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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Linux Questions Thread: a bunch of pitfalls, but technically it's possible
 
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
Dunno if this is the right thread for this since my question is probably really base level compared to most, but:

I've been considering switching over to Linux-- mostly because I'm in the mood for something different, but also because while I was fine with Windows 10, as it approaches the end of its lifespan, I'm not really interested in 11 from what I've seen so far. I've been dabbling with different distros on VMs for a while and the one I keep coming back to is Arch as I like the feeling of being able to completely personalize my experience. That's been all well and good-- I'm still learning and I've been enjoying the experience of learning, but I've been having a lot of trouble with anything that's Wayland-based. KDE with Wayland mostly works, but it feels really clunky compared to the X11 version. I also want to learn how to use a tiling window manager like Hyprland or Sway or i3, but I can't get the former two to work properly at all in a VM, and I'm concerned that they're going to be a pain when I install for real since I've got a Nvidia GPU. It'd be a bummer if I couldn't use the former two because I've seen some really nice clean setups with fluid animations and I'm a sucker for that kind of thing.

Am I just better off staying away from Wayland until I get around to upgrading my computer so I can get an AMD GPU, or is it just the VM being weird and I'll be fine once I get the Nvidia drivers installed?

Also, I'm planning on dual-booting with Windows still just in case there's a game I want to play or program I need to use that's having compatibility issues with Linux-- I'd be able to access files from either OS so long as I just push saved images/documents/videos/steam installs to the same directory on a separate partition, right?

* # ¿ Dec 23, 2023 14:41
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# ¿ May 16, 2024 21:57
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
Hey! Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy with holiday/family stuff for the past two weeks so I haven't had time to sit and mess around with my PC and have only been online here and there.

For reference to things I'll be replying to below, my original post:

Framboise posted:

Dunno if this is the right thread for this since my question is probably really base level compared to most, but:

I've been considering switching over to Linux-- mostly because I'm in the mood for something different, but also because while I was fine with Windows 10, as it approaches the end of its lifespan, I'm not really interested in 11 from what I've seen so far. I've been dabbling with different distros on VMs for a while and the one I keep coming back to is Arch as I like the feeling of being able to completely personalize my experience. That's been all well and good-- I'm still learning and I've been enjoying the experience of learning, but I've been having a lot of trouble with anything that's Wayland-based. KDE with Wayland mostly works, but it feels really clunky compared to the X11 version. I also want to learn how to use a tiling window manager like Hyprland or Sway or i3, but I can't get the former two to work properly at all in a VM, and I'm concerned that they're going to be a pain when I install for real since I've got a Nvidia GPU. It'd be a bummer if I couldn't use the former two because I've seen some really nice clean setups with fluid animations and I'm a sucker for that kind of thing.

Am I just better off staying away from Wayland until I get around to upgrading my computer so I can get an AMD GPU, or is it just the VM being weird and I'll be fine once I get the Nvidia drivers installed?

Also, I'm planning on dual-booting with Windows still just in case there's a game I want to play or program I need to use that's having compatibility issues with Linux-- I'd be able to access files from either OS so long as I just push saved images/documents/videos/steam installs to the same directory on a separate partition, right?

VictualSquid posted:

Mounting windows partitions in linux works fairly well these days. And WSL should be able to mount a linux partition, though I never actually tried it. Having a third drive/partition does work, the same as using a removable drive.

Wayland is in a strange state where some things work much better then x11 and others work much less well. For kde specifically, the next version in january is supposed to add lots of features for wayland.

EndeavorOS is arch with a sane installer, and you might try it. They also have usable defaults and a tutorial for one of the tiling wms. Though it didn't click for me and I went back to kde. This was on my laptop which has an nvidia gpu.

So long as it works, I'm good. That way I can just redirect anything I save or want to access from either OS in one directory. Would that also work with Steam installs, or are those installed in completely different ways?

I'm content to stick with X11 for now; it's just that I don't really understand what distinguishes the two and why wayland is so fussy with nvidia. I just see a lot of neat desktop designs in tiling managers like Hyprland and Sway posted on reddit and twitter and stuff so I kinda had my eye on those as a "well, that must be what the cool kids are using! :shrug:" kinda thing.

I've heard of EndeavorOS and have been meaning to try it! I haven't really had much issue with Arch so far and feel like most issues I've had are less the OS or my lack of understanding moreso than it just is VM compatibility hiccups. But I could be wrong! (And probably am!) One thing I've realized as I've been exploring Linux that for every question I seek answers to, I generally find at least three different answers that give me more questions. It's hard to know what the gently caress you're doing as someone new as far as what "right answers" are.


cruft posted:

I'm going to suggest you physically disconnect that Windows disk so you can feel free to drink around with distributions and reinstall a lot, without having to worry about accidentally nuking the OS you're familiar with.

No I've never done that why would you assume such a thing

Shouldn't be an issue then really. I currently have Windows 10 installed on my old SSD, but the new SSD I just bought will only work on my PC's board if I disconnect the other one (I basically get the SATA SSD I've been using for the past 8 years or so, or the NVMe one I just bought, and it won't work if I've got both hooked up), so all I'd need to do is reconnect the old drive if I really gently caress something up, but I'm also not really all that scared of working with partitions and installing things anymore after doing a manual Arch install. The only thing I'm afraid of is losing all my files, and I can back all that stuff up.

mystes posted:

The proprietary nvidia drivers suck with wayland and sway won't work with them at all. I'm not sure what the state of the open source drivers is. I would suggest sticking with x11 and i3 for now unless you want to switch to an amd gpu

Is your computer a desktop and does it have integrated graphics as well? it's kind of a pita so I'm not sure I should suggest it but you could do gpu passthrough and use the integrated graphics for linux

It's a desktop, yeah. I've had it since 2016 and it's served me well, but I am looking to upgrade it this year.

Currently running NVIDIA GeForce 980Ti, 16 GB of RAM, Intel i7-4790K CPU.

Not really sure what integrated graphics means or how I'd know if I do, or what gpu passthrough is, though I've read something about just using Windows on a VM in Linux using gpu passthrough rather than dual booting or something like that, which sounds nice too.

Mr. Crow posted:

Wayland and nvidia arent there yet by all reports and sounds like your just confirming it. Maybe try it with the next big KDE release but I'm guessing you'll need to wait on the open source nvidia driver (NVK i think?) or some update by nvidia themselves.

You can share Windows partitions on Linux pretty easily ya, but be aware it may not be as seamless as you hope, due to things like different line endings. Theres utils like dos2unix/unix2dos to easily and quickly change text files but if you plan on doing it back and forth repeatedly its not gonna be a streamlined experience.

All I really want to do is exclusively have a partition specifically for images/documents/videos/music/Steam stuff, etc. I'd hope most of that is generally friendly between both systems.

ziasquinn posted:

yeah if you have Nvidia just use the proprietary drivers tbh and stick to X11 for now at least.

Can do. I do intend to get an AMD GPU when I get around to upgrading so I won't have to worry about that anymore.

feedmegin posted:

Windows cannot see Linux partitions (ext4 eg) natively so be aware of that. You'd want to have a Windows (NTFS) partition you mount from Linux not the other way around.

The CR/LF thing with plain text files is a thing but generally if Windows sees a Unix-style (LF only) text file you created on the Linux side it won't gently caress around with it these days. Binary files such as jpegs or whatever shouldn't be an issue.

Also if you haven't tried WSL2 on Windows, give it a go. It's basically real Linux running in a tightly integrated Windows VM and ngl it's pretty good these days.

I've played with WSL a little bit before I just started exploring Linux more in VMs. I'll play around with it a bit more.

And good to know, yeah. Hopefully if what I heard about just using Windows in a VM with gpu passthrough or whatever, I won't need to rig up something that both systems play nice with and can just keep everything in my home partition, yeah?

* # ¿ Jan 8, 2024 06:22
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

mawarannahr posted:

Linux bits you're workshopping: guy who

code:
mkdir -p /C\:\\/Windows\\ && ln /usr/bin "$_"
mkdir /C\:\\/Windows\\/system32 && ln /usr/sbin "$_" 
mkdir /C\:\\/Program \Files\\ && ln /usr/local/bin "$_"
echo 'export PATH="/C\:\\/Program \Files\\:/C\:\\/Windows\\:/C\:\\/Windows\\/system32"" >> /etc/environment
unlink /bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/local/bin
reboot
:hehe:

Jokes aside that's kinda useful for a newer Linux user like me to understand Linux file systems a bit as they compare to Windows file systems.

* # ¿ Jan 15, 2024 15:35
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

mawarannahr posted:

this is a very loose mapping for a joke. This describes the basic hierarchy: https://man.archlinux.org/man/hier.7.en

More details here:
https://man.archlinux.org/man/file-hierarchy.7

Right, I've read up on it a bit-- I'm just saying it's nice to be able to see the relations/comparisons between Windows and Linux file structures.

* # ¿ Jan 15, 2024 18:08
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
Okay. Lots of stuff to respond to again as I'm preparing to poke around more at this:

Computer viking posted:

This typically means that your SATA SSD is connected to a port that's shared with the M.2 slot: The M.2 connector can supply both PCIe (for NVME drives) and SATA, and I've seen several motherboards where a couple of the SATA ports are badly documented or just marked on the board as "only works when M.2_1 is not in use" or similar. There's typically a handful of SATA ports that do not have this issue.

So, full disclosure, I didn't build my computer and was more an observer-- nor did I pick out the parts at the time. I told my friend my budget and he picked out stuff he felt was best for that. So I'm not all that knowledgeable about hardware and even when we built the computer, a lot of the things he explained at the time went over my head. That same friend was gonna come visit recently and help me out with this stuff while he was here, but other issues have delayed that until late next month or March, and I'm itching to get this ball rolling already, so! I feel like I'm not really going to learn much unless I just start bashing my head against things myself as it is.

For what it's worth, my motherboard is ASRock Fatality Z97X Killer series. Looking through the manual, it says that there are 6 SATA connectors: SATA3_0 to SATA3_5, and that 4 and 5 connectors are shared with the SATAE_1 connector for SATA Express, which is also shared with the M.2_SSD socket. Would I just need to connect my current SATA drive to one of those other connectors, and then the M.2 drive should work freely from there without a "one or the other" kind of issue?

And if that does work, would I simply be able to boot Windows from the SATA drive and Linux from the M.2 drive freely, so long as they do not intersect, by switching their boot priorities in the BIOS?

At this point I feel mostly comfortable just diving in to Linux without the need to use Windows for any particular reason, but having the option is still nice.

Computer viking posted:

"Integrated graphics" means there's a small graphics card directly inside your CPU. It's how most laptops work, and they're also fairly common on desktop CPUs that could end up in an office PC - it saves the manufacturer from having to add a whole GPU just to render some spreadsheets. If you have an HDMI (or DisplayPort) connector on your motherboard, it's for this. Your i7 4790K comes with "Intel® HD Graphics 4600".

GPU forwarding needs a bit of background.
I don't know if you've ever used a SNES emulator or anything like that? Virtual machines are the same kind of idea. You run a program that pretends to be a completely separate computer.

The biggest difference between this and a SNES emulator is that your "real" machine and the VM are basically the same. That means that instead of needing to run a lot of code to simulate e.g. a SNES, you can just fence off a bit of your CPU and run the VM directly, which is incredibly much faster; there's nearly zero overhead. The problems come when you want to use any other devices. Storage is easy enough, just inject a fake device into the VM that looks like a hard drive, and on the outside we can redirect it to whatever we want, like a file or an actual disk. Graphics is harder, because it's much more demanding. A graphics card isn't meant to be driven by two operating systems at the same time: If both Linux and Windows tried to use it simultaneously, it would instantly mess up for both of them. To keep this from happening, you're just not allowed to give a VM control of a card that's already in use.

There's three ways around this:
- You can create a fake graphics card in the VM, like we do with storage. That works, but it's not fast enough for gaming - it's comparable to windows remote desktop.
- You can buy one of the stupid expensive server cards that actually support being driven by multiple OSes (by pretending to be multiple cards) - though I don't even know if those support graphical output or if they're only for accelerating AI things
- You can put two graphics cards in your PC: One for Linux and one for the virtual machine. On the linux side, you set it up so it reserves the second GPU and doesn't touch it, and then you let the Windows virtual machine get full control over that card. This is GPU forwarding - Linux just passes one GPU on to the virtual machine.

In your case, you actually have two GPUs: The integrated intel graphics, and the nVidia 980. You probably need to find a BIOS setting for "activate the integrated GPU even if I have a separate GPU plugged in", though.

Neat! That's something I'll need to figure out once I get settled in with whatever Linux install I end up picking. GPU passthrough seems like the ideal option for any sort of Windows application I may still need after switching over (eventually, I plan on wiping Windows from the SATA drive and repurposing it, but for now, I'll keep it as it is since I feel like I'm inevitably going to break something with Linux and will want something to fall back on as I figure out how to fix it).

Klyith posted:

X11 and Wayland are doing the same thing: they're protocols rather than software, setting up how an app communicates with the OS display software. X11 is ancient and has many problems due how old and decrepit it is. Wayland is new and has many problems due to being new and unfinished.

Nvidia is fussy with Wayland because Nvidia doesn't give a poo poo about linux, particularly not consumer desktop linux. (CUDA and non-display server stuff works fine.) They waited until Wayland was actually being widely used before they got serious about support.

What the cool kids post in "check out my new desktop" on reddit isn't what most people are using. Most people use gnome or KDE. The cool kids are the people who get entertainment from setting up the new FOTM desktop environment. Not that there's anything wrong with that, or the DE that's the current new hotness. If a tiling WM works well for you, go with it.

Noted. I'll just have to test how X11 and Wayland both function running on my actual hardware as opposed to a VM (which isn't really ideal for either it seems, either that or I'm doing something wrong because the dumb thing keeps crashing lately when it didn't used to even if I'm not doing anything different). I've been hearing that NVIDIA open source drivers are getting better, so I'll just need to experiment, which leads into a question I'll be asking farther down. **

Klyith posted:

Linux definitely has a lot of three correct answers going on, and in most cases the correct choice is "go with your distro's default unless you have a strong reason otherwise". That's a lot of what a distro does -- pick from among sets (A,B,C) and (X,Y,Z) in ways that avoid problems between B and Y. This is one of the reasons arch isn't recommended for newbies, it has fewer defaults and makes you pick for yourself. And if B and Y have problems together, well that's on the wiki, you read the wiki first didn't you?

The integrated graphics is on your CPU, it's what comes out the video port (probably DVI at that vintage) on your mobo. It's good enough for desktop 2d stuff.

I was also intrigued by windows on a VM in linux with hardware passthrough. Then I discovered all my games work fine in linux. Since games were the only thing I needed that for, I never bothered getting a 2nd GPU and setting it up. A windows VM using spice video is good enough for non-game software.

Only fat32 and exfat are totally friendly between both systems. Fat isn't great.

Linux can see NTFS fine but running steam games off in linux a NTFS partition is not recommended.

Also, having a single partition that is writable by two OSes at the same time (ie the linux host and a windows VM) is very very bad. Only a matter of time until your data is corrupted bad. The two OSes will make changes that the other doesn't see, so will be working from incorrect state.

So tldr it's kinda hard to have two co-equal OSes even with the VM method. If you are frustrated with Windows or MS, I would say just go whole hog and try to move over. If you're into linux as a fun project or to learn, do a dual-boot and keep windows as the main OS.

Also noted. I will completely pass on the idea of trying to share a partition or drive with Windows. Someone past this post mentioned setting up a NAS and that does seem like the logical endpoint for a lot of what I want to do with my stuff-- not just in holding files between Windows and Linux, but also for my other devices in the house, and also holding all my ROMS for my MiSTer, which I've heard works pretty well.

That being said, ideally, I think "whole hog" is my choice here, with VM just as an "as needed, if at all" sort of thing.



So as I prepare to dive into this myself, a few other questions.

1. Coming back to what I said I was saying earlier, since I'm not sure how my computer will react to driver issues, I feel like I'm inevitably going to break something, and that's okay because breaking stuff is how I learn. I'm ready for that. That being said, what happens if something doesn't work? Do I just install a different DE/WM that will work and just uninstall the one(s) that don't? It'd just be a matter of doing pacman -Rs [insert de/wm here] to get rid of whatever leftover dependencies that would be left behind from uninstalling, right? (Or even if it does work and I just don't like it.)

2. From my tinkering with Arch, the install guide suggests formatting a partition specifically to have a boot partition. If I end up breaking something that badly, all I would really need to do in this instance is format that partition and reinstall from there, right? Everything on the other partitions (in other words, where I'd be keeping all my files) would be unaffected, right? Also for the sake of switching distros if I want to use something else, I guess. I think I'm going to start by using EndeavourOS as mentioned further upthread as a more friendly intro to Arch, but if I'm not feeling it, having the ability to switch over without losing everything would be nice.

3. When I do get around to upgrading my PC this year, it'll likely involve getting a new motherboard/CPU/GPU at the very least. When I do so, is that going to break anything I've already installed? Or will installing the correct drivers for whatever I'm using fix the issue ahead of time?

Framboise fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jan 22, 2024

* # ¿ Jan 22, 2024 23:00
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

Yes, that seems like sata 0-3 should work at the same time as a nvme drive.

The Z97 is from the dawn age of nvme. Most boards could not boot from nvme until they got bios updates a while later. So if you've never updated bios, you might need to do that before you can boot the new drive.

(Also as a note your mobo only has gen2x2 lanes for the nvme drive, so it will be quite restricted in speed. Faster than sata... but not by a lot.)

Your linux install should set up grub and automatically pick up the windows install on the other drive. So you won't even need to go into the bios, it will boot to a screen allowing you to pick linux or windows.

Linux drivers are far more integrated than in windows. Switching between open source and proprietary nvidia is the only thing like this you might need to deal with.

Move the drive to the new PC, boot it. Generally this Just Works (as long as you are using a recent kernel with support for whatever new hardware in on the new PC, which won't be a problem running arch). If there are problems you'll at least get a text console, and can rebuild the kernel image or whatever.

I'm pretty sure EndeavourOS does the root as btrfs and sets up snapshots by default. I know Manjaro does that.

Looks like my board updated for more M.2 compatibility and nVME support back in 2017, and it doesn't seem like I've updated the BIOS on this like, ever. Currently formatting an SD card so I can update the bios but for some reason, converting this thing to FAT32 as it needs me to is taking an eternity. It's been nearly 2 hours and it's only at 25% complete.

Good to know that Linux Just Works with things, I was really getting concerned that I was going to mess things up by pulling the trigger now on converting before upgrading my PC.

Once I'm able to update the BIOS, I should be able to start moving forward tomorrow. I know my friend wanted to help me with this (most likely because he knows how clueless I am when it comes to hardware), but maybe he can help me plan my PC upgrade instead lol

* # ¿ Jan 23, 2024 05:43
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
I spent last evening cleaning out an old laptop (bit of sad nostalgia there) so I can do a trial run of EndeavourOS before I do it to my PC. It worked really well once I figured out how to disable Secure Boot. I even managed to get Hyprland running on it, surprisingly well considering my laptop's got NVIDIA GPU and is going on like 13-14 years old.

One problem though, despite picking "erase disk" when installing, it looks like Windows is not only still installed, but the bulk of my hard drive is still partitioned to that. How do I go about wiping all of that and merging it with the partition I've got Linux on? I tried running cfdisk but it didn't even acknowledge any of that stuff. I think I'm able to mount those partitions from my file manager but I hesitate to do so in case something gets borked.

It also seems like there's... I'm not sure if it's a separate drive or another partition, but there's also a small drive for the Lenovo recovery key. Do I still need that?

* # ¿ Jan 24, 2024 01:18
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Saukkis posted:

Post the output from command 'lsblk', it will give better idea what the situation is.

Sure.

code:
framboise@anemone ~> lsblk
NAME   MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINTS
sda      8:0    0  22.4G  0 disk
sda1   8:1    0  1000M  0 part /efi
sda2   8:2    0  13.3G  0 part /var/log
                                /var/cache
                                /home
                                /
sda3   8:3    0   8.1G  0 part [SWAP]
sdb      8:16   0 465.8G  0 disk
sdb1   8:17   0  1000M  0 part
sdb2   8:18   0   260M  0 part
sdb3   8:19   0  1000M  0 part
sdb4   8:20   0   128M  0 part
sdb5   8:21   0 417.6G  0 part
sdb6   8:22   0   450M  0 part
sdb7   8:23   0   350M  0 part
sdb8   8:24   0    25G  0 part
sdb9   8:25   0    20G  0 part
Pardon the formatting, Copying and pasting gave a whole bunch of &#numbers nonsense I had to clear out.

I'm not really sure what happened. I don't know where all those little partitions came from or why they're labeled sdb instead of sda.

* # ¿ Jan 24, 2024 06:24
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
I don't think there are 2 disks in this laptop though? As far as I'm aware, this thing's got a 512GB disk in it. No USB drives or SD cards in use.

The 417GB partition you see is my C: drive on Windows, and the 25GB one there is the Lenovo recovery key thing on D:. I genuinely have no idea what the others are or why they're there.

* # ¿ Jan 24, 2024 07:08
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Framboise posted:

Looks like my board updated for more M.2 compatibility and nVME support back in 2017, and it doesn't seem like I've updated the BIOS on this like, ever. Currently formatting an SD card so I can update the bios but for some reason, converting this thing to FAT32 as it needs me to is taking an eternity. It's been nearly 2 hours and it's only at 25% complete.

I know this is starting to stray a bit from Linux questions, but no matter what I try, I can't get the BIOS updated on my motherboard so I can install the M.2 drive. No matter how I format it, it says there's no image to flash from. I've tried Internet Flashing but it doesn't seem to want to connect despite my computer having no issue connecting to the internet-- it's a wired connection.

I've reformatted it a whole bunch of different ways, put the bios file in a small partition of the 8GB SD rather than the whole thing, tried FAT and FAT32, and I just keep hitting dead ends. :|


Klyith posted:

The 25gb and 20gb partitions on the end, yeah. One is probably an OEM recovery partition, the other is ????

But the sequence of sdb1-7 I'm pretty sure is a nest of two or more windows reinstalls:
code:
sdb1   8:17   0  1000M  0 part  <- old efi boot
sdb2   8:18   0   260M  0 part  <- old windows 7 recovery
sdb3   8:19   0  1000M  0 part  <- current efi boot
sdb4   8:20   0   128M  0 part  <- MSR partition
sdb5   8:21   0 417.6G  0 part  <- actual windows OS
sdb6   8:22   0   450M  0 part  <- current windows 10 recovery
sdb7   8:23   0   350M  0 part  <- old windows 10 recovery
That's what you get if you do a format and reinstall but don't know about diskpart clean. So you just delete the existing C: windows partition and install windows into that space complete with new boot and recovery partitions, leaving the useless old ones around the outside like parenthesis.


But yeah there's definitely other weird stuff going on -- the mystery 25GB partition being similar in size to the 22.5GB sda makes me wonder if sda is really just a partition that the firmware is playing games with.

So maybe the attached file can shed some light! I'm on the still-existing Windows 10 install on this laptop right now and I found this in Disk Management:


I'm not really sure where EndeavourOS is installed right now, but I'm gonna assume it's on Disk 0 somewhere (seems to match up with sda?), and the Lenovo recovery thing is the D: partition. But, if that's the case, why does the second drive even exist at all?

Either way, something's broken with my EOS install. Tried running a system update and something must have gone wrong, because the update kept looping until I killed the process. Then when I rebooted, no matter which kernel I try to use, it doesn't get past the file system check and just hangs. I've tried to install fresh but for some reason the installer says it's "waiting on 1 module" forever.

Computers are fun! :unsmith:
(help pls)

Framboise fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jan 29, 2024

* # ¿ Jan 28, 2024 23:57
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

So are you not seeing the SD card drive in the BIOS at all, or just not able to see the specific image file?

#1) I would use a plain USB flash stick if at all possible. The BIOS probably needs basic USB mass storage device and it could be that whatever card reader you are using isn't doing that. And yeah formatting a smaller partition with FAT or FAT32 is the most compatible way to go. (More recent boards can do exFAT, or even NTFS sometimes.)

#2) Check again that you have your exact model of your mobo right. Like, X or not-X?
https://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/fatal1ty z97x killer/
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty%20Z97%20Killer3.1/

The BIOS will have checks to make sure you don't load the wrong firmware, so if you got the wrong one it just wouldn't show up.

(Also you've extracted the file from the zip right?)

Oh.

I am dumb.

Yeah I was using the wrong BIOS update. I have a Z97X, not Z97. I put that on my USB stick with a small partition and it worked with no issues. I'll see if I can't get the M.2 drive installed today and have the SATA drive I'm currently using just shipped over to a different connector, so I should be able to use both.

Thanks for that, I spent an embarrassing amount of time trying to get that figured out yesterday. (Like, all afternoon.)


Klyith posted:

Huh, well, that is... a really nice mix of Windows and OEM perversity there. I would guess that only the 450MB recovery partition is actually in use, and the others are leftover from Windows 7 or whatever the laptop originally came with.

You could probably remove both the 25GB D: and the 20GB recovery and use that space to install linux.

Yeah, those 3 partitions on Disk 0 are your boot, / , and swap partitions.

What model of laptop is this exactly?

Without knowing what the heck that Disk 0 / sda actually is, it's very hard to say. It might be a problem because that drive isn't a real thing, just a section of the other drive that's faked for whack OEM reasons. Or it might be that a 13 GB partition is too small and it ran out of space while processing the update. (A somewhat stupid thing about Arch is that pacman's kernel update process is to remove the old one before installing the new one. Which can leave you hosed in situations where it doesn't complete.)

Answers somewhat out of order:

I'm using a Lenovo U410 Ideapad (closest link I could find to my particular model as the one I kept finding when I was searching was one with different specs).

The pacman issue sounds likely. I already had some stuff installed (plus an extra WM I was playing around with when I wasn't using GNOME) so if that's the case it's not surprising it freaked out on me.

Honestly I haven't got an issue with wiping the entire laptop clean and having it be my guinea pig. I haven't touched this laptop more than a couple times since 2016 when I got my desktop (and I've got a Surface Pro 4 that I use as my occasional travel computer since it's small and lightweight), so it's nice for it to have a purpose again. I suppose it might be nice to retain the recovery partition if I need it, but if I don't, I'm fine with it being a dedicated Linux device. It's more a matter of figuring out how to do that.

I assume the answer is to just take the nuclear option and format both drives completely then do a clean reinstall?


Saukkis posted:

You could try a bunch of other commands to gather more information.

code:
sudo lshw -class disk
sudo blkid
sudo gdisk -l /dev/sda
sudo gdisk -l /dev/sdb

Would if I could, but I can't even get to the terminal to do anything.

* # ¿ Jan 29, 2024 19:59
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

Yeah if you don't care about the old Windows on it, that's what I'd do. Book the live linux USB installer and just blam a new partition table on both drives with gparted / KDE partitionmanager.


I'm not sure how best to use that EMMC drive. Linux is much less amenable to doing things like "install some of your programs on drive D to make them faster". Like, you could do that with links, but it's a PITA.

Using part of that sda for /boot isn't a bad idea, it'll make the laptop boot faster at least.

All right! I've completely obliterated both sda and sdb. I'm trying to figure out how to set up the partitions now in the EndeavourOS installer.

I'm assuming I want the boot and swap partitions on sda, so, modeling it on the example it shows if I were to go with defaults, it marks 1000MiB as "EFI system" with FAT32 file system and 8.11 as swap.

So, my guess on how to do this is...
sda (SSD):
1000 MiB FAT32 mounted at /efi, flagged as boot
8305 MiB (roughly 8.11GB?) with linuxswap, flagged as swap
rest of drive allocated as ext4, or should I just leave it as free space?

sdb (HDD):
I assume I want everything else here? What should I be setting this up as to install here?

* # ¿ Jan 30, 2024 05:45
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

Have this mounted at /boot instead to put the kernels into this space. (/efi is just the GRUB bootloader, which is tiny)

✔️

just leave it free it's not really worth loving with

Filesystem btrfs, mount point /, flag root

You don't need to make a separate /home partition as Volguus suggested -- Endeavour makes a @home subvolume in btrfs which accomplishes the same goals.


(When you do this on your main desktop PC on your new nvme drive, you might want to have an dedicated ext4 partition for game installs if you do games. btrfs is cool for doing snapshots and rollbacks but you don't need that for games, and constantly getting game updates from steam will just clutter up a Copy on Write filesystem. Also if you do VMs at all, they don't like btrfs. This is mildly nitpicky but that's what I've done.)

Oh, whoops re: not needing a separate home partition. Well, I was in the process of installing when you had posted this so I didn't see it. This is what I ended up with:


Is there any way to change that now that it's already installed, or is it not necessary? Everything on sdb is btrfs btw.

I didn't have time to mess around with my PC last night, so I'll try to do so tomorrow when I have more time.


Right now I'm trying out GNOME but I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the way it controls yet or not. I know it's probably a matter of unlearning 30+ years of Windows use but some things just feel weird. Can't minimize stuff, isn't easy to see what's currently running and what isn't, the app drawer is a disorganized mess (though I can fix that myself obv). Maybe I just don't get it yet. I was using KDE most when I was messing around on VMs on my PC and that felt pretty natural for me.

* # ¿ Jan 30, 2024 18:01
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Pablo Bluth posted:

Apparently Sudo has a logo. I won't ruin the surprise...

https://www.sudo.ws/about/logo/

Oh, I get it.





Klyith posted:

I would not bother, this is your gently caress around and find out install. Now you know for next time when it counts. What you have is totally functional.

The main difference between 2 partitions for / and /home versus subvolumes of a single btrfs partition is that you don't have to care about how much space to give each of them. I think you will still be able to have pacman make automatic rollback snapshots of /.


Volguus posted:

Having multiple partitions means that you're free to format each with whatever filesystem you want. Going btrfs with subvolumes means that you have to stay with btrfs (until you nuke and reformat everything). As I said before, there's no right or wrong answer. Like Tad Naff said: you will want to change things in the future, so really, it doesn't matter.

Seems like I'll just need to mess around with it until I get something I prefer. Perhaps I should format the M.2 drive as 1-1.5 TB ext4 for game installs and 0.5-1 TB btrfs for everything else?

The laptop'll be fine for what it is, which is a guinea pig and not much else.

keep punching joe posted:

The Pop Cosmic shell extension is also really good if you want Gnome to act like a twm but can't be bothered learning how to configure one. It's ludicrously simple to use.

I'll check it out! I really like the level of customization you can do with tiling window managers but from what I've experienced with them so far it's a hell of a project to take on compared to the ready-to-go nature of DEs. I wanna do a TWM sometime but maybe once I'm more acclimated.



On another note!

Klyith posted:

Yes, that seems like sata 0-3 should work at the same time as a nvme drive.

The Z97 is from the dawn age of nvme. Most boards could not boot from nvme until they got bios updates a while later. So if you've never updated bios, you might need to do that before you can boot the new drive.

(Also as a note your mobo only has gen2x2 lanes for the nvme drive, so it will be quite restricted in speed. Faster than sata... but not by a lot.)

Turns out the SATA drive was in the one of the connectors that's shared with the SATA express the M.2 drive uses. All I had to do was swap it over to a different connector and put the M.2 drive in.



Says I need to initialize it though. I'm assuming it should be GPT since it's 2TB?

Framboise fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Feb 1, 2024

* # ¿ Feb 1, 2024 16:58
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

That sounds great, size subject to whatever your personal storage needs are.

I'd probably do the same if I had fewer drives and less of a mental rut about my needlessly complex 15+ year old partitioning scheme.

Yep, GPT everything these days unless you specifically need old DOS partitioning for compatibility. GPT is required to support UEFI boot.

(If you initialize in Windows there will be a mystery 16MB Microsoft partition on the drive when you go to install linux on it. You can delete that, MS adds them to support a specific windows-only thing and Disk Manager hides their very existence.)

All right, GPT it is. Hopefully next time I post in here it'll be on a fresh Linux install.

And yeah, once I upgrade my motherboard and such I'll probably pick up another drive and partitioning like that won't even be necessary.

* # ¿ Feb 2, 2024 00:42
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
All right, I'm in.

I think I might've hosed something up though (not a big deal, I'm not scared of wiping anything and starting fresh since it was such a painless process).

First, grub didn't pick up on my Windows 10 install at all, so I need to boot into it from the BIOS menu instead. Not sure what I did wrong. Should I have installed systemd-boot instead?

Also, I wasn't sure where to mount the partition I was gonna use for steam installs and stuff so I ended up picking /home. Should I have put it as / instead? (Is that something I can do without reinstalling, if so?)

Here's how I've got things laid out either way:


sda is my HDD where I've got the bulk of everything I have on Windows-- Steam installs, pictures, music, videos etc. It's all here.
sdb is the SATA SSD where I've got Windows installed (along with program files, etc).
nvme0n1 is the M.2 SSD where I just installed EndeavourOS.
Not sure what sr0 is.

* # ¿ Feb 2, 2024 01:44
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Computer viking posted:

Looks like sr0 is a cd/dvd drive, real or emulated. If you don't have a real one, I suspect some sort of emulated "here are your OEM drivers" thing from the bios?

Give it a taste test with "file -s sr0" and see if there's anything there, maybe?

Ah yeah, that'd be the PC's CD/DVD drive.


Klyith posted:

Oh dang, I bet I know what's up here: your Windows install is an old-school legacy / dos boot, not UEFI. If grub is booting in uefi mode it won't grab non-uefi OSes.

You can convert the Windows install to GPT & UEFI booting... or just leave it and use the BIOS menu.

Er no, putting that 2nd partition as /home means your whole user profile will live there, rather than being on a subvolume of the 1st brtfs partition. (This is not wrong per se -- that's the setup that Volguus advocated. The only thing that's bad about this is you don't need 500 GB for the main partition if your home is elsewhere.)

Putting that partition as / would mean that the entire OS lives there. / is the root of the OS, think of that as "C:" in windows.

You don't want that to be anything in the dropdown list -- those are all pre-defined system paths. (If / is C:, /home is C:\Users and /usr and /opt are C:\Program Files)


Instead you can type a mount point into the box, for example /mnt/games or /home/games. Mount points are fairly arbitrary. /mnt is the customary place to put mounts, but I really like putting them in /home since the GUI file managers & pickers make /home easy to get to. (But this means you really don't want to make a user called "games", as their user folder would stomp on your game drive.)

Kinda like this (but bigger than 10GB):




Uhhh, I'm not really sure how to properly fix that? Where you are now it might be easier to redo the install.

Ah, whoops. I reinstalled and mounted as /home/games for simplicity's sake. And yeah, I'll mess with changing Windows over to GPT once I get settled in over here on Linux. For now it's not a big deal so long as I can still access it.

Time to actually start learning this stuff now, like why won't my computer wake up after I use suspend, and how to configure the terminal to change how it looks when I'm not seeing the option to do so in GNOME.

EDIT: and why Steam won't let me install games into the partition I specifically made for that purpose.

Framboise fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Feb 2, 2024

* # ¿ Feb 2, 2024 05:06
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

You need to fix permissions on /home/games so that you own it. It would default to being owned by root.

Linux is like Windows in that every file & directory has ownership & permissions. Most of the time the only thing a standard user can write to is your /home/username folder, so you have to elevate using sudo to mess with anything else. Unlike Windows it has had this system since the very beginning (and Unix had it before Linux existed), so managing this is one of the basics to learn.

Hmm. I think I did it.

I used "sudo chown framboise games" and I can install stuff to that partition now. Not sure if that means everything is good from here but it worked!

* # ¿ Feb 2, 2024 16:24
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
I'm not really sure what to do. Any time I try to suspend/sleep my PC, it won't wake up when I try to do so. Like the screen will turn back on, but it'll remain black, and the computer itself will wake up (I can hear the fans etc), but I'm not able to do anything.

Since I generally just let my computer sleep whenever I'm not in it (even on Windows, my general routine when I get up is to hit Win+X,U,S to put it to sleep), it's kind of a problem, especially if it goes to sleep automatically if I'm away.

* # ¿ Feb 12, 2024 00:25
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

spiritual bypass posted:

What sort of graphics do you use? Does it run any servers you could connect to over the LAN to see if it's really not online?

I'm on nvidia for now and for the near future-- if it continues to be a problem I'll get an AMD gpu and just not look back. And not sure, don't think so to your second question.

Bark! A Vagrant posted:

I'm having the same issue with gnome + wayland + Nvidia GPU. I haven't gotten around to trying these fixes, but I have a few links saved:

Nvidia doc mentions an upstream kernel issue that might be related, and suggests "In the interim, the default suspend mode on the affected systems should be set to "deep" using the kernel command line parameter "mem_sleep_default" mem_sleep_default=deep

This post on the arch forums says that enabling the 'preserve all video memory allocations' option plus enabling nvidia-suspend and nvidia-hibernate in modprobe fixed the issue for them.

Link to said post which also includes how to modify the suspend and resume services to fix it

e: tried the first two of the three fixes and it doesn't resume to a black screen anymore, but none of the inputs work and the system appears to be frozen... progress?

Tried the first two to no success.


Honestly if this is a GNOME-specific issue I haven't really any qualms with just killing it entirely and going with KDE instead. Still not 100% sold on GNOME's layout anyway.

...it is a GNOME-specific issue, right?

* # ¿ Feb 12, 2024 23:15
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
Reaching my wit's end with this suspend issue. I get that it's most likely because of my GPU but I've tried everything to the extent of my understanding at the moment. I even started a fresh install of EndeavourOS with KDE instead of GNOME to see if it made a difference. It doesn't, but I do like it more as a DE I guess so there's that.

I've tried working with information from this link here https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/510.47.03/README/powermanagement.html, and "Video Memory Self Refresh is "Not Supported". Does that mean I'm 100% screwed here until I update my GPU?

I've tried blacklisting nvidiafb as suggested here https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management/Suspend_and_hibernate

I've tried adding "mem_sleep_default=deep" to /etc/default/grub according to this https://devnull.land/laptop-s2idle-to-deep and got nothing there, too.

It's silly that this is really the one struggle I'm having (outside of having trouble converting Windows 10 to GPT so I can boot to it from grub) and I'm enjoying everything else, but it's hard to get settled in when I can't use a very basic function.

edit:
fwiw I'm using the lts kernel on EndeavourOS, Nvidia GeForce GTX980 Ti GPU.

* # ¿ Feb 19, 2024 21:26
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
Seems to behave the same regardless of whether I'm using X11 or Wayland.

To be precise, what is happening is that the PC will go to sleep almost instantly after I give the command-- and it is indeed in a low-power state as my PC's power light begins blinking rather than shutting it off.

When I try to wake it, it just wakes to a blank screen. I cannot tell if it is actually waking up in the background or not.

Don't know if this is helpful at all or not, but I also tried this (snipping out previous attempts, they're all the same):
code:
framboise@mochi ~> journalctl | grep "suspend"
Feb 19 16:55:53 mochi systemd-logind[480]: The system will suspend now!
Feb 19 16:55:54 mochi systemd-sleep[17885]: Performing sleep operation 'suspend'...
Feb 19 16:55:54 mochi kernel: PM: suspend entry (deep)
framboise@mochi ~> journalctl | grep "wake"
Feb 19 16:56:41 mochi kernel: rtc_cmos 00:02: RTC can wake from S4
framboise@mochi ~> journalctl | grep "resume"
Feb 19 16:56:41 mochi kernel: Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/@/boot/vmlinuz-linux-lts root=UUID=6a982759-ee6f-450d-9c4d-6f5c960978fd rw rootflags=subvol=@ mem_sleep_default=deep nowatchdog nvme_load=YES resume=UUID=303d2b09-8b7e-4604-adc9-e6075ca2705a nvidia-drm.modeset=1 loglevel=3
Feb 19 16:56:41 mochi kernel: Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/@/boot/vmlinuz-linux-lts root=UUID=6a982759-ee6f-450d-9c4d-6f5c960978fd rw rootflags=subvol=@ mem_sleep_default=deep nowatchdog nvme_load=YES resume=UUID=303d2b09-8b7e-4604-adc9-e6075ca2705a nvidia-drm.modeset=1 loglevel=3

Framboise fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Feb 19, 2024

* # ¿ Feb 19, 2024 22:58
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

ziasquinn posted:

in my experience this is an extension issue crashing Gnome.

I'm using KDE now fwiw. Don't really know if that changes much.

Subjunctive posted:

Do you see other activity in the syslog after you wake, but before you reboot? Just seeing it through a grep isn’t going to tell that much, you’ll need to look at the timestamps and see if it’s starting service activity again.

(You could also start sshd and test that way.)


Klyith posted:

(For reference, here's what Subjunctive is asking for: after rebooting due to the black screen, use journalctl -b -1 to see the journal for the previous boot, press end to look at the last stuff that happened.)

-b shows only the journal from a particular boot session. -b 0 (or no number) is the current one, -1 is the previous boot, and so on.

Okay, here's what I have-- I got logs from testing the issue with both Wayland and X11, if it helps at all:
code:
Wayland:
Feb 19 22:07:46 mochi plasmashell[781]: qt.qpa.wayland: Wayland does not support QWindow::requestActivate()
Feb 19 22:07:47 mochi systemd-logind[476]: The system will suspend now!
Feb 19 22:07:47 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398467.8940] manager: sleep: sleep requested (sleeping: no  enabled: yes)
Feb 19 22:07:47 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398467.8941] device (wlan0): state change: disconnected -> unmanaged (reason 'sleeping', sys-iface->
Feb 19 22:07:47 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398467.9404] device (wlan0): set-hw-addr: reset MAC address to  (unmanage)
Feb 19 22:07:47 mochi kernel: rtl8192cu: MAC auto ON okay!
Feb 19 22:07:47 mochi kernel: rtl8192cu: Tx queue select: 0x05
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398468.4357] device (p2p-dev-wlan0): state change: disconnected -> unmanaged (reason 'sleeping', sy>
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398468.4358] manager: NetworkManager state is now ASLEEP
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398468.4360] device (enp3s0): state change: activated -> deactivating (reason 'sleeping', sys-iface>
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi kded5[752]: org.kde.plasma.nm.kded: Unhandled active connection state change:  3
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi wpa_supplicant[578]: wlan0: CTRL-EVENT-DSCP-POLICY clear_all
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi systemd[1]: Starting Network Manager Script Dispatcher Service...
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi systemd[1]: Started Network Manager Script Dispatcher Service.
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398468.4772] device (enp3s0): state change: deactivating -> disconnected (reason 'sleeping', sys-if>
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Withdrawing address record for  on enp3s0.
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Leaving mDNS multicast group on interface enp3s0.IPv6 with address .
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398468.4774] dhcp4 (enp3s0): canceled DHCP transaction
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Joining mDNS multicast group on interface enp3s0.IPv6 with address .
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398468.4774] dhcp4 (enp3s0): activation: beginning transaction (timeout in 45 seconds)
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Registering new address record for  on enp3s0.*.
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398468.4774] dhcp4 (enp3s0): state changed no lease
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Withdrawing address record for  on enp3s0.
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Leaving mDNS multicast group on interface enp3s0.IPv6 with address .
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Interface enp3s0.IPv6 no longer relevant for mDNS.
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Withdrawing address record for  on enp3s0.
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Leaving mDNS multicast group on interface enp3s0.IPv4 with address .
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi avahi-daemon[471]: Interface enp3s0.IPv4 no longer relevant for mDNS.
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi wpa_supplicant[578]: wlan0: CTRL-EVENT-DSCP-POLICY clear_all
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi wpa_supplicant[578]: nl80211: deinit ifname=wlan0 disabled_11b_rates=0
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi NetworkManager[518]: <info>  [1708398468.5321] device (enp3s0): state change: disconnected -> unmanaged (reason 'sleeping', sys-iface>
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi kscreenlocker_greet[2561]: kf.kirigami: Failed to find a Kirigami platform plugin
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi kscreenlocker_greet[2561]: qt.qpa.wayland: Wayland does not support QWindow::requestActivate()
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi systemd[1]: Reached target Sleep.
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi kscreenlocker_greet[2561]: qt.qpa.wayland: Wayland does not support QWindow::requestActivate()
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi systemd[1]: Starting System Suspend...
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi systemd-sleep[2625]: Performing sleep operation 'suspend'...
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi kernel: PM: suspend entry (deep)
Feb 19 22:07:48 mochi kernel: Filesystems sync: 0.027 seconds

X11:
Feb 19 22:12:31 mochi systemd-logind[482]: The system will suspend now!
Feb 19 22:12:31 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398751.9227] manager: sleep: sleep requested (sleeping: no  enabled: yes)
Feb 19 22:12:31 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398751.9229] device (wlan0): state change: disconnected -> unmanaged (reason 'slee>
Feb 19 22:12:31 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398751.9434] device (wlan0): set-hw-addr: reset MAC address to (>
Feb 19 22:12:31 mochi kernel: rtl8192cu: MAC auto ON okay!
Feb 19 22:12:31 mochi kernel: rtl8192cu: Tx queue select: 0x05
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi kscreenlocker_greet[4753]: Qt: Session management error: networkIdsList argument is NULL
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398752.4395] device (p2p-dev-wlan0): state change: disconnected -> unmanaged (reas>
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398752.4397] manager: NetworkManager state is now ASLEEP
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398752.4398] device (enp3s0): state change: activated -> deactivating (reason 'sle>
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi kded5[3223]: org.kde.plasma.nm.kded: Unhandled active connection state change:  3
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi wpa_supplicant[581]: wlan0: CTRL-EVENT-DSCP-POLICY clear_all
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi systemd[1]: Starting Network Manager Script Dispatcher Service...
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi systemd[1]: Started Network Manager Script Dispatcher Service.
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398752.4805] device (enp3s0): state change: deactivating -> disconnected (reason '>
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Withdrawing address record for  on enp3s0.
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Leaving mDNS multicast group on interface enp3s0.IPv6 with address :>
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398752.4807] dhcp4 (enp3s0): canceled DHCP transaction
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Joining mDNS multicast group on interface enp3s0.IPv6 with address .
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398752.4807] dhcp4 (enp3s0): activation: beginning transaction (timeout in 45 seco>
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Registering new address record for  on enp3s0.*.
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398752.4807] dhcp4 (enp3s0): state changed no lease
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Withdrawing address record for  on enp3s0.
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Leaving mDNS multicast group on interface enp3s0.IPv6 with address .
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Interface enp3s0.IPv6 no longer relevant for mDNS.
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Withdrawing address record for  on enp3s0.
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Leaving mDNS multicast group on interface enp3s0.IPv4 with address .
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi avahi-daemon[477]: Interface enp3s0.IPv4 no longer relevant for mDNS.
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi wpa_supplicant[581]: wlan0: CTRL-EVENT-DSCP-POLICY clear_all
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi wpa_supplicant[581]: nl80211: deinit ifname=wlan0 disabled_11b_rates=0
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi NetworkManager[523]: <info>  [1708398752.5280] device (enp3s0): state change: disconnected -> unmanaged (reason 'sle>
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi kscreenlocker_greet[4753]: kf.kirigami: Failed to find a Kirigami platform plugin
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi kscreenlocker_greet[4753]: file:///usr/share/plasma/look-and-feel/org.kde.breeze.desktop/contents/components/Virtual>
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi systemd[1]: Reached target Sleep.
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi systemd[1]: Starting System Suspend...
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi systemd-sleep[4803]: Performing sleep operation 'suspend'...
Feb 19 22:12:32 mochi kernel: PM: suspend entry (deep)
Feb 19 22:12:33 mochi kernel: Filesystems sync: 0.094 seconds
I don't know what sshd is but I can start looking into it.

edit: snipped out addresses. Not sure if that matters or not or if it's of concern, I'm still learning :(

Framboise fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Feb 20, 2024

* # ¿ Feb 20, 2024 04:18
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

Yep, that looks like your system is going to sleep and the OS is never alive enough to log anything after that, so it's not just the display or something.

sshd is the daemon (server) for ssh, ie remote terminal log in for your system.

I don't think that you need to bother -- that would be helpful if your system was still alive after sleep, with just the display or DE dead. But your situation would require you to ssh via ouija board.



What you may want to do is check what BIOS options your mobo / PC has around sleep & power, if they can be set to more generic or basic modes. <- rear end-pull guesses here

Well, drat. That just makes things more complicated.

As far as my BIOS goes, I see a setting for "Suspend to RAM" that is set to "Auto", enabling ACPI S3 power saving (whatever that means), and a "Check Ready Bit" that's enabled, which says "Enable to enter the operating system after S3 only when the hard disk is ready. this is recommended for better system stability." And then a bunch of "allow PC to be woke by xyz entry methods" with USB keyboard and mouse enabled.

* # ¿ Feb 20, 2024 06:24
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

zhar posted:

If it was me I’d try disabling the check ready bit setting to start as I’ve never heard of such a thing. If that didn’t help I’d try nouveau drivers and then maybe try suspend from a Ubuntu livecd or similar to make sure it’s not some wonky config in endeavouros.

No luck on the check ready bit. I'll try to figure out how to set up the nouveau drivers next. However you do that.

* # ¿ Feb 21, 2024 04:21
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

nouveau is built into the kernel so all you need to do is uninstall the proprietary nvidia drivers and you should go back to it

endeavour right? so looks like they have their own nvidia manager nvidia-inst, so running that with --nouveau will switch you back.


edit: uhhh also you did use that in the first place to get the nvidia proprietary drivers, right?

code:
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GM200 [GeForce GTX 980 Ti] (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
        Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. GM200 [GeForce GTX 980 Ti]
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 48
        Memory at f6000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
        Memory at e0000000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
        Memory at f0000000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=32M]
        I/O ports at e000 [size=128]
        Expansion ROM at 000c0000 [virtual] [disabled] [size=128K]
        Capabilities: <access denied>
        Kernel driver in use: nvidia
        Kernel modules: nouveau, nvidia_drm, nvidia
I didn't have to do anything beyond simply selecting the nvidia option when loading up the live environment/installer. I guess it kind of just figured it out from there. I'll try switching over to nouveau now, will report back momentarily.

* # ¿ Feb 21, 2024 06:52
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
I either hosed up something real bad, or it really doesn't like the nouveau drivers.



Back on Windows for now. Not really sure what to do beyond wiping it all out and starting fresh again, I'm not sure how to fix it otherwise.

I now understand just how much nvidia does not play nice with linux.

* # ¿ Feb 21, 2024 07:10
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

Also just how much Arch is a "learn the hard way" distro.

Endeavour should have fallback options in grub to give you text only boot.

Also it's possible that hitting ctrl-alt-F# on that screen will get a usable terminal, because that mess is from the display server failing to start up?

Ctrl+alt+F#s didn't do anything. I did manage to get in by using nomodeset, but if we're at the point where I've been googling for answers for over a week now and trying stuff suggested here and still not making headway, it may just be the distro and I just might not be able to use EndeavourOS/Arch etc for now and I may just need to explore other options until I can upgrade my PC. I got in, salvaged the files I had collected since starting to use it (just some nice wallpapers really), and nuked it all so I can try something else.

I don't really feel like Arch has been any easier or harder to use than any other distro I've tried out (on virtual machine at least)-- it's really just this suspend/hibernate issue that's been such a bummer to deal with. I actively wanted to "learn the hard way" because that's how I learn best, and I like that it's got rolling updates and the AUR, so that's why I had leaned toward it.

I tried installing plain Arch instead of Endeavour tonight and I couldn't even get into the installer (which doesn't even have a graphical interface) without it freezing up the same way that EOS was doing. It really may just be Arch not wanting to play along, so it's time to see if it's just Linux in general that doesn't want to play along with my GPU.


Bark! A Vagrant posted:

I know this is a deeply unsatisfying answer, but how much do you really need suspend? Isn't that a desktop card? Disabling suspend and just using a lock screen or shutting down seems like an easier solution at the current moment.

If you want to keep soldiering on, someone reported that the newest beta driver (550.40.07) fixed the issue for them on a GTX 970.

It's just my general way of doing things that I've done for years. Ever since I had a burn-in issue with Windows that I had managed to fix, I've been cautious to make sure my screen isn't on/won't come back on while I'm not around, so whenever I leave my computer for any extended period of time I'm just used to putting it to sleep. I could just turn the screen off, but I just figured putting the whole thing in a low power state would be better, I dunno.

I'm gonna give Fedora and Kubuntu a try, and if I don't have any better results with those I'll just go back to EOS and lockscreen + turn screen off instead of putting the PC to sleep.

* # ¿ Feb 22, 2024 07:57
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
...okay.

I can suspend without a loving problem on Kubuntu. It's not my GPU at all, it's whatever was going on with EOS that didn't want to play along.

It boots up slower than EOS does, apt feels slower and it seems like I'll need to use whatever snaps are to get certain apps working, but it works for now. I'll take it.

* # ¿ Feb 22, 2024 09:56
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Less Fat Luke posted:

Awesome to hear that your GPU isn't hosed!

When you said it "works out of the box" you weren't kidding.

I'll still go back to an arch distro eventually when I can figure out what the configuration difference is between that and this so things work as they should (likely after I upgrade my PC; it may not even be a problem then), but this hasn't been giving me any static beyond the package manager/repository being a bit more finicky than pacman.

* # ¿ Feb 22, 2024 16:42
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

lmao

(not at you, at this whole... linux)


Re: learning the hard way, I totally get that. But this is kinda what learning the hard way looks like.

Uh, speaking of which I think this is your issue -- seems like a lot of 970 owners in particular are having sleep/resume issues with recent kernels. Many of those reports seem similar or identical to yours. Ubuntu is still on 6.5 which is why your new install works out of the box.

Amazing. (I use a 980 Ti, don't know if that is treated the same or not.) I'm just glad to know that I'm not the only one with this specific issue and it's just as baffling to others as it is to me. I like to think I'm generally good with computers, then something like this happens and I become completely clueless.

Good to know that it's ultimately just something mostly out of my control and not something I was particularly doing wrong.

Klyith posted:

Snaps are sandboxed applications, very similar to flatpak, but Ubuntu's own thing. Sandboxed apps are what a lot of the big-deal linux desktops are moving towards now, because it simplifies dependencies and has security benefits. Con: stuff is slower to start up than a bare-metal app, and you have to manage permissions even for some basic things like storage access.

Arch is starting to be the odd one out for still doing everything bare-metal by default.

You can probably avoid snaps and install apps directly, but it may require adding extra repositories to apt.

Ah, I see. I kind of liked not needing to deal with those, but it is what it is for now. So long as everything works we're good.


Eletriarnation posted:

Yeah, my experience has been that Ubuntu and Fedora are both pretty good at supporting most recent hardware configurations out of the box. They might be making compromises to get reliability over performance, but I haven't been playing games on them so I probably wouldn't notice.

I had tried installing Fedora first but for some reason I couldn't even get the installer/live environment to work at all. I tried fedora's media manager, rufus, etc and no matter what I did, it just wouldn't start up at all. Moved on to kubuntu and that did the trick.

* # ¿ Feb 22, 2024 17:47
  • Quote
Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy

Klyith posted:

lmao

(not at you, at this whole... linux)


Re: learning the hard way, I totally get that. But this is kinda what learning the hard way looks like.

Uh, speaking of which I think this is your issue -- seems like a lot of 970 owners in particular are having sleep/resume issues with recent kernels. Many of those reports seem similar or identical to yours. Ubuntu is still on 6.5 which is why your new install works out of the box.
.

Guess what problem I'm now having on Ubuntu! :smith:

* # ¿ Mar 8, 2024 20:13
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# ¿ May 16, 2024 21:57
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Framboise
Sep 21, 2014

To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.


Lipstick Apathy
Can't wait to upgrade my PC so I can actually run Linux again efficiently. Ever since Kubuntu started having the same suspend issues Endeavour had, I wiped it and tried to install some other OSes like Fedora and VanillaOS (which I'm especially intrigued by), but I can't get them to boot at all. I think something may very well just be borked with my motherboard at this point or something, who even knows.

* # ¿ Apr 13, 2024 18:31
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Linux Questions Thread: a bunch of pitfalls, but technically it's possible