead cannot see and some that they can (while both would be seen by normal adventurers), you could filter out any undead attackers by providing them with false information only they could act on, like, say, a sign with a lie on it behind an illusion of a blank wall.

Everyone else would see a blank wall and keep going.
The undead would see a sign, act on it, and fall into some trap you've set up.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Cabbit posted:

No, but she's dumb enough to try.

But she's got no reason to betray Xykon. She's a necromancer whose only goal (so far) has been to hang out with dead people.

I think it's more likely that she figures out what this spell-combo does, decides to tell Xykon, and Redcloak is forced to silence/kill her in some way to keep Xykon out of the loop.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

I appreciate that the lizard guy gets little pterodactyls instead of bird.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

You know, it's probably just as well that this kingdom turned out to be not-so-nice. If they'd been willing to bargain with Elan and co, it would have gotten super-awkward when V's whole 'wipe out a poo poo-ton of black dragons' thing came up.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Wolfsheim posted:

the same goofy idiot.

I don't know...he was willing to shove a party member out the window in a carefully executed gambit.

I'm willing to bet that this guy is every hero's worst nightmare: The evil overlord that is aware of genre-conventions.

As in, the guy who makes sure to make his air ducts too small to crawl through.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

It's not even a very good list. I swear there was a better one for RPG cliques, but I can't find it in a casual googling.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

oobey posted:

This?

Unless I'm just mixing these two lists in my head, that's not it. The one I was thinking of was a list of things to do as the final boss of an RPG to subvert all the types of tropes listed there.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Mystic Mongol posted:

Dragoons, my man. Off by an O.

Maybe they'll be Dragon Goons. Dragoons.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Pale, fanged, special dietary needs? That's not an albino lizardman cleric, that's a vampire lizardman cleric! :downs:

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

terminal mehmet posted:

That is somehow immune to sunlight.

That's why I used the Downs emoticon. Highly unlikely, but I couldn't resist posting it anyway. And I don't know enough about D&D vampires to know if they can get around that.

Plus, you know, cleric of a Death deity.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

I am the Moon!

(let's see how many people also read the TGD forum...)

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Well, the potion's effects stopped changing her voice when she entered the Anti-magic field (note the loss of color in her speech bubble).

I'm not clear enough on my D&D rules if that negated the potion, or the effects of the potion.

In other words, if she leaves the anti-magic field now, before the potion wears off, does she get the effect back?

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

rotinaj posted:

Numerically, they could have killed the poo poo out of Miko with the whole Order. Morally is out of my hands, that's up to the writing.

Are you forgetting about the initial meeting with Miko, where(under very specific conditions) she kicked the entire group's collective rear end?

Presumably that was because the DM of this D&D game didn't want his new NPC insta-killed. Durkon assumed it was the Gods setting stuff up that way.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Perhaps because it would explicitly negate the moral Haley is trying to teach her dad, I'm wondering if he always gets caught because Uncle Geoff is a traitor...

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

I kinda want one of those two guys to join the Order. They're so much fun!

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Ouch.

...

All the guards are firing horizontally. I bet the kneeling one lives.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

To head off any anger: yes, there are differences between the two editions. Many people prefer one edition or the other.

No one here cares which version you think is better. Shut up.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Cabbit posted:

I'm sure Elan's related, the apple just fell farther from the tree. Nale's nothing like his mom, for instance.

I don't remember if it was book commentary or an actual strip, but basically Dad is Evil and Dramatic, and Mom is Good and 'Loves needlessly complex plans', and each of the kids got one trait from each.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

CapnAndy posted:

I'm sticking with my "It's Draketooth" theory until I get proven wrong.

It would work well with Elan's dad's 'I know about Draketooth' evasive answer, but I have a hard time imagining a rogue with a battle-axe.

I'm going to go with 'That dwarven barbarian from Draketooth's party that everyone thinks is dead', just for the spin it would put on the story.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Who What Now posted:

The fix to this is not playing with spergy assholes who power- and meta-game to absurdities.

Yes, but that's the fix to every RPG ever...

As long as we're continuing this derail, I totally do not get the claim that 4th ed classes are 'all the same'. I've only played a few characters, and they all play wildly differently.

Heck, just comparing my paladin tank to a fighter tank to a warden tank, three classes with similar roles, their different types of marks are completely different.

edit: Warden, not ranger. Bah. I blame lack of sleep.

Bobulus fucked around with this message at 03:31 on May 20, 2011

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Android Blues posted:

Finally this book makes sense. I was trying and trying to figure it out, but it just didn't all lock together until I read this. Thanks Technogeek, now I can finally finish the trilogy!

Pssh, don't bother. The later books are way too much like WoW. I mean, Gandalf levels and what does he get? A free epic mount!

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Oh, come on! We just finished an edition argument. Do we really want to start an alignment argument, too?

I say, no.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

For those in the audience with a poor memory...

Roy and Thog are nothing alike.

For added irony, Belkar describes what Roy did as 'going all Lou Ferrigno'. Lou Ferrigno is who played the Hulk in the 70s tv series.

Bobulus fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jul 11, 2011

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

I tried reading KoDT, but it was just too grognardy for me.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

sansuki posted:

Also, why Ranch Plane? I thought he had to go to a real plane?

Maybe V was fighting a Sauceror this whole time. :downsrim:

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Nale's gimmick is supposed to be his needlessly complex plans, but since several other villains have necessarily complex plans, it doesn't stand out.

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

It's been way too long, so I can't remember the exact details, but didn't Nale kill this guy's adopted child or something?

Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Gay Polymers posted:

Stupid deux ex machina...

Malack makes me want to roll an evil cleric so bad.

Didn't he claim to be a neutral cleric?

Or, at least, cleric to a non-evil Death god?

edit: He pointed out that Death-gods and their clerics can be neutral, but didn't specifically say he or his god were of that type, technically.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html

Bobulus fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Oct 20, 2011

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Bobulus
Jan 28, 2007

Apocron posted:

Now I'm wondering if Malack's special diet is sinister:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0743.html

Hey, my silly prediction is over a year old now:

Bobulus posted:

Pale, fanged, special dietary needs? That's not an albino lizardman cleric, that's a vampire lizardman cleric! :downs:

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