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locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I've noticed that there have been several questions in this forum regarding MBAs so I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to the topic.

Having an MBA myself, I can answer some of the questions regarding the programs, etc. but of course, my knowledge is limited to my experience and that of the others I know who have the degree. Just like the opinions and information regarding any schooling are varied, so too is the information regarding the MBA. What I hope is to create a thread where the information can be centralized.

1. What is an MBA?
MBA stands for masters of business administration. It is exactly what it sounds like, a graduate level degree in business administration. At it's heart, it is a generalist degree, wherein you learn to be the boss. There are specific concentration type tracks in some MBA programs where if you have electives you can choose to focus more on finance, marketing, operations management, etc. However, even if you have a concentration in say, finance, you will still take some marketing classes, some management classes, etc.

2. I see schools offering different lengths of programs, what's the deal?

Traditionally, the MBA is a 2 year full time program. It's like an extra two years of full time college studies. Some schools offer a 1 year program that accelerates the pace and runs 12 straight months. Various schools also offer part time MBA programs where people tend to work during the day and attend classes on evenings or weekend. One particular kind of part time program is the Executive MBA, and that usually requires a certain level of business and management experience.

3. Is a full time program better than a part time, one year, or EMBA program?

It really depends on who you ask. Like I said, the two year program tends to be the most traditional, but there is still value in the other programs for students. In the EMBA programs, most of the students tend to have quite a bit of business experience anyway along with full time management positions, so in essence it's not as imperative that they spend as much time in the classroom as others. Of course, there can be some bias one way or another, but by and large, the full time programs tend to have more prestige than part time ones.

4. I want to go into profession X, is an MBA right for me?
It really depends. I know that's a poo poo answer, but ask yourself this question knowing full well that an MBA is very much a degree teaching how to become a better manager. "Will the career I am hoping for require ultra specific skills that an MBA can not provide? If that is the case, is there a degree that is better for me?" It's also helpful to look at and talk to people who already have the job you want. Do they have MBAs? Would they recommend you get one?

5. My undergraduate was not in business, can I still get an MBA?
Yes. My undergraduate degree was in international politics and I got one. One of my classmates went to West Point. His degree was in blowing people up. Another person I know studied engineering. There are all sorts of backgrounds in business school and each one brings a unique insight to challenging problems that often have no correct answers.


6. There are no correct answers? What the hell?
Well, there are and there aren't in business school. Excluding obvious examples where there is the need to know and apply a formula to get a correct answer like in some finance classes, there isn't always a clear answer. In many business schools "case studies" are used in which a real business event is studied and then the students are asked to come up with a solution. It sounds deceptively simple, but it can be incredibly complex as many different situations and factors may have to be considered in creating a solution. In many of my classes there was rarely two teams with similar results, and yet many of them could be considered "correct".

7. Teams? I don't play well with others.
Too drat bad. Business school is just like business, in that no man is a island. Some schools lock you in to a team that is supposed to give a good mix of skills. Some times teams are self-selected, and sometimes its both.

8. Ok, so I'm going to apply. I want to go to the best school I can. Which one is the best?
This is a really dangerous question because the amount of business schools has grown greatly, and "best" is so subjective. US News, Wall Street Journal, etc. all issue rankings regarding the "BEST BUSINESS SCHOOL" and everyone runs to get a copy and deans across the country commit seppaku after falling 3 spots. In reality rankings are only part of the picture and become meaningless in certain situations.

9. That sounds like a loving cop out.
That's because it is. I can tell you this. The "Big 3" sort of holy trinity of business schools are Harvard, Wharton, and Stanford. Regardless of their rankings everyone loves them and people throw paper airplanes folded out of $100 bills at you if you went there. Is the accounting you learn at Harvard somehow better than the class at your local commuter school? Probably not, but let's not pretend that the halos of prestige and history have no effect on school rankings. Close behind, and in most regards just as good you have schools like Dartmouth, Chicago, Michigan, Duke, Virginia, Northwestern, MIT, Columbia, maybe NYU and a few others. These are sort of "Tier 1a" schools. They still kick rear end and are loving awesome, but for whatever reason (marketing) they lack the glitz and glamour of the big three and are eternally doomed to fight for the remaining 7 spots on any "Top 10 best B-schools" list. The next group of schools are still very very good and include places like Georgia Tech, USC, Carnegie Mellon, Emory, Notre Dame, UCLA, Texas, etc. There are a bunch here, and I'm sure I left out your alma mater. Don't bother bitching about it, I don't care. No one is going to argue that these schools suck, and in many regards they are just as good as some of the higher ranked schools. However, like I said before, these "best of" lists are very subjective and rely heavily on non-quantifiable things. People will argue until they are blue in the face about which school is better than the other one, but the important choice is to make the right decision for you.

10. How do I know what school is the right one for me?
Research, dummy. Too many people pick a school based on a pamphlet and a ranking. They have the worst 2 years of their life and get nothing out of the experience. There are a few things to consider. Firstly, some schools are more renown for specializing in a certain field of business. Want to live near Chicago but like marketing? Then University of Chicago was not your best choice. Northwestern was. Are you a nerd who loves inventing poo poo? Then consider MIT. All schools have strengths and weaknesses in their programs, it's not hard to find out what they are. Looking at places like the Princeton Review and Vault.com can give you a good idea not only of what the program strengths/weaknesses are, but what your life will be like there. Want to live in a big city? Skip Iowa State and consider NYU. The fit is important when considering business school, just like it would be for any job. Your best bet is to go to the best business school you can that you can imagine yourself spending time at.

locdogg fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Sep 27, 2008

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locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
11. When should I go?
This is a hard question because it involves a lot of personal preference. However, I can tell you this from my own personal observations. Those who have spent a few years post bachelors working in the real world perform significantly better in business school than those who have not. It seems as if those 3-5 years of work really made the difference in their abilities to perform in b-school. That said, there are some 5 year programs that grant BA/MBA or BS/MBA or whatever. Lots of people go through these and turn out just fine. However I am glad I had a few years of "real world" before I went back to school.

12. Is MBA school like undergrad?
Not really. If you're looking for 2 more years of undergrad, forget it. Firstly, most of the students are now adults, and so much of the bullshit that went on as undergrads doesn't happen as much in MBA programs. Some of the students will even have spouses and kids, which can change your outlook on life dramatically. Of course people still get drunk, have sex, whatever, but somehow it's different because you're not 18 anymore. It's more "Melrose Place" less "90210" if that makes any sense. If you understand that reference, you are probably old like me. A second thing to consider is that MBA programs are very much a boys club. The ratio of men to women is 70/30 or thereabouts depending on the program. This changes the dynamic as you could imagine and creates a different environment than undergraduate studies.

13. How do I get in?
The first thing you need is a GMAT score from the GMAC. This is a standardized test that is sort of like the SAT but marginally designed to test your ability to perform in business school. Volumes have been written about the GMAT, for better or worse, and you can find all about it in one of those books.

Foreign students need a TOEFEL if English is not your native language. I've heard cheating is rampant in this test as well as the GMAT, so certain schools are putting less weight on them. Take that with a grain of salt.

You will also likely be asked to fill out a form, submit a transcript, write some essays, and get recommendations. Recommendations from alumni of the school you're applying for are always a good bet, but not essential. Your essays, as it turns out, are really pretty important. Don't gently caress around on them. They can make you or break you depending on how you do. Proofread the poo poo out of them and have someone re-read them for you.


Finally, many schools have interviews. If you get an interview, that's usually a good sign implying you made it past the first round of cuts or whatever. From what I understand, interviewers are trying to determine if you'll be a good addition to the program, and sometimes really qualified candidates get the boot because they are douchebags. Just be yourself, relax and be friendly and honest. They interview people all day every day and can get a pretty good read on you.

14. What if my undergrad GPA was blah.blah blah and my GMAT was yak yak yak? Will I get in to school X?

How the gently caress do I know? Call the admissions office and ask them. They'll probably charge you at least $100 (often a lot more) to find out the answer, but at least then you'll know for sure.

15. I'm not from the USA, what should I consider?
Firstly, recognize that schools in the US are different than in many places. For example, an Indian classmate of mine was amazed at how informal class was run and that students would regularly challenge the instructors. Apparently this is not commonplace in India and required a huge adjustment in outlook on their behalf. Secondly, I would suggest that you do not spend your time exclusively with the other classmates from your country/region. If you bothered to travel all the way to the United States for school, you may as well get as much "America" as possible while you're here. Spend time with the US students, doing things they might enjoy. Some of my best memories when I studied abroad involved doing things of local color.

16. I'm black/a woman/not white or asian. Does this make a difference?
Yes it does. Welcome to business school. It's no secret that diversity is a very desirable for business schools and they seek to have representatives of all walks of life. While being a minority won't help you on your Economics test once you're in, it will certainly help you on your admissions packet.

17. After graduating, it's a gravy train, right? I mean, all ibanks and cigars.
Wrong. A lot of recently hired MBAs are getting shitcanned as we speak and lots more never got jobs in May. It's just part of the environment. Having an MBA helps, but it is no guarantee of success. Business school is a great way to expand the "who you know" network though, and some schools have more notable alumni networks than others who may be of use later in life.

18. What topics can I expect in MBA school?
As I stated earlier, you learn how to be the boss, and as such, you get a pretty broad exposure to most facets of business. The core accounting, finance, marketing, operations, strategy, and management courses are pretty much universally required. Most schools are requiring ethics now as well, but some take it more seriously than others. Other courses may include international operations, entrepreneurship, some sort of speaking/writing course, negotiations, problem solving, and more specific core classes (like tax accountancy or corporate debt finance).

19. School X says it's on a "module" system, what does that mean?
Some schools have begun adapting to this system where terms only last 8ish weeks. It's like academic quarters, where you complete an entire course in 8 weeks. It can seem fast and students can cover a lot of ground, but the trade-off is that often the classes don't tend to go as deep in to the subject.

20. Will I have any fun at all?
Yes. In my experience, going to business school was like having a job. That's how I treated it. But even people with jobs still have free time sometimes. I went to big university style events, spent time at bars, concerts, even with girls. It's possible to balance school with fun. Overall, I'd say it was a very positive experience, and I appreciated the time I had in business school much more than I did my undergrad experience.

This is only a small part of business school, and if there are specific questions I could answer about my experience, I'd be happy to give you my viewpoint. I'm pretty sure there are at least a few other MBA grads here who may be able to offer some advice or input too.

Omits-Bagels
Feb 13, 2001
This would be a good question for everyone... what are you doing with your MBA now?

What kind of salary are you/your classmates making now? How much debt do you have now?

Did you think it was really tough?

locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Omits-Bagels posted:

This would be a good question for everyone... what are you doing with your MBA now?

What kind of salary are you/your classmates making now? How much debt do you have now?

Did you think it was really tough?

I'd like to stay away from specifics about myself if you don't mind, but I can give you some semi-anonymous information I suppose.

Me: I'm in marketing now, but prior to my MBA I was in consulting.

Post MBA: I think the average salary for my class was in the mid to high 90's, but I'm not sure. It of course varies depending on where you go to school, where you come from before school, what you did after school, where your new job is located, etc.

Debt, well figure a top flight MBA currently costs $40k-ish a year plus living expenses. If it's a two year program, you can do the math. Some schools offer fellowships/scholarships etc. and if you're lucky, you can get your employer to reimburse you.

Do I think it was tough? Not in the same sense as say, boot camp or something like that. Were there some long days? Yes, but I never felt completely and hopelessly lost. I would say that for the most part, people considering going to get an MBA (especially the full timers) are a self-selecting group and tend to be pretty smart and motivated to begin with, which makes the mechanical parts of schooling easier.

salted hash browns
Mar 26, 2007
ykrop
As a current business undergrad, what can I do right now to help when I start trying to get a MBA? (I know that I'll get a graduate degree, and a MBA seems like one of my top grad degrees right now.) If you want to pursue a MBA at a prestigious school, how do you even begin to start looking down that path?

How long did you work before coming back to get your MBA?

I'm currently in a CIS major, and want to continue working with computers in my future career(s). Would it be worth it to get the MBA with a focus in IS?

ExCruceLeo
Oct 4, 2003

I'll choose the truth I like.
I have been looking into starting an MBA program and I know some of the schools I looked at (some private some not) say that if your GPA was below a certain point, you still have a chance but you will be on a probationary period and can't make below a B.


I figure I will wait a few years before I go just to get some work experience but if I get an opportunity I'm not going to pass it up.


I have heard that if you went to a private university for your undergrad that it is a good idea to go public for your graduate. Anyone ever heard anything like that?

bhaltair
Jan 7, 2008
I'm graduating in December 2008 (2.5 months) and my job search has been rather depressing. Ideally I'd go get my MBA and hope things settle down/fix themselves by the time I graduate but I'm not sure if I have that option. I obviously want to get in to a top MBA program but I don't have the work experience. Any suggestions?

Also, I want to take the GMAT but I have no idea how to best prepare myself. Should I just buy some of the prep books and do some self-study? Enroll in a GMAT prep program? Is there an internet resource that would help? Thanks again.

Edit: Oh yea I'm a Finance and Management major at a top 20 undergrad b-school but I screwed up my first 2/3 of college so my GPA is crap. I do have three internships under my belt though.

locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

iamthexander posted:

As a current business undergrad, what can I do right now to help when I start trying to get a MBA? (I know that I'll get a graduate degree, and a MBA seems like one of my top grad degrees right now.) If you want to pursue a MBA at a prestigious school, how do you even begin to start looking down that path?

How long did you work before coming back to get your MBA?

I'm currently in a CIS major, and want to continue working with computers in my future career(s). Would it be worth it to get the MBA with a focus in IS?
I'm not really sure exactly what the formula is for admittance, but I can tell you this: good experience never hurt anyone. For me, I had 4 years out in the real world and that certainly helped me not only get admitted to B-school, but also in my maturity level. There were some of my classmates who were much younger (we had a 19 year old doogie howser type kid) and while they kicked rear end at theoretical stuff, they lacked the sort of real world exposure that helped in certain situations.

You may also want to consider an MIS degree in lieu of an MBA, and like I said, an MBA teaches you to be the boss, but an MIS is much more specific to IS stuff.

ExCruceLeo posted:

I have been looking into starting an MBA program and I know some of the schools I looked at (some private some not) say that if your GPA was below a certain point, you still have a chance but you will be on a probationary period and can't make below a B.


I figure I will wait a few years before I go just to get some work experience but if I get an opportunity I'm not going to pass it up.


I have heard that if you went to a private university for your undergrad that it is a good idea to go public for your graduate. Anyone ever heard anything like that?

Most MBA programs have a minimum GPA requirements anyway, so I'm not sure about probationary stuff. However, I've never heard the public/private thing. It really doesn't make sense though. If you went to Harvard for your undergrad and then to Wharton for your MBA, do you think anyone would go "Oh well, that's great, but 2 private schools? No thank you." There used to be some sort of bias against people who spent their entire academic career in the same school, but that was generally for more non-professional degrees (english, philosophy, even some hard science) where 1 on 1 with professors is more the norm. In business school, there usually isn't time to form working relationships with all the professors that could somehow be call in to question academic integrity.


bhaltair posted:

I'm graduating in December 2008 (2.5 months) and my job search has been rather depressing. Ideally I'd go get my MBA and hope things settle down/fix themselves by the time I graduate but I'm not sure if I have that option. I obviously want to get in to a top MBA program but I don't have the work experience. Any suggestions?

Also, I want to take the GMAT but I have no idea how to best prepare myself. Should I just buy some of the prep books and do some self-study? Enroll in a GMAT prep program? Is there an internet resource that would help? Thanks again.

Edit: Oh yea I'm a Finance and Management major at a top 20 undergrad b-school but I screwed up my first 2/3 of college so my GPA is crap. I do have three internships under my belt though.

Bad news, traditionally in times of economic downturn, applications to grad school are up. When things are good, applications are down. Realistically, if you're class of 2011, things should be much better by then economically though, so that's good.

The GMAT is like the SAT on steroids, and while not particularly hard it is really more an exercise in endurance than straight smarts. The hardest stuff was some simple Trig and geometry I think. Certainly nothing like Calc or anything like that. When I took it, I sat in a room with a bunch of cubes. In each cube was a computer, and you take the test for like 4 hours. I think there is a 10 minute bathroom break in there, but I'm not sure. Either way, towards the end people tend to get buggy, which can be a problem. There are several guides and prep classes out there, but my advice is at the very least to take a few practice exams (I think the Princeton Review book comes with a CD with a few on it). Maybe you should buy one of the guides for about $30, check it out, take a few practices. I know the prep classes are generally major $$$, so they are for people who A) generally already have jobs B) are deadly serious about their MBA. From what I've heard, they are pretty good, but I didn't take one.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


locdogg posted:

At it's heart, it is a generalist degree, wherein you learn to be the boss.

I think this is potentially misleading. It's not like getting your MBA entails an automatic promotion to management. Rather, an MBA provides you with the business background that is necessary for the boss to have. And I also think it's very important to stress the generalist nature of the degree. The real purpose of studying various topics as part of an MBA is to allow you to ask intelligent questions of experts in those topics, and not be totally lost by the answer. Of course, there are exceptions--for example, people who study finance at Wharton do end up knowing a lot about finance--but those should be viewed as exceptions rather than the norm.

(I hope I'm not coming across as too down on MBA programs. It's a valuable degree, and even more so when you understand exactly what it is and what its limitations are.)

locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

ultrafilter posted:

I think this is potentially misleading. It's not like getting your MBA entails an automatic promotion to management. Rather, an MBA provides you with the business background that is necessary for the boss to have. And I also think it's very important to stress the generalist nature of the degree. The real purpose of studying various topics as part of an MBA is to allow you to ask intelligent questions of experts in those topics, and not be totally lost by the answer. Of course, there are exceptions--for example, people who study finance at Wharton do end up knowing a lot about finance--but those should be viewed as exceptions rather than the norm.

(I hope I'm not coming across as too down on MBA programs. It's a valuable degree, and even more so when you understand exactly what it is and what its limitations are.)

No, you're not being harsh at all, you're exactly correct. It was stressed over and over again in my program that taking one or maybe two statistics class does not make you qualified to be a statistician, but rather hopefully allows you to at least ask intelligent questions of statisticians. The same could be said about marketing, finance, etc. If you want to be an expert in a field, get a PhD. If you want to learn to manage a business, which entails a broad base of disciplines, an MBA is the degree for you. Of course with concentrations, your depth can go deeper to some regards, but the MBA degree is ultimately about learning to be a good manager.

That of course is both the beauty and danger of the degree. You study a broad selection of topics, but sometimes a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. One of the best instructors I had used to yell at us all the time (figuratively of course, not like Sam Kinneson in Back to School) that we were trying to formulate answers when instead we should be formulating questions. It can also be dangerous when non-MBA holders expect too much out of you with regards to specific disciplines. That's something that's becoming less common though as the degree becomes more commonplace.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost
OP, I think you may have started copy-pasting funny in the first post. I see it repeating at about point #6 and it repeating at #1 again with the same content as the beginning of the post. You may want to edit that :)

I've heard of some masters programs offering an MBA as a minor and am wondering if it's basically as worthless as bachelors' degree minors in practice. I'm considering doing an engineering masters with an MBA minor, but if it's just better to stick with one specialization, I wouldn't be surprised.

Secondly, I'm wondering if going full-time into an MBA program is a much better idea than doing one part-time while working. I've got an awful lot of commitments that prevent me from going to school full time and am finding it could be several years before I could be a full time student. A big goal of going to any graduate school for me is for networking, and I don't see how going part time would help me with that goal whatsoever.

Modern Life Is War
Aug 17, 2006

I'm not just eye candy
I've just started by part-time MBA--it's been slow-going and exhausting at night. I'll be done in 3.5 to 4 years. I'm taking a prerequisite Calculus course and a starter course on management.

I also like the way how it's finally 'my turn' to have an MBA just as the industry it'd be useful for is melting down. :a2m:

Omits-Bagels
Feb 13, 2001
What about the GMAT? I am pretty terrible at those types of tests. What is the best way to prepare?

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice
So I'm considering going for my MBA sometime soon in the future but I've got a question concerning the type of program to shoot for.

My background is in Engineering and I'll be finishing up a Masters in the subject (part time on the company dime while working full time) next summer. I'd like to start working on an MBA soon thereafter. It seems like everyone who goes to a full time program aspires to finance, investment banking, and fields such as that. I'd like to get the advantages of having a top program on my diploma, but I don't know if it's worth taking two years out and paying for it out of my own pocket if I intend on staying in the engineering field. I really am just looking for the MBA to expand my skillset so I can get into higher level management at some point down the road. If you don't intend on going into the banking industry is there any reason to take the time, effort, and expense to go to a full time program?

If I go part time it would be at the University of Iowa's Tippie School of Business, which is a decently ranked program. Also my current company would pay for it. The obvious downside is that if I go this route it'll open doors for me within the company, but not as many as I might like if I decide to move out of the area with another company.

locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Thoguh posted:

So I'm considering going for my MBA sometime soon in the future but I've got a question concerning the type of program to shoot for.

My background is in Engineering and I'll be finishing up a Masters in the subject (part time on the company dime while working full time) next summer. I'd like to start working on an MBA soon thereafter. It seems like everyone who goes to a full time program aspires to finance, investment banking, and fields such as that. I'd like to get the advantages of having a top program on my diploma, but I don't know if it's worth taking two years out and paying for it out of my own pocket if I intend on staying in the engineering field. I really am just looking for the MBA to expand my skillset so I can get into higher level management at some point down the road. If you don't intend on going into the banking industry is there any reason to take the time, effort, and expense to go to a full time program?

If I go part time it would be at the University of Iowa's Tippie School of Business, which is a decently ranked program. Also my current company would pay for it. The obvious downside is that if I go this route it'll open doors for me within the company, but not as many as I might like if I decide to move out of the area with another company.

Not every person from top flight MBA programs go into banking. Believe it or not, some even go into non-profits! Especially now, given the current environment, people with MBAs will be heading to regular industry as opposed to Wall St.

Iowa is a decent school, obviously not as sexy as Harvard or something, but most a Big Ten degree is always a solid bet. I wouldn't limit your choices to either "apply to Iowa or apply to someplace else". Spread your apps around, since taking anything for granted in this environment is risky. MBA apps will likely rise if history is an indicator as job opportunities dry up for people so they look for someway else to spend their time.

My advice is spread your apps around, Iowa plus a few other places you are interested in. Once you get some admissions packages in your hands, your decision would likely become easier. Right now, who knows what your choice may even be?

courtney_beth
Jul 23, 2007

I SHALL NOT USE MY
HOOVES AS HANDS

Omits-Bagels posted:

What about the GMAT? I am pretty terrible at those types of tests. What is the best way to prepare?

STUDY STUDY STUDY!

There's a great program out there called Manhattan GMAT - a set of 8 books that go over each section in depth. Four books for mathematics, covering each type of question. Four books for verbal, focusing in on reading comprehension, etc. They're quite fantastic. I think they retail for about $25 each on Amazon.com, but you can find used sets on eBay all the time.

Also get yourself the "Official Review Guides" - the Yellow, Purple and Green books. They're older questions from past tests and still relevant.

Study those and you're on a way to a 700+ score.

Loaf30
Oct 22, 2002
College Slice

courtney_beth posted:

STUDY STUDY STUDY!

There's a great program out there called Manhattan GMAT - a set of 8 books that go over each section in depth. Four books for mathematics, covering each type of question. Four books for verbal, focusing in on reading comprehension, etc. They're quite fantastic. I think they retail for about $25 each on Amazon.com, but you can find used sets on eBay all the time.

Also get yourself the "Official Review Guides" - the Yellow, Purple and Green books. They're older questions from past tests and still relevant.

Study those and you're on a way to a 700+ score.

Good advice, thanks for that.

What is your (or the OP's) take on AACSB accredidation? Would you consider it a "nice to have" or a necessity? I'm active duty military and it may be tough for me to get an MBA via the traditional route.

Oodles
Oct 31, 2005

I am a year out of school, having just graduated with a Masters in Engineering. I am thinking about getting my chartership first (another 3 years) then hitting up my MBA.

I am in the UK, so do you know of any good schools over here for MBA, rather than just London Business School?

locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Oodles posted:

I am a year out of school, having just graduated with a Masters in Engineering. I am thinking about getting my chartership first (another 3 years) then hitting up my MBA.

I am in the UK, so do you know of any good schools over here for MBA, rather than just London Business School?

http://rankings.ft.com/global-mba-rankings

Oxbridge is always a good choice, but pretty much anything in this top 100 list indicates a "good school" that is at least locally/regionally respected. Hopefully this list can give you an idea of who in the UK is considered to be a good B-school.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade



locdogg posted:

There used to be some sort of bias against people who spent their entire academic career in the same school, but that was generally for more non-professional degrees (english, philosophy, even some hard science) where 1 on 1 with professors is more the norm. In business school, there usually isn't time to form working relationships with all the professors that could somehow be call in to question academic integrity.

I was under the impression this bias was still very real and not due to any questions of integrity, but more a question of academic incest.

Basically, by exposing yourself to only one institution, you may be exposing yourself to favoritism for one set of ideas, one wing of dogma, one standard of information, when in reality, those ideas can and should be frequently challenged. By only working with one institution, it's easier to allow your practices, knowledge, and style to become rigid. If you move to a different school, it's easier to maintain flexibility as it will help you learn to work within a completely different system. At least, that's the thinking most people who believe academic incest is a problem (which, admittedly, I believe it can be).

locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Shooting Blanks posted:

I was under the impression this bias was still very real and not due to any questions of integrity, but more a question of academic incest.

Basically, by exposing yourself to only one institution, you may be exposing yourself to favoritism for one set of ideas, one wing of dogma, one standard of information, when in reality, those ideas can and should be frequently challenged. By only working with one institution, it's easier to allow your practices, knowledge, and style to become rigid. If you move to a different school, it's easier to maintain flexibility as it will help you learn to work within a completely different system. At least, that's the thinking most people who believe academic incest is a problem (which, admittedly, I believe it can be).

You're right, academic incest is a better term than integrity. I would say it's less of an issue with regards to professional schools than other types of schooling only because in business school (even at the grad level) you are one of hundreds usually and have little opportunity to sort of get caught up in the loop of academic incest. Can it happen? Sure. Only that it's less likely due to the nature of the topics and size of these programs over say, an MFA or PhD in Chemistry, were programs tend to be smaller in number of students, have more 1 on 1 with instructors, last longer than 2 years, have higher turnover in faculty, nature of the material (more subjective/theoretical), etc.

Triple Tech
Jul 28, 2006

So what, are you quitting to join Homo Explosion?
What can you tell me about how an MBA relates to the typical engineer's mindset?

I feel like my biggest weakness in business and the workplace is that I'm too engineery with how I think. I'm very pragmatic and technical, but I feel that's a strength. And yet I'm recognizing that life isn't a meritocracy, so I'm missing some part of the equation. Will the exposure given by an MBA be the magic bullet I'm looking for?

It's a toss-up between that and a Software Engineering degree. I have no desire to be "numba one", but I do want to move up the food chain and definitely be "numba two" or number one when he's not around.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Triple Tech posted:

What can you tell me about how an MBA relates to the typical engineer's mindset?

I feel like my biggest weakness in business and the workplace is that I'm too engineery with how I think. I'm very pragmatic and technical, but I feel that's a strength. And yet I'm recognizing that life isn't a meritocracy, so I'm missing some part of the equation. Will the exposure given by an MBA be the magic bullet I'm looking for?

It's a toss-up between that and a Software Engineering degree. I have no desire to be "numba one", but I do want to move up the food chain and definitely be "numba two" or number one when he's not around.

The primary benefit of an MBA for an engineer is that it will teach you how the business folks think, and how to talk to them. You can go two ways with it: either go over to the business side and be one of the few folks who isn't lost when talking to engineers, or stay on the engineering side and be one of the few folks who has a good understanding of the way the business works. Either way, it's good for you.

(But as long as you're looking at software engineering degrees, Carnegie Mellon has one you should check out.)

juststraightbangin
Jul 15, 2003
Jeremy Brown is a sweet man :)

Oodles posted:

I am a year out of school, having just graduated with a Masters in Engineering. I am thinking about getting my chartership first (another 3 years) then hitting up my MBA.

I am in the UK, so do you know of any good schools over here for MBA, rather than just London Business School?

As said already, Oxbridge is awesome.

However, Judge (Cam) requires (REQUIRES) 3 years of work experience before they give a poo poo about you

And Oxford suggests (practically requires) the same.

So keep that in mind.

5th Disciple
Mar 14, 2005
I know this is a pretty open ended questions but which schools' environment is the best for networking, where the student populace are driven towards a culture of entrepreneurship rather than ibankers or executives trying to climb the corporate ladder.

I guess it also depends on what school has the most international students, many coming from overseas being groomed to take over their family business' back home.

Kn02
Aug 2, 2003
So far my MBA experience has been mainly learning how to use time management. The course material can be challenging, but trying to write a 50+ page paper while working full time has been a learning experience. I will graduate in the spring and look forward to focusing on work and family alone.

Since sustainability might be the next hot industry many schools are heading in that direction. Just another point for anyone concerned they will have to work for a bank or something else they are not interested in.

There is a ranking for those schools:
http://www.beyondgreypinstripes.org/index.cfm

Oodles
Oct 31, 2005

jsb posted:

As said already, Oxbridge is awesome.

However, Judge (Cam) requires (REQUIRES) 3 years of work experience before they give a poo poo about you

And Oxford suggests (practically requires) the same.

So keep that in mind.

Yea, thats what I am thinking anyway. Looking to have about 4ish years, to allow me to get my Chartered Engineer.

quote:

What can you tell me about how an MBA relates to the typical engineer's mindset?

I feel like my biggest weakness in business and the workplace is that I'm too engineery with how I think. I'm very pragmatic and technical, but I feel that's a strength. And yet I'm recognizing that life isn't a meritocracy, so I'm missing some part of the equation. Will the exposure given by an MBA be the magic bullet I'm looking for?

I want to do a MBA just so it can get me out of being an Engineer, dont really want to be 40 and chugging away as a Senior Engineer - want to get me some projects on the go!

Budget Dracula
Jun 6, 2007

In my first MBA class we had a scavenger hunt in Second Life.

locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Budget Dracula posted:

In my first MBA class we had a scavenger hunt in Second Life.

In one of my last classes I did a report on why managers need to be in touch and it included Anshe Chung and an interview transsexual furry hooker in Second Life. The students were all aghast until the professor told them, "I'd rather you hear about this here than after your company made an investment based on your decision that went horribly wrong and you got fired because of it."


Which brings me to another point that I think fresh MBA program entrants or people considering the degree need to remember. In school mistakes are cheap, your teacher will not fire you for a dumb idea or because you don't know. Use the opportunity to explore new ground rather than stick with what you know. The whole point is you're there to learn. No one gives a poo poo if you got a 3.5 or a 4.0 6 months after you graduate, but they will care if you didn't bother to learn some marketing basics, even if you work in finance.

Smilin Joe Fission
Jan 24, 2007
I've heard it said that the main advantage of getting an MBA isn't the actual knowledge you gain through taking the classes, but rather the network of contacts and friends you meet who will presumably help you down the road in your career.

I've been thinking about getting an MBA as a step toward someday starting my own company, so I'm not as interested in the piece of paper or the network of contacts. I'd rather just keep working my current job and studying independently if possible.

From the standpoint of someone purely interested in gaining the knowledge, could I realistically learn all the same things as someone with an MBA just by buying some textbooks online and studying them at my own pace? I know some schools have a good number of lecture videos online, as well as the syllabus and class assignments. Is this a reasonable alternative to actually going to business school?

Arzy
Apr 17, 2003

You are the Dragonborn, Ride forth to your Destiny
Graduated from Chicago GSB in 2007 if anyone has questions about that particular school

juststraightbangin
Jul 15, 2003
Jeremy Brown is a sweet man :)

Arzy posted:

Graduated from Chicago GSB in 2007 if anyone has questions about that particular school

Hows your first year out been? To what extent do you credit the school for this?

locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Smilin Joe Fission posted:

I've heard it said that the main advantage of getting an MBA isn't the actual knowledge you gain through taking the classes, but rather the network of contacts and friends you meet who will presumably help you down the road in your career.

I've been thinking about getting an MBA as a step toward someday starting my own company, so I'm not as interested in the piece of paper or the network of contacts. I'd rather just keep working my current job and studying independently if possible.

From the standpoint of someone purely interested in gaining the knowledge, could I realistically learn all the same things as someone with an MBA just by buying some textbooks online and studying them at my own pace? I know some schools have a good number of lecture videos online, as well as the syllabus and class assignments. Is this a reasonable alternative to actually going to business school?

I think there is some sort of notion going around regarding the "n word" that may be misleading. I hear a lot about networking from people, and while the old adage of "who you know" is still true in many regards, getting an MBA doesn't admit you to some secret club of magical members like you see in the movies. The days of the "old boys club" where it's a bunch of guys sitting around smoking cigars in some wood paneled room are over, and there really isn't anything even remotely close to that any more. Sure, some schools have better alumni networks than others, but that will only take you so far. When you consider larger programs like Harvard or Wharton graduates like 900 students a year, it becomes clear that it's difficult to really build a really strong network in those 2 years amongst your classmates. Instead, knots and cliques may form, but you can probably get the same result from joining a country club or whatever.

In theory you could read all the books and learn the same thing you would in an MBA program, but there are a few things you would miss out on. Firstly, paying all that money and setting aside time to go to school pretty much forces you to focus on your school. It's easy to get distracted during study, and doubly so if you're not paying all that money to be in school in the first place. Second, the lectures and speeches offer a great deal more than the books. In fact, I have books I bought that I never read for classes. The teachers are the real drivers for education in the programs, and the books are a secondary source at best. Thirdly, having that degree is proof that you actually did it. I know it sounds trite, but that rubber stamp means a lot when dealing with employers, customers, associates, etc.

In short, there is really no way to accurately recreate an MBA program by yourself. There is a reason they exist and are in such demand.

xdimitrix
Nov 21, 2003
D.B. Cooper
This is an unusual question, but what are post MBA prospects like for people wanting to work 40 hour weeks (in investments no less)?

I'm currently working in asset management clocking 40 hours a week. If I don't gently caress up I'll earn my CFA charter in another 2.5 years. I have absolutely no desire to ever work much more than 40 hours a week, regardless of how much potential pay/jobs/promotions I give up. It seems like this will limit me to small RIAs or wealth management companies/bank departments.

Given my constraints, it doesn't seem like the extra money I'd make with an MBA would justify the costs to get it.

Arzy
Apr 17, 2003

You are the Dragonborn, Ride forth to your Destiny

jsb posted:

Hows your first year out been? To what extent do you credit the school for this?

This about sums up what you get from an elite MBA

60% network
20& name of school on your resume
20% knowledge gained from study

I fear I may have top ticked the market in terms of MBA comp coming out of school. Wall St will be a mess for years to come and MBA salaries are going to plummet from that that lack of demand now. On the flipside, I can see MBA attendance SOARING as people will try to get out of the way for 2yrs and hopefully come back to a steadier market

To answer your question, I credit my school for the 80% that matters (and that's not the knowledge, believe me. You learn how to do a job on the job)

appleseeder
Jul 19, 2008

by Fragmaster

Arzy posted:

This about sums up what you get from an elite MBA

60% network
20& name of school on your resume
20% knowledge gained from study

I fear I may have top ticked the market in terms of MBA comp coming out of school. Wall St will be a mess for years to come and MBA salaries are going to plummet from that that lack of demand now. On the flipside, I can see MBA attendance SOARING as people will try to get out of the way for 2yrs and hopefully come back to a steadier market

To answer your question, I credit my school for the 80% that matters (and that's not the knowledge, believe me. You learn how to do a job on the job)

Arzy did you go from the military to MBA or is that just an avatar? What are the prospects before and after for military officers, with regards to an MBA? Is it easier to get in, harder to get jobs after because no "experience"?

locdogg
Nov 16, 2000

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

appleseeder posted:

Arzy did you go from the military to MBA or is that just an avatar? What are the prospects before and after for military officers, with regards to an MBA? Is it easier to get in, harder to get jobs after because no "experience"?

I can tell you that in my class we had a West Point guy, a few regular Army officers, and a naval officer. All of them were really sharp and they seemed to have no problems due to "experience" since I would imagine that leading people in literally life threatening situations tends to be regarded as a pretty good indicator of leadership potential. Of course not all officers are good MBA candidates, but from what I saw, it wasn't a hindrance as far as post-MBA opportunities as they all got good jobs after graduation.

KingMorse
Apr 25, 2004

badass in disguise
I think the OP's point of what an MBA *isn't* is important.

I know, on a personal level, a decent number of people with net worth > $10M. None of them have MBAs.

I know and am acquainted with several people with net worths in the $50M to $250M range. None of them have MBAs.

I live in the same town with (and 'know' on a peripheral level in the sense that I've met them and know some of their family) a couple folks that are pretty loving high on the Forbes list. None of them have MBAs.


My intention isn't to make the point that MBAs have zero value, but at the same time I feel like speaking up and saying that they probably don't have the worth that a lot of people put on them and I'm tired of people perpetuating the bullshit lie that 'MBA = business success'. If you're looking to go become a corporate cog and rise a little further than the other guy, sure. That two extra years in school will probably result in a promotion or two; you just might escape CubicleLand and and get one of those offices along the wall.

But if you're looking to be a 'baller'? There are a lot more factors at play here. One is the fact that most hyper-successful people are entrepreneurs. They make money with their native smarts and experience running a business pertaining to something they know about. Expecting an MBA to substitute for real-life experience is futile. Better to spend two years real world actually running a business; it will buy you way more benefit.

Another is that MBAs are a dime-a-dozen in the real world. I'm serious. It's almost to the point where if you do go decide to become a corporate cog you're practically expected to have one. There are two ways to look at this. One says, "Well I've got to get an MBA because it's practically expected and I won't get anywhere without it." The other says, "VP of WhateverTheFuck is for chumps. You want to be a baller? Quit working for one."

To those who are in MBA programs, no offense. I have friends who would rather be immersed in corporate culture than trying to go big on their own and you know, whatever makes you happy. Just don't go trying to convince people that their chances of major-league success in life with an MBA are significantly better than without.

KingMorse fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Oct 10, 2008

Omits-Bagels
Feb 13, 2001

KingMorse posted:

stuff

A lot of people don't want to start their own business and It takes a special person to start up a successful company. Most self-made millionaires are workaholics and a lot of people can't/don't want to live like that. These people who make it big probably don't even need a college education.

Also, I don't think the title of the post was meant to be taken literally.

Getting an MBA is probably the best way to get a high paying career where you'll probably be able to make $200k+ a year. That may not be as good as making millions but you're still making more money than 99% of the world population.

On a side note, what do all your multimillion dollar friends do and how did they get there?

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KingMorse
Apr 25, 2004

badass in disguise
So I reread my post from last night and I did sound pretty negative. My apologies, extraneous education is kind of a soapbox of mine.

To resummarize my comments: MBAs have value and probably improve peoples' lives, but they shouldn't be mistaken as the sole qualification or route to success. Hopefully that is a little more fair than my words from last night.

To answer your question about my 'friends' (I hope I was clear, some I know well and would consider friends, but others are mere acquaintances), most of them have made their money in real estate and/or construction. As a proportion, I would say 80% or so. The others own other types of businesses. As an aside, the part of the country I'm from doesn't have a lot of 'old money' or people who got it through inheritance. The vast majority of successful folks around here are self-made.

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