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Black August posted:Exactly. It's a hop, step, and a skip away from black armor and dark powers, all justified under insanity and delusion. Being a fallen Blackguard almost begs one to become delusional and requiring power again for the sake of "purity" and "vengeance", and considering how bad she's going to hurt, all it'd take is a few right words and a prison bust for her to be back in black. Woah, I'm pretty sure Blackguards have to be ACTUALLY evil. They can't just be psychos/morons that think they are doing the right thing. That'd be like Belkar becoming a paladin solely for the class benefits, acting pretty much the same with the exception of restricting his more sadistic tendencies to evil creatures and limiting his negative interactions with good people to mild dickery instead of outright violence, and actually receiving divine power. No lawful good god would give a chaotic evil person like Belkar powers, not even if it furthered the cause of law and good in the long run. I can't see why evil gods would act any different. People with inherent conflicts of interest make poor disciples. If her motivations are good then there's no way that evil gods are going to give her spells and poo poo. Miko has a lot of character flaws, but being evil is not one of them.
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Jan 31, 2007 04:49
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tsob posted:You do realise that what you've just described as impossible is pretty much exactly how Jedi fall and become Sith right? If it works in that case, I fail to see why it wouldn't in the case of D&D, though admittedly I'm not familiar with the rules and play. Still, power corrupts... It's completely different. The dark side of the force reprograms people to become evil if they aren't already. Jedi don't fall on their own, there is an outside evil force seeking to corrupt them. It's not a natural psychological response to power, it's a side-effect/hazard of opening your mind to the influence of the force. I don't know of any equivalent to the 'dark side' in D&D, and I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Evil gods come from one place and good gods come from another, it's nothing like the force where the light and dark sides stem from the same place. To put it simply, a jedi with a powerful connection to the force is more vulnerable to the dark side than a jedi with a weak connection to the force, whereas a paladin with a powerful connection to the divine is more resistant to corruption than a paladin with a weak connection to the divine (note: zeal does not imply a powerful connection). I don't know where the whole Paladin = Jedi and Blackguard = Sith thing came from, but it's not really applicable. Evil gods want servants who want the same thing they want. They aren't going to make someone who is a good person deep down into a loving blackguard. I'm not saying it's not possible that Miko won't become one, but I think it'd be pretty stupid if she does. Wex Major fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jan 31, 2007 |
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Jan 31, 2007 06:44
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Dammit Who? posted:No, evil gods want servants who'll do what the evil gods want. What the servants themselves want is completely irrelevant. I was under the impression that blackguards were fairly valued servants. As in, their betrayal would be a loss. Gods don't have infinite power, why would they share it with someone who is only kept in line through deceit? Evil gods are evil, not stupid. Also, quote:The blackguard epitomizes evil. He is nothing short of a mortal fiend. The quintessential black knight, this villain carries a reputation of the foulest sort that is very well deserved. Consorting with demons and devils serving dark deities, the blackguard is hated and feared by all. Some people call these villains anti-paladins due to their completely evil nature. Their black hearts revel only in darkness. That doesn't sound like that leaves much room for moral ambiguity. "I must do the right thing at any cost and also I jump to the conclusions" is lightyears away from "I burn down orphanages and sell the charred corpses to pedophilic necrophiles for an unreasonably high price and also I declawed my cat with a sledgehammer". Unless Miko turns out to actually be evil instead of just misguided and arrogant (which is entirely possible), turning her into a Blackguard without any sort of deliberate mind control or brainwashing would be lame and contrived, not to mention cliche. And if she turns out to be actually evil then that would undermine the entire point of the character, which would also be lame as gently caress but at least it would make sense. quote:I have no idea why you're all so angrily arguing paladins and blackguards and jedi or whatever, I'm pretty sure the writer of the comic will do whatever he pleases to make it an interesting story and doesn't give two shits about D&D alignment system and how it should force everyone to act. Yours is the only post in this thread so far that has made me anything resembling angry. It's a discussion. Just because someone's posts are long and/or involved doesn't mean they are in a frothing rage.  I don't know why you guys apply critical thinking skills to things
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Jan 31, 2007 21:03
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SuperKlaus posted:Well, the other thing to me about D&D morality is that it's the morality of a feudal world. Those two were probably outside the jurisdiction of any law and attacked her so she did what a samurai would do and wasted the scum. It's not like paladins traditionally bother to take orcs prisoner and rehabilitate them (barring a paladin I know with +50 Diplomacy and the Exalted Deeds redemption rules), you know? And as Belkar pointed out in his own way early in the strip, orcs are sentient beings too. So it's just the medieval way of doing things to execute transgressors. Yeah, killing clearly unrepentant murderers/bandits is definitely not chaotic or evil, especially considering the setting.
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Jan 31, 2007 23:06
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Ununnilium posted:Yes. I love how it's not just the bad guys who are doing stupid, emotionally-fueled things that will cause trouble down the line. Exactly. Roy attacking her isn't out of his alignment, it's just really stupid and rash.
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Feb 2, 2007 20:51
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Leikr Elferston posted:It's not stupid and it's not rash, she's gone rogue and putting her down is a very good idea. Even without her paladin powers she's still extremly powerful and could do a lot of damage if she isn't contained. it's kinda like if daredevil and moon-knight were talking to the mayor, and moon-knight punched the mayors head in for going soft on littering. What do you think DD is going to do, back off and hope for the best? I don't know, it seemed pretty obvious to me that it would be a good opportunity to end the conflict without further bloodshed and maybe even convince Miko not to be a crazy bitch all the time. If he attacked her and she got away (she's a loving monk of course she's going to get away) it would only make the situation worse, which is exactly what happened. What are the chances of Miko trying to redeem herself now that the good guys attacked her? It was just a bad move on Roy's part. There are times when diplomacy is preferable to force.
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Feb 3, 2007 02:39
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SuperKlaus posted:It sure doesn't bode well for what would happen if the kid fought V, but I guess we already knew who was weaker. Actually it bodes very well.
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Feb 3, 2007 06:10
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