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kimbo305 posted:Can someone explain Subaru's priorities with racing programs? A lot of why the STI's are being beaten by the Mitsu's come to two things 1) Development The EVO platform is much more developed with the older EVO's still in use. But then again,t eh older EVO's were still in the main a better car in PWRC form. BUT, the thing is, even if the new STI's are "new", they still should have plenty of tried and true hardware. So what gives? 2) Platform. As much as loving retards like to bang on about Subaru wanting a hatch for rallying for performance reasons and the new suspension blah bla blah, those who spruke that don't know a loving thing. The hatch was pure and simple marketing. A hatch has it's own problems with weight distribution and COG. The other big issue is that the rear suspenion, which makes for a better ride is not suited for rallying. As much as the same retards bang on about struts being worthless, the simple fact is stuts are EXCATLY what works in rallying. Yoo need suspension travel. You need the rear camber to walk about to allow weight shift to really come to the fore. There is thence a real fundamental issue under the STI's skin that will take a lot of thinking to solve. When i was in Finland, I really noticed that the EVO runners had one solution for suspension design and it worked. The STI runners were all quite different with springs, shocks and suspension rates. It seems they are having some problems working out what to do to get the rear to work. The problem is, there is no time. The EVO X is looking like a right weapon. A few of them are starting to appear and they are instantly fast out of the box. It being a sedan with a suspension that suits rallying means I would expect the EVO X to be the car to have in PWRC next year. As much as we are Subaru fans here, we all have to admit the EVO X really stole a march on the STI. It's just plain better, full stop.
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Oct 4, 2008 03:51
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Cat Terrist posted:A lot of why the STI's are being beaten by the Mitsu's come to two things I think Subaru should make a new, smaller than the Impreza, 2 door sports car to compete in WRC and so that I can buy one.
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Oct 4, 2008 06:46
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funkyboogaloo posted:I think Subaru should make a new, smaller than the Impreza, 2 door sports car to compete in WRC and so that I can buy one. Apparently they are up to something with Toyota along these lines. Supposed to be RWD instead of AWD too.
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Oct 4, 2008 07:00
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funkyboogaloo posted:I think Subaru should make a new, smaller than the Impreza, 2 door sports car They are actually. Subaru is developing a small coupe that will also be used by Toyota as a modern version of the AE86. The Toyota will probably be RWD, but the Subaru will probably have AWD as per usual. They are shooting for a low pricetag around $20k too. Won't be out for a while though.
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Oct 4, 2008 07:01
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I apply for a promotion that everyone knows I'm going to get (they're even advertising my job before I've applied for the new one) on Monday, should be in that position by the following week. After 1 month, if the person I replace decides he's happy in his new position I am free to buy a new car, woot! 2008/2009 Subaru Impreza, here I come. I'd go with a WRX but they're $46,000ca after tax and financing, unless I find one with <10,000km for $34,000 or less
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Oct 4, 2008 07:33
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I may be looking to buy a used subaru next month. It'll probably be ~'99-04 and my budget is $10k. Most of my options have between 75-100,000 miles. What sort of things should be happening at this point as far as maintenance goes? Anything I should look out for? Whatever I buy will have a manual trans and possibly a turbo.
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Oct 4, 2008 07:59
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angryhampster posted:I may be looking to buy a used subaru next month. It'll probably be ~'99-04 and my budget is $10k. Most of my options have between 75-100,000 miles. What sort of things should be happening at this point as far as maintenance goes? Anything I should look out for? Whatever I buy will have a manual trans and possibly a turbo. 105k is the timing belt for most models I believe. I got an alignment on my '99 Forester and it seems to have fallen out of alignment again. Is this like my old Volvo where it's caused by worn out suspension bushings of some kind?
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Oct 4, 2008 09:40
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angryhampster posted:I may be looking to buy a used subaru next month. It'll probably be ~'99-04 and my budget is $10k. Most of my options have between 75-100,000 miles. What sort of things should be happening at this point as far as maintenance goes? Anything I should look out for? Whatever I buy will have a manual trans and possibly a turbo. I am in the same boat and most of the ones listed around here have over 100-125k miles on them and still go for $10k. Its hard to pull the trigger a car with that many miles for 10K.. I think most of this fear comes from my saturn that is falling apart at 125k miles, loving valve body.
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Oct 4, 2008 12:56
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evilnissan posted:I am in the same boat and most of the ones listed around here have over 100-125k miles on them and still go for $10k. Its hard to pull the trigger a car with that many miles for 10K.. Keep looking, I picked up my 02 Impreza for 6.3k Canadian a month or two ago with 90k miles. Its harder to find deals on Subaru's because most people seem to drive them into the ground but they're out there.
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Oct 4, 2008 16:30
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Aforementioned turbo Diamond Gray Metallic with 6-speed, checking in. Nothing but AP with dyno-tune (and a tiny trunk lip and chin spoiler) at the moment. Exhaust or new wheels/tires is up next, haven't decided which. Winter shoes are on in this pic. 
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Oct 4, 2008 16:40
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Go for exhaust. I love my Megan single tips, although they are a little large, they sound great.
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Oct 4, 2008 16:48
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That's likely what I'll do, as the sound of my STi is now about the only thing I miss, after the tune. Where'd you get yours, and how much did they run you? Also, install them yourself?
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Oct 4, 2008 16:55
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 It's drat near stock, although it really needs to let the turbo spool more freely. I'd like the power to come on more smoothly and faster. I guess that's what happens when my first car was a torquey 2.4 four and the second weighed nothing. It's got the STI muffler so it sounds much nicer and a kartboy short shifter. I've added a 10" subwoofer in a truck box and made an aux in for the pioneer head unit. I want to do an uppipe and a downpipe with a tune but I have another project at the moment. I had to spend 1100 on a new door because someone backed into it at a party 
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Oct 4, 2008 17:22
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Krimzen posted:They are actually. Subaru is developing a small coupe that will also be used by Toyota as a modern version of the AE86. The Toyota will probably be RWD, but the Subaru will probably have AWD as per usual. They are shooting for a low pricetag around $20k too. Won't be out for a while though. Yeah I've heard about this, but I haven't heard anything about it being their new WRC platform. The Impreza is just too big now I think, not engineered specifically for the WRC like the previous generations of Impreza.
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Oct 4, 2008 17:22
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funkyboogaloo posted:Yeah I've heard about this, but I haven't heard anything about it being their new WRC platform. The Impreza is just too big now I think, not engineered specifically for the WRC like the previous generations of Impreza. 2008: Length: 173.8 in. Width: 68.5 in. Height: 58.1 in. Wheel Base: 103.1 in. Curb Weight: 3142 lbs. 2007: Length: 175.8 in. Width: 66.7 in. Height: 58.5 in. Wheel Base: 99.4 in. Curb Weight: 3252 lbs. Wrar fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Oct 4, 2008 |
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Oct 4, 2008 17:23
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angryhampster posted:I may be looking to buy a used subaru next month. It'll probably be ~'99-04 and my budget is $10k. Most of my options have between 75-100,000 miles. What sort of things should be happening at this point as far as maintenance goes? Anything I should look out for? Whatever I buy will have a manual trans and possibly a turbo. And adding on to this question, how many KM on an Impreza/Forester would be too much to consider buying it at all? Though I know Subarus are generally reliable, I really doubt they're up to Lexus levels (where I'd consider buying a 20 year old with 200k km on it just because it's probably got 300k left). I would only intend on daily driving it for about 3 years, when I hope to be earning enough for a new car. For example, today I'll be taking a look at an 03 WRX with 153k km (95k miles) on it. Dealer wants $11k CDN, and it's one of two WRXes in my area in my price range (the other is an 02 with 118k miles for $9.8k). Of course I could take a step down to the TS/RSes but I really wanted the turbo.
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Oct 4, 2008 17:26
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Wrar posted:The new and 01-07 Imprezas are almost exactly the same size. According to http://www.cars101.com/impreza.html 2009 WRX 5 door hatch- Curb weight- 3175 Overall length- 173.8" Wheelbase- 103.1" Width- 68.5" Height (minus rack)- 58.1" 2006 WRX- Curb weight- 3192 Overall length- 175.8" Wheelbase- 99.4" Width- 68.5" Height- 56.7" Durr.. so they are about the same size. Looks like the biggest difference in size is the wheelbase, but I don't know if its better to have a large wheel base for rallying, or a shorter one. Anyways, I just want to see Subaru tear it up in the WRC again
funkyboogaloo fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Oct 4, 2008 |
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Oct 4, 2008 17:39
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Shorter is an advantage. See Puegot 307.
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Oct 4, 2008 17:41
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Wrar posted:Shorter is an advantage. See Puegot 307. That's what I thought. I dunno just looking at the 2009 WRC car vs say a 1998 or 2006 car it looks BIG.
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Oct 4, 2008 17:43
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Fantastipotamus posted:That's likely what I'll do, as the sound of my STi is now about the only thing I miss, after the tune. Where'd you get yours, and how much did they run you? Also, install them yourself? Got it from Boostjunkie on LGT. he's been really hit or miss, which was aggravating, but I am fairly happy with the transaction/cost. $675 shipped I think it was + 3% paypal (if you so choose). Yeah, I had a friend help out. I don't know about the previous year models, but we had to drill out the downpipe side for the bolt holes. the spring/bolts are skinny on that side and the replacement bolts didn't fit (and we broke the drat spring bolts taking them off the stocker). It looks like one side is gapped a little at the connection, but I don't hear any leaks. Also, I was rubbing against the heat shield underneath behind the cat, but a little tweaking with a pry bar and all is right with the world. Minor issues, IMO, and the sound is worth it. I don't have to crank my stereo while cruising and it sounds great to me.
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Oct 4, 2008 18:43
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funkyboogaloo posted:That's what I thought. I dunno just looking at the 2009 WRC car vs say a 1998 or 2006 car it looks BIG. Well, you want suspension travel which means long control arms, exacerbated by the drivetrain width on transverse 4wd cars, and large track width for stability in corners. DJ Commie fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Oct 4, 2008 |
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Oct 4, 2008 19:14
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Cat Terrist posted:
You're going to have to explain to us loving retards why the Citroen C4 does so poorly in WRC and why the Ford Foci hatchback seems to be doing pretty terribly in WRC where oddly enough Mitsubishi doesn't even compete anymore. For the STI being a new car and platform it's doing pretty well in WRC. It's doing quite well in Pro Rally in the US.
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Oct 4, 2008 20:49
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Another question. I'm getting close to timing belt time and I'd like to make a weekend of it. I'm also going to replace the coolant and throw a bottle of Subaru Conditioner in as I'm losing tiny amounts of coolant here and there and the coolant is well overdue according to the previous owners records. My plan so far is to take the radiator out to make it easier to work and then replace the timing belt and tensioner. Anything else I should do while I've got the rad out and timing belt cover off? Any tips to make the whole operation easier? Unfortunately I only have a weekend to do it so I can't really get into some serious engine disassembly but I'd like to replace whatever should probably be replaced along with the timing belt.
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Oct 4, 2008 22:45
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I want a Subaru so bad and this thread isn't helping. I saw one on a local cl and wanted some opinions. Its a 98 Legacy Outback with 125k miles on it. It comes with two sets of rims and three sets of tires. These are the repairs done Timing Belt replaced 5/2007 Water Pump replaced 5/2007 A/C Belt replaced 5/2007 Front brakes pads and rotors 5/2007 Head Gasket replaced 11/2007 (warranted by shop) All valve stems replaced 11/2007 Clutch replaced 4/2008 Battery replaced 6/2008 And this is the work that needs to be done Front O2 Sensor, Left Front Wheel Bearing, Left Front Axle needs some work (tear in the rubber boot which is allowing the grease to leak out), Left Rear Seat Belt needs replacing They're asking 4500. Besides what is listed, are there any upcoming repairs that will be needed? It seems like the major stuff has been covered in the last year. How much will what they have listed cost to repair? Is this a decent deal? Anything I should ask them about?
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Oct 4, 2008 23:47
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Well, by "axle work" I am pretty sure they mean replacement. But that's ok, my cv joint boots went out at about 110k, and not too far from each other as I recall. You should plan on replacing both of them. I don't think you can fix a cv joint. Once the boot is torn, there's going to be dirt in there. edit: This was on a 95 Subaru impreza outback sport...wagon. Who names these drat things?
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Oct 5, 2008 00:01
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grzydj posted:You're going to have to explain to us loving retards why the Citroen C4 does so poorly in WRC and why the Ford Foci hatchback seems to be doing pretty terribly in WRC where oddly enough Mitsubishi doesn't even compete anymore. Maybe because the point that goes over your head over and over again is that the hatch was always a marketing decision and that a hatch HAS no real advantage. None. Mitsubishi dont compete because they didnt give a team money. They kinda dont have any to give to WRC. Subaru didnt do as well with the sedan because of two reasons... 1) Cubic cash. If you decided to take a trip to Europe and scan the service parks, you will notice the sheer size difference and hence budgets Citoren and Ford has over Subaru, not to mention Ford basically have 4 teams they use for development, Citroen 3. Subaru? 1. 2) Awful design. Prodrive designed the 05 based on sports sedans and not a rally car. Whoops, that will be three years down the toilet until they worked it out. The 08 is the first car properly designed. On that awful design, the boxer motor may be good in a road car, but in WRC where you can do freaky engine positioning, the boxer is too far forward. Now in countries that have more money and teams that know a great deal more about rallying than the USA, the EVO IS the better car. And so far the new STI is not able to beat the old EVO's (looking rather doubtful too, given in Finland how many Mitsu's were beating the first Subaru until the drivers had brain fade), while Mitsubishi runners have the new EVO X coming.
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Oct 5, 2008 07:57
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8ender posted:Another question. I'm getting close to timing belt time and I'd like to make a weekend of it. I'm also going to replace the coolant and throw a bottle of Subaru Conditioner in as I'm losing tiny amounts of coolant here and there and the coolant is well overdue according to the previous owners records. With the timing belt you should replace the tensioner, all the idlers, the water pump, thermostat, and radiator cap. Use OEM parts. You'll also need a gasket for the thermostat and water pump since they don't come with them for some reason. You should probably pick up some new radiator hoses, accessory belts, and replacing the front oil seals on the cams and crank is also an option. Of course, if they didn't leak before and you put them in crooked or mar up the sealing surface, then they will leak. You also could get new seals for the timing covers. I don't like the coolant conditioner. It's just that stop leak crap that's supposedly going to keep headgaskets from blowing. All it really does is clog radiator passages. If your leak is not coming from a hose somewhere or the radiator then I guess try it out. In other news, here are our sema cars:  Click here for the full 1280x960 image. One still needs a bit of work. jamal fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Oct 6, 2008 |
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Oct 5, 2008 09:19
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Cat Terrist posted:Maybe because the point that goes over your head over and over again is that the hatch was always a marketing decision and that a hatch HAS no real advantage. None. Hopefully this is the last derail: Tell me more about this freaky engine positioning with the power of words and pictures please.
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Oct 5, 2008 10:04
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Fords have the motor tilted into the dashboard, but Subarus actually have all the gears and center diff behind the front wheels.
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Oct 5, 2008 10:10
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Eh..anyway Picked up an accessport the other day and flashed to stage 1. At the second, I only have a catback exhaust. The improvements were immediately noticeable. Smoother power all the way through. No more putputputvrooom feeling. Now to pick up a downpipe off someone and I'll be set for a while. At least until I can afford a new suspension with tires and all that jazz. 2007 WRX by the way.
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Oct 5, 2008 11:25
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not black enough posted:Hopefully this is the last derail: Tell me more about this freaky engine positioning with the power of words and pictures please. The Ford / Citroen's WRC engines are quite some distance back from the front of the car and a lot lower down than say you would find in a road car. They basically manage to package the entire engine / gearbox to very close or behind the front axle line so there is very little foward of the axle. The Subaru engine is unavoidably more forward. You just cant do WRC engine placement in a road car however - So while a Subaru road car boxer layout is very good for a road car, nice and low with the weight back (and PWRC too), it's got a bit of an issue in WRC. The boxer cant really go that much further back and you cant really move the layout all that much. And enough of that anyway..... There anyone from NZ readign this thread? PM me pls. Especially if you know well the second hand Subaru market is.
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Oct 5, 2008 12:40
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So how are the Subaru automatics? More specifically, the older ones? I may be looking at a 97 Legacy L wagon with an auto. The owner says he's not sure if it's a 2.2 or 2.5, how do you tell? He wants $1500 for it and it has 150k on the clock....Good deal or no? I'm thinking if it's a 2.2 I'll jump on it.
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Oct 5, 2008 14:46
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Wrar posted:It's drat near stock, although it really needs to let the turbo spool more freely. I'd like the power to come on more smoothly and faster. I guess that's what happens when my first car was a torquey 2.4 four and the second weighed nothing. It's got the STI muffler so it sounds much nicer and a kartboy short shifter. I've added a 10" subwoofer in a truck box and made an aux in for the pioneer head unit.   Great to see another Saabaru! Mine is mostly stock so far with only a B&M short shifter and shifter bushings and an Accessport, but I just got an uppipe and downpipe and can't wait to install them. I'm also looking at doing struts/springs and swaybars and want to stiffen it up a bit but not drop it so I don't eat any bumps when I do rallycross. I'm thinking if I get some Forester lowering springs that drop the Forester about 2" that should keep me at about stock ride height. I don't want to go higher because I still want to be able to autocross too. So far I haven't really found anyone that's done this and tried to keep it stock height, they're usually trying to lift it with the forester springs. Any of you Subaru gurus have any ideas or experience with this?
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Oct 5, 2008 16:26
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leica posted:So how are the Subaru automatics? More specifically, the older ones? The 4EAT automatic is exceptionally stout but one the older models you're going to have to look out for torque bind. If the car seems to lurch at low speeds when the steering is at full lock then you'll have to address it. Luckily its not a big deal and can often be taken care of with a fluid change and few other tricks. jamal posted:With the timing belt you should replace the tensioner, all the idlers, the water pump, thermostat, and radiator cap. Use OEM parts. You'll also need a gasket for the thermostat and water pump since they don't come with them for some reason. You should probably pick up some new radiator hoses, accessory belts, and replacing the front oil seals on the cams and crank is also an option. Of course, if they didn't leak before and you put them in crooked or mar up the sealing surface, then they will leak. You also get new seals for the timing covers. Which of these would you consider the most important? I'm not going to have much time and I'll need to use the car for work after the weekend. Right now I'm thinking just the belt, tensioner, and idlers. Its going to be a pain in the rear end to get in there again later but working with this engine layout is foreign to me and everything seems to take a little longer. 8ender fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Oct 5, 2008 |
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Oct 5, 2008 17:18
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Cat Terrist posted:Maybe because the point that goes over your head over and over again is that the hatch was always a marketing decision and that a hatch HAS no real advantage. None. Everything I've ever read why Citroen, Ford and Subaru use hatches to compete in WRC is due to the better weight balance of the hatch design, and the improved structural integrity of having another pillar in the car. It also makes it easier to design a roll cage and carry spare equipment and tires. Why do you think it has anything to do with marketing? I realize the budget limitations that Subaru has compared to the giants they compete against, but they do compete in the US against other Mitsubishi's and do quite well against them. A Mitsubishi did win one race in Rally America this year, and a few competed in X-Games, but fared poorly. The fact is, Mitsubishi probably won't ever enter WRC again, which is a shame because it is the premier rally racing class in the world. You're also going to have to explain this brain fade phenomenon that these Finnish drivers experienced, and how other countries know a great deal more about rallying than the USA because there a whole bunch of holes in your incomprehensible explanation about hatchbacks competing in WRC.
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Oct 5, 2008 18:50
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8ender posted:
Here's the front of an SOHC motor without the timing covers. The water pump is the pulley right next to the toothed idler on the bottom right. It doesn't take more than an extra few minutes to change once you're in there.  Here's a dohc. Everything is in the same place; there are just extra cams. This one also has the hydraulic tensioner instead of the older spring loaded one. without water pump  with water pump  There's actually plenty of room to work on all this with the radiator out. If you'd like a more detailed description on how to change one I can write it.
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Oct 5, 2008 20:28
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jamal posted:There's actually plenty of room to work on all this with the radiator out. If you'd like a more detailed description on how to change one I can write it. If you didn't mind I'd love to hear it. I'm actually pretty pumped the timing belt is so easy to get to on these engines. Other cars I've owned the timing belt has been a nightmare to get to.
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Oct 5, 2008 21:01
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Your 02 is SOHC, which makes changing the belt even easier. Getting everything lined up on a dohc is a little trickier. Start by draining the coolant, unplugging the radiator fans, and taking off the accessory belts and a/c belt tensioner. Then remove the radiator. You can do all of that with a screwdriver and 12 mm socket wrench. Once the radiator is off you have to remove the crank pulley. It's a 22mm bolt and you will need a long breaker bar and some way to stop the motor from turning. Generally the car in gear and on the ground with the brake set will do it, or if you have an automatic you can jam something through the access hole on the bellhousing to wedge up against the torque convertor. You can do that with the flywheel on a 5-speed too. With the crank pulley off remove the timing covers. Keep track of all the little bolts. Then put the crank pulley bolt back in and rotate the motor to TDC. There is a hash mark on the crank and cam pulleys that will line up with a mark on the oil pump near the cam sensor and marks on the top of the rear timing covers. All the hash marks should be pointing up. Then remove the red idler pulley, tensioner, and timing belt. Then the rest of the idlers, and the water pump. You should probably clean off the front of the motor at this point. The water pump is the first thing you'll want to put on and the tensioner is the last. put in the new thermostat and transfer the housing over from the old pump. The little hole should be at the top. It's a little tricky to get the water pump bolts and gasket to line up. I generally get the top two started and then you can wiggle it around to get the rest. Once it's in there you'll want to tighten in a circular pattern. I believe the spec is 7 lb-ft on the first pass and 11 on the second, so be sure not to over-tighten things. Also make sure you have not confused the six water pump bolts with the longer timing cover bolts. Once the water pump is on you'll want to install some of the idlers so it looks like this: On dohc cars I generally leave the tensioner and the red idler off. The replacement for your red idler should be a black one. The black on has two bearings in it and Subaru just uses that now. You can probably install the tensioner (but don't pull the pin of course) before the belt. Here's a diagram of all the idlers and the torque specs for everything: http://jamalb.net/FSM/MSA5TCD99L30.pdf With most of the idlers in place, you can install the belt. Looking at the front of the car it rotates clockwise and you should be able to read the belt. The dotted line goes over the crank sprocket. You want to make sure to line it up with the hash mark and not the arrow on the front. In this picture the timing belt is installed wrong:  Then you'll want to do the cam sprocket on your left. It helps to have someone hold it in place with a wrench while you do the other side. The lines on the belt should match the marks on the gears and the notch in the timing cover. Once you have the belt and all the idlers on, rotate the engine a few times before you pull the tensioner pin, and make sure the marks on the gears and timing cover all line up. The marks on the belt will not line up again for something like 50 rotations so don't worry about that. Just make sure all the hash marks on the gears line up before you pull the pin. Putting everything back together is pretty simple. It's really easy to break off the thread inserts on the timing covers if you over tighten them so be careful with that.
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Oct 5, 2008 21:50
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jamal posted:or if you have an automatic you can jam something through the access hole on the bellhousing to wedge up against the torque convertor. You can do that with the flywheel on a 5-speed too. This is fantastic thanks. One question though. I have an automatic. Where would I find this access hole?
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Oct 6, 2008 02:33
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grzydj posted:You're also going to have to explain this brain fade phenomenon that these Finnish drivers experienced I think it's because they dropped the ball in the later stages when they were looking fantastic earlier. Lazor posted:Holy crap they let you stand close to the course.
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Oct 6, 2008 03:48
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