BASS MEGATHREAD: Beginners, welcome to my ass!

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Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Welcome to the Musician's Lounge Bass Megathread. Here we discuss all things bass -- electric, double, fretless, four strings, five strings (or more!), buying advice, practice routines, and more. While this thread is open to both beginning and experienced players, this post is aimed at getting beginners "in the groove."

All information/advice was taken directly from this thread.

I want to play bass! What bass should I get?
While there are many excellent candidates for beginner bass guitars, these three are the most recommended:

Fender Standard Jazz Bass. ~$500 US

Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass. ~$300 US

Ibanez GSR200 Bass. ~$200 US

The best way to decide on a bass guitar is to head over to your nearest music store and try out a bunch. Pay specific attention to how comfortable a bass guitar feels when you play it (even if you can't play anything yet). A friendly employee can help you get set up.

What's the difference between Precision and Jazz basses?
All you really need to know (for now):

Captain Organ posted:

The only real tangible difference between the two until you start really developing a unique sound (which is nothing you need to worry about anytime soon) is the neck size and shape. P-basses are (generally) thicker, with wider spaced strings, and j basses are (generally) slimmer and with less heft in the neck. At least with fender models.

PenguinBob offers a more detailed explanation:

PenguinBob posted:

The J has two single-coil pickups, generally wound in opposite directions so that they act as a humbucker when they're at the same volume. If you favor one pickup (most favor the bridge, I think), expect to hear some 60-cycle hum. The bridge pickup has a punchy, upper-mid-heavy tone that really cuts through, especially if you play near the bridge. The neck pickup has a deeper, more mellow tone, especially if you play farther from the bridge, and it has a kind of hollow sound with the tone knob turned up. You'll hear J-basses on tracks by Jaco Pastorius / Weather Report, Audioslave and RATM, later Rush stuff, the Strokes, Sly and the Family Stone, The Dead Kennedies, Newsted-era Voivod / Metallica (Sadowskys are pretty much Fenders on steroids), way the hell too many to name.

The P has a split-coil humbucker. It sounds similar to the neck pickup of the J-bass, IMO, only deeper and without the weird hollowness with the tone turned up. It's been around forever and has been used in every genre. P-bass players include Steve Harris of Iron Maiden, George Porter Jr. of the Meters, James Jamerson from the Motown studio band, Roger Waters, Peter Hook of Joy Division / New Order, Sting, that shithead from Fallout Boy, and pretty much every punk / pop-punk bassist or session recording bassist ever.

Where can I get the best deals on basses?
Sites like Musician's Friend and Zzounds have ongoing deals on brand new bass guitars and amplifiers.

You'll get the best bang for your buck by buying equipment used. Check places like craigslist, TalkBass (International), or SA-Mart early and often for amazing deals. Sometimes you can find high-quality equipment at budget quality prices.

Can I use my guitar amplifier to power my bass?
Unless you keep the volume and bass EQ very low, playing bass on a standard guitar amp will blow its speakers. Get an amp specifically designed for electric bass guitars.

Okay, but can I use my bass amplifier to power my guitar?
Yes! You're obviously going to get a deeper tone than if you used a guitar amp (this can be mitigated by adjusting the levels). Some guitarists prefer to use a bass amp; go figure!

Okay, what amplifier should I buy?
Again, this comes down to personal preference. Look for deals online, check reviews and visit stores.

If you don't anticipate playing with other musicians for a while, you'll probably be fine with a 10-20 watt practice amp. Be wary of sub-$50 practice amps, which tend to sound like poo poo and might break unexpectedly. If money is not a huge issue and you like effects, consider buying this:

Roland Micro Cube Bass RX Amplifier. ~$200 US

However, chances are you'll want to rock out with other musicians as soon as possible, in which case you should buy an amp suitable for group playing (200 watts or more).

What's the difference between tube and solid state amplifiers?
RocketPriest offers both short and long answers:

RocketPriest posted:

Solid state = cheap clean power, less tone coloration, lighter amps. Tubes = character, warmth, smooth break-up and a lot of other nebulous words that make tone-crafters salivate - they're also big and VERY HEAVY.

RocketPriest posted:

Tubes, tubes, tubes, tubes, TUBES! Oh, except if you want reliability, sub-50hz definition, and something that isn't two feet wide and weighs 90 pounds.

Still, the drawbacks pale in comparison to the sheer awesomeness that is the Sadowski SA200, Orange AD-200B and the Ampeg SVT, SVT Classic, and 80's Skunkwork SVT's. The thing about bass tube amps, as opposed to guitar tube amps is that to make bass audible and defined at similar volumes to guitar, you need multiple times the wattage. An 800-1000w solid state bass amp competes with a cranked 100w tube guitar amp. In tube amps, this calls for extra tubes, and extra hardware, extra space in the case, larger heatsinks, and all manner of other fun hardwood and metal bits that add up to a lot of weight. Not that tube guitar amps are especially light either (my Lonestar weighs a TON). The other thing about tube bass amps, and the reason you don't see them more often, besides costing many times what a comparable solid state amp does ("$2k for 300 watts? I got a 300w GK for $400" ), is note definition. (WARNING: Possibly incorrect explanation ahead) Tube guitar amps are prized for thier natural break-up as their tubes can be saturated far beyond the 100w rating, which is why even a 15w tube amp can be earbleedingly loud. Following this same principle a 300w bass amp like an SVT is enough to fill a stadium with bass sound when it's cranked - but this will produce an almost John Entwhistle level of break-up (think Jack Bruce in Cream for a good 'pushed' tube amp tone). Most bass players don't want break-up. Most of us spend our entire careers putting together massive rigs, pushing our headroom into the sky with 1-3kw of power for ultimate clarity at any volume. A tube amp is this philosophy's antithesis. It is also a much more beautiful and natural sound to my ears.

Of course, I'm talking about a tube power section. I'm not going to bother talking about 'hybrid' amps that use a tube pre-amp mated to a solid state power section. As far as I'm concerned they don't cut it for either camp. I want the pure crispness of my 1000w solid state amp, or I want to be blasting classic rock mojo out my speakers using 90 pounds of tubes. Personally, I just make sure my options are always open - my solid state amp is built into my speaker enclosure and my SVT rests on top of it, so I can simply swap three cables and switch at my whim. The biggest difference in sound between a solid state amp and a tube amp is the coloration of your bass' tone. If you want pure transparency and the tone coming from your bass is already the absolute perfect tone and must be heard unadulterated, a good solid state amp is exactly what you're after. A good tube amp will lather 'character' all over your tone, sneaking it into places you weren't aware that 'character' was even allowed to be. This can be good and bad. It can fool you into thinking you sound better than you do, when the amp is really just filling in a few cracks. See, much like good tube guitar amps, good tube bass amps will make a bad player sound quite a bit better, and a good player sound like a professional recording artist. Nashville session players do not need tube amps to make them sound amazing, they are purely by virtue of training/skill/environmental pressure - us Cali rockers? We need some help. Except guys like Jean Baudin, 'cause gently caress him for being so good.

The action on my bass sucks! How can I fix it?

scuz posted:

Here's a crash-course on setting up your action on your bass!

What you will need:

Tuner

Set of allen wrenches/hex keys

6-inch ruler (sorta optional, but I'm a nerd so I have one)

About an hour if you wanna do it right
General dos and don'ts

DO have a tuner and all your tools ready

DO have a place set aside for this like a workbench (you'll be able to do any adjustments on the fly once you've done it enough

DO leave the strings on your bass

DON'T rush anything

DON'T ignore any noises your instrument makes when doing a setup, although small amounts of creaking will be normal

DON'T listen to people who tell you your action is too high or low if it suits you.

Step One: wtf is wrong with it in the first place?

Fret buzz can be the product of any number of things that have gone wrong with your bass, but quite often it's lack of relief in the neck. Oh, a new word! Relief is how much or how little the neck is "bowing" under the tension of the strings. If your bass neck has no relief, it is dead flat. If it has some relief, the strings will come up off of the frets a bit and the neck will "bow" inwards. What's an easy way to tell if the bass neck has no relief? Fret the string at the 3rd and 12th frets at the same time, and use your 6-inch ruler (or your eyeball) to see if there is any space between the string and the frets; lots of space = lots of relief; strings-resting-on-the-frets = zero relief. Now this is not the only thing that will create fret buzz, but a little bit of relief in the neck can do wonders, and it's very simple to adjust (we'll get to that in a bit). Another easy fix to eliminate fret buzz is to adjust the bridge saddle height. The saddles are those things on the bridge with the screws in them that the strings rest on that can be adjusted up or down. See where this is going? Oh good! Now that you've diagnosed the problem, it's time for the next step.

Step Two: how to fix!

Please note that it's almost never just one or the other, but a combination of both neck relief and saddle height that causes that buzzing noise you hate so much. So just because you've raised the bridge doesn't mean that you're entirely out of the woods. I always raise the bridge first because I don't like loving around with the neck of the bass.

Fixing too little relief in the neck, is very simple! What you will be adjusting is the truss rod in the neck of your bass. To adjust it, you'll need to determine what size allen key/hex wrench you will need (some are adjusted using a flathead screwdriver, also), and you will also need to gain access to it. Most basses have their truss rod access on the headstock (it's that hole thing) or at the base of the neck. If you want more relief, loosen the truss rod (turn it to the left), and if you want less relief, tighten the truss rod (turn it to the right). I have a rule where I do not adjust any more than a quarter turn at a time. My process is quarter turn, re-tune, WAIT, assess. The waiting is very important and is not to be left out. The neck needs time to bend to the will of its truss rod overlord and will not always do so immediately.

Adjusting the bridge saddle height is ALSO very easy and should be very straight-forward, but we'll just walk you through that while we're here. Take a quick glance at the top of your bass looking down the fret board. See how the fretboard is sorta rounded? You want each string to be the same distance off of the fretboard, so not in a straight line across (that means that the E and G string are further off the board than the A and D strings). Take whichever string is too low or too high and lower or raise its saddle. Done!

Step Three: or, oh god now it's out of tune a lot halllllp

Intonation is a pretty important thing, and setting up a bass can gently caress with that somewhat, especially if you had to do a lot of saddle height adjustment. I personally don't know if my bass has proper intonation because I rarely go above the 9th fret on my bass (I'm a pleb, I know, hush), and that is where improper intonation is most noticeable.

To find out if your bass is well-tuned, tune an open string, then tune it again but when you're fretting on the 12th fret. It should be the same note, right? Maybe not! If it's flat, extend the saddle (adjust the saddle's screw so that it moves away from the bottom of the bridge), if it's sharp, shorten the saddle. Ta-da!

I probably hosed up a few things here, but it says "Crash course" right on top. I've been doing it this way for a long time and any bass that I've had has done its job just fine.

What should I be practicing?

Ben and Stew posted:

As far as practicing goes, learning scales, progressions, and proper fingering/picking/slapping technique are all important. But also, jam out to your favorite tracks. This will allow you to develop a groove (probably the most important aspect of bass) and a feel for the genres you like, since your favorite music often dictates what kind of stuff you'll end up playing. In addition to tracks you like, go out there and listen/learn styles that you would never seek out normally. In my opinion, a versatile bass player is a good bass player and the fact that you can play many styles will mean that more people are willing to play with you. Lastly, metronome metronome metronome. With bass, rhythm the most important aspect, even more than the notes you play.

Ben and Stew posted:

if I have but one piece of advice to guide you into bass excellence for the rest of your life this is it: it doesn't matter if you can play Teen Town with one hand, Tommy the Cat with your feet, or Classical Thump with your dick, if you can't make a groove or at least play in tune at nearly any tempo in any key for whatever style you fall into, then your playing will never amount to anything worthwhile.

Schatten posted:

Metronome. Metronome. Metronome. Speed isn't as important as being on time. Keep at it, just like in any sport or skill, take it slow and get it right before taking it at full speed.

RocketPriest posted:

Looseness, regimented practice, and positive thinking will do a million and one things for your fretting technique, seriously. Another fun thing to do while going back to basics: Watching your plucking hand to see if you're alternating fingers smoothly (unless you play with a pick, but there's plenty to work on with that, too). Just remember to practice amplified as often as possible, there's so much random noise that can sneak into your playing that you won't be aware of if you just practice unplugged. Hell, I'm aware of all that poo poo, and it all snuck back into my playing after practicing unplugged for so long (I hate my practice amp so much that I just don't bother with it anymore, I really need a new one). Just remember to not be all doom and gloom about technique/ability/whatever - that's often a bigger hinderence than actualy physical issues. Think positive, you CAN do ____.

What are some good practice routines?

Ericadia posted:

I haven't seen much talk about exercises in this thread, so I'm going to go ahead and throw out the "spider" exercise:

1. Place all four fingers of your left hand on adjacent frets on the D string (I recommend starting on the 12th fret).
2. Without lifting any other finger off the string, move your index finger up to the G string. Next (still without lifting any other finger, including the index finger) move your middle finger up to the G string, and then repeat with your ring and pinky fingers.
3. Now try going from the G back down to the D string (same order, index finger first)

Eventually you should be able to start on the E string and climb all the way up to the G string and back down again. This exercise is great for building finger strength. I recommend moving your fingers in time with a metronome (100-200bpm), and if you want a little more challenge, pluck the two strings your fingers are on (alternating) with your right hand.

Most people find that going up one string with the ring finger is the most difficult part of this exercise, so don't be discouraged if the ring finger gives you trouble.

RocketPriest posted:

The pinky is a bastard, and needs a lot more work than the other three fingers. My pinky behaved pretty much the same way you described when I first started playing too. What will help is to very slowly move through 4 note per string patterns - not scales, just fret four consecutive notes. Start by just fretting each note at the same time, so you're just holding the string down with all four fingers, each of which is resting on a separate fret. Then start running patterns (1 is index finger, two is middle finger, etc): 1234, 2341, 3412, etc. Move these patterns across the strings slowly, paying close attention to what each finger is doing. When you mess up, don't get frustrated (this will make you tighten/change your grip and added tension is BAD), just fix the error. Telling your hand out loud 'no, not that way, THIS way' is corny, but will actually help you fix mistakes faster. Just makes these exercises part of your early practice/warm-up routine. Eventually you will build pinky dexterity and you'll find that your accuracy and fluidity will improve. I recommend making it an integral part of your warm-up for two reasons: One, since it's part of your warm-up, you'll do it. And two, if you don't already, it will be incentive to warm up, which you should be doing, drat it.

Pick or no pick?
Playing with a pick gives an "edgier" tone and is (theoretically) faster than playing with your fingers. However, both styles are equally valid and choosing one or the other depends largely on your desired sound.

Scarf offers an excellent primer on the three major playing styles (fingering, picking, and slapping):

Scarf posted:

I'll try and keep this somewhat brief, but there are entire books written on sounding technique alone...

Generally speaking there are three major/basic techniques for sounding the notes on a bass guitar: Finger-picking (Fingering, plucking, finger-style, etc.), Flat-Picking (Picking, pick-style), Slapping (Slap and pop, thumping, etc.).

Finger-picking/Plucking
In my opinion, finger-picking is by far the most common and most versatile method for sounding notes on a bass guitar. This technique involves a player using their fingers to pluck the string along the playing surface, generally thought of being between the bridge and where the neck joins the body of the instrument. This is most commonly done with the index and middle fingers, however there are several notable players who make use of their ring-fingers and thumbs to pluck notes as well. The pinky is sometimes used if sounding a chord or performing finger-picking more closely related to what you would see on a guitar.

This technique has its roots in the pizzicato technique often used for orchestral stringed instruments to produce a short, more percussive sound than that generated by using a bow. It became more common among bassists during the early bluegrass and jazz eras, where the upright bass not only covered the lower register of notes in the music but took on more of a rhythmic role in terms of the actual time-keeping and tempo.

However, with the development of the modern electric bass guitar, notes that are sounded through finger-picking are no longer limited to being short, or even percussive. The sustain of the note, as well as the attack (percussiveness) can vary depending on a number of factors when it comes to finger-picking, hence the versatility of the technique. By using the very tips of the fingers to pluck the strings, you can get a much more pronounced and almost percussive sound. On the other hand, if you use the pads if your fingers, a much mellower/smoother sound is achieved. I've found the smoothest (albeit less defined) sound comes from plucking with the pad of the thumb. However, famous punk bassist Mike Watt developed a technique which he called the "flipper," using the pads of all 4 fingers at once to get an even smoother, more mellow sound.

This is also dependent on where you pluck the strings along the playing area. The strings get tighter closer to the bridge, so plucking there will result in a tighter, almost thinner sound. Whereas plucking closer to the neck where the strings are looser will result in a looser, less-defined but more full sound.

Combine these two concepts (finger placement and finger technique) can give you a multitude of different tones. For example, if you want a classic reggae tone with virtually no definition to it (aside from any kind of EQ adjustments on the electronics) try plucking with the pad of your thumb up close to the neck joint. The complete opposite of that would be more modern jazz and pop sound produced by using the finger tips near the bridge.

Flat-Picking/Picking
Picking on the bass guitar likely came about as a result of many guitarists giving the instrument a shot and just being much more comfortable with a pick. Picking results in a much clearer, more distinctive note than with finger-picking. While not as versatile as finger-picking, you can still get a wide range of tones from picking. Again this will depend on where you pick in the playing area, but the type of string, the type of pick, and the amount of force with which you pick will also have an impact.

Picking with roundwound strings will produce a very bright, and sometimes "twangy" sound with lots of overtones whereas picking with flatwound strings will result in more of a "plunk." And again, picking near the neck will result in a less defined sound, while picking near the bridge will give an almost piano-like clarity to the notes. Using a pick also allows the player easier access to their palm for muting purposes. This can be used to almost immediately silence a note after its been sounded, or to produce an even more "plunky" sound by muting and picking at the same time.

Picking is commonly used in rock, hardrock, metal, and punk genres due the very bright, and grinding like sound you can get from picking forcefully, especially on basses equipped with humbucking pickups, like a P-bass. But that isn't to say that picking is limited to these styles of music. Notable bass players who have been known to make use of a pick at one time or another include: Paul McCartney (Beatles), Allen Woody (Gov't Mule, Allman Bros.), George Porter Jr. (The Meters), John Entwistle (The Who), Phil Lynott (Thin Lizzy), Phil Lesh (Grateful Dead), Mike Gordon (Phish), Chris Squire (Yes), Rick Danko (The Band), John Paul Jones (Led Zeppelin), and the list goes on.

Slap/Pop/Thump
While slap bass has roots in the upright bass world to the early days of jazz, slap bass in terms of the electric bass guitar (originally referred to as "Thumping" in the 70s) and its creation is usually attributed to Larry Graham of Sly and the Family Stone and later Graham Central Station in the 1970s. Graham has stated several times that he was trying to emulate the sound of a drum before the band had found its drummer.

Slap bass is an incredibly percussive style of playing and heavily based on rhythm. It involves essentially two techniques, the slap and the pop. The slap is typically using the thumb of the sounding hand to strike the desired string (usually around where the body meets the neck), causing it to hit the fretboard, thus resulting in a very defined and percussive sound. The "pop" involves using a finger to pluck a string forcefully from underneath and releasing it, causing it to, again, strike the fretboard. The two are used in conjunction with each other, usually in sequences and successions to produce almost drum-like rhythms on the bass. I like to think about it like a drumkit... the Slap is usually a hit on the kick-drum, where the Pop is more like a snare hit. There are also more advanced techniques to slapping such as Double-Thumping, and the ability to do multiple-pops in succession using several fingers.

Slap bass is commonly seen in more modern funk, funk-rock, and some jazz fusion. It has even found its way into some metal and hard rock.

Notable slap players include: Larry Graham, Marcus Miller, Stanley Clarke, Les Claypool, Flea, Victor Wooten, etc.

What about tabs?
Tabs are useful for quickly learning how to play a song, but you should avoid using them if possible. Juagico elaborates:

Juagico posted:

I think that tabs are almost completely useless except for the most basic songs. I recommend trying to learn songs by ear. It will be very difficult at first, and you probably won't understand the relationships between the notes, but eventually you'll start to recognize patterns and how they fit together, especially if you read up on

Start by identifying the most fundamental notes in a song. If you can figure out what key something is in and combine that with a basic scale like the pentatonic, a lot of stuff will just fall into place. Tabs can certainly be useful, but I see them as training wheels- you don't want to rely on them for too long.

Should I get a teacher?

Scarf posted:

It really just depends on your teacher, there are basically two types... those who will teach you theory and proper technique, and those who will just teach you to play whatever songs you want to learn. Definitely go with the former.

Books
Here are a few recommended reads:

Hal Leonard Bass Method: Complete Edition by Ed Friedland. Three books in one. Covers nearly every aspect of the instrument using exercises from a variety of genres. It uses real musical notation, which is great if you want to learn how to read music (which you should).

Bass Fitness: An Exercising Handbook by Josquin Des Pres. A terrific workbook of 200 exercises designed to increase your speed, improve your dexterity, develop accuracy and promote finger independence.

EADG4. Theory Textbook for the Bass Guitar by John Falstrom. A dense but comprehensive bass-specific music theory textbook.

Online
Communities
TalkBass. Very active online community with many topics of interest (see their beginner thread for links to topics).
ActiveBass. Online community with free lessons.

Lessons
Wheat's BassBook. A comprehensive learning resource with an emphasis on method and theory.
StudyBass A free online course by Andrew Pouska with an emphasis on theory and improvisation.

Miscellaneous
TuneMyBass. Great resource for technical help regarding maintaining your bass, amplifiers, and more.
BassBooks. Great for finding and reading reviews about practically every book ever written about the bass guitar.
BassMasta. Tabs (for when you need them).
Metronome Online. A free browser-based metronome (never practice without one).

-----------------------------
A special thanks goes out to all those who took the time to help newbies like myself learn to love this instrument.

Please let me know (either in the thread or via PM) if you think something in this post should be added or changed.

Stand by for slightly-out-of-context responses to my previous bass purchasing quandaries!

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Apr 18, 2010

# ¿ Dec 12, 2007 18:14

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 18:42

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

3toes posted:

Do you only want to spend $300 for bass AND an amp?

Good point, I completely forgot about amps.

I understand that they make amps specifically for bass, but would it be possible to start out with using my guitar's amp? I realize that the sound won't be nearly as good as it could be (doesn't it take significantly more power to amplify a bass properly?). If this simply isn't viable, I suppose I will need to invest in a bass amp, in which case I'm willing to spend some more money. I'll be needing recommendations for that too.

As for what I'm into playing, it really goes across the spectrum. I'd like to try my hand at slap, but I also am interested in melodic playing as well. I will say that I think Les Claypool is amazing, but I'm not entirely sure I want to completely imitate his style either.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2007 18:30

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Agreed posted:

The low frequencies and high amplitudes that bass pickups output can blow guitar amp speakers, even at what seems like reasonable volumes. It is worth it to invest in a used bass amp if you're going to try your hand at bass.

Ah, I feared that would be the situation. Any recommendations? I'd just need a small practice-sized amp to start off.

Also, are there any specific places I should be looking for used gear? Since I'll want someone to check the stuff out before I buy it, I'm assuming eBay and Craigslist would be a no-no.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2007 18:41

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Wow, you guys have been extremely helpful so far. Thank you so much!

Going along the lines of practice, I've actually been looking for ways to expand my guitar practice as well. So far I've just been going through scales to metronomes and working on technique exercises like trills. I'd like to explore more aspects of the instrument in my free-time however, and since I'll probably be getting a bass as well, are there any sort of practice regimes you guys would recommend for both instruments? Stuff like complementary exercises, etc.

Also, that Behringer bass looks great, Agreed, but others are recommending I spend significantly less ($50 range). Would you say the increase in sound quality justifies the higher price tag?

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 12, 2007

# ¿ Dec 12, 2007 18:54

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

So I just realized that J and P actually stand for kinds of basses and not just model names, so now I'm going to need to decide between Jazz and Precision. Based on Wikipedia research, it seems like Jazz Basses have a brighter tone, richer midranges, and less emphasis on the fundamental harmonic, making them suitable for "power trios". Unfortunately, my limited musical experience makes these descriptions sound vague and unclear, so I'm counting on you guys to set things straight. I understand that the Jazz bass has a fuller sound, but what else can you tell me about the two, such as appropriate genres/styles, that will help me decide?

# ¿ Dec 12, 2007 19:29

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

3toes posted:

I would disagree with the "Js have a fuller sound" thing as well as the mid-range part. I feel like the P-bass has more mid punch.

But the J is definitely more versatile and can do pretty much any genre.

What then, would be the benefits of a P-bass over a J-bass? Would it be suitable for larger group playing environments?

EDIT: Also, a friend is telling me he has heard that Mexican Fenders have lackluster bridges. Is this true?

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Dec 12, 2007

# ¿ Dec 12, 2007 19:38

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Agreed posted:

Well, for one thing, if you ever want to jam with friends you actually can. It isn't a knock-your-socks-off tone machine, but it is a surprisingly capable bass amp for the money. It is not just a practice amp, in other words - it'll make a lot of noise if you ask it to. For $100 more, that's saving a lot of money over getting a $50 practice amp that sounds like poo poo and farts on notes below 200hz. This amp will have no trouble playing anything a bass can make, shouldn't break unexpectedly (I have seen $50 no-name bass combo amps pop a speaker the first time you plug them in because it wasn't really designed for bass at all, just labeled for it), and if you ever want to do something more than just practice with it, you have the option - for only $100 more.

I can't bend your arm, but if I could I would - you'll like a capable bass amp a hell of a lot more than a cheesy practice rig, and the money is not going to hurt you if you can afford to get into music at all.

That's all the convincing I need.

I'm not terribly strapped for cash, I just wanted to make sure the extra money will be going towards more than just a slight improvement in sound. Sounds like it most certainly will be.

Agreed posted:

I disagree, their bridges are fine. You'll get better tone and more solid intonation if you replace it with a high end bridge, sure, but it'll work just fine in the meantime. And a good aftermarket bridge isn't very expensive, in the grand scheme of things - get a used Mexican bass and you can outfit it to American-made Fender bass standards for a third the cost. But keep an eye out for an old Peavey, I'm telling you - they're great!

The only reason I'm considering Fender over Peavey at the moment is that I've had good experience with Fender products before. I know it's hard to judge, but is there one that you, personally, would recommend over the other?

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Dec 12, 2007

# ¿ Dec 12, 2007 20:25

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Agreed posted:

It was really more of a suggestion to keep an eye out if you're in a music store, browsing the used stuff - don't turn it down just because it says Peavey, take it down and try it out next to the other things you're interested in and see how it holsd up.

There is nothing at all wrong with a used MIM Fender, they're probably the best and most consistently high quality deals in basses at all. They're great upgrade platforms that don't BEG to have all the hardware and electronics swapped for something new immediately upon purchase.

I can recommend a brand you've probably never heard of unless you've browsed the megathread here: https://www.rondomusic.net has a selection of Korean-made basses (Brice is the brand, avoid the lower brands like Douglas and SX as they're Chinese made and much lower quality in my experience, primarily felt in exponentially shittier electronics and hardware - still good wood and finishes, but you're not buying just wood if you want to play bass). Check them out, you might be able to get into a setup cheaper than you could otherwise. I've owned two SX basses, both of which suck a lot less than the one SX guitar I bought - it was terrible, they just needed pickup replacement to rock out for the cash. But the higher end brand, Brice for basses and Agile for guitars, are great examples of quality workmanship, parts, and even electronics on a budget. They compare favorably with, say, Schecter guitars and basses. Schecter is a much bigger brand, but they do the same thing - high quality woods, high quality finishes, high quality components, assembled in Korea and sold with the discount that allows... But Rondo will go twice as low as Schecter because they're not spending anything on advertising dollars.

You might just want to go with the Fender option since you've had good experiences with them already, and because someone is going to look at your headstock and recognize Fender and think "That cat's alright" sooner than they're going to react the same way to Brice... but at least check 'em out before you make up your mind.

Wow, that Brice actually looks very good. At first I was concerned by the lack of fret markings, but then I realized it's probably best I learn to play without them.

I think today or some time this week I'll head over to a few music shops in town and get a feel for the models I'm considering. Then I'll assess how I'll be purchasing from there. I'm still completely open to new suggestions, however, as well as practice suggestions, etc.

Thanks for your continued help!

EDIT: I am concerned that the Brice is a short-scale, though. I have pretty large hands so I don't think I'd have any problem with a 34", which, from what I'm hearing, have a "deeper" sound quality.

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 12, 2007

# ¿ Dec 12, 2007 21:23

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

So I just got back from two local music shops to check out the basses. They didn't have any Ibanezes or Peaveys, but the MIM Fender J and P I tried felt solid. I'd still like to keep an open mind though, so if anyone has other recommendations please let me know. That Brice is still in my mind but its length is causing some alarm.

As for amps, I'll probably go ahead and order the BX1800 recommended by Agreed, unless anyone else has any suggestions. It seems like a great deal for the price tag.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2007 00:52

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

So I perused around and found that I could get a MIM Fender J for just $450 with free shipping from Musician's Friend. This is probably the route I'll take since I haven't been able to find any used alternatives.

EDIT: Just to be sure, it's recommended that I go with a 4-string as opposed to a 5, right?

# ¿ Dec 13, 2007 05:03

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Captain Organ posted:

4 string. 5+ is for nerds

But I bought a pocket protector and everything!

Also, I'm still finding myself torn between the Jazz and Precision. I think I understand the sound difference now (thanks Penguin!), but I'm still not sure which one I want to start out with. My gut tells me Jazz since it seems to have a slightly fuller sound, but I keep hearing the Precision is great for harder rock/metal, which is what I'm mostly interested in playing. I suppose I should probably just go with a Jazz for now and then maybe down the road try out a Precision/something else if I still have an interest.

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Dec 13, 2007

# ¿ Dec 13, 2007 05:33

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Already guys, the order has been placed!

Behringer BX1800 Ultrabass Bass Combo Amplifier (180 Watts, 1x15 in.) - $199.99

Fender Standard Jazz Electric Bass (Rosewood) (New, Black) - $449.95

+ $3.99 S&H = $653.95 total

Not bad at all! Since I couldn't really find any viable used options, this seems like a great price for the complete bass+amp package. I want to thank all of you guys for helping me out with purchasing, but I still need help with learning the instrument! Please don't hesitate to send out any practice/maintenance/whatever tips you have.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2007 06:06

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

PenguinBob posted:

Oh, and I noticed that you said you admired Les Claypool, which is cool because he's quite good, but please please please please pleeeeeeease don't try and imitate him. It works in Primus because the band is built around him. If Les tried to play like that in most band settings, they'd throw his rear end out. Slapping is an effect and doesn't always fit. More often than not, it's completely inappropriate.

Don't worry, I just mentioned Claypool because I really admire him and his music; I don't intend to copy his style since I certainly wouldn't be doing any justice. I'm actually not super into slap style at the moment.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2007 06:12

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

PenguinBob posted:

Right on.

It may or may not need a setup. The Mexican factories had awful quality control for a while but I hear that it's gotten a lot better in the past few years.

And you're probably going to want some better strings than the stock ones. I recommend DR Lo-Riders or Hi-Beams. Unfortunately bass strings cost a whole hell of a lot more than guitar strings.

I'm not going to go crazy suggesting upgrades, since you just ordered it and there's no need. But I could, and I'm sorely tempted.

Please feel free! Who knows, maybe I'll want to upgrade soon after, or in the worst scenario, I'll check out this thread a year or so from now and see what people had to say.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2007 06:48

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Ben and Stew posted:

thegloaming, if I have but one piece of advice to guide you into bass excellence for the rest of your life this is it: it doesn't matter if you can play Teen Town with one hand, Tommy the Cat with your feet, or Classical Thump with your dick, if you can't make a groove or at least play in tune at nearly any tempo in any key for whatever style you fall into, then your playing will never amount to anything worthwhile.

This is what fascinates me so much about the bass; so much more emphasis is placed on the player's skill to keep a rhythm and to know the intricacies of the instrument than his ability to play popular alternative rock song X.

Also, ironically, I'm listening to Tommy the Cat as I post this. :O

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Dec 14, 2007

# ¿ Dec 14, 2007 02:47

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Hey guys! Just a little update:

The bass and amp arrived late on Monday in good condition - I even got a free gig bag! Unfortunately the action on the bass was way off, so I had to wait until Tuesday until my Dad could take a look at it. When he returned it to me, I found it much easier to play; of course there wasn't much I could play. I spent the next two days just fooling around, getting a feel for the instrument. Then on Thursday I decided it was time to start a proper practice regime, and I purchased this book/CD set:

Hal Leonard Bass Method: Complete Edition. It's three books/CDs in one and was highly recommended on Amazon by both teachers and new players. Here's the crazy part: there's practically no tabs! Every example and exercise is written in proper musical notation, which is a huge plus for me since I've been wanting to get back into theory. So far the book seems to be going at a great pace. On Thursday I spent about two hours just trying to get down alternating the index and middle fingers. Then on Friday and tonight I delved into the early lessons, working on raking and the first three notes on the E string so far.

Just now I totally wowed myself by sightreading an example piece I had never tried before and getting through it without any mistakes. I can already see that my practice has been paying off!

Practicing guitar simultaneously hasn't yet proven itself to be a problem. I'm going to have to condense the amount of time I spend on both instruments once school starts up again, but for now I've been able to consistently devote 3-4 hours a day to music. I love it.

Here's a pic for you guys:

Thanks again for all the help!

# ¿ Dec 23, 2007 05:16

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Wow, I was going to start a new thread about this but then I noticed that my old thread was still on the first page of ML. Glad other people have been able to put it to use!

Anyway, I've returned looking for recommendations for a good bass practice amp. I've recently moved and space has become a huge issue, so I've been keeping my big amp at my friend's house in his studio so that I don't have to lug it back and forth every time we want to play. However, I still would like to play with an amp at home, so here's my criteria:

- Practice amps only; I'll probably be using headphones mostly anyway, but I'll definitely be playing at a low, respectable volume when I'm using the speaker since I live with five other people.
- Size is a big issue. The smaller the better. I have very little space in my room as it as and I'd like to able to easily get to the amp when I want to without pulling it out and moving stuff around.
- I'd like to be able to listen to the music from my computer/iPod through the amp so that when I play along it's all coming from one source.
- Effects are nice, but I have pedals too so I'd consider them a nice bonus.

I don't have a price point set, but obviously if there are good deals out there I'd like to become aware of them. I'd appreciate any and all help finding something!

# ¿ Jul 26, 2008 21:41

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Schatten posted:

thegloaming - I have a few recommendations for you.

1) tascam mp3 bass trainer: http://www.google.com/products?q=ta...snum=1&ct=title

I think I picked mine up for about $140 on ebay.

2) if you want a small practice amp, I do have a small amp that is 100watts. It is an old early 80's Gallien Kreuger 200MB. I believe it is a 10". Has chorus, 4 band eq and compression. I need to part with it. The thing is small!

Thanks for the advice.

I've read a lot of negative reviews about the bass trainer and I really don't need any of the features other than the ability to play along with my music, so I don't think I'll be embarking on that route.

I appreciate the offer for the practice amp, but again, I'd like the ability to listen to my music from the same source, so that's out.

I think I'll just be purchasing a small bass practice amp with aux in that I can stick into the corner of my room and use for both my guitar and bass.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2008 19:12

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Well, this thread has certainly picked up and gone off in interesting directions since I opened it one and a half years ago!

Would people be interested in a new thread with an OP that amalgamates some of the advice given in this thread (i.e. good bass guitars for beginners, amp basics, practice routines, resources, etc.)?

# ¿ Jul 5, 2009 20:52

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

h_double posted:

Honestly I'm not sure that it's big enough to warrant a new thread (and there's a lot of good content in this one), but if you wanted to edit some more info into the OP that might be useful.

You're right. It is only 17 pages. It just seems like it's been around for so long!

Anyway I'm in the process of going through the thread and pulling out the juicy morsels for an updated OP.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2009 23:45

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Alright guys, I'm done scouring the thread for useful tidbits and I'm going to start drafting a more informative OP.

I like the direction the thread's going (a mixture of beginner and advanced topics) but for the OP I want to address beginner questions/purchasing advice. While upright/fretless/5+ string discussion is welcome, I don't think either are pertinent for beginners, so I'm just going to focus on 4-string electrics.

I plan to have sections for recommended beginner guitars, buying advice, amp advice, practice tips, and a resources section for books and websites. As far as the actual information goes, I'll be relying almost entirely on what I've scoured from the thread. I don't expect to address everything, but I would greatly appreciate feedback once its up. If you guys have any recommendations or points you want to stress, just let me know.

EDIT: New OP is up!

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jul 8, 2009

# ¿ Jul 8, 2009 01:00

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

So I'm kind of starting over completely by adopting the "floating thumb" technique. Before I was doing the whole anchoring thing except I was moving my thumb down and resting it on the strings as I strummed the higher ones (this is the method outlined in Hal Leonard Bass Method). So far it feels a little odd relying on the shoulder muscles so much (not uncomfortable, though), but I'm hoping a few days of practice will get me back up to speed.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2009 16:11

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Scarf posted:

That's essentially what floating is... Not anchored to any one area the whole time.

Right, but before it was essentially a moving anchor where I would rest my thumb like this:

strumming E, resting thumb on top of pickup
strumming A, resting thumb on top of pickup
strumming D, resting thumb on top of E
strumming G, resting thumb on top of A

I was still putting tension in my wrist when I anchored. Now I just let the thumb "float" over the strings and it mutes them naturally:

Now my wrist is much more straight and relaxed (I lowered my strap a little and the shoulder movements are much easier now).

Is there anything wrong with this?

Also, Scarf, could you take a look at the new OP and let me know what you think? Your input would be greatly appreciated, especially since I got a lot of the information from you.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2009 17:48

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Scarf posted:

Oh, I'll come up with a good blurb about different techniques to sound the bass (finger, pick, thumb, slap, etc.). Since it's always a heated discussion revolving around it. I'll have something this afternoon.

Sounds good! I'll keep a look out.

Right, I suppose I was still "floating" with the old technique, and while it wasn't necessarily uncomfortable, the new technique requires a lot less effort, and I really want to instill a sense of looseness and calm in my playing.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and I'll keep at it!

# ¿ Jul 9, 2009 18:17

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Looks good, Scarf. I went ahead and added it to the OP.

By the way, I'm curious about 3+ finger plucking techniques. Could you elaborate on those a little more? Would a new player want to bother with these techniques? Why or why not? Who are some famous bassists who use these techniques?

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 9, 2009

# ¿ Jul 9, 2009 21:14

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Thanks for the information and links.

I've been doing some youtube research and all I can find for four finger playing is with the thumb, index, middle and ring. Has anyone ever successfully pulled off an index, middle, ring, pinky configuration?

I figure since I'm spending the time to step back and really refine my technique, I might want to try working 3+ finger strumming. It certainly seems like its less effort (playing, not learning) for a great speed increase.

EDIT: Entwistle obviously is an example of the imrp config.

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jul 10, 2009

# ¿ Jul 10, 2009 00:12

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

So I'm encountering some issues regarding proper left hand (fretting) technique:

I've never been able to gracefully fret the neck, even when I played guitar. This problem was obviously exacerbated when I moved to bass.

I want to feel comfortable in a one-finger-per-fret configuration; unfortunately, doing this even at the higher frets feels very unnatural. Whether or not this is because my fingers aren't used to stretching out is anyone's guess.

I've attached a picture demonstrating my problem. In it, I'm trying to compensate for "proper technique" (one finger per fret, pads of fingers placed just behind frets, thumb against back of neck, etc.) and as you can tell it's not very comfortable or pretty. It's not relaxing and again, I'm not sure if this is due to poor playing before and I'm just not used to it or if I'm barking up the tree and need to find a technique that's comfortable for me.

Any pointers? I can provide more pictures and information if needed.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ¿ Jul 10, 2009 19:30

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Plastic Snake posted:

Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y57-2eaTBwc&NR=1

Don't worry about quick progress though. It takes a long time for the tendons and muscles to learn how to stretch and relax enough to really reach those low notes with the 1 finger per fret system. Just start easy and slow and work your way up. Doing it with a metronome would be ideal because that way you can practice your rhythm at the same time.

I'm definitely concerned with getting it right over getting it quick. I had been playing casually for about 1.5 years and I realized that my technique needed a lot of changes. I'm pretty much starting over from ground zero and I'm prepared to take a couple months just getting both hands working right before moving onto anything more complex.

Thanks for the link. I think my hands might just be weird or something. I tried going over it with a teacher a while ago and I think we eventually just sort of settled on a technique that works for guitar but doesn't really for bass.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2009 20:32

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Trip report on four finger plucking: gaining independence between your hands isn't easy. This isn't a problem when I'm playing a 1-2-3-4, but when I play something like 1-3-2-4, my plucking hand naturally wants to match my fretting hand. I'm working out the kinks by practicing on a low tempo; I'm trying to have my strumming be a constant forward moving index-middle-ring-pinky wave.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2009 21:20

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Also, I just realized that a big problem with my fretting technique was that the bass was hanging too low on the strap. Because of the way my strap's designed, even the shortest setting isn't short enough for me, so I'm going to have to buy a new strap. For now, I'll just sit down when I practice.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2009 23:21

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Schatten posted:

I require a shorter strap than usual on most of my guitars and basses. But I still sling a little low and vary in length depending on what I'm playing and how I'm playing it. When buying a strap, sling it over your shoulder and see if it is short enough. If it is a heavy bass, you should look into the comfort strap or something similar.

I think the problem with the one I have now is that the shoulder pad is too big and it can't be raised past the point where the pad begins. I'll have to find something that's suitable for scrawny guys like me.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2009 19:52

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Cortel posted:

Nice thread title

quit posting and work on your cheek strumming

# ¿ Jul 13, 2009 20:43

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

This is a technical question about a problem I'm experiencing with my bass amp:

Basically, the input port (where I connect the cable) doesn't work. Sort of. If I turn the amp on without touching anything, I don't get any sound. However, if I apply even the tiniest pressure to the cable downwards, everything sounds fine. It's like there's no contact in a neutral straight, but the slightest bit of pressure sets it off.

Any ideas for what's going on? I suspect this might be a soldering job, in which case I'm SOL because I've never soldered anything and I don't want to practice on my big and expensive bass amp.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2009 19:37

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

I tried another cable and it's definitely the amp.

The only place I know nearby is Guitar Center, and knowing them, they'd probably charge an arm and a leg for such a simple procedure. Guess I better start looking around...

# ¿ Oct 21, 2009 19:46

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

scuz posted:

When I worked at Guitar Center, we didn't have any amp repair shop. What we would do is send it out to the company that built it for servicing. It was a poo poo system that was very expensive and slow. Look around for a "____ licensed" technician and bring it to them.

___ being the make of my amp (Behringer)?

Anyway, thanks for the help, guys.

Rush_shirt fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Oct 21, 2009

# ¿ Oct 21, 2009 19:49

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

DrChu posted:

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Support/Service-Centers.aspx

That helps a bunch. Thanks!

# ¿ Oct 21, 2009 19:55

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Added scuz's excellent post to the OP.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2009 19:01

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Anyone got any advice for singing while playing bass? I find it almost impossible to play even the simplest rhythm while singing a melody with a slightly different rhythm. I guess it just takes time to do both independently...

# ¿ Nov 27, 2009 23:55

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

Thanks for the tips on singing and playing at the same time. I actually surprised myself today when I could do it on one of the songs I had been playing for a while -- it's all in the muscle memory!

# ¿ Dec 2, 2009 01:12

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 18:42

Rush_shirt: Apr 24, 2007

DaFuente posted:

I'm a guitarist who just started playing bass in a band for fun. I've been borrowing an amp, but I really really need to get my own. I'm in the process of selling my guitar rig to buy a new, so I thought "Hey maybe I could buy something that would work for guitar OR bass. I understand the problems in this, namely that bass amps require much much more headroom to push the low frequencies. BUT the Bassman was originally intended as a bass amp, no?

So my question- could I get something like a blackface Bassman or a 60s Ampeg Gemini and use it for both?

You can absolutely use a bass amp for both guitar and bass. Obviously, you're going to get a deeper tone, so make sure you're all right with that. Some guitarists actually prefer to practice with bass amps.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2010 01:28

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > No Music Discussion > Musician's Lounge > BASS MEGATHREAD: Beginners, welcome to my ass!

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