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Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Giving this another shot during quarantine, but don't see the room up in the OP. Are goons still playing on CGoban? Anyone floating around that will play with a scrub and take the time to explain why I'm bad?

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Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





I'd love an invite to the group and am going to try to use the time at home to see if I can get it to click.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Blendy posted:

I assumed you used the same user name so I sent and invite. If you use something different let me know and I'll resend.

I did.

Have done two sessions with a friend this week, where if I fall for some stupid trick or make a move that is 100% dead, we kind of pause, play it out, and then rewind. This way I'm actually getting to the end of the game and seeing how the game should play out as opposed to me making a mistake on move 60 that cedes an entire quadrant that wasn't even viable. Two sessions of playing with a friend telling me that kind of thing has done more for me learning this game than anything before.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Anyone down for a teaching game at like 7PM EST tonight on KGS? I've got like 5 games in in as many days, but the ones with a cooperative teacher are much more productive.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





elementc posted:

If you're new you can send me a friend request on OGS. I'll teach you and review your games when I am available. I can't promise a ton as I never know when I'll have free time but I can at least get you started. My screen name there is the same as here: elementc

I've been playing on cgoban and actually finally starting to get a feel for it. I'm still bad but I'm losing by less, actually setting some traps, and generally not getting bullied around for entire games. I *almost* beat my friend who has been my main teacher over the weekend, and looking at the replay it really came down to a single questionable move.

Honestly I wish I could be playing more, I've just found that I can't squeeze a game in between things, if I am getting distracted by emails or something going off its just not going to go well. Likewise I'mt rying to take my "full" 30 seconds for moves and not just slamming pieces down without really thinking about what my opponent did.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





So after getting my bearings on KGS I've switched over to OGS. I like the KGS client better for playing teaching games and playing through problems, but the playerbase is so much deeper on OGS. KGS seemed to think I am at 13k so I imagine OGS will place me 15-16k. The SA group seems to have some activity but its been a few years since any kind of tournament.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





TraderStav posted:

I want to learn Go, are there any recommended (free is nice, but a few bucks if it's a high quality version that is a game changing experience) for a new player for iPad? Looking for something with nice tutorial, hints, and lots of practice modes / difficulty levels against the computer. Being able to play a buddy online would be a bonus but not necessary.

I am a couple of months into learning and started with the resources in the OP, playing teaching games with a friend, and playing bots on ogs. Correspondence games on ogs are also great for playing without worrying about the clock (though you should still make sure to move quickly to avoid bad habits). Lessons in Fundamentals of Go and a few other books in that same series were helpful as well if you want to spend a few bucks.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Asleep Style posted:

I disagree about correspondence being a good idea for new players. Until you get a handle on strategy it doesn't help you to have time to think - your thoughts are wrong. It also takes so long to finish a correspondence game and new players improve so quickly that you'll be locked into bad decisions you made weeks ago. Better to save correspondence games for when you get to low double digit kyu imo.

Goquest is good for casual 9x9 games and fine for a beginner, the caveat is that it's hard to get reviews on those games. I'm not huge on 9x9 in general outside of a few games when you're figuring out the rules. 19x19 is a more interesting game, I feel like it's best to switch to the full board quickly

That's fair. I'm 13K and having a great time with correspondence games because prior to them I had trouble finding an hour I could dedicate to sitting down and focusing on a game, now I just take 10-15 minutes a few times a day to make my moves. I give myself a 1-2 minute clock per move, including time looking at the prior few moves to remind myself what was happening, to avoid going too far down reading everything out.

There are a few games that 100% yes I'm dealing with a mistake I made two weeks ago, but I also have found a handful of people that we get through a game every 3-4 days that are in the 10-14k range that I have ongoing games with.

My irl friend who has been teaching me a bit basically started me off with a 30 minute clock with 5x 30 seconds, from day one told me "we're not adding time", and we gradually carved it down to 10 minutes + 5x 30s. I still gently caress up sometimes and just completely misread something or legit forget what part of the board I wanted to go back to, but the clock is definitely an aspect of the game you shouldn't ignore.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Asleep Style posted:

Yes, definitely.


This is totally legit, sometimes life circumstances get in the way. You'll improve more by thinking about a few moves every day than you will only playing one or two full games a month. My point was just that I don't think it's a great way to play for beginners.

Somewhere around 13k is where I started to get a sense of when I was in a position where I should resign instead of trying to fight it out til the end, which is especially important with regards to correspondence games. This evolves as players get better of course, to the AI engines most of my moves are game-losing blunders.

I don't think there's anything wrong with people playing the kind of go they like. Hate time pressure and prefer correspondence games? Go for it. Love 9x9? Become the king or queen of goquest. If you want to get "good" then there are better ways to improve, but not every hobby needs to revolve around a quest for mastery

Right now at 13k my roadblock is that while I play with solid fundamentals, my opponents who are better than me make these huge reaches that I just don't know how to punish. I can threaten groups, but I can never seem to execute the capture. I have a book on tesuji I've been meaning to read for a couple of weeks and will probably pick up the Attack & Defense book from the same series. Trying to get more comfortable with playing stones in places where they have room to breath even if they don't have a nearby base t oguarantee life. It's led to some games where I steamroll with steady play, and other games where I black out, look up, and realize I don't have enough eye space and there is no escape.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Anyone have comments on this game? I'm black.
https://online-go.com/game/26066900

This was my 49th game, white is a player who appears to bounce between 10k and 12k.

Nephzinho fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Aug 11, 2020

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008






I will pay better attention to shoulder hits. I was taught that they were a good way to establish a base for your stones, which i guess I use in places where I don't really need to. I will keep it in the quiver for tight invasions, but be more mindful when it is on the back of a wall where the head of two stones is going to really crush my territory.

I definitely put off the bottom right invasion for far too long in this game, there were a number of scenarios where that group would've died or I would've been forced to escape out either side which would not be a guarantee.

I made a move in the endgame that didn't necessitate a response that would potentially have cost me the game by a point if it was ignored and they took back sente, but they jumped on it.

I played some teaching games with an IRL friend before that, but yes.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Asleep Style posted:

Shoulder hits are fine, the problem is when you play a move that makes it as if your opponents stone was a shoulder hit. Because it's their turn next it's as if they played the shoulder hit, you ignored it, and they get to follow up again. The diagrams here are probably better for explaining it than I can do with words:
https://senseis.xmp.net/?ArmpitHit

That is super helpful. I initially didn't use the angle play/shoulder hit at all and was super slow, and I guess I over corrected the other way.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Anias posted:

Focus on fixing your direction of play. Move 15 was your big mistake, and either an approach or an enclosure would have been better. The stuff like armpit hits into getting haned is bad, but giving away sente for free is worse.

Noted. I tend to ask myself "does this move make my opponent do a thing, and if they don't do that thing will I be able to punish them for it" before every move. Think at move 15 I kind of froze on what to do, was worried that if I invaded the bottom right I would be ceding the entire bottom territory, and if I approached they would pincer and that group would be very very far away from help (which is a situation I need to get more comfortable with anyway).

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





PMush Perfect posted:

Except even the Discord is pretty much dead. :eng99:

Might have something to do with the invite in the OP being invalid for a long long time.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Anyone want to check out some 12k on 12k action?
https://online-go.com/game/26693217

Opponent paid for AI review, there were 2ish moves early on that I made the AI didn't like. One in the bottom left I am going to look at variations for (and i ended up getting there first anyway, I think the AI is telling me it would've been better to let the corner get a little bigger to ensure I had a solid cap on the group), the other in the bottom right (where i got to it 2-3 moves later). Opponent made a number of "-5%" moves throughout the early game that added up.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





What kind of records exist for professional games over time? Or, more specifically, has anyone tried to train AI to emulate specific pros. Not that it matters much beyond being an interesting hypothetical.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





PerniciousKnid posted:

With super beginners you have to pull punches or you're just gobbling up all their handicap stones and they feel like poo poo.

I've been trying to get a few friends into playing and pretty much have been doing handicap games with 4 stones + not actually killing groups that are weak and giving them a chance to go back and make life in the endgame instead of just getting killed for tenuki'ing one move earlier.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





PerniciousKnid posted:

Any suggestions for ordering double convex stones? I've been playing with discount plastic stones because I'm cheap and don't play consistently, but I'll have them for decades so maybe I should just buy something that feels decent already.

Edit: My 3yo and 5yo just played four legit games of (Capture) Go on a 5x5, wonder how long this will last.

Edit 2: It lasted four games.

Edit 3: My 5yo just connected stones to avoid being captured and then my 3yo just did the same, I'm dying.

I got some double convex yunzi stones recently. They're very nice, weren't too expensive.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





PerniciousKnid posted:

Where did you buy them?

Yellow Mountain Imports restocked them in January, not sure if they're still ins tock. You can also get them on aliexpress, though obvious reliability caveats apply.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Going to be unexpectedly traveling for a couple of weeks - anyone have any particularly good lectures on youtube to recommend?

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





CaptainEO posted:

Around what strength level are you looking for? For DDK/SDK the early Nick Sibicky videos are great, for stronger players maybe the Michael Redmond AI analyses. Both of them also made some very beginner-friendly novice videos recently.

4k last time I checked.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





mycophobia posted:

it turns out i am stoppable. lost 4 out of 5 games tonight mostly due to really boneheaded oversights.

also using the crap out of fox's score estimator button. its impossible to resist

The estimators are all really, really rough - don't get too reliant on it.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





mycophobia posted:

Lost a bunch at 4k and got demoted and then stomped rear end at 5k and got promoted again in a short time. Will the ping ponging continue...?

This always seems to be the case - every time you go up a stone you'll hit a losing streak and drop two before climbing back up and promote another stone...

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





mycophobia posted:

seemingly unreasonable 3-3 invasions are the bane of my existence. if i could fend those off consistently i'd gain 2-3 stones strength

Join the discord and post some replays. There shouldn't be questionable 3-3 invasions, if it's possible to live inside and they threaten the outside value, you should be responding accordingly whether that is attacking the outside group or securing the corner.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





untzthatshit posted:

What's the best Go app on Android? I do have a good steam game and such but I was thinking today it's be great if I could just play a simple go app on the phone while flying

tsumego pro is a great problem app.

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Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Mederlock posted:

My wife hates playing with me :saddowns: . She's says the gap between us is too large for it to be fun (.. I'm like, 19kyu at best), even when I give her 5 stones on a 9x9. So basically I have a beautiful 1" thick goban but nobody to play with :negative:

Have you considered having a child to teach to hate playing with you?

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