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Familiar story - played piano when I was very young (6 or 7) and then only learned 2 pieces by ear and played them over and over. Those pieces were Solfeggietto and Fur Elise. When my parents tried to get me lessons, I just ran around the instructors house and played their arcade machine with their son. Around 2005 I tried my hand at two beginner piano classes and got As on both easily, but I was still relying on talent and pretty much got through it without really knowing how to read music. After transferring to a different school, I didn't play for awhile until 2009, when I took an intermediate class. There it became obvious how much I was lacking in fundamentals and "winging" it became rather difficult (although I still got an A). I'll also point out that group classes have serious drawbacks - it's really impossible for the instructor to pay attention to any of the individual needs and problems of students, and if you are learning to do something wrong, this has HUGE repercussions. Last semester I payed for a 1 on 1 instruction class for half an hour a week. My talent was obvious to the instructor but some problems were really dragging me down and half an hour a week was not enough time to work them out. In the end I withdrew from it because it was obvious I wasn't going to be finished with my pieces before evaluation time came rolling around. Now I just play and study on my own, trying to practice at least an hour every day. Here are some things I've learned: 1) No matter who you are and what level you are playing at, if your background sounds similar to mine and you are having extremely difficult problems learning a piece, I'd wager that chances are very high that something is majorly screwed up about your fundamentals. No amount of practicing the piece over and over will help you here - its time to analyze what you're doing and find out what is wrong. 2) Weakness in either hand, and weakness in fingers, is an absolute killer. If you find it takes a great deal of effort to press a weighted key, how on Earth do you plan to press a bunch of them incredibly quickly for minutes (or hours) at a time along with everything else you're doing? For this problem, I've been told the Hanon exercises are the final word. Finger strength, independence, flexibility - this is the KEY to good technique. 3) Tension in your hands or fingers is the other absolute killer. This can be very subtle to someone watching and the instructor I had recently wasn't really able to pick up on why I was struggling in some areas. For whatever reason, my hand naturally tenses up extremely tightly when trying to play the piano - it could be because I've spent 12+ years playing first person shooters where tightly gripping the mouse and making fine movements with it is an ingrained habit. At first there was nothing I could do about this tension - it would just drag me down and affect every aspect of my playing. Shaking my hand would do nothing, it would return immediately when I tried to play. Finally I found something (rather silly) that works - soaking my hands in hot water and massaging them vigorously. After doing this my hand finds it cannot tense up no matter what. Basically this allows me to play the way you're supposed to play - your wrists remain loose and flexible, all of the power to play the note comes from your fingers (unless you need more power, to play a series of big chords for example, then you can bring the weight of your wrists and arms down) and your forearms just move up and down. I can't overstate how much this helped me, total night and day difference. Anyway, I am currently learning: The Well-Tempered Clavier, Book 2, Prelude in G major (BMV 884) Two-Part Inventions, Invention #4 in D Minor Cheers edit: I haven't read the entire thread (just the first 10 pages and the last 5) but I haven't seen this posted yet and for free sheet music, this place: http://imslp.org/wiki/ is absolutely the way to go. The only downside is that a few of the scores may not be legally public domain or free, but they are pretty good about policing it and its almost entirely stuff from the baroque/classical/romantic periods (i.e. long rear end times ago.) CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2011 |
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Mar 23, 2011 03:24
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that Vai sound posted:What are some good books about playing the piano? I'm looking for something dealing with technique and exercises, something I could use to help me brush up. I took about six years of lessons, but then went on a hiatus, so I'm an intermediate level player who's forgotten things. This free online pdf book has a lot of useful information in it: http://c0431582.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/book.pdf I found the link on the piano world forums for adult beginners. The best teacher is a good instructional piece (Bach's Inventions and lots of his other small piano works) with the guidance of a good instructor. If an instructor isn't available, then it can be difficult to improve your technique beyond a certain point - it's hard guessing all the best methods yourself! Specific exercises that are good to practice are Arepeggios and Scales because you will be using these fingerings in every piece. I've heard good and bad things about Hanon exercises, and I think they can be a good tool for warming up and strengthening your fingers. The critics argue that you can do just as well by practicing actual pieces! There are a number of teaching books out there, but I liked "The Piano Handbook: A Complete Guide to Mastering the Instrument." The title is sort of ostentatious but it walks you through pretty much everything up to the end of intermediate level with lots and lots of exercise pieces and decent guidance on those. Be prepared to advance slowly through this book, because by piece 10 you will be well into intermediate level works.
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Apr 20, 2011 12:57
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I have a question: I've always wondered how hand span reach on a piano is measured. Do they go by the largest interval your hands can reach, or is there some specific convention? And for the interval do they count half-steps or just the distance between white keys? If I was forced to do only white keys then I can barely reach from C4 to D5. But if black keys are included, I can span a 16th with my left hand if my 5th finger is touching a C and my thumb is reaching up one octave and a few notes to E-flat (or from E to C# with right hand). But this is made possible only because of the ability to stretch your thumb to reach a higher black key. So are only white keys counted? For example, C5 to G5 is a perfect 5th, but it is actually 7 half-steps. Likewise the interval I can reach from C4 to D5 is maybe only a 10th by white keys but it is actually 15 half-steps. I hope its half-steps because then I can feel great about my hand span of a 16th :S CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Apr 20, 2011 |
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Apr 20, 2011 13:05
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that Vai sound posted:You might want to check out Celebration Series Perspectives. Those books have both classical and contemporary music. Fur Elise is in level 7. Is there any place to buy these books in the US?
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Apr 26, 2011 11:14
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Well I'm going to post here, but I also might make a thread. I am putting together a personal collection of piano recordings. I plan on mainly just distributing them to family and threads, but who knows, I might end up going broader than that. The tools I have at my disposal are the following: 1) Yamaha Clavinova CVP-35, a digital piano that my family has owned for awhile. 2) SONAR Home Studio 7, some software I bought last year 3) A USB MIDI In/Out adapter So far this has been enough to make some basic recordings. I have made 3 so far and I plan on recording my favorite songs out of my repertoire. Here are a few questions: 1) How good is the piano, compared to others? I never really had much to compare it to, but it is full-sized with weighted keys. The sound quality is still fine but obviously does not compare to a grand. 2) How can I make these recordings as good as possible? I am using the software synths that came with SONAR, and they get the job done, but the quality of the music sounds limited. Can I do better with MIDI if I get some better synths, or should I really just look into finding a grand to play on and recording that? 3) Do you think it would be worth doing anything with my recordings other than distributing them to family and friends? I personally think that MIDI-to-synth recordings are not worth even attempting to sell or even put up on something like youtube, because it just doesn't compare at all to even a cell-phone recording of an actual piano. I appreciate any thoughts you guys wish to share. Also if you want to hear these recordings yourself I'd be glad to send them to anyone.
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Apr 28, 2011 05:25
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Woozy posted:Any tips or exercises for developing left-hand autonomy on keyboard? I'm still a beginner and I'm really hitting a wall trying to get my left hand to do any other than mimic my right which of course makes almost every song impossible. I can do okay if the left and right are on the same beat or alternating but anything more complex than that just full stop fucks me up. The very first lesson in this area is to play a two-octave scale hands together. This is because after the first three notes the hands do different things. One note at a time, play the correct sequence. It is extremely painful but like riding a bike, once your brain breaks the coordination of the hands you will soon be able to play a two-octave scale in any key with ease. Next, you can try some exercises or pieces. J.S. Bach's Two-part inventions are excellent pieces for this kind of technical development. The two hands are literally playing almost separate songs, and take turns playing the melody. The next step to independent hands is to play music where they do different things, and these Two-part Inventions will force you to do it. Aside from being very challenging the #4 and #8 invention sound awesome :] Also be aware that pianos have what is called a 'register', and the higher notes on the piano are not as pronounced as the lower ones, all other things being equal. This means you have to play the left hand softer than you might 'think' and the right hand louder than you might 'think' to get the right sound. The next thing, which I think can be even more challenging than a piece, is an exercise like trying to play one hand with different articulations or dynamics than the other. I.e., the left hand soft, the right hand loud, the left hand staccato, the right hand legato, etc. Ultimately its just like riding a bicycle - it's a very painful first few hours until finally you get the idea just like you do with the scales. Go very slow and if needed just do one note at a time, just as you would with scales. Eventually you will break that coordination. Try these exercises. For articulation, play a two-octave scale with two hands together and have one hand play staccato and one hand legato (extremely difficult at first). Then practice taking turns after every run with the hands switching up the role of legato and staccato. For dynamics, try having your right hand gently and loosely play repeating soft chords while the left hand tenses up and plays a very loud melody. Always exaggerate these things as much as possible. When doing this stuff it will feel like neurons in your brain are getting ripped apart. But you will get it eventually. Take lots of breaks to stretch your hands/arms/neck and go easy on yourself.
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Sep 25, 2011 00:48
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Janin posted:I couldn't get into piano class this quarter because it was full, so I'll probably be asking stupid questions in this thread instead. Apologies in advance. No way to play that without cheating somewhere, unless of course a 10th is comfortable for you.
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Oct 19, 2011 23:07
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Paperhouse posted:Anyone got any advice for getting good at reading sheet music? Something a bit beyond "just practice", wonder if there are techniques people use to help them or something. Basically I'm still woeful at reading the notes and it makes learning pieces very time consuming and difficult, despite trying for a long time to get better at it it's really slow progress Sight-reading is a skill that has more than just one component, and it would be helpful to think of it this way. It's really a series of skills. The best analogy is reading a language - once you learn the alphabet of some language, in theory you can spell out any word that you read and know what it sounds like, but it's incredibly inefficient and wasteful. The goal is learn the words and grammar of music which makes the whole reading process much easier. Your difficulties might not be due to any lack of ability, but simply that you don't know the language of music well enough yet so you're reading is bound to be super slow (hence why other people are asking about your knowledge of theory.) I'm going to start by saying that to improve at sight-reading, you really should work on it a little each day or each time your practice. The practice really is indispensable. Ideally, just sight read a lot of very small and very easy pieces. Don't be afraid to make it super easy, and play as slow as you need to be accurate. You should take your time and play the correct notes, slowing down where needed. But there is a lot more to the story. To get an idea of the language of music, consider rhythmic patterns. You need to already have in your visual memory what certain rhythmic patterns look like, and furthermore, what rhythm that pattern corresponds to aurally (i.e., in sound). That way when you see a certain rhythmic arrangement of notes (say, a dotted quarter, then an 8th note) you won't have to pause and try to remember what that rhythm sounds like, you will play the rhythm correctly automatically. Of course, there are also the notes, the articulations, and so on. You will acquire these things over time by sight-reading a lot of music, but studying them independently can produce the same or even better results. You can find theory books that have just the raw rhythmic patterns for study, and you can clap them and count them out loud to associate what they look like with what they sound like. The 'language' of music includes: 1) Scales, chord progressions, arpeggios - these occur over and over again in pretty much all music, and while learning them all is a feat, it should be the eventual goal of any serious piano player to learn at least the 4 major white keys (C, G, D, A) and a thing or two about minor keys. There are lots of books out there that contain all of these. 2) Rhythmic motiffs and patterns - contrary to what you might think, there are only a limited number of these that occur over and over again, with only very infrequent exceptions. You can study these independently and clap/count them out loud until you get an idea what they sound like. 3) Intervals, both for melody and chords - knowing what a sixth looks like on the page as a chord or two notes in a row. Pretty much the only ones you need to know are 2nds to an octave. For a 5th, it's two lines up for a line note, and two spaces up for a space note - this is a distinct visual pattern, and there is one for all of those intervals. Once you know these, you can almost ditch just reading the notes. 4) Theoretical structure - over time playing more and more music, you will start to get a good sense of how something should go or sound, and you will hopefully at some point get some instruction on this as well. Certain things are used in almost all music, such as the 4th and 5th notes of a scale being used for harmony, especially the dominant seventh (4-note) chord of the 5th note. 5) The actual notes. For me, the whole EGBDF and so on works horribly for me. I've always had trouble with sight reading and it's way behind my other piano abilities, and I can sometimes stare at a note for 10 seconds before recognizing it. I've done tons of notespeller books and I just seem to be naturally weak in this area. Fortunately all of the other knowledge I have lets me site read somewhat OK despite this horrid weakness. Basically, the last thing you want to see when reading music is a bunch of black dots that you have to spend mental energy and minutes to sort out, before playing one note. You should already have practiced and studied the building blocks of music and it's rare you will run into anything that will throw you off or won't be covered by these basics. Once you've learned these things it will literally change what you see, just like that picture with a vase and two faces - knowledge can really change what you are looking at (aka someone telling you there is a face or a vase.) Speaking of sight reading, one thing I like to do is download the scores of music from some of my favorite works and try to follow along with the score while I listen to a recording. The Busoni Piano Concerto is a fun one to download and read while listening to a recording (or the live performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rFV_g6T5lM&list=PL32E8AC976D6FEB11&feature=plpp_play_all). This one is fun because of how hilariously hard it is, and you get to watch the fireworks with the live performance. http://i.imgur.com/HN1Uf.jpg CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Nov 30, 2011 |
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Nov 30, 2011 09:05
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facepalmolive posted:This is a really good point. Great post in general, in fact. This got me thinking -- maybe practice sight-reading from etude books? Different etude pieces focus on different things -- e.g., one might focus on broken chords and another may focus on tricky rhythm -- but all of them usually have some sort of focus. Maybe you can abuse this to help you get used to sightreading these patterns? Yea, there are lots of great books out there for this. USA Neil A. Kjos Music Library Kieth Snell: Piano Repertoire, Baroque and Classical (Level One) Kieth Snell: Piano Repertoire, Romantic and Modern (Level One) Kieth Snell: Piano Repertoire, Etudes (Level One) Alfred Piano Library Selections from Anna Magdalena's Notebook, Alfred Masterwork CD Edition Canada Royal Conservatory of Music Celebration Series Perspectives, Repertoire (Level One) Celebration Series Perspectives, Etudes (Level One) It's quite normal for your sight reading to lag somewhat behind what you can learn and play. If you can play level 6-7 stuff from the RCM books (late intermediate), then it's normal to sight read at about level 2 to 3-ish (middle beginner). Some people were taught to pretty much always sight read at the level of their play - in other words, they are constantly reading from their music to play new stuff. But for many players like myself, my sight reading is way behind because it's very difficult for me and it's possible to learn much harder pieces by simply reading slowly and then speeding it up in muscle memory, despite the fact that it takes a lot more time. Even though I can play some beginning/middle intermediate stuff, I can barely sight read level one material. But sooner or later you just gotta do it, and it will pay dividends in the long run because learning repertoire at the mid intermediate level and beyond will become horribly inefficient without these skills. Sight reading is actually helpful for technique, because you will have a much more comprehensive understanding of the music you are playing. There are at least these four components to knowing a piece: 1) Having a visual memory of the piece (being able to visualize the notes on a page, and visualize the keys on the keyboard), 2) Having an aural memory of the piece (the sounds of the pitches, the sound of the rhythm), 3) Having the piece committed to muscle memory, and 4) Having the piece musically analyzed (knowing the structure of the piece which can be learned by studying theory). Some people tend to rely exclusively on one memory method, or in my case, two - audio and muscle. Knowing the piece in all four ways will allow you to play much more difficult pieces from memory than would otherwise be possible, and play them much better because your understanding of them will truly be complete. If all you have is your muscle memory or audio memory, it's easy to draw a blank or get totally lost when your fingers don't remember what to do. Fine motor muscle memory in particular is one of the most finnicky things in the world. CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Nov 30, 2011 |
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Nov 30, 2011 22:13
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Also, there are theory books which deal just with the raw building blocks. The Neil A. Kjos Music Company has a set of theory books called Fundamentals of Piano Theory by Kieth Snell and Martha Ashleigh. I think at least a basic knowledge of theory is a must for all piano players. For piano players specializing in being pianists and improving their technique, there is probably a point in theory where you don't really need to go further. Of course, if you are interested in composing as well as playing, then you should take the theory as far as you can.
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Nov 30, 2011 22:19
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Incredulous Dylan posted:Thanks for the suggestion - I read up a bit on these and just picked up the last boxset on Amazon at $50 for all of the levels. I look forward to these! Those Keith Snell ones are pretty nice because each book repeats the important stuff from the level before, and everything builds on what you already know. The level one book is probably the hardest because you are learning some building blocks from scratch, but from there it just gets easier. I recommend that if you work through the books, try to do everything even though you will repeat some stuff from level to level. There is some stuff that is worth doing over and over until it's second nature, like the circle of fifths and key signatures. It may get tiresome to write out the I, IV, and V chords for every key over and over, but this stuff will pay huge dividends once you've got it down. Those theory books also have lots of excerpts and even small pieces in them, perfect for site reading. If there are excerpt examples try to play them on the piano, sing them, or at least clap them out loud. For the ear training parts, you will need a second person to play random notes while you guess them. Ear training is really a wonderful thing because if you aren't naturally gifted at the aural part, this will get you to the point where you can play by ear and hear music just by reading it. You will eventually learn what a different intervals sound like (a 2nd, or 4th, for example) what pitches correspond to which notes, what triads sound like, then seventh chords, etc. You can base it on tunes you might already know, like this: Intervals: (do - C, re - D, mi - E, fa - F, sol - G, la - A, si - B) 2nd - Happy Birthday (do, do, re, do, fa, mi!) (Hap - py BIRTH - day) 3rd - Oh When the Saints (do, mi, fa, sol, do, mi, fa, sol) (Oh WHEN) 4th - Auld Lang Syne (do, fa) (Should OLD) 5th - Twinkle Twinkle Little Star (do, do, sol, sol) (Twin - kle TWIN - KLE) 6th - My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean (do, la!) (My BONNIE) 7th - ? don't know a good one (do, si!) 8va (octave) - Somewhere, Over the Rainbow (do, do!) (Some WHERE) CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Dec 1, 2011 |
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Dec 1, 2011 08:46
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Bob Shadycharacter posted:I always used the Star Wars theme for a fifth. Nerd. This happens to me occasionally, and I don't really know what you can do about it. If you have any moisture at all on your hands it makes playing almost impossible. Those black keys are slippery enough already!
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Dec 2, 2011 08:14
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Zyklon B Zombie posted:Does anyone know what the double bass clef in this sheet music is? Sometimes composers will split up music into more than two staves so it's more easily arranged. Sorabji at one point uses I think 6 staves in his solo piano work, the Opus Clavicembalisticum (because he's one evil, evil motherfucker.) Basically, if the work is a solo piano work you have to find a way to play everything in both base clefs as well as the treble clef. These things certainly could be played as duets, and also some music is intended for keyboards with multiple manuals like organs and some older harpsichords, but judging by the title of the song that doesn't seem to be the case here. edit : whoops, I called the treble clef the alto clef. corrected CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Dec 26, 2011 |
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Dec 25, 2011 10:54
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rFV_g6T5lM&list=PL32E8AC976D6FEB11&feature=plpp_play_all When the orchestra starts playing this concerto, any ordinary mortal soloist would experience extreme terror at what's to come. Unless your the Hammy the piano-pillager, that is.
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Jan 4, 2012 13:41
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Stryguy posted:Do any of you more veteran players have some tips or advice on learning to play deeper? It's honestly not even fun to practice anymore because of it. I went from being able to play simple songs really well, to sounding like a loving gorilla mashing on the keyboard. There are a lot of different situations and scenarios that you need experience handling. The most important thing to remember when playing into the keyboard is that it's a tool for playing some things easier, but it shouldn't be overused or underused - it's just a tool in the tool box. The main purpose of it is to make black keys easier to play in pieces with lots of black and white keys together. The difficulty comes in the fact that many people's fingers don't fit between the keys well. The main solution for this is to curl your fingers more because the end of your finger is smaller than the 'beginning.' Another thing to do is just play normally and accept that you aren't likely to make any noise on the black key on a proper piano with heavy action - pressing down with normal velocity is unlikely to upset the black keys around, even if it pushes them a bit. Of course, it will require more force than normal because your finger is getting 'stuck' a bit on the black keys. This extra force is probably what is styming you right now, and if this is the case, try to curl your fingers more, or learn to apply more pressure in these situations. But really the challenge of it all is understanding the hand and the many different ways it can be shaped, and the many different situations that can arise and the best approach for them. Black keys are best pressed with flatter fingers, but keys between black keys are best played with curled fingers. So when both exist in a piece you have to switch up what each finger is doing. Some fingers have to be curled while others stay flat. A great piece that comes to mind is the D Minor Invention. The first two bars of the piece for the right hand have this fingering: 212345 The two crosses over and presses D, then the 12345 plays the next 5 notes in the D Minor scale. D (cross back) E F G A Bb Next comes: 154321 Db (black key with thumb) Bb (black key with pinky) A G F E So with your right hand, you go up the piano, then play a low black key, then come back down. Here you are doing what is usually dreaded - playing black keys with your pinky and with your thumb. This is probably intentional on Bach's part. You are also playing all of the white keys in between the set of 3 black keys between E and B - also probably intentional, and this theme repeats later in the piece. So this is a good example of where you should play into the keys. The trouble is, flat fingering is preferable for playing black keys, especially with your thumb and pinky, while curled fingers are better for hitting the notes in between the black keys. Bach loves to torture you with these paradoxes, but there is a point - you will eventually figure out a way to handle it that works for you. edit: typoz CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jan 6, 2012 |
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Jan 5, 2012 10:40
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Has anyone ever gotten to the point where they realize more and more how much their playing sucks, and they just want to stop playing what they are playing? It seems to be related to progress. In my case it's gotten to the point where I refuse to even play what I am (or was) working on because I just can't stand the frustration of it sounding that bad. I guess it's the downside of having a good ear. I am making progress, but progress for me mostly reveals how inadequate my music sounds. I guess it's better to be aware of this then be ignorant. I think I've probably tried to leapfrog too far in my repertoire and shouldn't be playing the things I am currently playing. So now I'm not even going to try to play anything but level one stuff and 12-bar blues stuff for awhile and make it sound as good as possible. I need to avoid taking shortcuts and trying to be at a level technically that I'm not. It feels like the right thing to do but I'm sure someone disagrees  And yes, I am a hardcore perfectionist - I can't stand the sound of even note flubbed or too soft or too loud. I guess if my stuff doesn't sound like Van Cliburn I get raged ^_^
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Feb 7, 2012 11:08
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facepalmolive posted:Yep, I hear ya, buddy. It's why I actually stopped playing, sadly. Every once in awhile I'd get the itch to start again, then I hit the perfectionism and frustration stage (not to mention that I sound even worse than I did before because I hadn't touched a piano in so long) and remember why I stopped. Thanks for the honesty, it's not easy to give something like piano up. Frustration in some cases is a motivator, but if playing is all frustration and no reward then it becomes harder and harder to continue playing. In most things I do (various hobbies) I run into that frustration / perfectionism deal and often quit. To be honest I wonder if most successful pianists are actually obsessive perfectionists. I used to think obsession with perfection and constant frustration were positive traits to have, but now I'm not so sure, because more than one hobby for me was crushed by this. A lot of good piano players I meet are almost the opposite in personality. I what Hamelin's relationship to his craft is. He definitely seems at ease with it, whether or not it's because it's so easy for him. My hope is that I can develop a better relationship with playing by tackling things that I can handle so I can get that sense of accomplishment that comes with doing something correctly. In a way, this almost requires you to be 'dumb' about it - i.e., don't get into that mode where you are like "ok nice job on this easy piece, but actually you still suck." Ha ha.
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Feb 8, 2012 01:11
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Eustacia posted:This newbie book is just plain bad. I'm learning, but it's got errors, and it doesn't teach fingering for chords. Been trying to figure out a good way to do them, and I get by, but there's really no way to play C7 or F7 chords with the fingering it teaches at the beginning of the book with fingers arched over the white keys beneath the black keys. I am not sure what the exact fingerings are for most seventh chords, but for C7 I use 1234 or 1235 for the right hand. They definitely aren't easy to play. I recommend trying G7 first, since it is the most common progression from C and is all white keys. G7 is GBDF, and is played with 1245 right hand or 5321 for left hand. A great introduction to seventh chords is arpeggios since these teach you to stretch you fingers over a wide range. quote:I know someone in this thread was talking about a position where you arch the fingers between the black keys...it's tight tho. Not sure how someone with fat fingers could play in that position. I have fat fingers and it gets annoying sometimes. I arch my fingers and press down harder than normal to get the same sound, which is difficult. I have trouble on keyboards with lighter action (like my digital keyboard at home) because when I press down in between the keys it can sometimes push the black keys enough to make a flub. On pianos with good action and regulation, this is not usually a problem - the action is heavy enough that pushing the key from the side and down won't cause it to depress. quote:Basically stumped how to play these 4-chords, especially quickly. Playing 4-note chords quickly hopefully isn't a part of your repertoire at the moment - as far as I know that kind of stuff is pretty advanced. The way seventh chords are formed is related to music theory. There are many kinds of seventh chords, but the most important one is a dominant seventh chord. A dominant seventh chord consists of a root, a major third, a perfect 5th, and a minor seventh. A half step is the very next note on the keyboard, whether it's a black key or white key. Here are the relevant intervals: root - the base note of the chord major 3rd - 4 half-steps from the root perfect 5th - 7 half-steps from the root minor 7th - 10 half-steps from the root The minor seventh explains the B flat in a C7 chord. Also, in music, the 4th and 5th notes of a scale are some of the most important for harmony. The 5th note of the C Major scale is G, so a seventh chord with G as the root would be a G7 chord and would be very useful for chord progressions in C Major. For whatever mathematical reason, going from C Major to G7 and then back is a harmonious progression. G7 as mentioned would be G, B, D, and F which is the root G, a major 3rd, a perfect 5th, and a minor 7th. quote:I can play 3-note bass chords in harmony with the treble melody pretty well tho. Having an easier time learning chords on my left hand even, despite being right handed. Definitely learn triads before messing with sevenths. A lot of seventh chords are simplified into triads to make chord progressions easier. For example, G7 is often played as B, F, and G - a triad that is easy to play before and after the C Major triad of C E G. The fingering for B F G would be 521 for the LH and 145 for the RH. It is basically the notes of G7, GBDF, re-arranged, omitting the D, and sounds similar so works well for chord progressions. edit: woops, fingerings needed to be changed CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Feb 12, 2012 |
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Feb 11, 2012 02:25
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SVU Fan posted:Hey guys, so I picked up piano a little while ago to further my production abilities as a musician, but at this point I'm looking for a teacher to take it to the next level. The best advice I can give is find someone who will compliment what you already know and don't know. Since you already have a great deal of music experience, look for a teacher that compliments your weaknesses. Also, look for a teacher that specializes in your interests. Since composition is one you might look for a teacher that either is a composer or teaches compositional elements. Since you mentioned that you are interested in jazz/neo-soul esque pieces, try to find a jazz pianist, etc. This is very important, because not all teachers are the same and you will waste time and money with a teacher that doesn't offer something. For myself I found a local teacher who is a composer and is helping me a lot with music theory and musicality, which is a great fit for me because up to that point I had been tackling pieces of increasing technical difficulty with little thought to how musical I was making it or how the music behind the notes really worked. I could barely sight read in fact. It was a lot of work and pretty painful, but now I have enough theory knowledge to analyze and break down almost any piece and learn it very quickly. Good luck.
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Feb 16, 2012 04:44
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polyfractal posted:Any tips on playing polyrhythms? I'm learning Chopin's "Nocturne Op. 9, No 1 in B flat minor" and the various polyrhythmic parts are killing me (7/6 or 11/6). I learned triplets by subdividing, but doing that with those kinds is very impractical. You might do it just to get a feel for it though. 7 against 6 is very similar to 6/6 except the left hand will come up just a bit short until you hit 42nd sixteenth, or 22nd 8th, or 11 1/2th quarter where they agree. 11 against 6 is close to 12/6, but with the left hand coming up just short until the 22nd quarter. I haven't been very successful in my attempts to learn these kinds of polyrythms yet (I took a stab at the Fanatasia-Impromptu 4/3 awhile back). It really is a mindbender, more than anything else I've encountered in music.
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Feb 21, 2012 21:39
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The link you provided is just a png image....where can I get the audio? Sorry if I'm completely clueless  .
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Feb 28, 2012 00:11
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:When you're learning something quite long, or varied how do you do it? Assume its actually a challenging piece for you not something you can just sight read your way through and bash out pretty well first time. The longest piece I've completely learned is around 3 minutes, so I don't have personal experience with something very long (although I've got something in the works). I do know that when you are learning a piece, how you learn it is quite important, and it's super easy to be wasteful. The first thing that helps me when learning a new piece is to NOT try to learn the notes start to finish and get them in muscle memory. This is what I did with pieces before I got some better instruction to do otherwise and you will quickly hit limits with what you can learn with just rote muscle memorization. It's hard to see how big a difference it would make to change your approach slightly, but believe me, it does. C.C. Chang's Fundamentals of Piano Practice (check out the piano world links in this thread) has a lot of useful advice about learning a piece. The first thing you should do is break down the piece musically - sub-divide the piece into it's musical elements such as phrases, themes, motiffs, movements, etc. Do not just practice it from beginning to end over and over - practice musical phrases (or sentences) in isolation and then work on bringing them together. Playing from beginning to end will work on simple beginner pieces, but once you move on to longer and harder ones this approach is hopeless. On that note, when learning a brand new piece, I would ditch muscle memory entirely for the first week or so (less depending on the difficulty). Relying on muscle memory is a mistake a lot of beginners make (including myself) and it works fine for earlier level pieces, but can only carry you so far before it fails miserably. For longer more difficult pieces, I would just focus on understanding the piece musically and structurally for some time, and forming connections with it. By connections I don't necessarily mean emotional or expressive connections (those are also great of course!), but more associative connections to assist in memory. How can you make the piece make sense to you, so that your memory will be enhanced? Analyze and break down the structure of the piece. Even if you don't know a lot of formal theory, you can still do a lot to connect with the structure of the piece even if it's as basic as "Ok, this chord is white key, black key, white key!", "OK, this is where the scale stops, and the thirds begin" or "this part is all white keys" etc. Personally, if the piece is a character piece, I like to think of the story the piece is telling to help me remember and get a feel for where it goes. "This is where the dance slows down for a bit, then picks up again" for example, or "This is where the forest murmurs get quiet and you can hear the melody of the singing birds more clearly." The more associations, the better. Human memory is associative and works in a counter-intuitive way. Experts at memorization accomplish incredible feats because they have so many associations or routes to their knowledge, and this just allows them to have even more, which creates this kind of iterative exponentially exploding memory network (I just lol'd at what I wrote there.) So sit down with a piece and spend all the time in the world on understanding it MINUS the muscle memory. If you've got absolute pitch and / or are working on ear training, see how much of the piece you can put together in your mind. Most people don't have absolute pitch so you might have to work backwards or forwards in relationship to some point. Knowing how all the scales / arpeggios / cadences sound will go a long way to this. Once you've got the piece nailed down visually, structurally, aurally, then when you do start learning the notes, you'll find that what you are playing comes alive. It makes sense as music, and not just rote notes. As I mentioned relying on muscle memory too much is my own unique problem and my approach reflects this, but I hope this info can still help out. Also, more WTF Hamelin! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRFGIUN2MLA&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL2F636FDFC627382B what even is that thing?
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Mar 15, 2012 00:29
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Silkki posted:I stopped playing piano when I was about 12 years old. Now that I am 23 I have started practicing again. It worries me, that I might learn 'bad habits' and actually do my playing great harm in the long run. A good teacher is pretty much always very important early on if you want to reach a high level of playing, because most people are not capable of re-inventing the wheel and a teacher will show you the proper ways to practice and reveal your mistakes to you as they happen. It's not really possible to self-teach yourself completely unless you're Art Tatum or some kind of crazy prodigy. I am sort of in the same boat, except I never played formally at all when I was younger - just by ear and messing around at the piano. I was too hyperactive for piano lessons - I'd just run away from the instructor and run around the house. I never took it seriously until I took a group class at community college in 2005. After two semesters, I didn't take another class or practice much until after I finished university. My next semester was in Spring 2009, and then one in Fall 2010, and finally one in Fall 2011 and Spring 2012. So I've had six semesters of serious instruction and I've had one-on-one lessons for about 8 months from a local instructor/composer. Although I got sort of far (or at least, I thought I got sort of far) learning on my own, I slowly realized how there were so many gaping holes in my knowledge and so many problems with my technique that the only thing I could do is destroy everything I taught myself and rebuild from the proper foundations. There is quite a lot of knowledge out there and not really any good places where it is well documented - actually a lot of it really can't be documented, it has to be demonstrated in person, or a problem must be recognized as its individual manifestation in a particular student by an instructor. For all aspects of playing, it has been my one-on-one lessons with a nearby instructor / composer that has helped the most- by far. The group classes have also been fairly helpful, but they can be limited since the instructor has minimal time to address each student's needs. Still, I would strongly, strongly recommend checking out nearby community colleges and seeing if they have music programs. Group music classes are some of the best investments of time and money I have ever made. For around $30 a unit and $35 for parking, I've got an incredible group class instructor, access to a huge music library, and access to practice rooms with acoustic pianos for 6 out of 7 days of the week. Not to mention I get to be part of a community of some very gifted and talented faculty / students. The music program at my local CC, El Camino Community College, happens to be a very strong program. Also, community college in California tends to own harder than a lot of other places, so your mileage may vary. It is likely that these music programs will have contacts for one-on-one instructors as well. I think it's fine to practice on your own before getting formal instruction but I would recommend against trying to accomplish too much too soon. Play very simple pieces, learn them very, very slowly, and try to make them as musical as possible. Always learn hands separately first. Always learn to play everything correctly the first time - accent the right beats, follow the dynamics, don't speed up or slow down (use a metronome!), etc. Put pieces hands together super, super, SUPER slow. Always play so slowly that there is absolutely no tension, and always focus on making the playing as easy as humanly possible. Minimize and economize the motion of your hands/arms/torso. If you are experiencing any tension, pain, discomfort, then you are going way too hard. If you are playing something you have practiced a lot and it comes out uneven and with lots of mistakes, then that piece is too hard for you and trying to learn it is probably a very bad idea. For example, with very little formal instruction I've tried to tackle intermediate level pieces and thought I could get by on musical talent. I was dead wrong. Sure, I could eventually learn the notes, and play them back with no mistakes - 5% percent of the time. But as I heard recordings and got more instruction, I came to hate my playing. Getting the notes right (hopefully) is one thing, but there are so many more dimensions to playing that getting the notes right is like 5% of making it sound good. Trust me, playing something incredibly musically, even if it is relatively simple, is much more rewarding than tackling something way beyond your means and struggling to avoid serious blunders every time you play it. The key to playing pieces like that, or playing Chopin's Fantasia Impromptu, is NOT to play them until you've built your technique from the ground up to that point. Your technique is literally an edifice slowly constructed piece by piece - it's like it's some MMORPG skill beginning at 1 and ending at 10,000 for hours practiced. I'm probably in the low hundreds of total hours practiced - if that. Getting good at this instrument takes a long, long time, and you can't get to a high level without going through stages in-between - it just can't be done. But one thing is certain - you are guaranteed continuous and gradual improvement, if time and effort is put into practicing. The improvement may come quickly, slowly, or not at all for awhile, but that is normal. It will usually come in peeks and plateaus. Just as with a sport, there are levels - little league, high school, college, the big leagues. It will be worth your while the whole way up because you will be doing what you enjoy, and it will pass by so gradually that you won't think that you are improving until you realize that the piece you are playing flawlessly now was the one that baffled you 2 years ago, and you will be forced to admit to that obsessive compulsive perfectionist in yourself that you are at least two or three times better than you were. Good luck!
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Apr 30, 2012 16:16
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Moszkowski is really underrated. I'd hardly heard of him until a little while ago, just started learning Study in G minor, (op 91, no 10 iirc) and its beautiful. I'm not sure what your level is, but a lot of his Etudes from Op. 72 are very pretty. This over-achieving YouTube link has all of them conveniently listed - take your pick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvuWKrWBIwQ Unfortunately, the performer is not given. I like the Ab Minor and F Major ones. One of the students at my music school performed the A-flat minor Etude in the master class and the F Major one later in a recital.
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May 22, 2012 03:18
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:I have no idea either, I've not been playing long (just shy of 5 months maybe) but come from a heavy musical background. I know the one I'm playing is classed as UK grade 6 (I think there is a differnce UK\USA? Uk goes to grade 8 if that helps :S), since I'm playing it from the exam book, it's also the level my piano teacher thinks I should enter the exam structure at. Those etudes are pretty tough then. I would try browsing the IMSLP here: http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Moszkowski,_Moritz I'd look for more pieces in Op 91 or through similar works - he wrote a lot of small-scale piano pieces. You could then try to find performances on YouTube. If you don't already have it, get Spotify and you can browse through recordings of some of Moskowski's stuff.
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May 24, 2012 03:51
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Lots of discussions of purchasing new pianos, so I thought I'd jump in. Because my classes are over I need a good piano to practice on at home during the summer. Since '92 our family has owned a Yamaha CP-35 Clavinova and now the action is pretty messed up. A lot of dust and dirt has gotten into the mechanism and it's drat near impossible to get a reliable and consistent sound out of it. So I am looking for a replacement. I'm currently an intermediate/advanced piano student and I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations for a high quality digital piano? My knowledge of the market and current products available is almost non-existent. Acoustic pianos are out of the question because cost, space, and maintenance are deal-breakers. I am willing to invest in something of moderate to high quality, with a soft & damper pedal, and maybe bundled with an adjustable bench. 88 weighted keys with very good action are extremely important, and features to make recording easier (good on-board electronics, memory, USB MIDI in/out etc.) would be great also. I'm a firm believer in word of mouth so if anyone has a really awesome high quality digital piano to recommend I would be grateful.
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Jun 10, 2012 06:08
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Kikka posted:I've been trying my hand at learning music theory through the piano, since composing music is fascinating to me. I've been using the Musictheory.net site, are there any further recommendations for learning to use music theory in your composing? If you are working on your own, there are lots of good books on theory out there. Tonal Harmony by Stefan Kotska is one of the best textbooks and most complete, but very expensive and difficult to work with in absence of a teacher. The series "Fundamentals of Piano Theory" by Keith Snell and Martha Ashleigh has 11 levels of books, with each book costing around $8, and you can work on them at your own pace and get the next book when needed. I've worked through these to level 6 on my own. I find these to be much easier for 'self-teaching' although you will have to apply yourself. The nice things about these books is that the most important fundamentals are taught in the first few levels, and from that you are all set except for a few more optional advanced concepts. Learning this early foundation is by far the hardest part, but after the 5th book the end of all music theory is clearly in sight.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:09
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Oh noes! This thread is going long periods without posts. I think maybe everyone should share what they are working on? I am thrilled to announce that I got a new piano, and it's just excellent. The sound sample is superb and the action is very high quality. It's also easy as cake to record - just plug in a USB drive and record audio directly on it using the piano's awesome sample! I spent this afternoon recording a lot of my repertoire. I will share some of it here. Any feedback / praise / criticism is greatly appreciated. http://tindeck.com/album/itysx edit: obsolete links replaced with entire ablum CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 9, 2012 06:07
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Truth be told, as low as is absolutely needed to not sacrifice accuracy. We all want to play things up to speed as soon as possible so we can make the music which is the rewarding part. Making the music incredibly accurate is far more rewarding, and you'll be much happier with it in the end (such as if you're me and you hate your playing unless it's nearly perfect). Sometimes this will be ultra slow, 25% of hands separate speed. But it depends on what you are playing. For Bach's Two-Part Inventions (which can't be recommended enough for developing skill with both hands) you will likely need to go at less than 50% of what you can play hands separately, and you want to acquire almost all of your technique hands separately. Play at ultra fast speeds hands separately first to work out all of the optimal and economical motions, then put it together super slow. With practice though, your hands will start doing what they did on their own automatically! Then you can start to speed it up more and more, but never sacrifice accuracy. Also, one more minor note - sometimes when the hands are playing together, a few problems can pop up that aren't apparent hands separately. It's always fine to play through the piece super slow hands together with no regard for accuracy at all, just to find these areas and keep them in mind when you practice hands separately. edit: I will shamelessly plug the F Minor invention I posted earlier - in this piece I feel I do a pretty good job bringing out the different hands at different times. http://tindeck.com/listen/kusd I will describe my practice technique for this one here. I've been learning this piece since roughly a year ago, very on and off, but I pretty much had it learned in one month after starting it August last year. I also learned the D minor and F Major inventions (which took me about a 1-2 weeks each) before this one so I had some experience with them. First I learned each hand separately until I could play them at 150% of my planned final tempo (final tempo around 40, so 60 hands separately). Then when I could do that, I put it hands together, one bar at a time. For note combinations that were difficult, I focused on these way more than what was easy. I noticed when putting them hands together that a few parts weren't quite right - that's because sometimes Bach pieces 'cross manuals', aka the parts are made for playing on two manuals or two keyboards! Some older keyboards like harpsichords have two keyboards, one on top of the other. This means that sometimes the two hands end on the same note, or one hand plays a note awkwardly right after the other hand does. This means the hands get tangled a bit, so practicing it hands separately is never quite perfect in these few areas - I had to work it out hands together before practicing it, and then I kept this in mind as I continued to practice hands separately. I always practiced hands separately much more than hands together, because I find that doing this does something like 80% of the work of doing it hands together - when putting stuff hands together, my hands already start doing what they did separately automatically! I attribute this to doing some of these inventions. Once I had the piece technically correct (accurate rhythm, notes, articulation, rough dynamics), then the fun part came - personalizing the music. This included deciding when to bring out each hand, deciding on my own dynamics, modifying the articulation, etc. I've been working on making it more and more expressive ever since, playing it from time to time. The notes, rhythm, and so on are hardwired and I do not focus on them at all while playing - just making music. This piece also has a few ornaments, which are tricky little things that require lots of individual repetition. That's been my practice for this piece for the past 8 months - playing it expressively from time to time, and practicing the ornaments. This piece is the one I plan to play for a music audition in the fall. edit numero dos: obsolete link updated CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 9, 2012 20:07
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Blog Free or Die posted:Besides that, I've been playing through the well-tempered clavier the last two weeks. So many great pieces; too bad some of my favorites are in F# major or C#, which don't lead themselves well to sightreading. I just recently got the Alfred Edition of the Well-Tempered Clavier, Volume 1. It feels like I've discovered a treasure chest of music. The amount of effort the authors put in to researching and preparing this addition is astounding - it must be the best edition ever written. It includes a lengthy introduction explaining how they combined different sources and every single piece includes tons of notes about conflicts in the sources. There are also lengthy explanations of the Fugue and every ornament imaginable. I am currently learning the C Minor Prelude and will eventually try the fugue. The C Minor Prelude just sounds badass - a torrent of notes like rushing water or some irresistible wildfire. For a wonderful interpretation of both volumes, Sviatoslav Richter's album is probably the best. The name of the Album is Bach: Das Wohltemperierte Klavier 1. und 2. Teil - BWV 846-869 und 870-893. His C Minor Prelude is just stunning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAEhX4lQLNg
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Aug 10, 2012 21:31
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Haggins posted:I don't know dick about playing music but I do really enjoy listening classic and jazz piano and I've always wanted to learn to play. It's hard to learn on your own, but doable. Just off of what I've heard, the Alfred learning books are supposed to be pretty good for self-teaching. The improvement is slow as you work through them, but you make progress bit by bit which is always the best way when you are on your own. There are other self-teaching books out there, but it can be very hit and miss. If you have a local community college, you might see if their music department is any good. You might find it to be a good deal to take a class there - some instruction and potentially access to good pianos to practice on for a low cost per unit. For me, a group class for a semester is less than $100 a semester all expenses included and I get a group class two days a week, plus access to their practice rooms which have uprights and baby grands until 9:00pm at night on weekdays. The community college might also be a place to look for inexpensive lessons. I met an old face from high school there who offered me amateur / intermediate lessons for a very low rate.
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Aug 10, 2012 21:38
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buildmorefarms posted:Not looking to push any technical boundaries - I just want a few pieces I can work on at my leisure that'll give me some pleasure/accomplishment. These are still probably too easy, but I really love these: http://www.amazon.com/Lyric-Prelude...ock+24+preludes http://tindeck.com/listen/qeis - Forest Murmurs, William Gillock http://tindeck.com/listen/rpmp - Seascape, William Gillock 24 lyrical preludes in the romantic style. The two above are the C Major and C Minor prelude, performed by myself. Also, once again, Alfred's edition of WTC Volume 1. A universe of enjoyment. Have you tried Jazz, Blues, or even Rock? I'm just getting into it myself, and seems perfect for enjoyable playing without worrying about the technical nightmares of hardcore classical. edit: obsolete links replaced CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 11, 2012 10:14
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Annies Boobs posted:That interpretation is uh.... a bit ridiculous 0_o Much too fast IMO and that of my professors/peers. Welcome back. Yes, this one is quite fast, and many of his performances in this album are unnecessarily fast, but not this one. This one is just perfect. I've never heard Concerto #20 (how many are there? I have probably only heard 2-3). Good luck man.
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Aug 16, 2012 17:06
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Welp I am super happy, I got accepted into the Applied Music Program at my local CC. Going to be super busy with it - 6 hours of required practice a week on campus, a private lesson and performance class every week, plus group piano class and a lesson off campus. Today I was doing music (mostly) from 9am to 9pm! Also going to be working on like 5 pieces at once but I'm sure I'll get used to that quickly. Looking forward to the following repertoire: Prelude and Fugue in C Minor, WTC Book 1 Prelude and Fugue in B-flat Major, WTC Book 1 Prelude in G, WTC Book 2 Mozart Fantasia in D Minor Chopin Prelude in e minor :]
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Aug 29, 2012 06:49
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Jesus H. Christ posted:Hi, guys. I've got a silly little keyboard question to ask, concerning this fella: For the songs you mentioned it won't be an issue. With classical, it may or may not be an issue depending on what you are playing, but generally the higher the level the greater the chance you'll need something more. For the vast majority of pieces, most notes lower in the register than C2 (two C's below Middle C, which is the limit of this keyboard) would be part of low octaves so you can always leave the lower note out.
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Sep 6, 2012 06:01
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Performed for the applied class today, and learned a lot. Performance is nothing like practice, but then it's everything like practice! If your practice habits are crystal clean, then your performance will almost certainly be. Luckily I had mine recorded and I remembered my mistakes, and I could tell that the troubles I experienced in practice became real (or a few of them did) in live performance. On the other hand, there really isn't anything that will get you comfortable performing except more performing. The pressure and adrenaline can induce errors that you can't predict from your practice. Still, I learned that as much as I've improved my practice habits over the past year of getting serious, I need to make them even better. I need to do it the right way every time, for hours, and never mess around, or else it's leaving too much to chance. The only sure defense is for your practice to be just insanely perfect. That, and performing as much as possible.
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Sep 19, 2012 06:43
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I'm just getting into Jazz as well, and the first 3 pieces I've had to work on are Freddie the Freeloader by Miles Davis, Sunday Morning by Maroon 5, and 500 miles high by Chick Corea. Freddie the Freeloader is a jazz classic and contains just a few simple chord progressions with a simple baseline. Sunday Morning just has 3 chords (well 5 counting a couple at the end), and a simple piano solo. 500 miles high is a bit harder, with a chord progression 7 or 8 chords long and some tricky rhythms best learned by hearing them. Of course, I'm not sure if the arrangements I have are like the ones you will find. If not then the chord progressions are here: Freddie: Bb7, Eb7, Bb7, F7, Eb7, Ab7 Sunday: Dm9, G9, Cmaj9 (towards the end, a couple: g5, Cdim) 500 miles high: Em7, Gm7, Bmaj7, Bm7(b5), E7(#9), Am7, F#m7(b5), Fm7, Cm11, B7(#5) By the way, Cm11 is the most chill sounding chord I've ever heard. It's like you're up there on those clouds, wearing sunglasses and sipping lemonade. One way to play it is to play G, Bb, Eb, and F at the same time.
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Nov 1, 2012 03:13
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I have a question for any advanced players in here. My question regards technique in general. When learning to play difficult material, I find it's easy to get caught up in meta-learning stuff like, am I relaxed enough, or am I being efficient enough, or am I using the best fingering for reaching fast speeds, etc. I feel like all of this stuff adds a lot of baggage and uses up a lot of unnecessary brain processing time. I also feel like it adds some big psychomatic barriers to just practicing at the speed you are trying to reach and just repeating things over and over. I often sometimes wonder if I shouldn't just ditch this mindset altogether and practice 'intuitively', aka play whatever I want at whatever speed I want, and not give a crap about bad habits forming. I feel like I trust my intuitive judgement enough to know when something isn't working well and change it. I just find it so hard to consciously think all the time in practice, to the point where it's actually counter-productive. And if this is just naturally how I am, what's the point of trying to change a learning style that my brain just isn't compatible with? My experience so far with technique has been that the most important thing is time, repetition, and thinking only in a primitive way about making adjustments to what you are doing. Nothing else seems to make much of a difference. Engaging in conscious analysis of everything you are doing is tiring and is counter-productive to the point of diminishing returns. Just feeling it sometimes feels like the smartest way to go. There's another student in a class of mine who is your typical player with little or no discipline. He just plays whatever he feels like and usually at fast tempos. His instructors have been constantly cautioning him against his practice style and he seems like the prime candidate for learning a bunch of terrible habits. Also, for a long time the pieces he played at those fast tempos were full of audible mistakes and pauses. But then something kind of funny happened. Sure enough, over time his pieces became cleaner and cleaner, until there are maybe just a few mistakes or no mistakes at all when he's playing them at blistering speeds. He is also obviously smart enough to think about the music as well. So I was asking myself - why not just let this guy, or myself, be? Learn the way we want to learn - the only thing that matters is the results.
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Nov 20, 2012 06:02
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Annies Boobs posted:advice Thanks - I guess it's just been hard to consciously think about stuff because I've been so tired. Also I seem to get such limited results in the short term thinking about what I'm doing - before long I've lost whatever it was I was trying to accomplish in that moment and go back to playing whatever passage over and over, worried I won't have it up to tempo in time. I'm just naturally very bad at staying focused. The way I normally do things is a bit like bizarro-learning - my brain more or less shuts off and I just do what comes naturally. I do sort of 'think' about what I am doing and correct what I am doing on the fly as I work, but it's almost completely subconscious. If I try to stop and really think, I get lost. If results are what matter, I am not very happy with my results, but I've also been told they are very good for my age and time playing so far. But it's not where I want it to be and it's hard to judge whether that is because I haven't been playing long enough or because my practice is bad. I also don't necessarily trust most people when they comment on my playing. For example, I just performed J.S. Bach's C Minor Prelude from the WTC Book 1 tonight. In total, I've been playing 'seriously' for less than 2 years, and with focused practice for a little over a year. I've probably practiced this piece around 10-20 hours total. I'm also an adult learner, starting focused practice when I was 25 years old. This piece gives me a great deal of trouble - I can play the opening only at a slow tempo and the presto part a bit faster, but slow as well to avoid major errors. All I can say at this point is that I've learned the notes, and can play them accurately most of the time as long as the tempo is slow. I'm also very good at 'faking it' and making things sound better than they really are, but is this about right or should I be making faster progress? How do you tell if your progress is normal or if you're practice habits need improving? Sorry for more interrogation
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Nov 21, 2012 04:36
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 13:51 |
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Annies Boobs posted:I don't know how you could "fake it". If I hear you playing bad, you're playing bad. There's no faking solo piano repertoire. Hah, indeed. I guess it's more about the gulf between 'hitting the right notes' and sounding good. The former I suppose is simply mediocrity, as opposed to being bad. I'm somewhere in that area. Also, the difference between your average uncritical audience, and your instructor or another student quote:I didn't learn the c minor prelude & fugue until I was 16. I started playing at 8. So take that as you like? Thank you, that's very helpful.
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Nov 21, 2012 07:53
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