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Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Kai: might want to add https://www.thomann.de and https://www.musicstore.com to the list of where to buy poo poo for us eurofags :v:. This can be added to the starting post.

:sun: I want the best but it should be cheap

Yeah, you'd wonder why manufacturers then bother to make anything expensive, right? :v: Anyway, when you are looking for anything and you're starting out or you have already some experience, specify the following:

- A BUDGET IN NUMBERS OF EUROS OR DOLLARS. I cannot stress this enough; we don't know what you mean with "cheap" or "not too expensive". Give us a hard number and we'll give you a shopping list.
- poo poo YOU ALREADY OWN. This saves everyone the trouble of trying to spend your cash on the gear twice. This includes any computers.
- DIRECTION AND PURPOSE - Do you want to play live or just in the studio? Do you dislike computers for making music? Do you want to record guitars, drums, vocals or will you handle everything with synthesizers? Are you a guitar player and you want to make something like Radiohead, NIN, The Prodigy?

"The best" does not exist. "The best in your situation" is what exists. "Professional" exists, but it's not like using Cubase will make everything magically sound better than FL Studio; in fact, if you're used to FL, your Cubase stuff may sound worse for the first few months as you're busy figuring stuff out that you already knew in FL.

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Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Man vs Child posted:

midi's are those really crappy polyphonic ringtones
The part of what is crap is actually the little synthesizer in the phone itself, or the on-board soundcard of the computer. They contain a set of cheap, small samples called the "wavetable" (nothing to do with actual wavetables which are much cooler) and that's what you actually hear.

quote:

What are the goon opinions on the microKorg? is it right for what I want to do? are there better alternatives for what I want to do?
It's cute, small, runs on batteries, not easy to operate with only 5 knobs, if you're getting one - get it secondhand because there should be enough of those in the classifieds. Parts that suck: a very digital distortion effect, small keys. If you want something better but not too expensive or big, check out the Korg R3.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Additional warning: to find out the value of a synthesizer, completely ignore anything on Vintagesynth or any other synth site, because those haven't been updated in years.

Just hit eBay and the classifieds, search search search, and take a sane average.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Stux posted:

Can anyone recommend some free/cheapish VSTis?

Get this: http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=koreplayer
and this: http://www.yellowtools.us/cp21/cms/index.php?id=842
and this: http://vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php
and this: http://www.geocities.jp/daichi1969/softsynth/
and this: http://www.bostreammail.net/ers/polyiblit.html

Altoidss posted:

This is a crosspost from my own thread (should I close it?).

No, I'd just keep your music in your own thread, unless you have very specific questions, fragments, and screenshots of how you have handled it currently and what you want to achieve. Enhances the educational value of things :).

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
It's basically similar to Arturia's "Analog Factory" - e.g. lots of synths under the hood, but very limited ways to access them.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
and because that poo poo's hard, yo:

http://machines.hyperreal.org/samples.html

Akai used to have a nice bunch of samples called "Kit of the Week" thanks to Hollow Sun (who now do sample sets for the Alesis Fusion). Lots of vintage drumshit in there, too.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Packed Tightly posted:

I won't post my questions here because I have a whole heap of genre specific ones, but if there's anybody out there who'd be willing to give me a bit of advice/answer some questions, it'd stop me from going crazy trying to figure this poo poo out.

Since they're specific, just start a separate thread for it, then any good stuff can be merged back into this one, and everyone else can read it.

Anyway, for what you want to ask there's Dogs On Acid - a pretty big d'n'b forum where pretty much everything you could think of probably has been asked. It's just that several members have stupidly big signatures and retarded spelling.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Protip: don't quote the entire stuff, just do

WanderingKid posted:

:words:

Altoidss posted:

What kind of program are you using? I can't find anything in reason that lets me approach what you're doing here.

Synthesizing bassdrums yourself: http://e-phonic.com/plugins/ > "Drumatic". You can build your own bassdrums using Thor or even Subtractor, too, but generally you don't have to bother if you have the sample. I'll whip up something quick so you can see what actually happens, drum synthesis is a nice field of study.

Tuning bassdrums can be done in two ways:

- you use a wave editor (Audacity, Wavelab, SoundForge) where you can speed the sample itself up and down in a destructive fashion (e.g. you cannot reverse this without loss in quality). Sometimes this is exactly what you want.

- you have your bassdrum sample and a sampling plugin capable of pitching the sample up and down. In this case, the original is kept intact, but every time you play a higher note, the sample "engine" speeds up or slows down the sample in realtime.

Reading spectrum: get a plugin like Voxengo SPAN, it shows the spectrum. The spectrum is a graph where each vertical bar represents a small frequency range and its height represents the volume of that range. A single lonely bar is a sinewave.

None of the above will however work in Reason; all assume that you have a different program (FL Studio would do just fine for this) where you can check stuff like this.

quote:

Oh, also, is there a forum like Dogs on Acid for Electro or Progressive House?
Those forums do not necessarily help you, you know this? There's also a lot of misinformation there, if I can believe WanderingKid's words.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

WanderingKid posted:

I thought Yoozer posted one of them (some very weird reply about what portmento was which turned out to be totally wrong).
Just to make things clear for the rest: that reply wasn't mine ;).

quote:

I've seen many people confuse stereo separation with panning and advise other forum goers on this subject accordingly. Stereo separation is very different to panning and has its own set of problems that have to be dealt with accordingly.
And the worst thing is that they keep repeating it; either because they just haven't tried it, because they thought that the completely different thing was "how it was supposed to sound, I guess", or because they lack knowledge about the terminology.

If someone hands you any stuff about "well, just flip confabulator Y2 over there in non-linear mode and excite the mid-hi a bit with the astrolytical dynamicator", ask for evidence. If they can't reproduce it with a screenshot in Paint with some arrows on what to turn or where to watch for, or they can't show it in their homemade mp3, then it's worthless.

Here's a gabber drum in Thor, by the way:


edit: wtf, what's wrong with WaffleImages. uploaded on own server now.

By removing the distortion and playing with the Envelope settings you can make a whole lot of usable drum sounds.

Kai was taken posted:

They have an excellent app that will show you all MIDI/audio gear attached to your machine, all their inputs and outputs, and then allow you to manually adjust the routing between them.
Plus, Logic has some really nice and tight timing and deep editing options.

quote:

I don't have any gear hooked up right now or I'd take a screenie of it. Someone with an interface and some MIDI gear hooked up should take one.

Seriously, this is just loving sex.

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Mar 13, 2008

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

blingasaurus rex posted:

How do I turn my voice into a robot's voice, like Zapp and Roger or Daft Punk-type vocal effects?

This may be nice to add in the starting post.

:sun: Synthetic Vocals :sun:

- the Cher effect (Daft Punk - "One More Time") - that's the Antares Auto-Tune. Pretty infamous, not only because every no-talent jackass uses it but also because the producers of Cher lied through their teeth in a Sound On Sound interview to protect their "secret". This myth persisted for several years, and Sound On Sound eventually rectified it.

- the Zapp & Roger effect (Daft Punk - "Digital Love") - that's the Talkbox. How to make one for really really cheap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EIQxwotn3k - and a demo of the improved version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APgzky3RujA

- the vocoder (Kraftwerk - The Robots, ELO - Twilight, shitloads of more songs). There are several plugins for this, but the Prosoniq Orange Vocoder is pretty good for software (and was most likely used in Chicane ft. Brian Adams - Don't Give Up

- a Speak & Spell - (Kraftwerk - Numbers). This was a toy - a talking calculator made by Texas Instruments. Prices went up like crazy when people figured out what you could do with this in a musical context.

- an Atari (U96 - Das Boot). For this, see AnalogX SayIt > http://www.analogx.com/CONTENTS/download/audio/sayit.htm

- a Mac - (Hrvatski - Vatstep DSP.) - this is a slightly "whiny" voice.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
I have several other examples but that one was the fastest/easiest to recall. It's based on 606's "Catstep" apparently, but the basis seems some kind of reggae riddim.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Believe it or not, I've been toying with the idea, but just typing stuff out every single time took up my time :).

Besides, if I want to put it in some kind of official shape, I want to do it really really well. As in screenshots, illustrations, sound demos, etc.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

mezzir posted:

NEVARRRR WHAT ABOUT EPIC UPLIFTING VOCAL TRANCE?!

http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/music.swf

We've got that covered :colbert:

Ideally you'd consider each song separately; as it is probably the most accurate, but genres are a crutch with fuzzy borders and mismatching reference points.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Altoidss posted:

First, disco strings. I don't really know how to describe it but it's instantly recognizable and it's the high violin sounds that are always around in disco sounds.
Get the Houseworx sample CD from Ueberschall or this thing here:
http://www.ueberschall.com/en/products/details/view/disco_de_luxe.html

These have those violins as separate samples. Sample CDs aren't dirty; it's fine if you want to use it for things like that.

quote:

Second, how would I get the bass sound from the song Thriller? I love it and want to use it.
toadee's description is pretty good, though, but the Moogy character is something that not every run off the mill softsynth will do properly. I can probably do this with Thor - but when I'm back from work again :).

edit: and heeeere we go:

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Mar 21, 2008

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Audacity is mainly a wave editor.

Just test every demo version and see if you can get any sound out of those.

As for "all you need", yes; and a decent soundcard plus some good speakers if you want to listen to it in another place than just where your computer is.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Nord Micromodular if you can find 'm. Will require a MIDI interface, but the advantage is that you can decouple it after programming, take it to a gig, and with a MIDI controller you have one of the most vicious 1 to 4-voice synths you can think of, plus a bitching guitar stompbox.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
gently caress the 106.

No, seriously. The JX3P is in all aspects the better synth. No, it's not loaded with sliders, but it can do lots more.

Alpha Juno otherwise. Both of these things are ridiculously underrated, and while the 60 is really king, both of the above are better than the 106. Take this from someone who has owned every Juno, and I've kept the 60 and recently added an Alpha.

As for the Ion, the keyboard of the thing sucks. The rest is pretty drat cool, but not the keyboard.

toadee posted:

The Nord Modular platform is easily the greatest use I have ever seen for DSP.

Best part: add an old iMac with OS 9, install the editor, get a 2-port MIDI interface and VOILA, DEDICATED EDITOR.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Sevyplates posted:

I have been listening to Danger's 14H54 and I've been wanting to know how you make such a beautiful sound.
http://www.myspace.com/2emedanger

it's great that you provide an example

however it sort of sucks that you don't tell us at which time the sound can be heard

So, if you give us a time when this "beautiful" sound kicks in (I'm not one to judge :v: ) that'd be cool.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

SeraphSlaughter posted:

How would I go about creating some chiptune style stuff?

http://www.refx.de/?lang=en&page=products/quadraSID/summary
http://www.ymck.net/english/download/index.html

result with the latter and 10 minutes of work, 5 tracks in Ableton Live:

http://www.theheartcore.com/music/boss_stage.mp3

:sun: VIDEOGAME SOUNDS :sun:

Early consoles had limited audio hardware. If you want to make convincing chiptunes, 30 tracks with EQ and convolution reverb are not what you need. Yes - you can use multiple tracks, as long as you take care that no more than N sounds "overlap" at the same time, where "N" is the number of "voices" or "tracks" the system offered. This means you have to plan stuff in advance and think of creative voicings and solutions since chords just don't work that well.

Emulation
To study it, just playing the game on your old-beaten up console is not enough. Try to find GYM (Genesis) SPC, (SNES) and NSF (NES) sound files and listen to them without the effects. Many of these can either be converted to plain old MIDI files or have MIDI equivalents, which makes it easier for you to make remixes of any kind (hey, who cares if you're tonedeaf anyway, right :v: ).

Possible consoles
NES: 2 channels of pulse waves, 1 triangle wave (it has this high overtone because of the bandwidth. Fake it with a bitreducer), 1 noise channel and one channel that can do PCM (samples) and other tricks.

C64: SID chip, pretty advanced. Has filters and extensive modulation options. Can do samples, too, with creative hacking. 3 tracks plus a noise channel that could do some weird stuff. The C64 has a richer sound palette and a radically different way of doing sounds than the NES; not so much because the NES couldn't do C64-like stuff (check the game "Solstice" for this - I suspect the programmer wasn't unfamiliar with the C64) but because the entire culture was different.

SNES: sample-playback. Just get a lo-fi sampler, 8 bits, mono, 22khz, and pick short, looping waves or extract these from SPC files (SNES sound files) and you'll be fine. However, it's hard to do convincingly, unless you use a SNES soundfont. Check the link for a funky demo and the Reason files. You know I mentioned limitations: keep your samples as small as possible. This presents yet more of a challenge as you have to keep it below 64 kb for all the samples (some games get around this by loading soundsets from the cartridge every time they need it). If you need a capable sampler, check [urlhttp://vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php=]Vember Audio ShortCircuit[.url].

Genesis/Megadrive: has the Master System soundchip plus a 6-voice 6-part 4-op FM synthesizer. This makes all those bright, metallic and glassy sounds. DiscoDSP Discovery or Native Instruments FM8 (just don't use the last 2 operators or the filters) will help you out. For hardware, there's the cheap-as-chips, tough-to-program but true-to-structure 8 voice 8 part 4-op FM synthesizer called the Yamaha TX81z. It's got the advantage of having more waveforms than just the sine, so you could make some 1-operator saw or square wave presets that would take up the role of the Master System sound chip.

Master System: Sort of like the NES, only different.

Everything newer: gently caress you, those things use CD audio.

Polyphony
Of course, back then that limit sucked, too, so here's how they got around it:

- arpeggio - this is the typically "blippy" sound of the Commodore 64.
- fast switching - this works especially well with drums. In the old age they basically switched presets (the settings) really really fast on a single track or left miniscule gaps to give the illusion of multiple instruments playing at the same time.

Chorus
Some sounds have this shimmering chorus effect. That's simply sacrificing 2 tracks so they play at the same time, but detune one oscillator subtly from the other. This, combined with hard left and right panning, gives you pseudo-stereo chorus.

Delay
This is simply repeating the same note after say, 1/8th or 3/16th note with a lower volume. Make sure that you don't overlap stuff too much; respect the track limit.

Reverb
This is perhaps the tricky one, but you can fake reverb-like effects by putting a sound at a high volume, then you reduce the volume to 15-20% and leave the sound playing. So you get a LOUDquiet kind of thing per note.

On the Megadrive this is easier; as you reduce the modulation of the FM, the sound is more like a sinewave, so you get a free filtering-like effect thrown in with it.

EQ
On the NES, you could fake this with pulsewidth. The square waves offer 50%, 25% and 12.5% "duty cycles". The names "square" and "pulse" are interchangeable like "square" and "rectangle" are. As you can see here, the part of the wave that's "up" and the part that is "down" isn't equal. If they are, then it's called a "50% pulsewave", or a 50% "duty cycle". A narrow wave will sound more nasal and "thinner", so if you want to make filter or EQ-like effects, use that.

Variation
Don't play the melody with the same sound all the time. Vary it - like, play the chorus with a 50% pulse, play the verse with a 25% pulse. Use arpeggios to make people think more instruments are playing than actually are. Don't put everything at the same volume; many composers had classical backgrounds and the limits forced them not only to be really creative with thinking of melodies that didn't make you want to ram your head through the TV but also with dynamics.

Expression
Imagine a violin player; usually they at a little "trill" (vibrato) to the end of a note (not every time, because that just drives you nuts and it's unnecessary flourish). This is done by routing an LFO to the pitch, and using a delay (or automating the influence of the LFO with the modulation wheel or a knob). Just play the note and let the LFO gradually kick in.

Coin/Mushroom
Listen to slowed-down versions of sound effects to figure out what exactly is happening. These are little sonic artworks, short 3 or 4-tone melodies transposed up and down with volume changes, sometimes atonal. Can't catch this crap in 16th notes, no sir.

Generic computer sounds
These bleeps and bloops are made by putting a so-called S&H LFO routed to the pitch. This one has a randomized waveform that looks blocky and is either signified by the icon of such a blocky wave or the text "S&H" (which means "Sample and Hold"). See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsLIHfG9UwU (the first 30 seconds or so).

NES sounds
As you can see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NES#Audio the NES' audio hardware isn't that spectacular. The above linked YMCK plugin can do the trick nicely, but for some sounds you might want to use a sampler with a bit-crusher that reduces sample frequency to 11khz and 4 bits (resulting in typically "raw" and noisy sounds).

Genesis sounds
FM synthesis is not straightforward, but then again, people don't associate chiptunes or VGM with FM that much, so you can do whatever you want here; again, just keep yourself to the limits of tracks and operators.

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Apr 3, 2008

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
$100 is a steal. Gives you a 1-voice Z1. Drawbacks: arcane OS and the analog department isn't super spectacular compared to most recent stuff, but you can do some absolutely far-out stuff with the physical models.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

RedNeptune posted:

I just came into some money
[...]
anything along the lines of the Electribe that is maybe a bit less spendy

What'd you splooge on, 100 bucks?

:rimshot:

quote:

Any models in particular?
Electribes with sampling:

Electribe S, mk 1
Electribe S, mk 2 (shinier)
Electribe ESX

These all use the 16-step method for sequencing. Now, if it's about techno, that's fine and dandy because it works awfully well for that kind of stuff. If it's for hiphop, not so much.

The Roland SP-series is cheaper, you could try and check those out too.

Even cheaper than that is buying a pad-based controller and an older sampler. Yes, it sucks to transfer samples in there. It also sucks that you have to do all this weird crap with SCSI. Guess why the previous owner wanted to get rid of it. However, you load up your things, leave it switched on for the rest of the evening, and it'll do the work. You could also combine this with a cheap groovebox (MC-307 or RM1x) and presto, more room for samples than an Electribe, more channels, and more fun (but less realtime weird-out effects).

quote:

I'm also looking for a good setup for recording into my computer, so as far as sound cards go any suggestions there?

How many inputs do you need?

quote:

edit: Oh, I'm also looking for a new mixer, one that specifically has effects in and out because mine does not and it blows for getting the right sounds out of the kaoss pad.
Mixers with effects either have effects that suck or are expensive digital machines with Lexicon or Yamaha expansion cards or something. Also, those effects are on the master which means that you can only adjust the wet/dry per channel. Also, there are no effects boxes that do lots of effects in parallel (unless you get something like a Kurzweil KSP which is horribly expensive).

quote:

Like I said I got money to spend, just don't want to be blowing it all unnecessarly.

SPECIFY THE AMOUNT. If you just got $800, great. If you just got $800 and you only want to blow $500, tell us you have $500. Without an amount we can't do much.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

h_double posted:

Yeah, I just noticed that too. It might be helpful for the genre descriptions in the OP to include some more brief information about characteristics of different genres

No, please. Don't :).

Ishkur is enough because it is a central point of reference and most importantly, has audio examples and no overly long opinion stories of which the Wikipedia genres are already filled with. The descriptions are tongue in cheek - I don't care, at least better than the vague quasi-intellectual meandering. An imperfect standard, but at least a standard.

The smallest element of "genre" is a part of a song. You can't pin it down on a song, or an artist, or an album. Because it's impractical (and usually not necessary) you just take a song and pin it to a genre.

This is both helpful (because it defines boundaries and provides aim) and lovely (because the genre becomes the law any new music is judged with).

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Apr 13, 2008

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

RivensBitch posted:

covered the actual composition process that people use.

http://forum.clubcharts.nl/topic.php?id=48045/1/20

Yes, the text is in Dutch, but all links are for Google Video anyway. Mostly dance stuff, though.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

ManoliIsFat posted:

I think you shouldn't make electronic music.
Seconded.

It's not even elitism, it's your approach.

If even FL is complicated, just get yourself some MP3 DJ application and a Korg Kaosspad or something. Then, if you still want to make something, hook up with someone who dislikes the DJ part and likes to make music.

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Apr 18, 2008

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Like an Accident posted:

Notes are in a strange grid format
A piano roll is like guitar tabs for piano. You'd be surprised about how many people love that feature.

quote:

and all the buttons & knobs are confusing and overwhelming.
This does not get better with anything else. In fact, Reason keeps it pretty simple compared to most plugins. However, the functions of the knobs can be learned.

quote:

Should I be using something else to feel more comfortable as a traditional musician? I've got a 25-key Oxygen and a copy of Reason 4 - would Cubase, Ableton, or something else be more suited to me?[/
Change of interface can mean change of productivity. When you say "traditional" however, Cubase or Logic would be nice candidates.

[quote]I've also heard of people using a technique of recording lines / loops in Finale, then importing them to DAW software - is that the preferred route for someone who prefers sheet music to grid boxes?
This is because Finale can export MIDI files and it's a pretty cumbersome workaround.

quote:

Also, aside from formatting, would using Cubase over Reason be incredibly more useful to me anyway because of the ability to use plugins?
If you need plugins, then the obvious answer is "yes, it would".

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
It's not that plugins will make things magically better but the algos in Reason are pretty old for backwards compatibility and especially in terms of analog emulation there's stuff that's a lot better out there.

While Thor does a nice game of catching up, I think the M-Class stuff is overdue (and the basic half-rack modules in Reason are truly ancient).

On the other hand, this guy does everything in Reason. No clue how much of that is post-processing, but...

Like an Accident posted:

recent sounds
Here's the problem with your fear of knobs.

Compare:

http://theheartcore.com/music/armin_communication_dull.mp3
http://theheartcore.com/music/armin_communication_shiny.mp3

Both come from exactly the same plugin (which was free); it's just that the latter one has effects applied. Doing this in Reason is not different from doing this with any VST; it's however a fact that the VST has stuff like delay, reverb and chorus built in while Reason's synths are dry (except for Thor, that is).

quote:

and do cool things like sidechaining?
Try "reason sidechain" in Google, the amount of hits you get back is rather obscene. Yes, it's not elegant, but hey.

quote:

I feel like I can't get convincing electro noises out of Reason and I have a hunch that lacking plugins is a big reason why.
Synthesizers are not genre-related, and the issue with buying a plugin is that if you don't know how to make those noises, you haven't advanced one bit.

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 29, 2008

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Like an Accident posted:

Also, you seem to be implying that I can't use plugins with Cubase - does that make Ableton the PC DAW of choice for plugin compatibility?

Not if you want notation; then it's Cubase or Logic for you.

quote:

Reason can produce professional sounding tracks, but plugins make life a lot easier and it's recommended that I use one?

To expand:

In the beginning, Reason had only a single reverb. In version 2.5, it got a better one - the RV7000. The first reverb had to deal with slower computers, so it sacrificed quality for convenience (using more than one, or using it and not bogging down everything).

In Cubase, there was a stock reverb plugin that came with it. Later with SX2 (I think) "Roomworks" was added. In the meantime - and long after that - you have the choice of whatever reverb you want to use; you're not limited to simply the bones you get thrown by Steinberg.

Plugins make life easier in the sense that you get a lot more choice, and adding them doesn't have to cost anything as there's a large selection of actually free ones.

As for the controls: generally volume, filter cutoff and resonance, volume envelope attack and decay, and env > filter routing.

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Apr 29, 2008

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
I'm typing this from a laptop so I'll keep it short:

D'n'b bass in Reason:

try this:



Drums in Reason:

1) find a breakbeat like the Amen break. Lots of wav file samples of it.

2) Use Audacity to chop it into pieces. Basically, it means that you open the complete wave file which is like bom-boom CHAK diggy diggy boom CHACK diggy.

3) Cut out the bom, boom, (bassdrums) CHAK (snare) and diggy (hihat) and save these as separate samples.

4) Load these samples into ReDrum.

5) Experiment and see if you can recreate the Amen drum pattern using ReDrum.

6) variation: pitch them up. Take different portions like combination of a diggy boom, or diggy CHAK. Yes, I agree, I sound like a complete retard here.

This is how you make the old UK rave of 1992 and so, of which drum 'n bass has a lot in common; the main difference is that nowadays in d'n'b the bass is meaner (throw an extra Scream and a filter over the above example) and the drums are even more stripped down. One special trick is in the diggy - you'll notice that it sounds different from hearing a hihat on each of the 16 steps. There's a little "swing" in the sample. This is OK: otherwise, it sounds too mechanical. It does not hurt to emulate the classics; try the same trick with other breakbeats.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
Audacity has the same problem as the GIMP which has the same problem as Inkscape:

they just need to completely duplicate the interface, hotkeys, functionality and interoperability of Sound Forge, Photoshop, and Illustrator and stop shouting that "this way is better". No, it's not, if you want to win several million souls, duplicate, don't innovate.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Terrible Horse posted:

and I've heard it isnt the best for sound quality (just hearsay, I think I read JFK saying it on the MSTRKRFT message board)

Whatever that hearsay was, it was completely made void with version 7 which got a new summing algorithm.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

breaks posted:

Come on man don't give me an aneurysm. Digital summing is literally a plus b plus c equals d. There is no algorithm involved, they search-and-replaced "float" with "double" so that, by their own admission, they could put a bigger number on the box.

The summing algo folks are in my lovely opinion a few rungs below the HURRR WE NEEEEED SILVER CABLES WOVEN IN MOONLIGHT BY VIRGINS PS YOUR EARS SUCK but if it makes the complainers shut up, I'm happy.

There's also a nice PDF of the Sonar folks explaining how summing is done and that one way is not like the other. It's not -that- straightforward.

quote:

Also, sure Logic has advantages over Live, like a much better bundle of effects and instruments (and at a lower price than the full Live bundle).

The price was only lowered recently and it's offset by the fact that you need to buy a Mac :v:.

quote:

It just doesn't magically make everything sound better, is all.
This, exactly.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

WanderingKid posted:

Its easier than coming to the realisation that they dont know what they are doing and need to like, learn stuff. Lots of stuff.

It's also easier to spend another $500 on new DAW software than to spend $15000 on room treatment. (pictures start at page 11)

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Kai was taken posted:

What are you using for the lead that comes in at 2:32? I've been looking for that sound.

That's oscillator sync. I could come pretty near in 2 minutes with Pro-53 and Synth1.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe


See what you can do with that :).

puntme posted:

Can the Mini-KP do the same things as a Kaossilator?
No.

quote:

Can they both be used to control a KAOSS Pad?
Why'd you want to do that :psyduck:

quote:

I don't really understand the difference between the two.
The Mini-KP is an effects device (a Kaoss Pad without all the bells and whistles and size) and needs an external input signal to make sound.
The Kaossilator makes sound by itself.

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

unknown poster posted:

How would one start out?
Read. The. First. Post. In. This. Thread.

Since you're completely undecided on anything else, for god's sake, specify a budget otherwise everyone's going to assume that you have more money to burn than sense.

Since you're starting out, download every piece of demo software of each sequencer you can get your hands on.

Make something. Don't ask, just go balls to the wall and try to wrap your brain around it; if that doesn't work, wrap it around your brain.

Report back after 2 weeks.

Why yes, I do sound like a dick, but seriously, it helps immensely if you just throw yourself at it. Postpone any difficult questions ("why doesn't it sound like on CD", "what plugin do I need to get sound X from") for later, you'll be surprised and frustrated at the answers.

Altoidss posted:

I can understand how to program a sound like that, something like a sawtooth/square wave, open up the filter, compress it, distort it, right? However, how do you sequence something like that?
With anything.

The glide effect isn't a glide - it's a pitch bend. Pitch bend moves the entire pitch of the entire sequence up or down in a fluid manner. Glide would be a fluid transition from note to note.

It's also not a single wave; distortion and waveshaping is used. Filter overdrive can do a lot of nice stuff too.

quote:

It sounds to me like not only is he manipulating the pitch - making falls and stuff like that, but also the attack and release envelopes on a level I can't even begin to understand. Does he just micromanage it a lot, or is there some easier way I don't see?
Sidechaining, sidechaining, and more sidechaining.

quote:

I just don't really get how everyone from that genre, Justice, Boys Noize, all the Ed Banger guys, work.
Multiband compressor set to "retardedly loud". Bitcrushers and filters with overdrive. Lots of really small samples.

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 12:16 on May 18, 2008

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
It's not rocket science if you have this, this, this and this.

Also, ffs, glide and bend are not the same.

Laserjet 4P fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 18, 2008

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

squidgee posted:

Why you gots to be so good at this?
I'm going to be 30 this year and I've been playing with synthesizers since I was 13 :).

quote:

I can't get it to sound remotely right without a stack of Screams, and I still seem to be lacking aggression. Maybe I'm filtering it too much?

I can't get it more agressive than this, sorry :shobon: (order of connection is from top to bottom, mod matrix is hidden since there's nothing happening there).

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

Rageaholic Monkey posted:

I have an Axiom 49 and Reason, so I'd need a laptop obviously for portability, but what other stuff?
You've got the audio interface? Also, a small mixer always comes in handy, so you can control your own volume quickly.

quote:

Amp-wise, there's only one kind of amp, right? Like, I could use the same one for both a guitar and my Axiom? Or am I wrong about that?
You do not want to gently caress up your amp with that, because the frequency range of a synthesizer is way bigger than that of a guitar.

It depends on the venue; if they don't have anything in terms of PA, get yourself a keyboard amp or a pair of these or something. You'll have to ask other folks for experiences.

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Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe
No, I don't mind - the examples are all academic so to say ;). Sorry that I can't give you .rns files because I only use Reason as a demo - I've always used it to explain concepts (and I was always finished building them within the 20 minute limit :D ).

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