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PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

Altoidss posted:

Where? I have no clue how to get new drum samples, and I certainly can't afford to buy them at the moment.

But I'll try your suggestions out tomorrow after I've gotten some sleep.

Just search for "free 909 sample" or "free drum samples" and see what turns up.

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Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
and because that poo poo's hard, yo:

http://machines.hyperreal.org/samples.html

Akai used to have a nice bunch of samples called "Kit of the Week" thanks to Hollow Sun (who now do sample sets for the Alesis Fusion). Lots of vintage drumshit in there, too.

Packed Tightly
Mar 3, 2007
Does anybody have drum and bass production experience? I won't post my questions here because I have a whole heap of genre specific ones, but if there's anybody out there who'd be willing to give me a bit of advice/answer some questions, it'd stop me from going crazy trying to figure this poo poo out.

Cheers.

The Fog
Oct 10, 2004

-I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Packed Tightly posted:

Does anybody have drum and bass production experience? I won't post my questions here because I have a whole heap of genre specific ones, but if there's anybody out there who'd be willing to give me a bit of advice/answer some questions, it'd stop me from going crazy trying to figure this poo poo out.

Cheers.

Just write them out. You'll see most stuff isn't very genre specific.

Altoidss posted:

Where? I have no clue how to get new drum samples, and I certainly can't afford to buy them at the moment.

But I'll try your suggestions out tomorrow after I've gotten some sleep.

http://www.vipzone-samples.com/freesamples.php
There's some free ones, but I suggest you shell out a few bucks for these (which have more or less become [dance] industry standard):
http://vengeance-sound.de/eng/indexes/indexSampleCDs.html

Drummond Bass
Apr 13, 2007

Kai was taken posted:

The major free software suite is Audacity (or Garageband on OSX)

They aren't really comparable, Audacity is more of a sound editor/recorder (think glorified tape deck) and isn't geared towards writing music, whereas Garageband actually is a compositional tool. Reaper, for example, instead of Audacity is a bit more appropriate a comparison and probably more useful for the purpose of the thread.

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

Question{s}

I've always kind of liked the idea of having my own laptop for dedicated music stuff rather than the desktop I'm using now:

How much can I expect a reasonable laptop setup to cost me (minus software)

How do you protect one while gigging

Am I being a brand conditioned moron for automatically leaning towards a macbook without knowing why

ManoliIsFat
Oct 4, 2002

Packed Tightly posted:

Does anybody have drum and bass production experience? I won't post my questions here because I have a whole heap of genre specific ones, but if there's anybody out there who'd be willing to give me a bit of advice/answer some questions, it'd stop me from going crazy trying to figure this poo poo out.

Cheers.
I got you bro. The key is really the drums. Step 1: Speed up a drum break, and chop the gently caress out of it.

ManoliIsFat
Oct 4, 2002

Three Red Lights posted:

How do you protect one while gigging
Best way I've found is to just keep it on you the whole time, unless you're really down for the people at the show and can keep it locked away backstage.

Three Red Lights posted:

Am I being a brand conditioned moron for automatically leaning towards a macbook without knowing why
I say don't go with mac unless you have a really good reason too. Too many people pick them up just because they think it's some industry standard, and then get all sad when they can't runny Fruity Loops or some free VST they want. If you want to use logic or digital performer, or are just more comfortable with a mac, by all means do it. But I'd suggest that you have a good reason for it.

I can't help you with price, though, since I haven't priced a laptop in ages.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Packed Tightly posted:

I won't post my questions here because I have a whole heap of genre specific ones, but if there's anybody out there who'd be willing to give me a bit of advice/answer some questions, it'd stop me from going crazy trying to figure this poo poo out.

Since they're specific, just start a separate thread for it, then any good stuff can be merged back into this one, and everyone else can read it.

Anyway, for what you want to ask there's Dogs On Acid - a pretty big d'n'b forum where pretty much everything you could think of probably has been asked. It's just that several members have stupidly big signatures and retarded spelling.

ManoliIsFat
Oct 4, 2002

Yoozer posted:

Anyway, for what you want to ask there's Dogs On Acid - a pretty big d'n'b forum where pretty much everything you could think of probably has been asked. It's just that several members have stupidly big signatures and retarded spelling.
and a couple big name producers hang around there, IIRC.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so
Added Electro to the OP. If Eurodance gets a genre, Electro should. I think this pretty much covers most of the "main" genres, or at least enough to trace back derivative roots.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

Kai was taken posted:

Added Electro to the OP. If Eurodance gets a genre, Electro should. I think this pretty much covers most of the "main" genres, or at least enough to trace back derivative roots.

Ahem, IDM/Glitch? :colbert:

ManoliIsFat
Oct 4, 2002

Ahem breakcore

this is gonna get silly, fast

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...

Kai was taken posted:

There's nothing wrong with it sounding bad, everyone's early songs suck pretty hard. As long as you recognize where you're falling short and can improve on it, that's what's important.

Stereo separation is to wiiiiiiiiiden the stereo field. Panning is one way of accomplishing this, as well as using stereo effects. If you're rolling with reason, stereo effects have two outputs, while mono effects have just one. Generally speaking, you should keep things out of the dead center, except for your kick and your bass. Of course, it's open for interpretation exactly where things should lie, but just moving them around a little should give you a decent starting point.

Stereo separation is where you take a stereo signal (2 channels) and you add a small time delay to one of the channels. The length of the delay depends on the length of the stereo signal in question so you will often find stereo separation is not measured in milliseconds or even seconds but rather in degrees where 360 degrees represents a full cycle of the input signal.

To understand what this does to a signal you need to read up on a property of sound called 'phase'. All 'stereo wideners' work by adding a phase shift between the left and right channel in a stereo pair and when the signal remains stereo it can produce an odd and exagerated sense of width. However, stereo separation also destroys mono compatibility, the extent of which depends on the extent of the phase shift and where destructive phasing occurs in the signal.

When I say 'stereo signal' I mean a a 2 channel sound which is not symmetrical in terms of what is going on in the left and right channel. A 2 channel sound which is exactly the same on the left as it is on the right is called dual mono.

If you were to take a dual mono sound, add a 180 degree phase shift between channels and sum to mono you will get total destructive phasing (i.e. the result will be total silence). This is not necessarily the case with stereo signals although you will almost certainly have some significant degree of destructive phasing occuring unless the left and right channels are completely uncorrolated.

WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Mar 12, 2008

Elder
Oct 19, 2004

It's the Evolution Revolution.
I was reading briefly in some other forum about playing electronic music in live settings, and how with any bass-heavy stuff you should be careful that the kick is tune with the bass. I guess the idea is that when you're playing live, sub-frequencies that you didn't hear on your monitors at home will be coming through these huge, loud venue speakers. So if the kick is out of tune with the bassline, it can create some dissonance that will be really uncomfortable for the audience.

Is this true and how important is it really? How do you make sure that your kick is in tune with the bass, and how can you check this if you can't hear it on your monitors?

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

Three Red Lights posted:

Question{s}

I've always kind of liked the idea of having my own laptop for dedicated music stuff rather than the desktop I'm using now:

How much can I expect a reasonable laptop setup to cost me (minus software)

Am I being a brand conditioned moron for automatically leaning towards a macbook without knowing why


I'd say go with a Mac because of the ease of use with audio and MIDI routing. If you're not using any external gear, it's a crapshoot then, use whatever you want. I do everything on a MacBook Pro.

Unless you're aiming for Windows-only software like FruityLoops or Project5.

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...

Elder posted:

I was reading briefly in some other forum about playing electronic music in live settings, and how with any bass-heavy stuff you should be careful that the kick is tune with the bass. I guess the idea is that when you're playing live, sub-frequencies that you didn't hear on your monitors at home will be coming through these huge, loud venue speakers. So if the kick is out of tune with the bassline, it can create some dissonance that will be really uncomfortable for the audience.

Is this true and how important is it really? How do you make sure that your kick is in tune with the bass, and how can you check this if you can't hear it on your monitors?

Well that depends on what you mean by 'in tune'. A bass drum is a membranophone and when you strike it, it doesn't vibrate with a constant fundamental frequency and a sequence of harmonics. A bass drum is not a harmonic instrument.

However, various synthetic bass drums (as derived from drum machines like the TR-808 and TR-909) do attempt to synthesize atonal instruments using harmonic oscillators and noise generators and depending on how you program them, you can get them to produce a discernible pitch reference. One that is constant enough to tune to other harmonic oscillators (even if it is only roughly).

The oft used example is that of an 808 bass drum which has a very fast initial 'click' (partly the result of pitch envelope modulating a low frequency sine wave) and a long decay. The pitch dive levels out and if the decay phase is long enough and you keep the envelope modulation low, you can make out constant low frequency sine and it is that part of the drum that you can tune.

Should you always tune your 808/909 bassdrums to the fundamental frequency of your monotone 303 bassline? No. You should always do what you think sounds best because frankly, nobody is interested in listening to what you think other people think is a good idea.

If you want to check whether your bassline is in tune with your bassdrum (for whatever reason) you pitch up the bass note until the fundamental is audible on your monitors. You run a spectrum analyser at the output of that channel and you look for the lowest, tallest peak (aka the fundamental frequency). That is the lowest pitch reference for your bassline. An octave lower than that is the same as halving the frequency.

i.e. you pitch up your bass note so you can hear it easy. You read a spectrum of it and it says that the fundamental is at 440hz (roughly, an A). The same note an octave lower is 220hz. An octave below that is 110hz. etc etc.

The kick drum is harder to tell because it is not harmonic meaning that it doesn't have a fundamental and that part of the drum with the highest amplitude (the initial 'click') is not the lowest pitch reference. You can however filter out the click temporarily leaving only the constant bass hummmm, pitch it up an octave so you can hear it properly, tune it by ear to approximately the same area as the fundamental on your bassline and then just tune it down an octave again.

Theres loads of ways you can DIY it if you want to but yeah. You don't always have to and you shouldn't feel like you must.

WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Mar 12, 2008

Packed Tightly
Mar 3, 2007

Yoozer posted:

Anyway, for what you want to ask there's Dogs On Acid

Thanks for reminding me about DoA. I'd browsed through it a while back, but forgotten just how much is on there.

For those that are interested, this page is largely what I was looking for.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

Kai was taken posted:

I'd say go with a Mac because of the ease of use with audio and MIDI routing.

What do macs do with audio and midi routing different than pcs? (asking for information not starting a faggoty mac vs pc debate)

Altoidss
Jun 7, 2007
Curiously Strong

WanderingKid posted:

Well that depends on what you mean by 'in tune'. A bass drum is a membranophone and when you strike it, it doesn't vibrate with a constant fundamental frequency and a sequence of harmonics. A bass drum is not a harmonic instrument.

However, various synthetic bass drums (as derived from drum machines like the TR-808 and TR-909) do attempt to synthesize atonal instruments using harmonic oscillators and noise generators and depending on how you program them, you can get them to produce a discernible pitch reference. One that is constant enough to tune to other harmonic oscillators (even if it is only roughly).

The oft used example is that of an 808 bass drum which has a very fast initial 'click' (partly the result of pitch envelope modulating a low frequency sine wave) and a long decay. The pitch dive levels out and if the decay phase is long enough and you keep the envelope modulation low, you can make out constant low frequency sine and it is that part of the drum that you can tune.

Should you always tune your 808/909 bassdrums to the fundamental frequency of your monotone 303 bassline? No. You should always do what you think sounds best because frankly, nobody is interested in listening to what you think other people think is a good idea.

If you want to check whether your bassline is in tune with your bassdrum (for whatever reason) you pitch up the bass note until the fundamental is audible on your monitors. You run a spectrum analyser at the output of that channel and you look for the lowest, tallest peak (aka the fundamental frequency). That is the lowest pitch reference for your bassline. An octave lower than that is the same as halving the frequency.

i.e. you pitch up your bass note so you can hear it easy. You read a spectrum of it and it says that the fundamental is at 440hz (roughly, an A). The same note an octave lower is 220hz. An octave below that is 110hz. etc etc.

The kick drum is harder to tell because it is not harmonic meaning that it doesn't have a fundamental and that part of the drum with the highest amplitude (the initial 'click') is not the lowest pitch reference. You can however filter out the click temporarily leaving only the constant bass hummmm, pitch it up an octave so you can hear it properly, tune it by ear to approximately the same area as the fundamental on your bassline and then just tune it down an octave again.

Theres loads of ways you can DIY it if you want to but yeah. You don't always have to and you shouldn't feel like you must.

What kind of program are you using? I can't find anything in reason that lets me approach what you're doing here.

Oh, also, is there a forum like Dogs on Acid for Electro or Progressive House?

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Protip: don't quote the entire stuff, just do

WanderingKid posted:

:words:

Altoidss posted:

What kind of program are you using? I can't find anything in reason that lets me approach what you're doing here.

Synthesizing bassdrums yourself: http://e-phonic.com/plugins/ > "Drumatic". You can build your own bassdrums using Thor or even Subtractor, too, but generally you don't have to bother if you have the sample. I'll whip up something quick so you can see what actually happens, drum synthesis is a nice field of study.

Tuning bassdrums can be done in two ways:

- you use a wave editor (Audacity, Wavelab, SoundForge) where you can speed the sample itself up and down in a destructive fashion (e.g. you cannot reverse this without loss in quality). Sometimes this is exactly what you want.

- you have your bassdrum sample and a sampling plugin capable of pitching the sample up and down. In this case, the original is kept intact, but every time you play a higher note, the sample "engine" speeds up or slows down the sample in realtime.

Reading spectrum: get a plugin like Voxengo SPAN, it shows the spectrum. The spectrum is a graph where each vertical bar represents a small frequency range and its height represents the volume of that range. A single lonely bar is a sinewave.

None of the above will however work in Reason; all assume that you have a different program (FL Studio would do just fine for this) where you can check stuff like this.

quote:

Oh, also, is there a forum like Dogs on Acid for Electro or Progressive House?
Those forums do not necessarily help you, you know this? There's also a lot of misinformation there, if I can believe WanderingKid's words.

The Fog
Oct 10, 2004

-I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Yoozer posted:

Those forums do not necessarily help you, you know this? There's also a lot of misinformation there, if I can believe WanderingKid's words.

I agree. They're alright for beginners, but once you're semi-good, you realize it's mostly misinformation.

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...
Some of you guys posted some ridiculous forum replies that were tantamount to misinformation. I thought Yoozer posted one of them (some very weird reply about what portmento was which turned out to be totally wrong).

Forums are alright and you can learn alot by reading them but you need to be aware that you can also get your head filled with alot of inane and totally wrong poo poo. I appreciate the irony of stating this on an internet forum and you should be skeptical of what I say too. You want clear reasoning behind statements of methodology.

Tranceaddict's production studio became like this for me - for every gem of wisdom you can get from that place, there are 10 false statements only a few clicks away. The key really is to be skeptical about everything you read on an internet forum and cross reference everything. If you are just starting out, published tutorials are generally the best way to go since they are more likely to be written by someone who can qualify their statements and they are often written with certain standards with regards to methodology and readability.

I've seen many people confuse stereo separation with panning and advise other forum goers on this subject accordingly. Stereo separation is very different to panning and has its own set of problems that have to be dealt with accordingly.

WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Mar 13, 2008

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

Stux posted:

What do macs do with audio and midi routing different than pcs? (asking for information not starting a faggoty mac vs pc debate)

They have an excellent app that will show you all MIDI/audio gear attached to your machine, all their inputs and outputs, and then allow you to manually adjust the routing between them.

I don't have any gear hooked up right now or I'd take a screenie of it. Someone with an interface and some MIDI gear hooked up should take one.


I wouldn't say it's the reason to get one, but it's something to take into consideration when weighing your options.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

WanderingKid posted:

I thought Yoozer posted one of them (some very weird reply about what portmento was which turned out to be totally wrong).
Just to make things clear for the rest: that reply wasn't mine ;).

quote:

I've seen many people confuse stereo separation with panning and advise other forum goers on this subject accordingly. Stereo separation is very different to panning and has its own set of problems that have to be dealt with accordingly.
And the worst thing is that they keep repeating it; either because they just haven't tried it, because they thought that the completely different thing was "how it was supposed to sound, I guess", or because they lack knowledge about the terminology.

If someone hands you any stuff about "well, just flip confabulator Y2 over there in non-linear mode and excite the mid-hi a bit with the astrolytical dynamicator", ask for evidence. If they can't reproduce it with a screenshot in Paint with some arrows on what to turn or where to watch for, or they can't show it in their homemade mp3, then it's worthless.

Here's a gabber drum in Thor, by the way:


edit: wtf, what's wrong with WaffleImages. uploaded on own server now.

By removing the distortion and playing with the Envelope settings you can make a whole lot of usable drum sounds.

Kai was taken posted:

They have an excellent app that will show you all MIDI/audio gear attached to your machine, all their inputs and outputs, and then allow you to manually adjust the routing between them.
Plus, Logic has some really nice and tight timing and deep editing options.

quote:

I don't have any gear hooked up right now or I'd take a screenie of it. Someone with an interface and some MIDI gear hooked up should take one.

Seriously, this is just loving sex.

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Mar 13, 2008

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

That does look pretty useful actually.

Is there an equivelant windows app? I don't have need of it now really but would be good for future reference.

ManoliIsFat
Oct 4, 2002

midiyoke helps, but it's not as nice as that mac thing

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

WanderingKid posted:

I've seen many people confuse stereo separation with panning and advise other forum goers on this subject accordingly. Stereo separation is very different to panning and has its own set of problems that have to be dealt with accordingly.

Yes, but when you're entire song is mixed in mono, I'd say that it's more important to understand panning and stereo effects than it is how phase calculations work to create space.

The worst thing to do is give a long-winded and complex technical explanation when all they need is a simple fix. It's the same reason why most nerds suck rear end at helping people. Sure, if his song was in stereo and had utilized correct panning and stereo already, I'd say explaining phase shifts for spacial creation is a good next step, but it's not something you need to know at that level.

It's the same reason I intentionally left off all the extra MIDI information and data charts, which pins do what, and other messages. It's only going to make explaining MIDI needlessly complicated, and 95% of people can work without knowing it anyway.


edit: Not saying you specifically, I'm just saying in general. The whole point of the initial OP isn't to be some Wikipedian Library of Alexandria, it's mean to be extremely simple to understand, and carry the solid, core information you'll need to accomplish 85% of things.

PRADA SLUT fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Mar 13, 2008

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...
There are still people around that mix in mono?!

Besides, most stereo 'effects' (i.e. choruses, flangers, phasers, stereo wideners, stereo imagers, reverb etc) are phase modulators anyway. Even if you mix everything in mono it helps to know that as soon as you use you use any of the above 'effects' its going to cause some problems when you render your mix down to mono.

At this point I'm used to sticking Voxengo Crunchessor on my master bus and leaving the input and output gain controls on 0dB (so that the compressor does absolutely nothing). I just use it here for the Mono output switch so I can quickly switch a stereo mix to mono and hear whats gone AWOL when I add a stereo chorus on my lead synth. Thats actually a good way of hearing for yourself the effects of phase shifts in stereo signals. Go get something like mgPhaseShifter (freeware!) and a freebie plugin that lets you input stereo and output mono. Then just drag the sliders around whilst listening to your tune looping in stereo and then mono. Check out all the freaky poo poo thats going on. Periodically, bits of your mix may even disappear.

Phase is not a difficult concept to understand. No more difficult than the frequency of a sound wave or the amplitude of a sound wave. Its odd that you mention wikipedia. Wikipedia of course has an article on phase but it is mostly mathematical and in practical terms has little use for people making music in their bedrooms. Taking 5 minutes out to check that stereo separation isn't the same thing as panning though. Man, thats hardly complicated stuff and its not like you have to crunch numbers or anything. I certainly dont.

Yoozer posted:

Just to make things clear for the rest: that reply wasn't mine

Oh sorry. I didn't mean it like that. I meant that someone here (who I thought was you) posted a link to an offsite thread where some random joe explained what portmento was and turned out to be completely horribly wrong. It was used an example of the kind of weird ideas that could be put into your head if you didn't know better.

ManoliIsFat posted:

midiyoke helps, but it's not as nice as that mac thing

Aye. MIDI yoke is a bit of a pain in the arse. I yearn for something more intuitive (preferably with a nice mac GUI). drat what is that mac program. I want to do all my MIDI msging in something like that.

WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Mar 13, 2008

ManoliIsFat
Oct 4, 2002

WanderingKid posted:

Aye. MIDI yoke is a bit of a pain in the arse. I yearn for something more intuitive (preferably with a nice mac GUI). drat what is that mac program. I want to do all my MIDI msging in something like that.
I believe that's the System Prefrences for MIDI/Audio in OSX. No special program.

I wish i was just *this* much better at programming so I could make a MIDIYolk with a nice gui. You can route MIDI all sorts of fun ways with a max patch, though.

Cyne
May 30, 2007
Beauty is a rare thing.

ManoliIsFat posted:

I believe that's the System Prefrences for MIDI/Audio in OSX. No special program.

Yep, it's default from Apple.

Applications -> Utilities -> Audio MIDI Setup

Ator
Oct 1, 2005

Another music site: http://www.novamusik.com/
Nova Musik sells only electronic music products, and usually has cheaper prices than zzSounds and Musician's Friend.

Slightly related topic: What do you guys think of Battery 3? I need a large library of drum samples.

Jobless Drunk
Aug 6, 2004

One summer evening drunk to hell I sat there nearly lifeless

WanderingKid posted:

There are still people around that mix in mono?!


Last I heard, Lemon D does everything in mono.

The Fog
Oct 10, 2004

-I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Jobless Drunk posted:

Last I heard, Lemon D does everything in mono.

Is there a reason behind this? I can see why he would mix down the reece in mono, but I don't see a reason to do the rest in mono as well.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so
I want to put some short + and -'s for the software suites linked in the top, just to give an idea, I was thinking two of each for pro's and con's, or three and two or whatever, just as long as it's the same for all of them.


EG

Pro Tools
+ Most "standard" software suite around
+ Comes with an audio interface
- Requires proprietary hardware to run, which can cause problems with laptops
- "LE" version has limited tracks, the next up version is very expensive

Live
+ Excellent workflow and ease of use
+ Can play Live performances
- No included synths (available for purchase as extras)
- Something Something Something

Reason
+ Incredibly flexible routing options
+ Something Something Something
- No plugin support
- No (standard) multitrack for recording audio

Jobless Drunk
Aug 6, 2004

One summer evening drunk to hell I sat there nearly lifeless

The Fog posted:

Is there a reason behind this? I can see why he would mix down the reece in mono, but I don't see a reason to do the rest in mono as well.

In an issue of Knowledge mag, he basically said that he mixed in mono because the mixes translated more universally. I recall he was also mixing on a single car stereo speaker. I think the idea was that the sound systems his tunes get played on vary in size and quality, so he mixed for the lowest common denominator. This was a couple years ago, so his approach may have changed since then.

Mannie Fresh
Jul 2, 2006

Kai was taken posted:

I want to put some short + and -'s for the software suites linked in the top, just to give an idea, I was thinking two of each for pro's and con's, or three and two or whatever, just as long as it's the same for all of them.


EG

Pro Tools
+ Most "standard" software suite around
+ Comes with an audio interface
+ Higher end models include an excellent plugin suite (T-Racks)
- Requires proprietary hardware to run, which can cause problems with laptops
- "LE" version has limited tracks, the next up version is very expensive

Live
+ Excellent workflow and ease of use
+ Can play Live performances
+ Midi to keyboard (Believe me it's a definite pro)
- No included synths (available for purchase as extras)
- Included Effect Plugins could be improved immensely

Reason
+ Incredibly flexible routing options
+ Ability to make great tracks right out of the box.
- No plugin support
- No (standard) multitrack for recording audio

FL Studio
+ Incredibly Easy workflow (Easier than Live in most regards)
+ Midi to Keyboard
+ Easiest Multi-Channel Midi routing available
- Included plugins and samples leave something to be desired
- Windows based only

Something like that?

Cyne
May 30, 2007
Beauty is a rare thing.

ThaNinjaMonkey posted:

- Included Effect Plugins could be improved immensely

Huh, that's funny, I like Live's effects so much I barely use anything else for signal processing except some Sonalksis plug-ins (love that TBK filter), so I will have to heavily disagree with this.

Mannie Fresh
Jul 2, 2006

Cyne posted:

Huh, that's funny, I like Live's effects so much I barely use anything else for signal processing except some Sonalksis plug-ins (love that TBK filter), so I will have to heavily disagree with this.

I was raised on Waves, so my expectations might be way too high.

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Cyne
May 30, 2007
Beauty is a rare thing.

ThaNinjaMonkey posted:

I was raised on Waves, so my expectations might be way too high.

Ah, heh, that might explain it.

For me a big part of the appeal in Live is definitely a function of the specific kind of music I produce. I make techno with an ambient/dub edge and basically creamed myself at seeing not less than four delay units. Basically I think for most kinds of electronic music they're perfectly functional and if you don't like them can still at least make decent stand-ins until you get some new plug-ins. For me they're perfect though.

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