Tools! - Crimpin ain't easy but it is necessary.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Tools! - Crimpin ain't easy but it is necessary.

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Does anyone else have a lot of questions about automotive wiring?

I don't know if it's worth starting a thread over, but I'm curious about ... well ...

what type of connections are better? Soldered, crimped? (Edit: kastein posted about this, sounds like it's ... either / makes no difference? (The page before that has a pretty decent back and forth that seems to settle on crimping perfectly is ultimately better than soldering perfectly, but no one does either perfectly and you should probably do whichever you're more comfortable with.))
If it's soldered, what kind of solder should I use? Soldering iron, soldering gun? Which brand/model? (Edit: Iron, Weller WES51 or WESD51 per our trusted NEAI engineery dude)
If it's crimped, what kind of crimps do I use? What's the proper way to do it? Tools needed?
What type of connectors are better? Weatherpack, those weird triangle DTM ones, etc?
What type of relays are good?
Where should connections be fused?
What's good technique? (Edit: Maybe this is a decent guide?)

These are probably all really dumb questions, and some are tool questions that I'm sure have been hashed out, but ... if I don't ask, I won't know, right? And there are probably more questions I'm not thinking of, as well. Hopefully I'm not the only person with these issues, but maybe I'm the only dummy who doesn't know how to wire cars.

The specific job that lead me to think of these questions is adding an LED light bar to a vehicle and attempting to wire it without the help of someone who knows better (and therefore tends to just build a harness and tell me to plug it in).

Obviously I appreciate said person's help and knowledge, but don't want to be dependent and would like to learn how to fish rather than be given a fish, so to speak.

Krakkles fucked around with this message at 21:52 on May 28, 2014

# ¿ May 28, 2014 21:07

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 04:07

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

How do I figure out what the right gauge wire is?

I'm imagining I'll get some matching size wire for the leads to the light (it should have a +/- wire on it, so I'll be attaching to those), but I can use smaller wire between the switch and the relay, right? How about between the relay and power source (bigger, I'd think)?

# ¿ May 28, 2014 22:52

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

KozmoNaut posted:

I'll be the contrarian and say that crimping is better. With soldering, you risk the solder wicking up into the wire and making it brittle. A proper crimped connection is more durable and will stand up better to vibration. Just make sure to use quality crimps and a good crimper.

Source: My dad has been installing various electronics in cars since the early 1980s, including on earthmoving and farming equipment. He's always used crimps and he's never had a properly-crimped connection fail.

What are some good quality crimps and a good crimper?

# ¿ May 28, 2014 22:57

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

KozmoNaut posted:

My dad swears by tools from Berner and W�rth. I'm not 100% sure if the crimps come from them as well, he goes through a lot of them, but he refuses to buy the cheap poo poo.

E: Just checked their websites. The crimps and crimp tools that Berner sells are the ones he's got.

Killer, checking that out. Thank you!

# ¿ May 29, 2014 01:22

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Someone recommended the Craftsman one in here a ways back: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cable-operated-hose-clamp-pliers/p-00947390000P

Edit: Thanks, Safety Dance!

Safety Dance posted:

If I'm over-engineering things, this is what I go by:

Let's assume you have a 120 watt light bar, that's going to draw 10A. You're probably not going to run more than about 20 feet of wire, so use at least 10ga wire from battery to relay to light bar and back again. For the switch, you could probably use spider silk; use whatever you have handy.

This is hugely helpful.

When I do this install, the distance from battery -> relay -> light bar is actually going to be very short - MAYBE 3 feet. Does this correctly imply that I can use a smaller gauge (looks like 16, maybe 14 to be safe) wire? Edit again: and you nailed it, it's a 120W/10A lightbar.

Krakkles fucked around with this message at 20:02 on May 29, 2014

# ¿ May 29, 2014 19:59

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

kastein posted:

Yes, you can, but as usual that's the minimum spec. I usually use 10ga for anything lighting related on the power side of the circuit unless larger wiring is required.

As noted, anything works for the signal side. A lot of people use stranded cat5, in fact.

That's probably a good idea. Ok, cool. Thank you!

Ok, so I'm going the crimping route (ordered a Snap-On crimper, because I usually trust their tools, and it sounds like it's one of the "if you buy a lovely one you will regret it" tools), I'm looking at connectors from McMaster Carr because Berner sadly doesn't seem easily available in the US.

For fuses, I should fuse near the power source, not the load, right? Or both?

# ¿ May 29, 2014 20:08

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

peepsalot posted:

Fusing near the power source is better since there is a possibility that you could end up with a short somewhere between the power source and the load. If the fuse was on the load in that case, it would never break the circuit.

Makes good sense, thanks both of you.

In this case (battery - relay - light) is the relay the load, or the light?

Or, basically, do I need to fuse before AND after the relay, or just one side?

StormDrain posted:

Oh hell, I just use a crimper from Napa and buy all of my crimps at ACE, then wrap that up with good 3M tape.

I understand the sentiment, but money isn't really an issue, and I've bought a lot of $30 tools that I then replaced with a Snap On. I've gotten to the point where I just buy the good stuff to begin with

Krakkles fucked around with this message at 20:34 on May 29, 2014

# ¿ May 29, 2014 20:32

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Bulk Vanderhuge posted:

Ingersoll Rand has a cordless one that's rated at 780 lb/ft and 1100lb/ft "nut busting torque", whatever that means.

http://www.ingersollrandproducts.co...cience-or-magic

Basically, tighten a nut with something calibrated to that torque (ie, not the gun), you should be able to remove it at that torque level.

In reading a few blurbs about it, it looks like most impact guns are able to generate higher momentary levels of torque than their consistent output. So in that case, it can consistently generate 780lb-ft, but with momentary surges to 1100lb-ft. That seems consistent with how they work (striking and rotating, not just rotating).

Krakkles fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 5, 2014

# ¿ Jun 5, 2014 17:51

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Ok, I got my crimper, and I got some good 3M crimps off of ebay. Where should I be buying generic wire, heat shrink, spade connectors ... stuff like that?

I'm in the US (California) in a major city, so any chain should really be available. Home Depot? Harbor Freight? Frys?

# ¿ Jun 5, 2014 21:04

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Looks like Waytek stocks it in bulk, 3M, adhesive lined. It's gonna run a fair amount to get a selection, but gently caress it.

Krakkles fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jun 5, 2014

# ¿ Jun 5, 2014 22:01

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Are there any good places to get Deutsch connectors (or something similar - waterproof, quick disconnect) for 10AWG wire?

Everything I'm finding for quick disconnects goes down to about 12-14AWG and won't work for the 10AWG wire I want to run to my light bar.

Ideally I'm looking for a 2pin connector, but that's less of an issue than running the right size.

Even Mcmaster doesn't seem to.

Edit: Ok, maybe I found it on ebay:

Female: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEUTSCH-DTP-2-PIN-FEMALE-CONNECTOR-KIT-WITH-LOCK-AND-10-12-AWG-TERMINAL-DTP04-2P-/221138245508
Male: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEUTSCH-DTP...=item338d5346ff

Those should work together, right?

Krakkles fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jun 11, 2014

# ¿ Jun 11, 2014 22:32

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Killer. It kind of sucks that each connector is ... like $17 (by the time you buy both sides), but I guess it's the price of doing it right.

Thank you!

Edit: Best named tool ever: http://www.gerbergear.com/Military/Gear/Ding-Dong_30-000790

Krakkles fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jun 11, 2014

# ¿ Jun 11, 2014 22:49

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Am I missing a joke there or something?

It annihilates things, it's called the Annihilator ... it's a cool name, but it's not really in my mind clever. "Ding Dong" is a noise we all associate with doorbells, which signify someone wanting to enter through the door ... the breaching ram/hammer/prybar is called the "Ding Dong".

Nope, sorry, this is better.

Edit: Plus it's a "big, black, ding dong".

....

# ¿ Jun 12, 2014 00:01

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

The Carbon Tax posted:

I suspect they're not actually cobalt through and through - I've snapped enough cobalt bits to know how brittle they are, and reserve their use for when HSS won't do.

If you bought them from someone doing a live demo it may be some kind of cobalt wonder-coating. Have you got a brand name?

Gonna laugh if it's this.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2014 04:21

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

I'd also be interested in this, or anything approaching it. (I'd settle for 5, I think)

# ¿ Jul 10, 2014 05:43

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Are there good covering sleeves for huge breaker bars?

Basically, my last breaker bar just stayed under the rear seat of the 4x4, and was therefore exposed to huge amounts of dust. I just got a nice breaker bar (http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=&item_ID=651014&group_ID=682694&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog) and would like to get a canvas sleeve or something to protect it a bit.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 08:06

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

That sounds perfect! Thank you.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 08:49

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Powershift posted:

You can't spend 200 bucks on a breaker bar and just throw it in a bag.

Get a pool cue case!

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Series-C4...5325465&sr=1-12

That seems a bit much. And it wouldn't help it fit in said 4x4. But thanks, anyway.

Also ... :rolleyes:

if you guys don't get why I'm taking better care of a tool that I plan on keeping. If you think dust in a greasable tool won't affect it, you're fooling yourself.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 12:10

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

I only use 12 points if the bolt is 12 point. Get an 80 tooth ratchet if you're working in tight spaces.

(Same thing: rounding bolts sucks)

# ¿ Jul 16, 2014 04:13

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

They're called drivers, and there's probably one from every brand.

Here's a snap-on / bluepoint:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=hand&item_ID=644933&group_ID=682229&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

# ¿ Jul 20, 2014 19:08

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

tumblr.txt posted:

While I'm in a ratchet buying mood - what's a good one for driving 1/4" hex bits? Ideally I'm after a small swing angle and a flex-head.

I love my TF72.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2015 03:59

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

That's actually the opposite of fickle.

I just have a friend mount tires now because the last time I went to a tire place they realigned my car despite me telling them not to, which made the car drive way wrong until I fixed it.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2015 18:38

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

I bought the blueprint crimper. It was a bit pricey, but it crimps perfectly every time. I highly recommend it if you can afford.

Edit: oof. Less than the Daniels! I'd be curious to try those because I've been very happy with the (cheaper, never thought I'd say that) BluePoint.

Edit 2: This one.

Krakkles fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Jun 10, 2015

# ¿ Jun 10, 2015 05:08

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

I can't figure out what the actual difference is between these tools, besides $200+. What's the practical difference between 0590MCX and 0590MHX, at the end of this page:

http://www.apexhandtools.com/brands/hkporter/index.cfm?model_list=1&att_id=HKP001&att1=Manual%20Bolt%20Cutters&att2=Heavy%20Duty

?

# ¿ Jul 5, 2015 19:00

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

oxbrain posted:

The jaws are shaped differently. The chain cutters are stubbier and narrower to fit between links.

Awesome, thanks. I'm thinking I'll get the cheaper ones, and if they don't work, the 12 gauge should

# ¿ Jul 6, 2015 18:55

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

I did not think that anyone would ever describe my hands as "strong, blue collar hands", but that whole sentence made my brain yell "SISSY! SISSY!" over and over again, so ... I guess I do?

# ¿ Jul 7, 2015 16:56

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

PBCrunch posted:

I have an air impact and an older Snap On cordless electric. The Snap On is great for most things, but it doesn't have the 'speed' of an air impact. In particular the electric gun doesn't work well to tighten or remove the nuts that go on the end of a shock/strut. Newer guns may not have this problem (mine was made 2011 IIRC).

They don't. My Milwaukee is as fast as most airguns, and worked great for this.

The technology has ramped up A LOT with the improvements in battery technology in the last couple years. Guns from (nearly) 5 years ago really don't compare with "modern" guns.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2015 23:52

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

rally posted:

Was gonna say, I used a 1/2 inch brushless M18 Milwaukee the other day and I'm going to buy one for myself as soon as I get paid. It took the rusted 36mm axle nut off a junkyard xj without even hesitating (actually it did take a second to break it loose). My old electric plug in DeWalt would have choked.

That's literally the one I have and the use case I bought it for.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2015 00:04

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

We like wobble extensions, but they're not intended for high-torque usage and should be expected to break if used for them.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2015 20:43

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

https://store.snapon.com/Ratcheting-Crimpers-Kit-Ratcheting-Crimper-Quick-Change-P650252.aspx

They're friggin' amazing.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2015 15:31

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

peepsalot posted:

What's wrong with the cheaper ratcheting ones like this? Besides non swappable jaws.

http://www.amazon.com/Titan-11477-Ratcheting-Terminal-Crimper/dp/B0069TRKJ0

I haven't used those, but the cheaper ones I've used just don't work as well. As in, they require more force, they aren't as precise, they don't last, etc.

There are some tools (a prybar, say) that are pretty much the same no matter what.

Some things (ratchets, these) are very, very different depending on which you get.

Seriously - before I bought these, I thought I didn't know how to crimp - I could never get crimps to work well. The first time I used these, it was a perfect crimp. And every one since has been as well.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2015 18:22

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

FatCow posted:

That relies on the assumption that the wrench grabs 180* appart. I'm not sure that is true for that style of wrench, the one I have for my spring perches isn't quite 180.

Use a compass to complete the circle, then proceed.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 18:34

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Xy Hapu posted:

It's definitely a pain seating lugnuts onto new steelies, you bap them on at 80 ft lbs or whatever and it's nice and tight and on spec, then you decide to give it a couple more baps for no good reason and they instantly jump forward another quarter turn and now it's still at 80 but a betterer 80 that is less likely to eject your wheels.

Ah, yes, you must have that finely calibrated torque impact gun. Definitely a valid and accurate method.

# ¿ Dec 23, 2015 07:48

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Splizwarf posted:

Is there a DeWalt version of the various tool-battery-powered heated hoodie/jacket? The Milwaukee m12 heated hoodie is fantastic.

Thanks for mentioning this. I mentioned it to the wife, got it for christmas, and looooooove it.

powderific posted:

I have the compact M18 Fuel 3/8" impact wrench and it's great for lug nuts and whatnot. I started with the giant 700 ft/lb one but decided it was too big and way more than I needed.

I love my full size M18 Fuel. It's hilariously fun in junkyards, and comes in handy off-road. Lug nuts are a total non-issue.

Krakkles fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 29, 2015

# ¿ Dec 29, 2015 01:09

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

El Jebus posted:

Are you looking for one do it all impact or would you be interested in multiple? I have the 3/8" 12v makita and love it but use my friend's 1/2" Snap On for the tough poo poo and want one of those, too. The 12v system is really tiny and they make a bunch of cool stuff for it. But if you went Milwaukee you could get that heated hoodie in the 12v, too!

E: turns out the 18v Makita has the jacket option instead of 12v like everyone else.

The Milwaukee will work off the 18V batteries too - part number 49-24-2371.

I'm debating getting that and some low pro 18v batteries for longer life.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 07:00

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

I love my Antigravity Batteries AG-XP-3 USB Port. It stays in my 4x4, gets charged when I use it or ~every 6 months, starts everything.

Also, I've had bad experiences with multiple Anker products - batteries failing and such. Maybe they've gotten better.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2016 21:47

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

bolind posted:

Also, we don't really get Snap-On and similar tool truck brands, so if there's a must-own for that, spill the beans.

Snap-On makes the End-All-Be-All of 2 foot breaker bars - 80 tooth ratcheting, 1/2" drive, you will break everything loose without breaking this tool kind of breaker bar. If I had to pick one snap-on, that's it. A bit broader, any snap-on 80-tooth ratchet is to kill for.

I'd do one of those. I believe if you look through my post history in this thread, you'll find part numbers - I've posted about all of these before.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2016 18:16

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Vulcan posted:

Is that this one? https://store.snapon.com/Dual-80-174-Technology-chrome-1-2--1-2-Drive-80-Tooth-Long-Locking-Flex-Head-Ratchet-P651015.aspx

With or without flex head? I'd worry about slipping and rounding a nut when working in a cramped engine bay at a terrible angle, but it claims the head locks up once extreme torque is applied...

Definitely with flex head, mine is this (without locking), but locking is up to you.

I use this regularly on high-torque (300+ lb-ft) and have never had it flex while working, so I don't think the locking head is necessary, but ...

# ¿ Jan 16, 2016 04:01

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

Wrar posted:

Since I'm going to have a garage again soon I've been thinking about going mostly airless and getting Milwaukee/other vendor's battery based tools.

Pros/Cons?

Milwaukee is fantastic. I've had good luck with Bosch as well, but I've got more Milwaukee and feel more strongly that it's a really great system.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2016 20:26

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 04:07

Krakkles: May 5, 2003

mod sassinator posted:

I went with Bosch's 12V drill and impact system and it's great for its tiny size, but I do feel a bit limited in that they don't have anything else beyond drivers. I would definitely check out some of the nicer 18v+ systems like from Milwaukee.

Yeah, basically same for me. I have the 12V driver from Bosch.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2016 20:45

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