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Motion to partially hyjack this thread to discuss Goblins, also! I'm now interested in finding out about Kore and what his deal is, although the logistics and pace of goblins is wayy at the other end of the webcominc scale. I still think it's pretty cool though. Plus while zogonia is on haiatus, it has some pretty funny lines although it's more of a gag strip. As for OOTs, I'm thinking that Shojo won't be rsurected, Rich has set up the recurection thing and a priest is on the way, so I think something is going to get in the way of that happening. I also agree with people's speculation about the linear guild, that would be way cooler than her siding with the lich. Generally i think OOTs goes through good and bad phases, when it gets bottom-heavy with subplots it tends to drag, but when he cleans them up it gets good again. Battlestar Ferrinus posted:Order of the Stick is probably my favorite currently-running webcomic and I even own the official board game. quote:I would be with you on this except that OotS has gone out of its way to show that paladins aren't assholes. Hinjo and the other members of the Sapphire Guard are good, reasonable people, and honestly Roy follows the Lawful Good alignment faithfully enough that he could easily be a paladin instead of a fighter without dramatically changing in character. quote:It's specifically Miko who's a violent and judgmental bitch. And we already know that she was pretty much told to leave her monastery and become a Paladin, so it's not like it was the ideal vocation for her to start with. quote:And if we assume for a moment that Miko is right in her estimation of the facts (Shojo and Roy are in league with Xykon and plan to violently take over Azure City via hobgoblin horde, and if Shojo is merely accused rather than dealt with he can easily twist the laws in his favor and escape), her actions were technically justified, though distressingly violent.
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Jan 29, 2007 20:25
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bgaesop posted:Happy Elf, I think the main reason that the jackass paladin is a cliche is because it fits in real life. Cops are the real world equivalent to paladins, and guess what the cliche is there? They're jackasses. Of course, many cops are not jackasses, and maybe they would be cool people if it weren't for their ridiculous code of honor/stupid laws, but still, it's what sticks in people's minds. These stereotypes don't fit the real world nearly as well as their proponents claim (worse, they often encourage the very behaviour they criticise, leading for isntance to the type of morons who think Gore would have done no batter than Bush after 9-11), but if people are going to make stuff up, they should be more creative, either way. Because I get sick of those cliches. Really loving bored with them. I'm tired of fantasy churches being secretly depraved, and governments who suck at everything, and Paladins as self-righteous tyrants. I'm tired of men going mad when they get magic and similar sledgehammer-takes on why girls are awesome. I'm sick of loving druids and tree-huggers and elves always knowing what's really going on, while all the stupid humans just don't have a loving clue. And save me from impossible-to-beat foes that can only be defeated through the judicious aplication of plot tokens. I'm not saying OOTS fits this negative trend, but a lot of other fantasy fiction does. quote:Of course, Paladins also have the whole holier-than-thou thing going on automatically since they actually, you know, are holier than most people. And there's nothing about humbleness or being a smug rear end in a top hat in the Paladin code. Or maybe there is in some versions, but not in the ones I've played with. Generally I don't think the idea of them as smug jugemental assholes really describes paladins at all, just a stereotype people have based on a minority of people playing them. In ideal terms they should at least have the option of being humble, and in rules terms, they have diplomacy as a class skill and a high CHA. quote:edit: The Paladin in Goblins is a nice guy Kore? Not so much. (assumng he qualifies as a paladin) Rincewind posted:fake fake edit: I like how the colors on Miko's clothes are reversed after she gets struck by the Gods.
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Jan 29, 2007 21:33
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bgaesop posted:
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Jan 30, 2007 02:58
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It adds 4 to their equivalent character level, yes. They need to be a level 11 spellcasting class to become a Lich, which coincidentally makes it perfectly legal for Rangers, Bards, and get this, Paladins to become Liches.
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Blackguards are often conflicted characters or characters who rationalise their actions. While i'm somewhat tired of the cliches that occur when hacks try to write moral ambiguity, the fact remains that blackguards and their ilk do not have to be "mua ha ha" style evil in order to function.
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Jan 31, 2007 06:27
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The book of exalted deeds is pretty old now, and it's hardly the last word on alignment issues. Either way, the alignment system in D&D isn't the bizzare dogmatic nightmare people make it out to be, it's just something wich it's popular to bitch about.
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Jan 31, 2007 15:28
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Black August posted:I have no idea why you're all so angrily arguing paladins and blackguards and jedi or whatever, I'm pretty sure the writer of the comic will do whatever he pleases to make it an interesting story and doesn't give two shits about D&D alignment system and how it should force everyone to act. Paladins are cops? The Hell?
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Jan 31, 2007 22:41
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tsob posted:I watched a load of season 4 of Babylon 5 today after I went home from work and was just wondering...in one episode (6 I think) Sheridan refers to the Vorlons and Shadows as "Giants in the Playground". Is this where the sites name originates, or is the saying more popular than I know in other parts of the world? I've just never heard it before, and it kinda jumped out at me. That is unless you're too busy posting on 4chan 
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Feb 2, 2007 03:33
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It's not stupid and it's not rash, she's gone rogue and putting her down is a very good idea. Even without her paladin powers she's still extremly powerful and could do a lot of damage if she isn't contained. it's kinda like if daredevil and moon-knight were talking to the mayor, and moon-knight punched the mayors head in for going soft on littering. What do you think DD is going to do, back off and hope for the best?
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Feb 2, 2007 22:13
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I'd say she has at least 5 levels on him. Or it's possible she just managed to snap off a disarm and an improved trip between panels.
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Feb 3, 2007 04:25
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Elan could actually help out in a siege quite a bit.SuperKlaus posted:Christ, I'm sorry to all you readers who don't do D&D, I don't mean to go all Trad Games here but talking about the game is fun for me.
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Feb 7, 2007 08:27
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HitTheTargets posted:Like a Revenant? I'm not good with DnD stuff, but the concept is probably the same as in WoW. It'd actually be pretty cool to set her up as a becoming a Blackguard, which I assume is an Earth-3 Paladin, and then have her die with the whole arc capped off by her sudden reappearance as a pissed off zombie/ghost thing.
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Feb 8, 2007 07:10
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The shade thing was really obviously a spartan refrence. In other news, goblins has gone to single page updates for a short while, wich I think is good, and erfworld continues to be a complete waste of time. I could almost stand it if it wasn't for the stupid cutsey poo poo, wich is only going to get more grating over time. That wierd creepy interlude in the dungon wasn't too good, either. clockworkjoe posted:We don't have enough info to point at a specific monster yet.
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Mar 15, 2007 01:53
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I think they're just two decoys and the liche, from the looks of it it's a skeleton, a skeletal warrior, and the lich himself hanging back with redcloak. I guess it's possible the wussy guy is the real deal, but the guy on horseback is acting a lot like a skeletal warrior, apart from all the talk-talk of course. A skeletal warrior is basically a mid-CR super-skeleton who fills a close combat role, and they're sometimes seen on 'horse'back, for isntance there's a classic illustration of the death knight Lord Soth from Dragonlance leading his skeletal knights on a charge. Gally posted:I find Goblins a fun enough read but god its a bit beating over the head with SHADES OF GREY KILLING MONSTERS WITH NO PURPOSE EVIL BAD BAD PCS NO THINK ABOUT ACTIONS. I get it alright!?!
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Mar 15, 2007 08:03
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Zereth posted:Seriously, they're superdeformed little computer game people who speak in things like "Erf" and "Dwagons", why are we supposed to give a poo poo about their politics? Vorxnyx posted:I mostly enjoy Erfworld too. It seems to me like most of the people in this thread who dislike it are mainly just angry about things it's not trying to be. I don't tghink the creators are trying for some kind of nega-cliche or anything of the sort. I just think they took a one-joke idea (nerd in the game), attached it to an obnoxiously wierd setting, and ran with it. Efreet saiid fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Mar 19, 2007 |
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Mar 19, 2007 02:01
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I don't know if that's a dracolihe or a zombie dragon. I must consult the Draconomicon! . . . Ok I consulted the Draconomicon and as I thought, a zombie dragon would be a bit weak (but can still fly, slowly), while a dracoliche at CR+3 is perhaps still a bit tough for a 13th level party to be fighting. I'm guessing it's just a zombie dragon he's using to fly around and look cool. I'd like to think a dracolich would have a bit more to say, even if he's deliberatly been going light on it's appearances. Efreet saiid fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 20, 2007 |
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Mar 20, 2007 19:13
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Zombie dragons fly, but not as fast as their base creature, I guess decay and slow movement plays a role in that.
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Mar 20, 2007 22:50
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clockworkjoe posted:Internally consistent to the 3.5 D&D rules, where good and evil are as physically real as gravity and momentum.
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Mar 22, 2007 04:26
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I think the idea of that bit in erfworld was that they're all going through the motions of this "Game" but there's also other stuff going on under the surface. The problem is that i've got no interest in what's going on on any level.
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Mar 26, 2007 02:03
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I've heard of them somewhere, I think they were in the MC. Anyway redcloak doens't really need all this plan poo poo if he's powerful enough to whip up a death knight then he may as well just conjure up an apache from some d20 modern sourcebook and strafe the walls with rockets. The delivery was good, but the power level is getting a bit ridiculous.
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Mar 27, 2007 10:43
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I'm not fixating on the rules, but the power these guys has makes a lot of the plot seem arbitary. For instance, who cares if they die? They can come back. Why can the lich blast his way through a dungeon full of angels and yet has to sneak a flanking manuver to take out a castle full of normal humans? What is that super-mega tough shadowy monster even for if they already vastly out-gun their enemies? I'd be saying the same things in a comc with a bunch of superhumans doing similarly inconsistant poo poo.
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Mar 27, 2007 19:17
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I really hope they actually end up rescuing her father at some point, i'd like to see this guy's take on an evil nation ruled by a tyrant, assuming there's not a fake-out going on.
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Mar 30, 2007 01:26
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I was thinking along the lines of red color scheme/horned helmets even without making that link, and their dad is/was LE according to the strip. And it would be cool to see how Nale gets along with his dad.
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Mar 30, 2007 13:09
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Don't worry, there'll be plenty of undead to go around.
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Mar 31, 2007 06:53
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There's an interview up with the author here- http://sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=467 One answer in particular supports what a lot of people have been saying on the thread about his composition: quote:ST: What design school did you go to? Did you enjoy it?
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Apr 1, 2007 12:00
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They're probably all Piro fans anyway.
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Apr 2, 2007 09:38
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Soylentbits posted:The only thing I never really understood about Roy's sword is why the weaponsmith thought it was a good idea to remove its undead smiting abilities. Did he just dislike the combination of magic and weapons? Was he mayhap insinuating a better time when weapons were just finely crafted pieces of metal and you had to walk fifteen miles in the snow to get to a decent anvil?
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Apr 3, 2007 10:20
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That's funny because predictions and speculation are a pet peeve of many GM's. I can remember in one game this friend of mine kept trying to guess the plot(ooc) and it drove me up the wall. That said, his statements in that thread make me wonder what kind of DM he was, because he's coming across as very much in the "frustrated writer" mode. In the interview I linked to he talked about adjusting the story to fit the players actions when he was DMing, but he still seems to have a bug up his rear end about suprises being 'ruined', not just for other people, but for him. I think his call of putting them in spoilers is a good move, but his reaction seems a bit harsh. OTOH speculation really can be the bane of a story, especially in bulk. You get a dozen people blabbing out psudo-fanfiction about how they think things will pan out, it's not suprising that a writer (or a reader)could see that and feel like it devalues the actual story. At the gaming table it can completly ruin a scene, even moreso than other sorts of OOC crosstalk. Fuego Fish posted:No, it was inferred that the slaad was a different entity. Especially since slaadi are toadmonster folk and the angel was an angel. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0068.html Along with a modron, their opposite number. Wich of course makes me want to see Belkar's Modron, who is probably in worse shape than his angel. Efreet saiid fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Apr 7, 2007 |
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Apr 7, 2007 12:31
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Wait, so Ferrinus likes the game, but Taear hates it? Now I feel like Belkar. Well, you both said it's long so i'll probably give it a miss.NutShellBill posted:I think Burlew thinks of himself more as a D & D dungeon master (hold your jokes, please) than a comic book artist. As such, he's probably used to improvising on the fly for when his players guess where he's going, and he's carrying it over here. Scaramouche posted:Another angle to consider is that because he's kind of adhering to the D&D ruleset is that his plot choices are limited, and those limitations are just as apparent to his audience as it is to him. Efreet saiid fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Apr 8, 2007 |
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Apr 8, 2007 07:44
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I guess so but that's part of the fun of it. It's also true with any secret or plot twist, writers try and lay hints or establish a context or do foreshadowing, but at the same time they don't want it to be too obvious or it ruins the suprise.
Efreet saiid fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Apr 8, 2007 |
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Apr 8, 2007 08:39
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You guys are bit too down on Burlew, in his initial post in that thread he comes across like a bit of a primadonna but remember that this is a guy who's trying to entertain and create and ongoing story, and his enthusiasm and personal process is a big part of what makes that work.Lurdiak posted:Hinging people's appreciation of your story on being able to "surprise" them is stupid and rather childish. Every story has been told. The important thing is how you tell it. This is a very basic thing every great author understands.
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Apr 8, 2007 17:30
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HitTheTargets posted:That would make him Neutral Evil though, right? clockworkjoe posted:It's interesting that this is Burlew's first experience with writing and how his hatred of fans predicting plot twists affects him so much. I think it's a lack of experience with dealing with an audience that causes this but it's the internet's instant feedback that has made this an issue in the first place. Lurdiak posted:Man, gently caress you. There isn't a drat theme that hasn't been explored yet, and lots of good authors agree on this. No one can think up an entirely 100% original never-been-done before concept. "exploring themes", I already mentioned that pointlessly vague and broad terminology does not proper your claims. quote:Please, show me an idea that's been done in the last 20 years that's never ever been conceived by anyone. For instance, there have been plenty of undead evil overlords in fantasy fiction, but I doubt you'll find a flippant ADD wierdo like Xykon amongst them. He's clearly derivitive, but that doesn't mean he isn't original. quote:EDIT: Actually, you're on my ignore list now, so don't bother. t
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Apr 9, 2007 13:53
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I will pay you to put me back on your ignore list (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 9, 2007 15:47
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Yeah, the whole arrow sequence was pretty funny, I don't know if he did that to mess with speculation or what, but either way it worked.
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Apr 9, 2007 16:09
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sakesniper posted:My real question about Belkar is why you would want someone who'd casually murder you in your party. There really isn't any question he's chaotic evil in my eyes. Why have someone who's such a huge liability on your team? Also a dual-wielding barbarian hafling is an interesting idea, i'm wondering if he uses weapon finesse. He doesn't seem that strong, although I admit the only similar character I can think of is the goblin complains-of-names. CapnAndy posted:I'm holding your dumb rear end to that. Lurdiak, post proof he's ignored again and let's start the Toxx clock. Anyway if he wants to put me back on ignore i'd be happy to buy him an avatar or plat, I just didn't think it would be constructive to have that kind of argument in this thread since he seems to think that trying to be creative in certain ways is 'immature'. I'm fine either way, or he can leave me off ignore and you can throw a tantrum and ban me anyway. Efreet saiid fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Apr 9, 2007 |
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Apr 9, 2007 21:29
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greatn posted:Don't rangers have to be good in alignment? He's obviously evil, but he should be good, based on the rules. Or is it only that they must START good in alignment? I can't imagine Belkar at any point eve having been good though. 
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Apr 9, 2007 21:47
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PM sent 
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Apr 9, 2007 21:56
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Lurdiak posted:Normally I wouldn't do this sort of thing but I know he'll be back if he gets banned, and I've been wanting an avatar for a long time now. Gassire posted:It gave sanctuary to the bitter old fat guy with a thick beard and did nothing but bitch about 3rd edition at the back of the comic/hobby store. I think each store by gamer law is required to have one. A lot of the problem with KOTD is just typical webcomic BS, the descent into 'drama', overly long plots that don't go anywhere interesting, ect. It was never that good to beging with, but it sure did get a lot worse. I was a bit concerned about OOTS going somewhere similar back when they had all the dating scenes and so on, it didn't get that bad but it was still great to see things get back on track.
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Apr 10, 2007 03:20
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Still, that is a great panel. It's a pretty funny idea, and it ties the whole strip back into the battle and changes the perspective when the rest of the panels are uniform. It works really well.
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Apr 12, 2007 12:25
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Yeah, i'm pretty sure CR still works by a forumla of +2 to CR for every doubling of numbers. Leaving aside all the dumb toad/anthill crap that was never really true, you'd still have to beat up something like 40 hobgoblins in one battle before you could get XP for them, assuming you're at around 10th level. I think the joke still works fine it's really no big deal and the CR system is retarded anyway and best used as a rule of thumb.
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Apr 14, 2007 13:05
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Rincewind posted:I think it really had to be that way for the Death Knight. He took himself way too seriously for a OOTS villain. All reaping and death and blood, and no wacky quips or pokéballs with horses in 'em or whatever.
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Apr 20, 2007 09:46
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