The "how do I make electronic/club/DJ music" Megathread!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > No More Drake > Musician's Lounge > The "how do I make electronic/club/DJ music" Megathread!

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The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

I Dig Gardening posted:

What do ya'll use to organize your drum samples in Logic/Pro Tools? I'm a diehard simpler in Live kinda guy, with seperated tracks for EVERY indivdual drum hit.. but now I'm attempting to learn Logic and quickly learning I don't know what the gently caress to do with drums once I've lost my precious Simpler and Impulse. I'm thinking about just straight up putting them all in as audio tracks.. but working with fills just sounds horrendous without MIDI.

And I really hate iDrum, Drumagog, all of that bullshit. I HAVE to have separated tracks for all of my drum parts. Anyone have a neat solution for this in Logic?

NI Battery

Stux posted:

Uh just load up multiple ESX24s? Why do you want each hit on a seperate track by the way?

Cleaner and easier to mix!

# ¿ Oct 21, 2008 22:36

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 17:28

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

cLin posted:

Well in that case are there any websites or books you guys recommend for someone who hasn't dabbled in music? Something that starts from telling about terminology and proceeding from there?

http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Music-Manual-Second-techniques/dp/0240521072/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224717795&sr=8-1

# ¿ Oct 23, 2008 00:23

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Sounds like a note tracking filter to me. Look up "key follow". That will change (modulate) the filter cutoff frequency depending on which note is played.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2008 22:58

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

cubicle gangster posted:

Thats twice i've wanted something I thought was a long way off and you've mentioned buzz, i'm going to have to have a serious look at that tonight...

AFAIK, FL Studio does this out of the box.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2008 01:03

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

I have M-Audio Oxygen 49 and think it's quite good! I used Creative Prodikeys before that and compare to the Oxygen, Prodikeys was poo poo. Keys were too small, no weight at all. Oxygen has just been a breeze so far. It just feels so right to play it.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2008 23:07

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Nigel Tufnel posted:

If I've got �100 ($150) to spend on a MIDI controller for reason is an M-Audio Axiom 25 my best bet?

Doesn't seem like much else falls in my price bracket though I've heard some people had problems with the knobs breaking.

Try the Oxygen-series instead. Much cheaper.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2008 10:48

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

A MIRACLE posted:

I am a huge nub. Should I give each drum sound its own track or mix them all on the same track? Using Logic-Ultrabeat if that changes anything.

EDIT: ALSO how do I make that stutter effect with samples? I think that sounds really cool.

Every timbre on its own channel is my preferred method. Gives more control over the mix. There's nothing stopping you from bussing out all the drums into one group once that's done though.

Stutter-effect can be achieved either by bouncing the audio and cutting-pasting it or by using something like dBlue Glitch (VST): http://illformed.org/blog/glitch/

# ¿ Nov 25, 2008 23:42

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

squidgee posted:

I'm not sure if this should go here or in the "(re)create a sound" thread, but I just got Massive and I'm going nuts trying to get a decent distorted meaty bass out of it (aka the Electro House bass). I've got some neat percussive plucks going, but the bass is totally eluding me.

For reference, here is what I have going right now:

Needless to say it sounds like total poo poo. Anyone have any pointers for me (slash any suggestions for what sort of bass might sound good with what I have going currently, because I just semi-randomly chose the distorted bass sound)?

For the electro house bassline you usually want 2 oscillators (square). One of them should be 0 octaves and 0 semitones and the other one should be +1 octave and either +4, +5 or +7 semitones.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2008 12:00

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Symptomless Coma posted:

It's sad that certain elements of the creative process are so drat formulaic... but then what's new? Scales work like that. The drat colour wheel works like that. Strange though...

To be fair, working in genres is pretty formulaic. Personally, I don't think getting the bassline sound is part of the creative process, because in order to make it work for the genre, you gotta stick to the formula. The creative process for me starts when the formulaic process ends. That is, if you know the basis for the bassline, there's nothing stopping you from mixing and matching with other timbres, using modulation, filters, automation, distorting etc. There's a world of ideas out there, you just gotta get the foundation right.

Speaking of foundation; I like to think of making music as building a house.
Every house (track) needs a solid foundation (formula). Once the foundation is done, you can build whatever you want (creativity) on top of that.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2008 19:08

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Kai was taken posted:

What's the best way to simulate outdoor reverb? Not like out-in-the-alps delay, but just a generic outdoors.

Every time I try to use reverb to emulate an outdoor space, it ends up sounding like a gigantic room.

I am using Live's built-in reverb though, so that may account for part of it.

Try a convolution reverb. Those are usually quite accurate.
Altiverb springs to mind.
You'll have a hard time getting a decent real-life sound from an algorithmic reverb.

# ¿ Dec 25, 2008 16:54

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

squidgee posted:

I just found an old copy of Computer Music I had bought like a year and a half ago (when I was first getting into music), popped the DVD into my computer, and lo and behold it was the issue with ZerbaCM. I remember installing it back in the day and not knowing what the gently caress, but now I can see it's a loving awesome synth. Do yourself a favor and track down the back issue, its totally worth it. I'm having a blast with it.

Here's a snippit from my current WIP using Zebra for the analog sounding pad that's one of the first sounds I programmed with the thing:

ZebraCM and all of the other CM Studio tools are included in every issue, so there's no need for a back issue. In fact, if you buy the newest issue you'll have a lot more new instruments

# ¿ Dec 27, 2008 17:29

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

IanTheM posted:

Made a bit of a b-more song (that is to say, I sampled Think (About It)). Just wanted some commentary on the general production (kicks layered alright?) and if there's enough general excitement in the track.

All these comments are to be taken with a grain of salt, since I don't know much about the genre you're doing:
- First thing I noticed is that every kick sounds different to the one before that. If I'm not mistaken, it sounds like you have a really high-pitched hihat in the background. Personally, I wouldn't do it, because it just becomes one of those things you can't unhear once you've noticed it. The simplest solution is to just remove that hihat.

3 bars into the song you start with a new element. You should probably wait until 4 bars before you introduce anything new unless it's something to indicate that the next part is about to start.
7 bars into the song you introduce another element, which should be introduced at bar 8.
1 bar after that you introduce the clap which is fine there, except it sounds unnatural now since both synths that you had were introduced too early. So if you fix those, this should be fine.
4 bars after that you take away all the previous elements. Just leave them in there instead.
I'm afraid I don't have more time right now, but try fixing those things to start off with and take it from there.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2009 10:10

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

A MIRACLE posted:

Is it ok to put a limiter on the master fader?

Yes and no.
It's okay to use it as a preview-tool to see what your mix will end up sounding like once you've mixed it properly. It's not okay to use it when you're mixing your track, because it gives you an unreal idea of how the track actually sounds.
What I do is to use a limiter when I'm working on anything but the mix. Then when I start mixing my tracks I'll turn the limiter off, reset all my levels and turn up the speakers and start mixing.
When that's done, the limiter is still off and I either have the choice of getting it professionally mastered or making a master myself, which includes a limiter anyways.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2009 07:13

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Yoozer posted:

Synth1 of course

Tabs are actually really nice interface elements when used well - it's not like you're going to have to see obscure modulation routings all the time.

My vote goes to NI Massive.

I agree with both of these!
Synth1 is very good, because you have everything right in front of you. The ease of use is both a blessing and a curse, because it's a good beginner's synth, but you may have some trouble using the more complex synths from the get go.

Massive is very good if you want to dive deep into synthesizers and synthesis because it allows you to route all kinds of stuff to all kinds of places. It sounds awesome, too!

So I'd say start off with Synth1 to cover the basics. When you understand how it works (not how to use it) you could switch to Massive.

Other good alternatives for complex synthesis are (imho) z3ta+ and Surge.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2009 09:28

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

I use T-RackS 3 for DJ tools, rather than Ozone.
T-RackS is great because you can smash that track through the roof with that limiter and clipper.
Makes my tracks even louder and dynamically flatter than anyone else's. Great for when DJing.

Oh yeah, please don't comment with "but what about dynamics, duuude?"
Obviously, if you want dynamics, just turn down the limiter. If you want a proper master, send the track to an ME, but if you're just using it as a DJ tool, having it as loud as possible can help a lot. Especially since some event-owners will turn down the master volume for anyone who's not a headliner or part of their label. Yes, this does happen unfortunately.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2009 21:26

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Pegnose Pete posted:

I have a gear question:
I'm looking around for a used synthesizer and I'm stuck between the Korg DW-8000 and the Roland SH-201. I love the 201's modern compatibility for things like VSTs and USB, but I could save myself about 100 bucks if I buy the DW-8000.

For reference
SH-201
DW-8000

I can't say anything about the DW-8000, but I've heard the SH-201 is sort of like the JP-8080, except it feels a bit cheaper. What are you going to use the synths for?
JP-8080 is pretty popular in EDM.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2009 23:42

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Three Red Lights posted:

Sort of a stupid question but I remember seeing a video of some guy working on a DAW a little while back, he was doing some eq'ing and he did it by moving the mouse and "carving" the eq, like if you wanted a mid boost you would just sweep the mouse in an arc and the lows and highs would be cut off where the mouse moved.

What program was it? I have no intention of changing from ableton any time soon but I remember seeing that and thinking "oh man that is so loving sweet".

Do you mean Har-Bal?

# ¿ Feb 4, 2009 13:33

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Anacostia posted:

I've gotten the point where I can think of (or whatever) a sound in my head and transpose that onto the mechanical workings of a synth. I still have real trouble with making bass patches, however. I conceptually don't understand how artists get bass sounds that just gently caress your mind when you hear them. I know that's a sort of crappy description but I don't know how else to describe it. I feel as if my basses lack weight or they aren't "fat" enough.

Here's an example of what I mean. I apologize for the track (and youtube), it was just something that came on a couple minutes ago and is still fresh in my mind. Obviously this isn't the only sort of bass sound I'm trying to emulate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7o6gQmtMxU&feature=related

I realize this question is sort of abstract and vague but I would appreciate any help.

If it matters I use reason (thor) rewired into live.

And as a sort of unrelated postscript, my friend bought a voyager (rme) and it is getting here tomorrow. I've never played on an analog synth, am super excited.

e; Also, can anyone recommend another forum that has discussion similar to this thread? I find just reading about production helps me sometimes.

Sounds almost like a donk, but I could be way off here.
It's just that I associate the woody clicking sound in the beginning with a donk.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2009 12:09

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

colonp posted:

I'm looking for a vst or something that lets me preview samples without loading them first, ala what you can do with Redrum in Reason. Any free stuff that does that? I'm using Reaper by the way.

Non-free VST: NI Battery
Non-free DAW with OOTB-support: Cubase

# ¿ Feb 26, 2009 22:51

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

So I just upgraded from Cubase SX3 to Cubase 5.
I'm wondering how I can export .fxp-presets from a VST. The old way, where you click on the little disk and choose Export Preset, doesn't work anymore

e: Scratch that... I found you can right-click the preset and choose to view in explorer...
Which brings me to my next question: .vstpreset to .fxp anyone?

The Fog fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 27, 2009

# ¿ Feb 27, 2009 20:33

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Yoozer posted:

Pitch-bending would require a lot more work and precision, and these producers are lazy

I was flabbergasted when I was first realizing that, but it's really true!
During the years, it has been reaffirmed to me, over and over again, that the best approach to sounding like a certain artist is to just be lazy and use shortcuts wherever possible.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2009 02:57

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

evilocity posted:

Why do you guys produce electronic music, and what styles attract you most?

Not to get too art-faggy about it, but I really like the way techno seems to progress without actually going anywhere, and it strikes me as an apt metaphor for a lot of life, so if there is something 'ordinary' to try to work out in musical form, techno seems to be the way to do it. That is certainly a lot of the allure for me. It also seems to be a good place to flex nuts in a subtle way rather than the over the top wankery that comes with try to show off in rock, hip-hop, or what have you.

Just trying to get an idea of what drives a lot of these tracks. You often hear artist in other genres running off at the mouth about what inspires them, but when you get to the electronic guys, they tend to say something along the lines of "I heard some and I liked it, so I made more of it"

Anyone else? Am I retarded?

Just a little bit retarded, because you're comparing apples and oranges!
Production is not the same thing as performance.

When you say techno, I take it you mean EDM (Electronic Dance Music).

From a performance POV, you're absolutely right, in my opinion: Rock is more fun than EDM, because in EDM you usually don't perform stuff, whereas in rock you do!

From a production POV, EDM is much more exciting than any acoustic genre. You have all the synths, VSTs, samples and effects in the WORLD at your disposal, so you're not limited to the same old tired: guitar, bass, drums, keyboard, vocals.

Producing a rock track is pretty boring. You just record the performers, EQ a bit, compress a bit. Not really a whole lot you can do as a producer.
In EDM, you create the sounds from scratch, can tweak every little detail, add more new exciting sounds, warp and twist the poo poo out of stuff - just to see what you end up with!

So to sum it up: I personally think producing EDM is much more fun, because you get so much more freedom than you would in any acoustic genre.

Now, what I suspect you also were talking about is the musicality of EDM.
I'll be talking about the general popular music here, so don't get angry if I didn't mention Aphex Twin or Coldplay.

You're right, EDM isn't very complex from a musical perspective most of the time. Cascada's songs for example are fairly simple, but then again, so were the Ramones. How many chords did the Ramones use to make music that millions of listeners enjoyed?
Simple music isn't necessarily boring music and complex music isn't necessarily fun music. It's subjective!

It's just music. Different cups of tea!

# ¿ Mar 3, 2009 15:42

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

h_double posted:

That's a little bit like saying "painting portraits is boring, you're limited to just faces" -- but yet within that one simple subject you can have everything from Rembrandt to Picasso to Warhol.

Look at something like 1970s dub reggae -- King Tubby, Scientist, Lee 'Scratch' Perry -- which is a HUGE HUGE influence upon modern music, everything from DJ culture to punk. They were producing simple pop songs, the same old guitar/bass/drum/keys/vocals, and by way of creative use of the mixing board (plus a couple of spring reverbs, tape delays, etc.) they invented a whole new style of music. The producer had suddenly also become a composer and performer.

It's sort of tough to directly compare a rock producer to an EDM producer, because the latter blurs the lines even further between composition, engineering, and musicianship. A rock producer sometimes takes a relatively transparent role, but can have a huge influence upon a band's sound. Go listen to albums like Sgt. Pepper and Dark Side of the Moon, and how much is going on with the production (and in the case of Sgt. Pepper, keep in mind George Martin did it all with four tracks of tape). Listen to Phil Spector's production on the Ronnettes' "Be My Baby", then go listen to some albums produced by Rick Rubin and Butch Vig and Eno, and think about how much diversity there is just recording the same old instruments.

This is all relevant to electronic musicians because if that much diversity is possible with guitars and drums, think about how much MORE you ought to be able to do when you can conjure sounds wholly from thin air (in a similar vein, lately I have been digging into the Classic Tracks archives from Sound on Sound which is full of interesting lore).

Yes, you are quite right about what you're saying. It was merely an attempt at showing how much more freedom you have as an EDM producer compared to a rock producer.
What I was trying to say was that as a rock producer you have to make the best with what you've been given, whereas as an EDM producer you can make the best with what you've chosen.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2009 16:46

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

I have some questions regarding mixing, chord progressions, and overall structure of dance music. These might be obvious and ridiculous questions, but here they are. (For reference, I make electro/progressive house in the style of my hero, Deadmau5.)

Structure Questions:

Do kick drums have a tone? As in, that kick is G#, etc. When I put a tuner plugin on the track it seems to indicate that there is indeed a discernible tone being generated, not noise. Is this perceivable by the human ear? Is it something I should worry about in terms of melody and, most importantly, bass line? The interaction between the kick and the bass is very important, and I want to get it right.

They DO have a tone, but you don't have to worry about it. The kick drum is considered a percussive instrument rather than a melodic instrument.
If you have problems with your kick interfering with your bass even when you're sidechaining, try to make the release time of the kick shorter. All pros do this AFAIK, so it's a tried and true technique.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

Are there any rules in terms of creating bass lines and melodies? I try to make them 8 bars long, but sometimes I make them two, four, or even one bar in duration. When this happens I try to combine them into an overall 8 bar structure with a crash or something at the end of the 8 bars to make sure it all wraps up. I've noticed that with this approach that the shorter the loop is the faster is gets boring/repetitive. Should I avoid shorter loops all together and focus on making longer, more complex melodies and bass lines?

This depends a bit on the genre you're making, but listen to what others do and you'll find that most melodies are 8 bars long and sometimes the are 4 bars long, but repeated once with a slight variation to make it 8 bars and sometimes it's just 4 bars long period. 8 bars is the most common in the music I've heard.
You can also make a melody 16 bars, but then you're probably doing a bit more progressive music. I wouldn't go there until I feel comfortable doing 8 bar loops.
What you'll find a lot is that there's key changes every 2nd bar in 8 bar loops, and every bar in 4 bar loops. It's quite common to just use 4 bars.
Don't let this limit yourself, but keep these guidelines in mind when doing your melodies. Sometimes it really helps to know what the common approach is.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

On a guitar I know that I can't go wrong with a I-IV-V progression. It always sounds good. Is this applicable to electronic dance music? Creating strong and interesting melodies is my greatest weakness, in my opinion. Any help in this area is greatly appreciated.

Are most electronic dance music chord progressions/melodies major or minor? Does anyone have any advice in terms of general musical composition as applied to electro/progressive house? I'm taking community college theory classes this semester, but the class doesn't discuss actual applications of the things we've learned yet, at least not in any way I can apply to my dance music productions.

Mostly minor.
Again, listen to other tracks in your genre, copy the chord progression, alter it to your liking and make melodies around it. Chord progressions aren't copyrighted and you're free to steal them. You'll notice that most music you hear uses the same chord progressions, just like with I-IV-V.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

Production Questions:

When I go about creating bass tracks my methodology is thus: I synthesize what I mentally label as the "upper bass", which is above ~120Hz, and a "lower bass", which is below it. The lower bass is essentially a sine wave, slightly modified to give it a more interesting timbre. When they combine, the lower bass is more sub sounding and the upper bass is more audible. I sidechain them both to the kick so that they don't conflict with the kick. I seem to get good results with this approach, but it doesn't sound anywhere near the quality that I hear on other people's records. What am I doing wrong?

This depends on what you're trying to achieve. If you could post a clip of what you want it to sound like and a clip of how far you've gotten, maybe we could give some guidelines.
What quality are you missing in your basses?

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

What is a maximizer? Is it just another name for a limiter? I'm using Live 7 and there doesn't seem to be a limiter native to Live, at least that I can readily find. I've been using the compressor with aggressive settings to act like a limiter. Is this acceptable? It doesn't seem to work very well. In fact, it seems to work very poorly. Are there any plugins that I can use in this application? If it's worth it I'll definitely shell out some $ for quality software.

I'm not really sure about this, but I think it's a multiband limiter. The ones wayfinder mentioned are quite commonly used.
T-RackS 3 has one as well, which is quite good, imho, but your mileage may vary.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

Does anyone have any advice on EQing? Once I have the track arranged how I want it the next step I take it to try and EQ the individual tracks so that the mix is as clear as I can get it. Is this typical? I've had limited success with this approach. It's my understanding that the principle behind EQing is that you want to cut out frequencies on certain tracks in order to make room for the frequencies on other tracks, which would be boosted to stand out even more. Utilization of side chain compression in order to duck tracks at certain times seems to yield better results then EQing, which leads me to think that I'm EQing poorly or incorrectly.

When you EQ you have to keep the arrangement in mind and vice versa.
For example, if you have pads that are never gonna be played at the same time as the kick and bass or any other prominent bassy track, there's no need to low cut it.
What I personally do is to low cut everything (somewhere around 150-300Hz depending on the EQ I've used) except for the kick and bass and then I don't need much more. I'll give the high mids a little boost on the elements that I want to stick out and give the low mids a little cut on the elements that I want to sit in the background.
Just make sure you know what elements are the most important ones.
Usually the order to level your tracks is:
Kick
Bass
Vocals
Lead
Everything else
So keep this in mind when EQing.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

I'm using the EQ Eight device in Live. When I view the signal with Spectrum it seems that the EQ Eight doesn't attenuate the signal very quickly, even at a 48dB attenuation setting. Is there a way to have the signal completely cut out at certain frequency ranges?

No, but that doesn't matter because it wouldn't sound very good anyways. The pros, whose mixes you enjoy, are using the same tools you do. Just learn how they use them.
A more technical explanation is this:
Whenever you use a filter, it doesn't filter the signal completely. You can have steeper cuts by using more poles. Each pole will attenuate the signal 6dB (or 12dB, I can't remember really) but filters that are too steep don't sound very good, imho.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

Spectrum seems to be visually deceiving to me. When the level meter is peaking out towards 0dB, Spectrum displays even the highest part of the visualization as coming in at less than that. Is this due to the fact that the level is the sum of all frequency ranges, and that when viewed in a graphical way it is simply displaying that highest level of the individual frequencies that comprise it?

Yes, that seems like a reasonable explanation.
To try this out, use a synth that generates a pure sine-wave at 0dB and check in the spectrum display if it peaks at 0dB.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

I want my kicks to sound as full and lush as possible, but it seems like I have to utterly gut the frequencies above 120Hz in order to make room for the other tracks to come through. Is the solution to sidechain practically everything to the kick in order to deconflict them by time? (I'm hesitant to do this because of the effect it will have on the overall sound or the track. I think it sounds like it's "pumping" too much.) Or is it possible with very careful and precise EQing to allow all the tracks to come through without compromising the full sound of all of the component tracks?

Remember, the kick is the most prominent part of the track. If you have a conflict with the kick and something else, guess which track is the conflicting one that needs EQ? That's right... Not the kick track.
Instead of cutting everything above 120Hz on the kick track, try cutting everything BELOW 120Hz on EVERYTHING BUT the kick track. Make sense?

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

Is there a multiband compressor native to Live? The compressor seems to only effect the entire track. Can anyone recommend me a nice multiband compressor that I can use to selectively sidechain and duck specific frequency ranges?

I don't use Live myself, so I can't really answer that specific question but I wouldn't necessarily use a multiband compressor on a track, but rather on subgroups. After all, you have the choice of EQ and single-band compression, which is even better than multiband compression.
Using a multiband compressor does have its uses, but I think your mixing problems lie in the fundamental mixing areas, so concentrate on that first.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

I love Ableton Live. I use it as a performance tool as well as a DAW, and I find the workflow to be smooth and utterly organic. The only thing I have to criticize about it is that it seems to lack precision tools for mixing/mastering. I'm fairly content with the sound design/arranging in my productions, but at the end of the whole process I feel that my tracks are too muddy. I want it to sound clean, clear, and professional. Could the solution be to arrange the tracks in Live, and then export all the tracks and then mix/master them in another DAW like Cubase or Logic? I'm interested in Cubase, and I intend to purchase it in the near future just to experiment with it in general.

Again, I don't know Live, so I can't really comment, but yeah, sometimes the tools aren't that good. If I were you I would try out different tools (for example different compressors, different EQs) and ask myself which I get better mixes with. If I can't get good mixes with tools that are KNOWN to be good, then it's probably me who's to blame.

OMGWTFAOLBBQ posted:

Thank you for your time and effort in reading and answering my questions.

No worries

# ¿ Mar 24, 2009 17:57

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

wayfinder posted:

How does that help with clashing treble?

Either you or I misunderstood his question, but to me he didn't seem to have any problems with clashing trebles.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2009 19:01

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

wayfinder posted:

I understood it this way because he wanted to cut the kick's treble, presumably to make room for something else...

Aye, I know what you mean. TBH, we can't really tell which track is the conflicting one, because he hasn't uploaded a clip, so all we can do is guess what the problem is.
From my personal experience, the kicks I mainly use (VEC) are all very well equalized and don't really need any EQing, so I try to work the tracks around my kick, rather than the other way around.

h_double posted:

Especially if you're using a typical 808/909/electronic sounding kick, it should be in tune with the key of the song. If your kick is anything other pure white noise, it will interact harmonically with other parts of the song. It's not something that's likely to sound horribly dissonant, but having your kick in tune with everything else is a simple little thing you can do which will help the track sound tighter and more pro in a subtle yet noticable way.

I'm not sure I agree with tuning the kick.
Most of the time, you'll be using sampled kicks and as such you'll lose quality AND transients if you pitch the kick up or down.
If, however, for some reason, you're using a synth to make a kick (i.e. your genre more or less requires it), then by all means go ahead and tune the kick if you want.
In genres like Gabber, the kick is very tonal (because it's so long) and as such it should be synthesized AND tuned.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2009 01:25

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

h_double posted:

I want to put together a (sampled) drum kit where for several of the drum hits I have multiple pitched samples. I would like to still have (for example) all snare hits triggered by MIDI note D1, but I would like to be able to use a MIDI CC or something to select different pitched samples of that same hit.

The best idea I've been able to come up with is to map the different pitch samples to different velocity zones, so that more velocity = higher pitch. I could then route the drum hits to individual tracks, and use the track volume to change the volume of the drum sounds. This is not hugely complicated but is still sort of clunky.

Any ideas for how I could do this more elegantly? I'd like to do it Kontakt or Battery (to be portable across apps), but I also have Ableton Live 7 + Ableton Sampler on hand.

Sorry dude, I think you're out of luck there.
All samplers that I know of will only let you choose the sample by the maps and the maps are only triggered through the MIDI note.
Why do you want to do this anyway? Can you not use pure audio instead? Or maybe assign the different keys instead?
How many drum sounds are we talking here anyway?

# ¿ Apr 3, 2009 05:03

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

h_double posted:

A lot of classic drum machines (like an 808 or 909) have tuneable drum sounds, where there's more going on than a simple pitch shift of a sample. And if I've got a beat with a standard MIDI drum map, I don't want to have to do a bunch of crazy note reprogramming just to get it to map to one specific kit.

I'm sure I can build something in Reaktor or Synthedit, I just wanted to figure out if there was an easier way before I put together something from scratch.

Ah, yeah! You make a very good point!
Maybe it would be easier to find something like an emulator for that specific drum machine?
Then again, those come at a price.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2009 17:15

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Kai was taken posted:

Is a convalescent (whatever the hell it's called) reverb really worth it?

Convolution and yes!
I usually use convolution reverb for acoustic elements and algorithmic reverb for synthetic elements, but you can do it either way.
Convolution sounds really authentic, but a lot of tracks use algorithmic reverbs (like the Lexicon 480) so that may be the sound you're ultimately after.

Either way, you should get at least 1 high quality reverb of each category and learn the sound of them and see what works for each specific track.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2009 11:20

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

toadee posted:

Can't you give a convolution reverb an impulse file taken from an algorithmic reverb and then just emulate it? Understandably you'd need to have multiple settings to cover the range of stuff the algorithmic verb is going to do, but that could simplify your life if you want to just run with one.

Yes, they can and they actually do!
In Altiverb there's even a category for "Gear," which emulates an amount of hardware, as well.
The only downside is the CPU-usage and flexibility.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2009 16:10

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

quake_and_quake_and posted:

Despite my worries about the way my song sat in audacity, I've dispelled my fear by pulling up a Danger song and doing a side-by-side comparison. Apparently I'm doing it right!

If you don't know if you're doing right, then you probably aren't.
Is your song distorting or is it compressed?
Are you comparing your unmastered or mastered work with the Danger-song?
Also, the waveforms say little about the actual sound at that level of detail.
And the waveforms say nothing about the frequency spectrum or the stereo-image or the perceived loudness.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2009 23:34

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

RizieN posted:

There would be electronic music if there weren't any gays, there would also be rock and roll if there wasn't Elvis. It would just be a little different.

If anything the whole "gay house" movement kind of made electronic music bland and uninteresting. Just simple pftcha pftcha pftcha pftcha boom boom-repeat that anybody could dance to, and almost anybody can make.

But I'm more interested in psychedelic wobbles and space engine shpongles and dmt trip music, so take that for what it's worth.

Hahaha, your post only reveals how little you know about music!

# ¿ Jun 4, 2009 13:07

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Kai was taken posted:

What are the oscillators/detune/filter settings for the lead in Insomnia?

I keep ending up with acid.

That's a chorded pizzicato sample drenched in reverb. No oscillators necessary

# ¿ Jun 15, 2009 07:05

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Dicky B posted:

How is Cubase 5? I just discovered I can get it discounted as a student. I've been using FL Studio and Reason for years and Cubase is the only other DAW I've really liked the look of. I can't seem to find a demo though.

I have C5 and I love it to bits. The whole workflow has gotten a lot better. I used CSX3 before that. I reckon that if it's good enough for the pros, it's good enough for me.
The plugins that come with it now are of really high quality, also, so that's a welcome change.
Plus it has a Melodyne-clone and a convolution reverb built-in. Can't really complain about that, IMHO.

I recommend you try it out with someone else who has used it for a while, just to get an idea of the workflow, etc. and if you like it, go buy it.

I should probably add that in my experience, I've not heard about anyone going back to FL after switching to Cubase. I've heard a lot of examples the other way around though.

Hope that helps in your decision making.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2009 22:35

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

What I would suggest you to do is to try to recreate the same sounds from other tracks in that genre.
While this may not be very original, it will give you a good idea of what sounds to look for. Once you've nailed that, you'll be able to trust your ears in selecting new sounds.

I used to have the same problem where I really liked my drums but all the synth sounds were terrible. Once I nailed every single standard-sound in that genre, my ability to select good sounds improved a shitload.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2009 18:28

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

chippy posted:

Quick question for Cubase (5) users: I have a guitar loop running through a retrigger VST. The effect has some random elements to its operation so I'm getting different results from it every time I play the track. I'd like to let the guitar loop run through the retrigger while recording the output of that for several measures so that I can cut the results up and re-arrange them as I like. What's the easiest way of achieving this? I don't have an outboard mixer of any sort. I've been trying to work out how to change the output of a track to another track rather than Stereo Out but I can't see how to do it.

Duplicate the audio as many times as you need it, export and reimport with the effect on.
OR
If you're using a VST to achieve that effect (like Glitch) then you could also do Audio->Plugins->Glitch and it would randomly arrange your guitar.
Hope that helps!

# ¿ Aug 1, 2009 02:36

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

chippy posted:

I am indeed using a VST for the effect, similar to glitch. I don't however see a Plugins item in my Audio menu?

Maybe this helps:

Does it look like that?

# ¿ Aug 2, 2009 12:34

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Quincy Smallvoice posted:

I doubt its that much faster. Maybe 5 seconds?

Set your keycommands up properly and learn to use them. Set locators with P, for example.

Well, exporting always takes a lot more time than just processing in place.
First you need to set the locators, then you need to make sure everything is at unity gain, with nothing on the master bus, then you need to choose a filename to export to, then you need to reimport it, then you need to place it inside your project. Takes a lot more than 5 secs usually.
Also processing in place lets you undo whatever you did, whereas exporting won't let you do that.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2009 18:59

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

Yeah, you can export it to a new track, but you still have to place it everywhere you want it. :S
I mean, say you have a drumloop that you want to put through a chorus-effect. You have to export that one and copy/paste it over the whole song.
If you just process the sample instead, it's already done for you and will just replace every instance.

This is extremely time consuming and KILLS the whole mood, especially once you notice "Oh crap, I forgot to use this one effect in the chain" and have to re-export everything again.

Audio->Plugins is great for creativity and personally, I wouldn't be able to live without it. It's a great time-saver and I KNOW I would avoid a lot of trying/editing if it wasn't for that.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2009 22:26

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 17:28

The Fog: Oct 10, 2004; -I spent the whole day trying to pull a peanut from that heater vent. Turns out it was just a moth. -How was it? -Dry.

stun runner posted:

Can we talk about kick drums?

I feel like I can't really get mine to sound great... I'm just using some wav samples and Ableton's built-in EQ and compressor, and I can get it to sound okay but I'm never like "drat, that's a kick drum." I'd love any tips, recommendations for sample libraries, or links to good material about mixing/creating kick drums for dance music.

Get any of the "Vengeance Essential Clubsounds" sample CDs and you should be sorted.
http://www.vengeance-sound.de

# ¿ Sep 9, 2009 22:09

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > No More Drake > Musician's Lounge > The "how do I make electronic/club/DJ music" Megathread!

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