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jovial_cynic posted:It's got that rack on it. Do the coals/charcoal go on top of the rack, or under it?
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Sep 3, 2008 05:18
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Dongsmith posted:I think you put the rack away until it is time for burgers Yeah, I agree. Looks like Jovial got himself a dual purpose forge  (besides, the heat would probably warp the grill to the point of uselessness)
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Sep 3, 2008 16:28
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Looks like I found a good use for the firebricks in that old fireplace:  Would forming a full box out of the firebricks (walls, lid, and one opening) be an even better arrangement? I imagine that containing all the heat would make things hotter...
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Sep 3, 2008 18:34
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Also, where does one get charcoal for their forge? I just threw on some quick-light BBQ briquettes, just to see what would happen... haha.
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Sep 3, 2008 19:36
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jovial_cynic posted:Also, where does one get charcoal for their forge? I just threw on some quick-light BBQ briquettes, just to see what would happen... haha. Usually, but not always, the places that sell charcoal briquettes sell charcoal lump. It's slightly more expensive, and usually the bags are bigger. Places like walmart or maybe sears. Any large store with a self respecting BBQ section should sell it, ask the clerks, it's not always on the floor. Up here in Canada I get it at Canadian Tire, it's a combination housewares, automotive, lawncare and outdoor activity store. Maybe one of those giant fishing outfitters you have in the US carries it? Restaurant supply stores usually sell it in fairly large quantities as well. Making a little firebrick house... hmm, might work, just make sure you don't try to make it air tight or anything. Usually just a bowl shape is sufficient to work. Keep an eye on the underside of the forge too, how thick is that steel? Not sure if this is what you were doing or not, but from the pictures it looks like you're putting your workpiece on top of the fire. I would suggest putting the iron into the middle of the fire. There's way more heat, and it self-insulates. Congrats Jovial, I hope you enjoy it as much as I do
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Sep 3, 2008 20:29
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Walmart. That should work. Thanks. As for the workpiece... I wasn't really working it. I was just taking a picture. haha... I did get it red-hot, though, and then took some plyers and bent it, and then used it to move my briquettes around. I guess I made my first tool.
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Sep 3, 2008 20:41
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Nice forge you got there jovial_cynic. The fact it came with a hand blower makes it worth the $100, they can be hard to find. Well, at school they issued us our gear today and we started welding. Man, the leathers they gave us seem to be pretty drat good quality, it's Tillman brand, we get to keep them and our other gear too, aside from the welding machine. I spent 3.5 hours burning 6010 today. I made some pretty good beads with it. I'm getting better with maintaining good arc length. Tomorrow, I believe we'll be welding all day long, so I should be making REALLY NICE beads after 7 hours. I'm still working on getting used to striking arcs where I want them with a regular flip up style welding hood... I'm spoiled by my auto-darkening helmet at home. I actually like the flip up style for SMAW instead of the auto-darkening because it keeps hot slag from hitting your face when you are chipping it off. I tell you what, when your welding in that booth, you are in your own little world, which is kind of relaxing... but man, it's so easy for the instructors to sneak up on you and watch you weld without you realizing they are there! AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Sep 3, 2008 |
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Sep 3, 2008 22:09
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dv6speed posted:Nice forge you got there jovial_cynic. The fact it came with a hand blower makes it worth the $100, they can be hard to find. That's slick about the leathers a good jacket can be like $50. Personally I just wear leather sleeves or else I get too hot. I'm a fan of the traditional lids too, I've only used the auto tint ones a few times and didn't find much difference to be honest. It's funny to hear about the instructors sneaking up on you I remember that about when I was in School. Do you have a know-it-all best welder ever gods gift to metal fabrication in your class? I always had a cocky guy like that and every time but the one year I caught them watching me weld and then asking me how I do my work. The year the cocky guy didn't ask for help they sent him to compete for Canada at the world trade skill competition... He was one heck of a welder. Sometimes at work I'll catch the suncor QC guys trying to watch mr weld but then I just stop welding until they leave. It's pretty sweet being a fully qualified welder you can get away with a lot and they still pamper you. Also! I'm getting my very own apprentice! How very exciting. I hope it's a hot hot 19 year old fresh out of high school girl. I have a feeling that won't be happening though.
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Sep 4, 2008 13:43
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SmokeyXIII posted:Do you have a know-it-all best welder ever gods gift to metal fabrication in your class? The head instructor told me today in a private conversation that I'm the "rocket scientist" of the class. Unlike the other guy, I try to remain humble. The way I see it, my work speaks for itself, I don't need to run my mouth to impress everyone. SmokeyXIII posted:Also! I'm getting my very own apprentice! How very exciting. I hope it's a hot hot 19 year old fresh out of high school girl. I have a feeling that won't be happening though. Speaking of welding quality... I welded for 7 hours today. That's a full 7 hours of arc'n and spark'n, except for the time spent chipping slag. By hour #6 my quality certainly went downhill. I've done more welding in 1.5 days then I have in my entire life! I'm sure once I get more used to being in that booth for that long I'll do better at the end of the day. Now it's time for me to gloat a little... The head instructor graduated me from running stringer beads to padding a plate this afternoon. About half the class is still working on making good stringers. The head instructor, who is a perfectionist, doesn't give out compliments very easy, which is fine with me. The part time instructor, however, who has been welding for 40 years, came in my booth today and told me "You are doing good, you'll be a fine weldor." So that made me feel pretty good 
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Sep 4, 2008 23:23
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dv6speed posted:Yes! Let me tell you, he is very annoying. He can't be older then 21, and by the way he talks, he thinks he has 40 years worth of experience. I made it a point today to peek at his beads... they leave alot to be desired. I have a feeling he's never picked up a stinger before and has only ever used a wire fed machine. I'm only 23! But then again I'm not really cocky about my welding abilities. It's funny when I show up on sites and I get asked "so are you a first year apprentice or a helper or what?" It's basically my favorite part of starting new jobs. dv6speed posted:The head instructor told me today in a private conversation that I'm the "rocket scientist" of the class. Unlike the other guy, I try to remain humble. The way I see it, my work speaks for itself, I don't need to run my mouth to impress everyone. You got that right! Talk is cheap so you gotta prove yourself daily. You are only as good as your last weld. You really sound like you're well on your way my Goonprentice. dv6speed posted:You don't want a cute 19 year old chick as your apprentice... your welding quality will surely suffer! hehe There is something to be said for morale though! Happy welders are productive welders... maybe? Plus think of all the innuendos.... "Yeah she just handles my rod all day" "Sparks were flying" "Turn up the heat baby!" Which reminds me... Do you know why welders make the best lovers? We do it in all positions! dv6speed posted:Speaking of welding quality... I welded for 7 hours today. That's a full 7 hours of arc'n and spark'n, except for the time spent chipping slag. By hour #6 my quality certainly went downhill. I've done more welding in 1.5 days then I have in my entire life! I'm sure once I get more used to being in that booth for that long I'll do better at the end of the day. That's the funny thing about practicing, you can only do so much and be productive. For me I find about 4 or 5 hours a day is the ideal amount of practice before I start losing progress. I'm going to be starting TIG training sometime soon and I gotta force myself to stick to that. Supposedly it shouldn't be too tough to get the TIG down what with having the SMAW experience. TIG pipe that is, I can TIG plate and all that jazz together no problem. SmokeyXIII fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Sep 5, 2008 |
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Sep 5, 2008 04:44
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This is kind of an off topic question but, me and my friend are making drums out of propane tanks and we can't get the gasket off. We have tried a huge wrench and hammers, as well as LOTS of fire from acetylene torches. Any suggestions? I might take it t the millwright shop at school and see if any of the welding students want to get them off for me. Don't worry, the tanks were bought brand new and never used. Here is what we want to make: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpMS15kJyOY Amazing eh?
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Sep 5, 2008 21:21
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I think propane bottle threads are all reverse thread, did you try turning them the other way?
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Sep 5, 2008 21:53
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Brekelefuw, I'm assuming you are talking about removing the valve off a 20# propane tank? If so, those threads are normal and you have to unscrew it counter-clockwise. (FYI, propane bottles use standard 3/4" nominal pipe threads to screw the valve to the tank, it's the outlet port of the valve that is a special reverse thread) Let some penetrating solvent such as PB Blaster, or Kroil Oil soak overnight on it. Then heat it up with a torch to it and unscrew it using a large pipe wrench. When I remove one, I like to use a ratcheting tie down strap and secure the cylinder tightly to one of the posts that support my garage overhang so it can't move on me. Good luck, and don't blow yourself up! (Yeah, I know you said they are new never filled bottles, but I don't believe you because you are having problems with the threads  )If it is indeed a new tank, it may have a vacuum in it, so open the valve to let air in. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Sep 6, 2008 |
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Sep 6, 2008 02:00
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dv6speed posted:Brekelefuw, I will get some korosion kracker and let that soak in. I sure hope they are brand new....the store said they were and they had stickers on them saying that. I guess I won't be able to post anymore if they aren't new...
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Sep 6, 2008 17:38
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Brekelefuw posted:I will get some korosion kracker and let that soak in. Have you considered using a hack saw? The proper way to do hot work on petrolium products is to steam it out first then keep I hot and do your hot work then. I would personally never do this Job you have planned.
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Sep 6, 2008 19:04
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Going camping for a week in BC, hopefully I can watch the town blacksmith in Fort Steele for a while and pick up some pointers. Of if I'm really lucky work with them for a few hours, that would be grand. Keep up the good work folks, and please don't let this thread die, keep posting those awesome projects.
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Sep 7, 2008 09:16
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Some work on the metal workshop: I'm a big fan of the step-by-step photos, since they tell a good story. Here's the starting place for my metal workshop, with a bunch of lumber sitting there. The welding table is on the left, and the forge is there on the right. Until this picture, the welding table was on my covered deck, but I felt that the fire hazard right up next to my house wasn't a very good idea.  Here you can see that the work space is right there next to my chicken coop. Hope they don't mind the noise.  Next day, got some framing done. The main walls are 6-feet tall, and the taller sections are 8-feet tall. I have a taller section in there because I know that an overhead swing of my hammer will require a taller-than-6-feet ceiling. ... I noticed that it was awfully tall next to that fence. I asked my neighbor if it was going to be an eyesore, and he said he wouldn't mind. But then he said that he wasn't sure what his wife was going to think, so I decided to prevent a neighborly marriage crisis and move the frame. A dolly and a wife sure come in handy.  Here's the frame with some 4-foot walls next to my garden shed. I'm actually going to take over the garden shed (where else am I going to store my coal/charcoal?) and connect the walls somehow.  Here's the new welding spot. It's a little close to the doors on the shed (they swing out to open), but once the exterior walls are done, I'm not sure I'm even going to have doors on the shed. We'll see.  And here's the forge. Woo hoo.  Trusses up on the short-side of the workshop. Roof should go up in the next few days. And then I'm going to put up some aluminum screen over all the openings to keep cinders/ash from getting out. As for the interior, I'm probably going to use some thin sheet metal and cover all the exposed wood so there's little chance of everything going up in flames. Also, over the high part, I'm going to have a fully open roof. Well, screened, anyway. The shop has a dirt floor, so I don't mind rain getting in, and I'd like as much way as possible for the smoke to get out. jovial_cynic fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Sep 9, 2008 |
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Sep 9, 2008 02:59
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Nice work jovial_cynic! Man, I was like a kid in a candy store today at school. The teacher showed us how to operate the machine cutting torches (aka track burner.) That thing is loving awesome. You set it up, open the oxygen valve, flip a switch, and then sit back and watch it make a perfectly straight cut on some plate at a perfectly even speed. They have a HUGE liquid oxygen and propane tank stored in a shed outside and use piping to bring it indoors. So tomorrow morning, I get to actually use the track burner to cut up some coupons and I'll be starting on fillet welds. It'll be nice to start joining 2 pieces of metal together instead of just padding a plate. I think I've realized I'm a perfectionist when it comes to welding. I'll be in my booth thinking I'm doing a bad job, and then the head instructor will come in and tell me I'm doing a great job. I must be doing fairly well if he's having me move on to fillet welds tomorrow.
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Sep 9, 2008 21:09
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I used the track burner today to cut up some coupons. That was pretty fun... here's a picture to give you an idea of what it looks like (This isn't the one at school, just a pic I found on the internet.): I started making fillet welds. The 3 instructors tell me I'm doing good with them. I seem to be doing better with that then with plate padding (although I was told my padding was good). I find it easier to find the toes of the welds because I'm working in a corner instead of a flat plate. I'm going to bring in my auto darkening helmet and do some padding practice tomorrow... I have to pad a 4" square plate as a weld test on Friday. Oh, and is it me or do Hobart 6010 electrodes suck rear end? We seem to be having problems with them where the arc all of a sudden becomes unstable and is difficult to control and starts making funky sounds. It looks like a bad case of arc blow, but it's not. The instructor was saying he never had these issues with the Lincoln electrodes. I have a feeling their are inconsistencies in the flux coating. All I know for sure is they piss me off when I have a nice bead going and they start to gently caress up.
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Sep 11, 2008 04:18
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dv6speed posted:Oh, and is it me or do Hobart 6010 electrodes suck rear end? We seem to be having problems with them where the arc all of a sudden becomes unstable and is difficult to control and starts making funky sounds. It looks like a bad case of arc blow, but it's not. The instructor was saying he never had these issues with the Lincoln electrodes. I have a feeling their are inconsistencies in the flux coating. All I know for sure is they piss me off when I have a nice bead going and they start to gently caress up. Sounds like moisture to me- which I suppose is a sort of inconsistency in the flux. When I bought my welder it came with ~2000 rods, all older then I am packed in now long decayed plastic and tar paper, so they are horribly full of moisture. When i as just starting and was too impatient to actually treat the rods I just used them as they were, generally they start just fine at first, then they start to sputter, and the arc will kick in random directions and alternate between being very short to longer then normal length. I actually built a little box that has a light bulb (incandescent, its the heat not the light that you want) inside to dry them out, they work fine if dried. You might want to see if you can use some sort of drying mechanism the school may have available to dry those rods out and try them then.
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Sep 11, 2008 05:22
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Hobart makes poo poo rods. I wouldn't doubt that the rods are just of poor quality. I remember trying to train to weld 308 stainless steel with Hobart rods and they finger nailed like you wouldn't believe. As for moisture, in 6010 rods moisture actually helps the arc stability. You don't ever put 6010 rods into a rod oven like you do with 7018. Try this the next time you go to school, if you find that the rod burns well for the first half and then sputters out at the end. Dunk the left over half of the rod in water. The heat from burning the first half of the rod cooks away the moisture in the 2nd half. You should find the arc more stable in the 2nd half after its been soaked. Now in real life situations you would never actually do this, you would just never buy Hobart again. Air Liquide makes the best rods in my opinion with Lincoln coming in a close second. In other news my iPhone got stolen from the lunch room at work and its going to cost me $655 to replace it. Not cool. So I might just quit my job and take a TIG pipe welding course. I mean who wants to work with thieves. I went to the union hall and did some TIG plate the other day, it seemed to go about as well as it did when I was back in welding school. Edit: Also we call them Radiographs in these parts of the world, not track burners. SmokeyXIII fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Sep 11, 2008 |
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Sep 11, 2008 06:41
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Linux Assassin, You probably had low hydrogen electrodes, such as 7018. The welding codes specify they need to be stored at 250F. They have a permissible exposure limit of 4 hours before they have to be returned to the rod oven. SmokeyXIII, I will try that water trick today with the 6010 today. One of the "old school" teachers there told us that many many moons ago, they used to dip certain electrodes in water on the job site. (Certainly not allowed anymore by the codes these days) That sucks about your iPhone. If you can afford to not work for a while, I say gently caress those people and go take that TIG pipe course. Yesterday they gave us the core curriculum book for the NCCER welding certification program. This is optional for us. The neat thing is that the weld tests we take in class qualify as the tests for the certification, so the only extra work I have to do is the book work, which isn't a problem for me... not having a job, car, or girlfriend, I have PLENTY of time on my hands right now to study.
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Sep 11, 2008 11:09
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Take some pictures of your work dv6! I'd love to see how you're progressing.
SmokeyXIII fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Sep 11, 2008 |
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Sep 11, 2008 16:12
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SmokeyXIII posted:Take some pictures of your work dv6! I'd love to see how you're progressing. Speaking of pictures, I've been building a small welding table... The welding is finished, I just need to cut up some sheet metal for a shelf and stub holder, and I'll post some pics this weekend. I tried the water trick with the lovely Hobart 6010's... it didn't have any effect whatsoever, good or bad. We go through 100-200 pounds of electrodes everyday and they all come out of hermetically sealed 50 lb metal cans. I think the flux coating is not mixed consistently enough. The arc will be acting fine, start loving up, and then go back to normal all of a sudden. I prepared the coupon today for the first weld test of my career tomorrow morning, which is padding a 4" square section of plate with 6010. Wish me luck. I'm sure I'll do good. I do my best work in the morning, and we are supposed to start the test first thing. Since I go in early every day, I'll have some practice time beforehand.
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Sep 11, 2008 21:01
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dv6speed posted:I prepared the coupon today for the first weld test of my career tomorrow morning, which is padding a 4" square section of plate with 6010. Wish me luck. I'm sure I'll do good. I do my best work in the morning, and we are supposed to start the test first thing. Since I go in early every day, I'll have some practice time beforehand. The first of many, don't get too worked up over them. Two guys threw up and one guy was crying before we went for our Pressure Welding tests. Pretty embarrassing really. I've always been good about tests, I just make sure I get a good nights sleep before and eat some kind of breakfast and I'm good to go. Is it just 1 layer of build up? What size 6010 are you burning? 1/8th?
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Sep 11, 2008 21:26
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SmokeyXIII posted:The first of many, don't get too worked up over them My buddy and I finished this cart to set his forge on top of today. He did the cutting, grinding, etc, and I did all the welding. The top, which isn't shown, is a piece of heavy gauge sheet metal. I had him drill 3/16" holes 4" apart around the perimeter of the sheet metal and I welded it to the frame through the holes. Casters will be bolted to the 4 small pieces of plate on the bottom. I'll be sure to get a picture of it after he has the casters and a forge sitting on it. 
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Sep 12, 2008 02:11
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Finally got around to making a how-to video of my welded figurine process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PjCzy0zHWI
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Sep 12, 2008 05:56
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jovial_cynic posted:Finally got around to making a how-to video of my welded figurine process: I really dig this, im going to show my girlfriend because shes always asking me about my job and all the different procedures. This shows off Oxy fuel welding pretty well I think. Have you considered going to a Dry Cleaners? They always have tons of coat hangers. Also about the gloves, have you tried TIG gloves? I use them for everything. Just a couple thoughts.
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Sep 12, 2008 06:53
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jovial_cynic posted:Finally got around to making a how-to video of my welded figurine process: One comment about torch safety. Get yourself a torch striker... you should never use a butane lighter for lighting torches, if something goes wrong, it's like having a bomb in your hands. The proper striker also keeps your hand well away from the acetylene flame too.  Another thing is you never want to have a butane lighter in your pocket while doing any welding, grinding, or cutting procedures.
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Sep 12, 2008 10:33
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dv6speed posted:Great stuff! I Just skimmed through it and will watch it in greater detail when I get home today. I have a small video camera that was just given to me a couple weeks ago. I should try it out sometime soon. Oh, I know all about using a torch striker. I actually mention in the video how stupid it is to use a lighter to start a torch.
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Sep 12, 2008 14:21
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I was talking to a welder dude the other day and he said that basically O/A or Torch welding is a dying art, not being taught in the tech schools anymore. (What's the proper term for that O/A or torch?)
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Sep 12, 2008 14:31
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EVERYTHING I SAY ABOUT JAPAN OR LIVING IN JAPAN IS COMPLETELY WRONG, BUT YOU BETTER BELIEVE I'LL 
ABOUT IT.
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kapalama posted:I was talking to a welder dude the other day and he said that basically O/A or Torch welding is a dying art, not being taught in the tech schools anymore. Well, "torch" is kind of ambiguous - TIG welding using a "torch," too. O/A (oxy/acetylene) welding is the most specific, although I hear some people refer to it as "gas welding." I don't know about it being a "dying" art, though. jovial_cynic fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Sep 12, 2008 |
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Sep 12, 2008 14:44
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We still get taught how to oxy acetylene weld here in our first year. It's not so much that it will be practical for us to have that skill in the work force, but rather that it is an excellent procedure to demonstrate to students how metal melts together when you put heat to it, how when you add filler rod that reacts. It just a good foundation of knowledge to have before moving into the more advanced techniques.
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Sep 12, 2008 18:07
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Well, I disagree with oxy-fuel fusion welding being a dying art... however it is true that it's usefulness as a major industrial process is limited these days. It has a few things going against it: 1. It is a slow process that requires great operator skill for producing code quality welds. That means the labor for the process is very expensive per each foot of weld. 2. The fuel and oxygen is also very expensive per foot of weld as compared to the electricity needed for arc welding. 3. It is difficult to do good fillet welds with the oxy-fuel process. This is due to the amount of heat required. Often preheating of the base metals for fillet welds is required, which also costs money. Oxy-fuel does do butt welds well, however fillet welds are much more common with most industrial welding. Keeping all that in mind, oxy-fuel fusion welding is still a very important process. It is often used for very fine detailed work that needs lower heat then what an arc can provide, such as the work jovial_cynic does and jewelry making. It's hard to find a welding/metalworking shop that doesn't have an O/A rig. While it isn't used for welding often, an O/A rig is invaluable for brazing, heating, and cutting. So I did well on my padding test today! The head teacher gave it a 95% number grade. One of the instructors who used to be a welding inspector said that my pad would pass an AWS test! This was yet another case where I wish I did better, even though I did very well. I had actually hosed up the very first stringer bead on the plate because I veered off course, but I was able to fix it so you couldn't even tell. Oh, and the instructor has had me move on from 2F to 3F now! Got any beginner tips for vertical fillet welds with 6010/6011 SmokeyXIII? I want to do a little practice before I go back to school on Monday and I didn't get a chance to get much booth time with the instructor this afternoon to talk about vertical.
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Sep 12, 2008 22:05
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dv6speed posted:Well, I disagree with oxy-fuel fusion welding being a dying art... however it is true that it's usefulness as a major industrial process is limited these days. It has a few things going against it: You whip the first pass, then weave the rest. Use the whip to control the size of the bead you're putting in in the vertical. Try to make it small and uniform so that you wont trap any slag for your 2nd pass. For your 2nd pass weave it. This is the part that will probably throw you for a loop because you'll start getting grapes if you don't move steadily, or fast enough across the weld. This is where your timing is everything. You could count 1 2 1 2 1 2 (or get some new kids in the block stuck in your head), with one being your left side of the bead and two being the right. Whats that website where you can draw and then send the picture out to people and they can replay exactly how you drew it? I could probably better show you with that.
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Sep 12, 2008 22:25
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SmokeyXIII posted:You whip the first pass, then weave the rest. About how long do you pause, and how far do you whip as compared to horizontal fillet? Do you use more, less, or the same amount of heat?
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Sep 12, 2008 22:33
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dv6speed posted:Actually, right now we are working on vertical fillets made entirely of stringer beads. Weaved vertical fillet beads will be done later. If you weld pretty hot in the flat you should turn it down a little, if you use kind of a normal heat then it should be about okay for vertical. Use basically the same manipulation but you want to have your rod pointed upwards doing sort of a forehand progression.
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Sep 12, 2008 22:48
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Oh by the way, you can still find schools that do teach oxy-fuel welding, but they are few and far in between. I haven't done any real gas welding in a couple years, I might do a little padding practice and then *try* to make a video of it. http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/OXY_handbook/589oxy1_1.htm is the best oxy-fuel welding resource I've found on the internet if anyone is interested. Also, gas welding is considered by some to be good practice for TIG welding, because they both use separate heat and filler metal sources. In both gas and TIG welding, the manipulation of the filler metal affects the heat and the puddle in addition to the manipulation of the flame or arc. The fact that you have to use 2 hands to control 2 independent things (the filler metal and the torch) is why they are considered the hardest welding processes to learn. SmokeyXIII posted:If you weld pretty hot in the flat you should turn it down a little, if you use kind of a normal heat then it should be about okay for vertical. Use basically the same manipulation but you want to have your rod pointed upwards doing sort of a forehand progression. jovial_cynic, What software did you use for your video editing and to add in the text frames? I want to try putting my camera behind a welding hood and make an arc welding video this weekend.
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Sep 12, 2008 23:34
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dv6speed posted:I'll give it a shot in my garage either tonight or tomorrow and take some pictures. I already ran 3 passes at school... let's just say I have some practicing to do! Vertical is the hardest position to learn so practice practice practice. In time you'll have them looking like a machine did them. I'm personally still waiting for that time but I'm told the day will come.
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Sep 12, 2008 23:47
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dv6speed posted:jovial_cynic, I just used windows movie maker.
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Sep 13, 2008 00:47
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