Ask Go players about Go (come play Go with us)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask Go players about Go (come play Go with us)

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Hi everybody, there are a group of go players here on SA who like to post a thread once in a while to try to get fresh blood. Here is the newest iteration of that thread!!

GO is a cool game of strategy which a lot of people compare to chess but really there's no point in doing that they are both cool but completely different. The rules are exceptionally simple but the game itself is immensely complex. I would write them here but the wikipedia article on the game has done an excellent job summarizing them as well as including a nice history of the game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_%28board_game%29

We all play on KGS, the best Go server. You can find the client at http://www.gokgs.com. We meet in room ITGO, found in the social room category. You will have to post in this thread with your KGS username to get access to the room. There are usually a few of us on at any time, so please drop by and we will be glad to play a game with you, whether you are already an experienced player or just starting. If you have any questions about the game or just want to discuss it we'll also be happy to talk about Go here in this thread!

There is an irc thing here:
irc://irc.synirc.net/itgo
https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.synirc.net/itgo

EDIT: the irc is gone. maybe this discord chat will be good: https://discord.gg/3bKXUzb

Want to hear the stones in KGS client but no stone sound? Try this post for the stone sound.

A BETTER POST FROM THE PRESENT

oiseaux morts 1994 posted:

I'm gonna post this in here for archival purposes since the old thread is gonna die.

Go

Two players exchanging handshakes after a friendly game.

WHAT??

Welcome to a thread about the most venerable and ancient art of igo or just go, also known as weiqi in Chinese, and baduk in Korean. Go is an ancient (~2000 years) Chinese two-player board game which has simple, elegant rules but a vast, unfathomable complexity. It is also about crushing your opponents whilst retaining the calm demeanour of a placid lake in springtime. Go enjoys great status in Japan, Korea and China but lives in the shadow of Chess in the west, which is a shame. It's a deeply aesthetically pleasing game.

A nice thick goban (playing board) makes a great clacking noise when you slam the stones down to let your opponent know who's boss.

Wow, this game sounds cool. Tell me more!

I will not give the rules here in any detail; as you follow through this thread you will see links that explain it far better than I could. But here is a rough summary: A typical game of go consists of a board with a 19x19 grid drawn on it (a goban). The players take turns to place stones at the intersections of the gridlines, with the aim to surround more empty space (territory) than their opponent. Once a stone has been placed, it does not move- unless it is captured. Stones are captured when you totally surround your opponent's stones. Essentially, players gain territory by capturing their opponents stones and stopping their stones from being captured.

Black must play a stone at A or he will be totally surrounded if he lets white put a stone there. Not cool.

But go is more than just trying to capture stones. It's essentially a game about balance; trading positions on the board in a struggle to get ahead, like an elaborate swordfight. When we play, we talk about concepts like "beautiful shape" and the "flow of the stones" on the board. The players trade, fight and defend for their standing on the board until there are no more moves to play. When both players cannot find another move, they will both decide to pass, which signals the end of the game. They then count the number of points on the grid that their stones surround; the person with the most points wins. This is the essence of go. This explanation is a little vague, but the game is incredibly simple- just see the following link:

--> Players unfamiliar with the rules of the game should start here <--

The above link is an essential interactive tutorial on the fundamentals. Try going through it a couple of times. If you're happy with that, try also following lovely's amazing guide here, which will guide you further along the path to becoming a solid, merciless Go player.

A typical scene from the end-game of go. Note the opponent trampled underfoot won, but fell victim to the nuclear tesuji.

TRY WARMING UP WITH SOME AI

If you're feeling brave at this point, skip to the next section about playing online as it's the best way to learn. However, if you're feeling timid you may want to study the rules and familiarise yourself with certain basic concepts in the link above, you'll probably want to have a go at a real game. My suggestion then would be to try a computer player so you can experiment with undo moves and generally taking your time, etc. There are many different clients for playing computer go, but probably the quickest way to get set up is to do the following:

1) Download the glGo client.
2) Download the GNUGo engine on the same page and put it in a folder somewhere (glGo install directory is fine).
3) Select "Play GNU Go" from the PANDA-glGo main menu; at some point the client will ask you to point to the GNUGo engine you downloaded in step 2.
4) Tweak your game settings. You might want to try a game on a smaller board, like 9x9. The komi setting is explained below.
5) Play and get a feel for the game! Remember to use the link above if you're still unsure of the rules.

Go is, from a computational standpoint, a complete nightmare and unlike Chess, where computer AI has managed to beat some of the greatest players in the history of the game, the most advanced Go AI could probably not beat a dan-level amateur, let alone a professional. Advances are always being made, but the point here is that Go AI is no substitute for a real player. It is, however, quite useful for a total beginner.

Playing go can be a very peaceful, spiritual experience. Respect for your opponent is a must at all times.

PLAYING ONLINE and JOINING A CLUB

Just to re-iterate the point that once you're fairly happy about the rules, you can stop playing bots. They are no substitute for the real thing. You'll want to play actual people who can give you advice and make delightful chat with you in the process. The best way to do this is join your fellow SomethingAwful go players on KGS (Kisedo Go Server). Note that there are other servers, but KGS is generally considered the best for English-speaking players, as well as the client being the most user-friendly.

How to get online:

1) Visit the KGS website. Here you can launch the KGS client in your web browser, or download it to your computer.
2) Register an account.
3) Log in, choose the following menu option: Rooms -> Room List
4) Under the "Social" tab, find the room "SA" and double click. This is our public room, but it's not where we usually hang out.
5) Ask for permission to join "ITGO", our private room.
6) Once permission has been granted, you can join by going Rooms -> Room List, and double clicking ITGO under the "Social" tab.

Don't worry if you don't get an immediate response, someone should notice your request eventually. Try again at another time (evenings is best) if there's still nothing happening, or ask in the Ask/Tell Go thread.

There are also real-life Go clubs in a lot of places; most cities will have at least one but again it's dependent on geography. One of the best resources for finding local players is IGOLocal, which is a map-based directory. Also, a Google search will help, and most national association websites may also have a club directory. Playing go in real life is a very different experience to playing online and I encourage anyone with an interest in the game to seek out their local club.

Go clubs are the cool places to hang out. You can find most of the cool people there. At Go club you can just chill and do whatever and totally relax. "Take it easy" is the Go motto, for example, that's how laid back it is there. Show up if you want to have a good time. Another good reason to show up is if you want to hang out with friends.

ITGO LEAGUES and TOURNAMENTS

http://itgoleague.wikia.com/

We currently have a league running for all levels of ability, so now more than ever is the best time to get online and get playing. Each game played comes with a complimentary review, so even if you're a player who feels out of their depth compared to others, there is much to be learned from participating.

RANKINGS AND HOW TO LEVEL UP

Player ranks are split into two groups: kyu and dan. Kyu-level players are considered beginners and intermediates, whereas dan-level players are considered masters. The ranks are split up as so:
code:
Double-digit kyu: 30 to 20 kyu                       Beginner
Double-digit kyu: 19 to 10 kyu                       Casual player
Single-digit kyu: 9 to 1 kyu                         Intermediate amateur
Amateur dan:      1�7d (where 8d is special title)   Advanced amateur
Professional dan: 1�9p (where 10p is special title)  Professional Player
Go is pretty merciless at first. You will start around 30k. There is a well known proverb: "Lose 100 games quickly". This means that the best way to improve is just to play, and accept defeat. Get playing games, lose them, and study your losses until you achieve your first victory. The members of ITGO are always on hand to review games and offer suggestions on how to improve.

When I first started, I consistently struggled to win games or even understand what the hell I was doing. I think on the third day I played, I did something insane like 20 games, of which I won 2. I started at 28 kyu in March 2010. By next March I had a ranking of 8 kyu. That's not even that fast! My secret is just to play, play, play. Some people like to study books and play a few select, thoughtful games; others like to just play lots and lots of games and develop an instinct through losing and winning. Either way, Go accomodates all kinds of approaches, it's just a matter of finding one that suits you.

GO BOOKS AND PROBLEMS

Books are an excellent way to improve. My reccomendation would be to start with "The Second Book of Go" by Richard Bozulich, which is designed for people who know the rules but still have no idea what to do next. That book will take you quite far if you study all of it, but after that you might want to start dipping into the Elementary Go Series, which should take you all the way to 1k and maybe beyond. Another book you will see mentioned a lot is Kageyama's "Lessons In The Fundamentals of Go" which is a book that can begun to be read at 15k, and one you will find yourself re-reading on your road to 1-dan.

Doing problems are another great way to improve your skills, and you can find a set of beginner, intermediate and advanced puzzles and problems here.

LINKS AND RESOURCES

The Ask/Tell Go thread. This is where most Go discussion happens, as this thread is really just a recruitment thread. Get in there and get chatting.
A really, really good introduction on how to improve at Go, written by lovely on KGS
A solid overview on what this game is all about, from Wikipedia.
Sensei's Library. The de-facto Go wiki, full of loads of information about getting started and improving your game.
KGS, the best English-speaking Go server.
KGS Analytics, will give you statistics on your KGS games!
Life in 19x19, a popular Go forum.
IGOLocal club directory for real life games 'n poo poo.
SmartGo, an excellent app for mobiles.

Go.... (gently caress yourself??)

MISC GO TRIVIA AND PERSON(S)

Read lovely's Guide to Professional Go to learn more about the professional world of Go.

GO GLOSSARY

A lot of terms for this game are in Japanese and if you don't speak the language it can be hard to remember what they are. Here are some commonly used terms, but note that a quick Google search will give you more in depth results if there's nothing mentioned here:

aji - where dead stones come to life to haunt the opponent
atari - a situation where one or more stones are a move away from capture
fuseki - the opening moves of a game
hane - a cut (through your opponents stones to break them up)
joseki - a well-known series of moves that benefit both players
goban - a board on which go is played
komi - points given to white at the end of the game to make up for the fact that black goes first
sente - a move that forces your opponent to respond (players who "keep sente", that is, continue to play sente moves, are usually dominating play)
gote - a move that does not require your opponent to respond (i.e. they have the chance of playing a sente move)
tesuji - local play, usually where stones are fighting to capture each other
tenuki - playing elsewhere on the board

FINAL NOTES

Feel free to ask any questions in this thread or the Ask/Tell thread. If any existing Go players have anything they'd like to add or correct in the OP just say so.

secret bonus link~

Edited discord invite to be fresh in 2020 still here dang

sensual donkey punching fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Aug 24, 2020

# ¿ Jul 2, 2008 08:25

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 19:23

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

http://www.ymimports.com/

This store offers cheap and decent sets. There are cheaper places out there (especially ebay) but I can't vouch for the quality of their products.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2008 23:18

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Delta-Wye posted:

It's been a while since I've played, I ought to get in on this. Go is an incredibly ~~frustrating~~ interesting game.

Kinda hijacking the thread a bit, but what do you guy's think of my mypic32 contest entry, from an end-user's point of view? It's been a few years since I've played, but I think it would be a cool application if I can 1) get it to work right and 2) make the board look good/presentable. I know its not traditional, but this is the 21st century, amirite?

I can't help but feel like I'm missing some features or abilities that would be useful.

maybe throw in a network stack and write an IGS client for it and you've got a very cool piece of hardware

# ¿ Jul 3, 2008 01:10

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

delta, solutions of life & death problems is something in the region of NP-complete (http://www.springerlink.com/content/vh10b97tyvxtf1wr/ supposedly proves this for a restricted sort of L&D problem). it's best to leave marking dead & live groups during scoring to a human, if that's what you meant in your spec (which isn't clear). in any case, i hope you make a new thread about it if you ever build this, and maybe post about it on godiscussions.com too. i'm sure most go players would be interested in seeing a high-tech goban, you might even be approached for a commission

# ¿ Jul 3, 2008 03:26

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

yes, we're happy to play and review games

# ¿ Jul 3, 2008 17:06

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Baelfael posted:

I love Go, but I am absolutely terrible at it; I get crushed by people that also are just learning the game. It's very inducing. Do some of you older players have any good web resources for moving your game forward from "I know how the rules"?

i just noticed this post was pretty much skipped over. besides coming to kgs and getting some teaching from whoever is on, http://senseis.xmp.net/ is a good wiki about go. it's seen better years, but all the old pages are still full of good content. your main problem might be finding pages suitable for your skill level, since they aren't organized very well that way, but if you enjoy reading there's a lot of stuff there to grab your attention, both about the game and the history of the game

# ¿ Jul 4, 2008 07:26

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

some really, really recent developments in go ai have given mogobot, which actually plays around 3 - 2 kyu on kgs. of course every bot has its achilles heel, but mogobot plays in a global way far in advancement of any other bot

# ¿ Jul 7, 2008 11:33

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Peantoo posted:

Yo woss, just letting you know I am still reading your books and didn't give up on Go.

good to hear peantoo, drop in sometime

# ¿ Jul 8, 2008 05:32

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

go is great. come play go...

# ¿ Jul 15, 2008 06:24

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Under Chinese rules, the final score is the number of stones you have alive on the board plus the areas they enclose, however prisoners and dead groups do not count towards the result. Every neutral point in these rules is a point, although players often will stop filling in once its clear that the final result wont change due to neutral points being filled in. Sometimes filling them in will cause the other player to have to play within their territory to defend their group, allowing the other player to snatch two neutral points in a row and gain. In Japanese rules, the final score is determined by the areas you've enclosed plus the dead stones you have captured on and off the board. The main difference is really that stones in seki are worth points under Chinese rules. (A seki involves two groups with no eyes and two common liberties, so neither player can move first to capture without becoming captured themselves - so both groups are considered alive)

# ¿ Jul 21, 2008 17:47

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

welp i would recommend lessons in the fundamentals of go but maybe i'm gay

# ¿ Aug 11, 2008 23:31

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Yeah, escaping owns.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2008 22:32

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

They get the win once you escape ten more times. Escaping is for gay babies

# ¿ Aug 19, 2008 00:27

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Yes.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2008 15:08

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

people idle a great deal in SA, particularly around hours that are not 9pm - 5am EST. better chance of getting teaching games then

# ¿ Oct 6, 2008 22:40

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

D16, edit hte graphic 4 me

# ¿ Nov 28, 2008 06:37

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

# ¿ Nov 28, 2008 12:31

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Q5 nigga, let play some boring poo poo

# ¿ Nov 30, 2008 01:05

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

in the interests of an interesting game, i'll play c9

# ¿ Dec 1, 2008 00:02

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

c14, easy

# ¿ Dec 1, 2008 21:32

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

in the unlikely event anyone is trying to follow along, we played a popular modern opening variation, which ended after the long sequence on the right side. this left black with the initiative, which he took to play a nonstandard and probably subpar approach move. i replied with an unusual pincer which has recently gained popularity, and now we are very much on our own in this game. also i am still thinking about my next move

# ¿ Dec 1, 2008 21:55

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

F4 BITCH

# ¿ Dec 2, 2008 08:16

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

extend to f5

# ¿ Dec 3, 2008 14:25

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

# ¿ Dec 4, 2008 04:35

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

look im sorry neither of us are gay rear end ghosts. were doing the best we can. howard play a move

# ¿ Dec 4, 2008 05:15

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

the ishida dictionary of basic joseki are the books i value the most. even if you find it intimidating to study at first, you can count on them being a very solid investment. attack & defense is the key book for go theory.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2008 02:30

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

# ¿ Dec 11, 2008 08:00

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

# ¿ Dec 11, 2008 08:46

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

# ¿ Dec 11, 2008 17:13

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

# ¿ Dec 12, 2008 06:35

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

L3 and sweet jesus that youtube man is horrible

# ¿ Dec 12, 2008 07:25

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Mogo is the best, as it stands it plays around 1 kyu level on kgs. If you linked it up to a large enough supercomputer (think hundreds of cores) you might get it up to 1 or 2 dan. But just as all other computer players, it has certain weak points that a human can learn to exploit over the course of a few games. So computer AI is nowhere near ready to dominate human players.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2008 20:29

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

4 years ago the best computer was around 6 - 8 kyu (gnugo). For a long time a computers strength was its pattern database & ability to outplay tactically. The main advancement Mogo brings is a remarkable global sensibility. Just as gnugo could reliably beat 6 kyus at least half the time by winning most tactical fights, mogo can now reliably beat 2 kyus at least half the time because it will form vast central frameworks in reply to any slack play. There's no smooth gradient of advancement here, Mogo represents a big step forward, but to advance into the dan ranks both a good global sense & unerringly sharp tactics are needed, and I would be surprised to see a 6 dan computer in ten years! Maybe not twenty though..

# ¿ Dec 12, 2008 21:17

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

that's a screenshot of the igs client glGo, it has a 3d board option

# ¿ Dec 12, 2008 21:42

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

http://senseis.xmp.net/?GNUGo

there's a history of kgs ranks, i overestimated its strength 4 years ago but it was not quite as weak as 16 kyu even 5 years ago either

# ¿ Dec 12, 2008 22:59

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

e9 it is i guess

# ¿ Dec 17, 2008 18:53

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Merry Christmas Jon!! I believe this position calls for calculation so i probably wont move for a few days at least

# ¿ Dec 24, 2008 21:14

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

D10

# ¿ Jan 10, 2009 19:31

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

Opening B lectures 1 thru 5 imo

# ¿ Mar 31, 2009 07:28

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 19:23

sensual donkey punching: Mar 13, 2004; =); Nap Ghost

i'm so sorry for not playing... i will return in seoptemeber... i will post another move..!!

# ¿ Jul 8, 2009 04:43

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