Vinland Saga, Historie, Cesare, Otoyomegatari... Foreign history manga thread

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Vinland Saga, Historie, Cesare, Otoyomegatari... Foreign history manga thread

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

TheFallenEvincar posted:

Finally caught up to Kingdom, loving it, though I find Renpa to be pretty overrated (probably the second lamest enemy next to Mr. "I belong in another more over the top, far less subtle action series with very poorly written characters" Houken). He got talked out of a battle. He's one of the rare characters in Kingdom to get defeated by Naruto-style friendship no jutsu. Usually Kingdom is too cutthroat and realistic and merciless for that sort of silly business.
Think back on all the opponents and generals they faced, Renpa is the only "Great General" to be argued out of a battle. Can you imagine that in any other instance? When an enemy general is able to convince you to give up using his words, you are not a very good general. Actually, the only opponents we actually for sure see Renpa beating are Young Gaku Jou (clearly not much of a feat) and some fellow Zhao General (who knows where that guy ranks among foreign generals).

It's funny because at least his poor puppet figurehead general (can't remember his name) died with some semblance of honor. He left the poor puppet behind to be executed because he got argued out of a battle, meanwhile the puppet general dies defiantly refusing to beg for his life before Kanki.
If you think about it, all of his aura and legends (which are all just him telling stories about that one time a Qin Great General defeated him) and charging around aside, it feels like the real talent to Renpa's faction was mostly Rinko. Once Rinko died, Renpa surrendered even when Kaishibou arrived on time to fulfill Rinko's role in the plan to kill Gaku Jou (one of my favorite generals now honestly, I love how in his earlier appearances his commanding style just appears to be muttering vague pleasantries to his officers and retiring for the night).
I mean, Rinko did pretty much take 99% of the Qin generals if I remember right. Renpa couldn't even beat Santa General in a duel to the death because he didn't have enough "burning emotions" I guess.

The Zhao guy was a part of Riboku/Li Mu's army during the battle in Zhao, he got murdered by somebody, but I can't remember who.

Regardless, I thought it was pretty suitable for Renpa to bow his head out, especially after that whole "Fading away" speech from Haku Gou. It's a tacit acceptance of the circumstances, if Renpa comes back, it will be far in the future and he'll be totally outclassed because of anime time and power level progression.

Also, he gave his reasons and they made sense to me. The battle had already been lost, he wasn't really argued into retreating so much that his only options were down to that or dying pointlessly.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2013 09:57

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# ¿ Jun 2, 2024 21:04

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

I'm having a ton of trouble trying to figure out the historical figures that these characters correspond to. I figure the translators did too, because they gave up at around chapter 10 and settled for all the Japanese versions.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2013 18:27

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

swamp izzo posted:

Is there a single (good) manga about European history that isn't Farmland saga. Thanks in advance.

Mercenary Pierre has an awful start and premise (He tries to rape Joan of Arc but decides to help her because he wants to take her virginity), but it's about a mercenary in the Hundred Years War and has some really lavish battles.

I didn't finish it though.

Rose of Versailles is unironically good.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2014 01:13

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

TheFallenEvincar posted:

More awesome chapters of Kingdom. I'm really spoiled by the update rate, it's crazy and seriously accentuates the entertainment factor for me.
Pretty cool new chapters too...My friend made the mistake of reminding me of the existence of Hou Ken though, god I hope that ridiculous DBZ character doesn't ever show up again. Especially given Riboku making some crazy move in the new chapters. I'd been hoping Hou Ken would disappear into the mountains forever but I seem to remember last we saw him he'd agreed to help when Kei Sha asked him, implying he's a confirmed permanent part of Riboku's arsenal now. I can't believe he actually ever existed, I remember it felt like he belonged in another series entirely (even with the Mountain Tribes and sword-dance Naruto ninja, he was an unbearable degree of bullshit).
Kingdom is over the top and ridiculous but I really hate the occasional pure-fantasy magic stuff like "Bushin" and "breath" that sneaks in. Some guy capable of solo-ing an entire army really kills the awesomeness and tension of generalship and dramatic battle maneuvers that forms the core of Kingdom's appeal, even the craziest most powerful generals never got as stupid as Hou Ken.

Boy are you about to be disappointed

I don't like Hou Ken either. I really liked the duel that just happened, even if it was just two dudes hitting each other progressively harder with clubs, because I felt like somebody was actually going to win. Whenever Hou Ken shows up all he does is delay the conclusion for like 10 issues.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2014 02:11

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

Hou Ken is going to win every time, until Shin powers up enough (and loses once), so he's a super boring character until he dies a chapter-long death.

The rest of the Alliance arc is all gold. I wish they went further into depth about the different armies and their dumb gimmicks.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2014 23:55

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

7c Nickel posted:

I just started reading Kingdom and HOLY poo poo I can not get over these loving faces. Not that I've dropped reading it, just that I literally do a doubletake every time I get to a closeup on someone. 80% of the characters look like they're wearing drama masks.

The art will remain janky, but the weird faces become 100% appropriate once you get to the giant-rear end battles.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2014 08:22

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

ManOfTheYear posted:

Started reading Vinland, but a bit dissappointed. I know it's a japanese comic, but why it has to be so.. anime?

I mean it has so much of anime tropes and it's super cartoony, with the frank noble being a weird frog toad in the first story and Thorfinn's dad defeating twenty armed warriors unarmed with jujutsu moves. It might as well be any kind of fantasy land, instead of being more or less historic. I don't like Game of Thrones that much, but it really feels the series captures the mentality of middle ages pretty well, with horrible violent assholes and treating women and peasents like dirt.

Are any other historic comics more historical?

If you haven't gotten to Thorkell yet, you haven't begun reading Vinland Saga.

In all honesty, Thorfinn is the worst character for like, 50 chapters because he's so drat anime. Everybody else is a crazy-rear end viking doing crazy viking activities.

Also, at some point around chapter 30 it became a monthly series and the art quality got insane. The story starts picking up from there on too.

Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Apr 24, 2014

# ¿ Apr 24, 2014 19:33

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

ManOfTheYear posted:

Yeah, I know it sounds - and is - pretty stupid. If a piece of work is part of a certain genre and it has that genre's tropes, there should be no right to complain. What I meant here was that if it's supposed to be historical manga, it should be more true to the time it's set, like having the characters think, talk and function like people did in that culture, not have the same storytelling methods as Naruto has.

I may be alone in this, but when the story is supposed to be historical and is set in real places, events and battles with characters being historical people, it feels pretty bad for the story to be some light action-y entertainment. Like, people actually did lose their lives and homes and so on and making that anime or Hollywood schlock just feels inappropriate. I don't care how violent and horrible the stuff is as long at it's clearly fiction, but if it's supposed to be historical, that's a no go. Either go 12 years a slave or don't touch the stuff.

Okay, I'll stick with it.

How far have you even gotten in Vinland Saga?

I don't really understand what you're looking for in a story. As far as I know, there aren't any examples of historical fiction that go as far as to perfectly simulate a different time period's culture. If anything, that would impede an artist's attempt to tell a story, to force an alien perspective on themselves like that.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2014 20:31

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

Wolfsmund recently stopped being the "Villain magistrate outmanuevers the likable characters and has them killed horribly" and now is about the battle of Morgarten;

I like the art in Wolfsmund and I'm sad it's so unsatisfying to read.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2014 10:03

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

TheFallenEvincar posted:

new chapter of Historie feels like Return of the King or something.
WATCH ALEXANDER LEAD HIS GHOST CAVALRY
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Historie/Historie-089?id=219798
is this that sort of thing where it doesn't get fully drawn until the actual volumes are released or something?

It's happened a bunch of times so far, the Athenians had ghost ships 5 chapters back or so, and the panorama shot of Pella was a bunch of scribbles.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2015 02:09

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

Not much related but Kingdom is #5 on the best selling manga in Japan which blew my mind because I never knew it was that popular

Kingdom consistently delivers absurd violence and goofy gimmick fighting styles on a grand scale, what's not to like? The art's even gotten to a point where half the soldiers look human!

Also Golden Kamui is phenomenal and I now wonder if there is a whole genre of Japanese media which are basically Westerns set in Hokkaido.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 14:54

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

Davincie posted:

there is actually. they remade unforgiven as one for example!

That's rad, I'll have to watch it. Love me some samurai cowboys

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 09:28

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

Punkin Spunkin posted:

Yeah, I know, but the author had no problem inserting a DBZ character, so I'm hoping for way more bumps on the road and drama for the inevitable Qin Win.

There's a lot of poo poo that is going to happen even if the author follows history very closely (which they don't), just don't go looking for wiki pages if you don't want to see it though.

I follow kingdom mostly for the dumb gimmick generals. Right now I like the guy with the very hard knuckles that unexpectedly punches people with GREAT GENERAL strength.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2017 09:24

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

I remember seeing that in the old scans, pity it wasn't the actual Shigeru Mizuki

# ¿ Sep 29, 2018 09:28

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# ¿ Jun 2, 2024 21:04

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

The sometimes-janky art in Kingdom is acceptable for the most part, but whenever Hara draws a foot it looks like a goddamned toilet plunger.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2019 09:23

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Vinland Saga, Historie, Cesare, Otoyomegatari... Foreign history manga thread