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I won't argue, I still haven't bothered to watch past the turn in Season 1, so I'm content to think "what-if."
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Jun 28, 2015 06:32
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mind the walrus posted:I won't argue, I still haven't bothered to watch past the turn in Season 1, so I'm content to think "what-if." Even before he was the action guy so they would not have a guy who is in his 40s play that role.
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Jun 28, 2015 06:34
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I'm not arguing. I don't care that much. Really.
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Jun 28, 2015 06:36
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I guess I wasn't really clear. From what he said he never had an offer or chance at AoS, he just wanted it very badly. I don't think there was ever any intended character for him since he never had a chance in hell of being on the show.
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Jun 28, 2015 07:34
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I wasn't either. I didn't really think there was a role in-mind, I thought there was a role Brendon might have read about (Ward) and wanted to angle for, and I think he could have been good in that role. I never thought he would have actually gotten it even if he had his poo poo together either.
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Jun 28, 2015 07:44
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Coles notes: All in your head.
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Jun 28, 2015 07:45
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shadow puppet of a posted:Just to be clear we are also talking about the movement that is fine with women but hates the nepotistic enthusiast press for pushing facile poo poo like Gone Home as Game Of The Year and having the staff of Polygon use the exact language of 90's Think of The Children religious right game-ban crusaders against their hobby? No, we're talking about a movement of emotionally stunted manchildren who send rape and death threats to women who disagree with their opinions on videogames. Also, you clearly are emotionally attached to the issue, you just lack self-awareness.
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Jun 28, 2015 17:46
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Rhyno posted:We've met him about 8 times now (because his career is in such a shambles that he does cons to get by) and it was the saddest story. One summer he talks mad poo poo about Joss, What did he say
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Jun 28, 2015 18:10
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zVxTeflon posted:What did he say It goes back to when he told Brendan "Xander shouldn't be buff." He said some crazy poo poo about how Joss was a raging dickhead behind the scenes and then pointed over at some of the other actors and said "they'll back it up!" He was pretty clearly out of his mind a bit that summer. When we saw him last year he looked a little fat but was very pleasant to talk to and he had nothing terrible to say about anyone.
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Jun 28, 2015 18:33
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Strawman posted:No, we're talking about a movement of emotionally stunted manchildren who send rape and death threats to women who disagree with their opinions on videogames. Also, you clearly are emotionally attached to the issue, you just lack self-awareness. To be clear are you sifting out the threats they send themselves for publicity and the threats they send back? Those are important distinctions. I see them as being like The Trio, yes, they are evil, yes they tried to rape Amy Madison and killed her in the process, but after nearly a year the remains of the movement have whittled down their criminality to the equivalent of stealing gemstones and eventually capturing evil monks, and from there becoming well dressed Italian Lotharios. What Andrew did or passively permitted was horrible, but Andrew of the now is doing good work by re-focusing his attitude away from the attempted rape and murder of Amy Madison towards nobler acts like rescuing that crazed potential from Wolfram and Hart.
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Jun 28, 2015 19:06
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mind the walrus posted:I won't argue, I still haven't bothered to watch past the turn in Season 1, so I'm content to think "what-if." Yeah I do this with Firefly as well. I'm cool like that, too.
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Jun 28, 2015 19:18
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Basically all you need to know about Baldwin as a person is that he invented the term "Gamergate," which if you are at all sane means that someone should have banned him from using social media or, really, doing anything but acting, ages and ages ago.
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Jun 28, 2015 23:06
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shadow puppet of a posted:Being able to read the writings of both camps because you like a good shitshow is not emotional investment. Wait, from reading this am I supposed to believe all the childish death and rape threats and the like are in the past? I say that because I still see those interspersed with every article on the subject I fail to avoid reading... (Amongst all the ones plaintively closin claiming it's all about ethics in journalism with no other input)
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Jun 30, 2015 11:56
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I think its down to a gin martini ratio of death threats to ethics in toy reviewing. Started out sweet on the vermouth of threats but got drier as tastes changed. Lots of angry movements have awful people doing awful things in them. I'm not opposed to saving the environment just because car dealerships get torched every few years. Or, and again back to Whedon, its like if your hired Mmmm-fashnik and he deviated from the script to attack the slayer rather than rob the bank. You'd do your best to tell Mm' what to do right, but at some point you realize that the demon you created is out of your control and will have to be put down, by, ironically the slayer he tried to kill. To that point, if something good happens and every threat-sender is arrested and thrown in jail, and not broken out ala Billy Blim, do we then go back to a world where its kosher for kelepek to use his pulpit to push business his friends way with no simple prior disclosure as every other industry seems to not screech angrily about having the burden of? All sorts of worse and more captive enthusiast journalist can say things like 'I drove this on a test track in Valencia, furnished by the Daewoo motors corporation" And to answer your question, of course Andrew still had a little evil left in his evil heart.
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Jun 30, 2015 12:12
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What a procession of terrible metaphors. ANYWAY Has anyone been listening to the Dusted podcast? They've just got up to the middle of Buffy series 3, and its fantastic. So in-depth - each episode is about 1.5-2hrs long, and I've been enjoying listening to them all. https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/dusted-a-buffy-podcast/id921298527?mt=2
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Jun 30, 2015 13:14
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shadow puppet of a posted:I think its down to a gin martini ratio of death threats to ethics in toy reviewing. Started out sweet on the vermouth of threats but got drier as tastes changed. Adam Baldwin, and his hashtag, suck.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:00
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I've been grinding along through watching ~ 3-4 episodes of Buffy/Angel a week with a neophyte. We hit a big snag in Season 4/Season 1 because both seasons were progressing too slowly for her attention span, so I cut some deadweight out of the back half of Season 1 of Angel and beelined to "Restless" to keep her interested, moving through Season 5 with a pit stop for "Are you now or have you ever been?" because that episode is loving awesome. Once we're done with Season 5 we'll alternate to Angel, and then move onto Season 6. We finally got to "The Body" two nights ago. It took over a year but I managed to keep her in the dark and goddammit if it wasn't worth it. The only problem is she hates Spuffy, loves the gently caress out of Giles, and was wondering if the show was going to be depressing from now on, so Season 6-7 is going to take a lot of "I know, I know, but that's kind-of the point just stick with it." At least she sympathizes with Dawn instead of hating her.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:08
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I've slowed down in my watch a lot, because I've had some connectivity problems that cause my framerate to drop and ruin my gifs. I'm at the beginning of season 4 (and watching Angel season 1 at the same time). The roommate episode is hilarious. I think it's miraculous Angel survived until season 2. They can't decide on a direction at all (It's a procedural! It's an anthology show! It's a Buffy continuation! It's a hardboiled noir! It's about urban isolation as a young adult, except it's about being a teenager, except, gently caress it, it's Angel! Watch!). I also remember not one, but two instances of Angel essentially being offered the ability not to be a vampire and turning them down in season 1, and the embarrassing Nazi metaphor episode with Doyle's death. I'm sort of looking forward to the trainwreck of it all, though. It's a lot more fun when you're grabbing images and writing reviews, even if reviews for Buffy/Angel have been done to death.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:14
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I remember not hating Angel Season 1 all that much the first time I watched it, but doing the re-watch where I couldn't marathon it was a revelation. Watching the episodes back to back to back really smooths over the tonal dissonance. I feel the most for Doyle's actor, who put in a thankless job even though his work was the prototype for demon/human cultural overlap that came to underline the back half of Buffy and almost all of Angel. Bicyclops posted:I also remember not one, but two instances of Angel essentially being offered the ability not to be a vampire and turning them down in season 1 It's especially funny when the whole Shanshu Prophecy that caps the season outlines ~~hope~~ that Angel can transcend his vampirism and he gives a gently caress, but he turned town two karmic gifts the universe dropped into his lap because ~~honor~~ the first time and "I can't help Buffy anymore because I got too used to using vampire powers to win a fight" the second. Hah, I realized writing that the darkest irony of the second time is that his reasoning there is essentially Riley's arc in "Out of my mind" and makes me wonder if Buffy would have accidentally shut Angel out if he had said "gently caress it" and gone back to Sunnydale as a human.
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Jun 30, 2015 14:41
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Yeah, they can't figure out what to do with Doyle, which is a shame, because uh, there are only three characters!
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Jun 30, 2015 14:55
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Bicyclops posted:Yeah, they can't figure out what to do with Doyle, which is a shame, because uh, there are only three characters! They had to work around the actors "demons"
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Jun 30, 2015 15:36
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bobkatt013 posted:They had to work around the actors "demons" I think that's very true and why they killed him off, but it's kind of weird to cast somebody and then hedge your bets on committing to developing their character (when there are only three people in the main cast).
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Jun 30, 2015 18:35
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Bicyclops posted:I think that's very true and why they killed him off, but it's kind of weird to cast somebody and then hedge your bets on committing to developing their character (when there are only three people in the main cast). He could have been clean when they signed the contract or he was able to hide it and it just got worse and worse.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:38
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bobkatt013 posted:He could have been clean when they signed the contract or he was able to hide it and it just got worse and worse. This, plus I think the story goes he was starting to drag Boreanaz down with him. No idea if that's true, but it's what I've read.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:57
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Toaster Beef posted:This, plus I think the story goes he was starting to drag Boreanaz down with him. No idea if that's true, but it's what I've read. It would explain this screenshot!  (I think it's probably just the normally pretty good makeup team screwed up royally on his forehead and cheeks.)
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Jun 30, 2015 18:59
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Glen Quinn's actual death was very sad but the killing off of Doyle lead Wesley to join the team and if you don't like Wesley THEN GET THE gently caress OUT OF THIS THREAD.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:32
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Rhyno posted:Glen Quinn's actual death was very sad but the killing off of Doyle lead Wesley to join the team and if you don't like Wesley THEN GET THE gently caress OUT OF THIS THREAD. Agreed. Best early-going cast-addition ever to happen to a show.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:36
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Rhyno posted:Glen Quinn's actual death was very sad but the killing off of Doyle lead Wesley to join the team and if you don't like Wesley THEN GET THE gently caress OUT OF THIS THREAD. I can see someone not liking Buffy Wesley but if you don't like Angel Wesley THEN GET THE gently caress OUT OF THIS THREAD.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:41
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Strawman posted:I can see someone not liking Buffy Wesley but if you don't like Angel Wesley THEN GET THE gently caress OUT OF THIS THREAD. Even our heroes can have humble beginnings. All Wesley = Best Wesley.
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Jun 30, 2015 22:47
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Strawman posted:I can see someone not liking Buffy Wesley but if you don't like Angel Wesley THEN GET THE gently caress OUT OF THIS THREAD. Upon a rewatch, it's actually amazing how much you identify with him over the people the show clearly wants us to side with in Buffy. Like, he's mildly condescending to Giles, which he apologizes for, but everyone is completely rude to him for absolutely no reason immediately, and they never stop. He comes into his new job optimistically and really read to get started, is put in an extremely difficult situation, tries continuously to be courteous, understand and adjust, and only calls into Watcher HR when there's an actual murder going on. He actually bucks their authority later to be more understanding to Buffy and finally resigns officially and just offers his help (while turning an insult hurled his way into a self-deprecating joke). The worst that can be said about him on Buffy is: A) he is a bit of a coward when it comes to physical pain and B) the Cordelia thing, which definitely is gross. But even that, when he's introduced to her, he thinks she's a teacher and that his interest is perfectly appropriate, and he recoils as if he just touched a fire when he hears she's a student. The whole thing seems like a joke around the fact that Charisma Carpenter, even more than the rest of the cast, looks nothing like a high school student.
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Jul 1, 2015 00:56
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I can not think of another character in the whole of serialized television that had as amazing of a character arc as Wesley Wyndham-Pryce.
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Jul 1, 2015 01:08
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Personal anecdote time: I always saw Buffy-Wesley as a joke about how casual viewers saw Giles in an attempt to make Giles less twee. "Oh you think Giles is a stuffy, foppish, soft British dandy? Here's a real stuffy, foppish, soft British dandy and look at how much the Scoobies loving hate him." Even the name Wesley could have been a conceptual joke on purposefully introducing a Wesley Crusher-like lightning rod for fan hate. I saw this precisely because when Buffy originally aired my teenage cousin was so very into the show and being a typical 11 year-old boy my kneejerk reaction was that it was a "GIRL POWER" show and only caught the show casually, and I remember my cousin correcting me multiple times that Wesley and Giles were two different guys. In my defense my literally homosexual brothers were listening to the first two Spice Girls album 24/7 around this time so anything "GIRL POWER" set off cultural PTSD alarms in me. That having been said he did grow into one of the best characters in the entire series, but even in Angel Season One getting him out of "cartoonish fop" mode is like pulling motherfucking teeth.
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Jul 1, 2015 01:10
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mind the walrus posted:That having been said he did grow into one of the best characters in the entire series, but even in Angel Season One getting him out of "cartoonish fop" mode is like pulling motherfucking teeth. Nah. It all changed very quickly once he was tortured by Faith.
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Jul 1, 2015 01:15
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He's not even that much of a cartoonish fop most of the time, is the weird thing. The other characters just react as if he is. A lot of it is the "watching this show as an adult, you identify with Joyce more often than Buffy when they fight" kind of thing, but like, seriously, he's just a guy who's green at his job and balks a little when he has to actually deal with violence.
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Jul 1, 2015 01:16
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Bicyclops posted:he's just a guy who's green at his job and balks a little when he has to actually deal with violence. Amazing how far behind him that was by season 3 isn't it?
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Jul 1, 2015 01:17
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Rhyno posted:Amazing how far behind him that was by season 3 isn't it? It'll be interesting to get to the back half of Angel again. Like I said, I'm moving through it like a snail at the moment, but watching grizzled, five o'clock shadow Wesley is going to be fun.
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Jul 1, 2015 01:21
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there is a reason Wes has the second most number of episode appearances behind Angel
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Jul 1, 2015 01:56
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Bicyclops posted:He's not even that much of a cartoonish fop most of the time, is the weird thing. The other characters just react as if he is. As an adult it's easy to see him that way, but I'd argue that because the characters are 17-18 and sheltered in weird ways (e.g: they don't internally realize how uncommon their teenage "soldier against darkness" life actually is and how much physical abuse they've actually been through compared to most people), Giles sees some of his own shortcomings reflected in Wesley, and Faith is a straight-up rear end in a top hat to anyone who isn't hard enough to handle her cause Daddy Issues, it's understandable why the characters react that strongly.
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Jul 1, 2015 01:56
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they are dicks to Wesley because they are teenagers
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Jul 1, 2015 02:01
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bowmore posted:they are dicks to Wesley because they are teenagers Yeah, it's this. Like, it rings true. They also bully Giles about his crush on Miss Calendar and everything else, Wesley is just completely disconnected and young enough that the cool teens bullying him makes him feel bad.
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Jul 1, 2015 03:06
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