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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Cat Terrist posted:

That's exactly what flat shift is - wether or not you use the clutch, as long as you keep your foot on the gas, that's flat shift. Not using a clutch is optional.

I think a flat shift is one where the engine and output shaft RPMs are still rising fast (because your foot is oo the floor) as you try to mate the selector gear into the synchros.

A no-lift shift is one where you can pin the gas but the ECU will still let the engine RPMs fall to an approriate RPM and hold for you by the time you get the selector gear into the synchros.

This latter shift shouldn't be any worse on the car than a well-timed human shift. e: Timing or mechanically, it doesn't strike me as much different from the automated rev-matching downshifts in the 370Z, which no one has reported oddities with.

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Nov 7, 2011

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Slow is Fast posted:

I just want to buy one, pull the motor as a spare for mine, and dump a wrecked wrx I have access to into the GC shell. Is that too much to ask :|

Yes. I was really really tempted to get that GC wagon STi swap. If it were a coupe, I'd done it a long time ago. That's how cool CG coupes look.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
I had a straight cut 4.50 final drive gear in my Focus rally car, which I ended up daily driving for 5 months. It was so loud on the highway that I had to put the headphones on to keep from going deaf. Though, I'm sure half of that was having no interior.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

THE BLACK NINJA posted:

I just honestly don't know how you sit in a Subaru sales office and tell me you built a V12 BRZ online.

You should have whipped out a sheet of paper and drawn up a contract for him to buy you a BRZ if he could go back to his computer and successfully order a V12 one for you.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

jamal posted:

GR2s are essentially an oem replacement but some people say they are slightly stiffer than oem.

Just curious -- you guys have a shock dyno at the shop, right? Why not just take a few of each and see?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Cream_Filling posted:

Why did Subaru never bring over the Exiga?


I honestly think the people who buy Crosstours and Venzas would find that even uglier.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
e: from that NASIOC thread: hood scoop delete. Lol, is this somehow cheaper/easier than trading/swapping for an NA hood?

jamal posted:

A certain car going around a corner at x lateral gs will transfer y lbs of weight to the outside of the car. It has absolutely gently caress all to do with springs or swaybars or anything suspension related. Let me say that again, and in bold: making your suspension softer or stiffer DOES NOT change the amount of weight transfer.

...

This is because the amount of weight transfer is proportional to the resistance to roll. If the rear suspension is stiffer, the rear suspension will do more work to resist roll, and the rear outside tire will be more heavily loaded.

Maybe I'm confusing some terms here, but these two parts seem to be contradictory. Did you mean degree of rate of weight transfer in the 2nd part?

The phrase "heavily loaded" probably coincides with what some people take to mean weight transfer -- the extra force pushing down on a tire.

quote:

Notice how I said the tire with more load loses grip first? That's because the coefficient of friction of a tire in reality is not proportional to load. If it was, more normal force would equal more grip and chassis dynamics would be exactly the opposite of how they actually are.

In high school physics, cf is constant. If that is roughly the case for rolling rubber on road, then I'd think grip would still be correlated or proportional to load. Take the classic hot hatch scenario. You trail brake into a corner. The front end digs in and gets grip; the rear end tips up and loses grip. Sometimes the inside rear tire even lifts, which would be zero grip. So in this specific case, I don't see how the tire with more load loses grip first.

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Apr 20, 2012

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

jamal posted:

But simply put, when a car is going around a corner, of the outside two tires, the one with the most load will lose traction first.

I dunno -- I just don't see that in my hot hatch trail brake example. If the rear of the car starts to slide out -- did the outside rear tire really momentarily have more load on it than the front? You'd think just before it broke loose, the tire would have been almost tipping forward off the ground.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Cat Terrist posted:

And..... I'll actually answer Jamal's challenge in the next day or two because this poo poo is interesting as hell and what works on paper doesnt work in real life.

Jamal defined weight transfer as the extra force over the outside tires in a steady state turn of a constant radius. I honestly think most of us had a much more handwavy definition, most of which would involve change over time.

That last bit is probably what causes the most problems between track driving and rally driving. Rally surfaces are a lot more varied than asphault tracks, and I wonder if even the most advanced suspension and tire models can adequately model the behavior of a highly deformable, loose material interacting with the tires. As you (CT) discussed way back, picking the right dampers has everything in the world with making the car drive the way you want. And I bet that factor you're selecting for (damping rate or damping curve) figures largely into your mental model of "weight transfer." And thus is at definitional odds with that steady state definition above.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

jamal posted:

the rate and distribution of weight transfer is the important thing.

I totally get that. But I bet, prior to your making the point, 95% of people here (and in AI) would have defined weight transfer as the rate of actual_weight_transfer, which would obviously lead to confusion. And of course the rate does involve shocks and roll bars.

The debate over the best settings for those, of course, must rage on forever.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Cat Terrist posted:

The steady state definition is too simple and if you use it, you will crash. I guarenttee it. You MUST think much more boradly and not use book definitions but actual hard real world results and realize the whole system is extremely complex, it is not a simple clean equation at all.

One of the problems the simple equation has to deal with is left foot braking, a technique EXPLICTLY designed to change the manner of how a car changes it's weight distribution.

Well, I think most suspension engineers are competent enough to model car dynamics as time-dependent systems. Even in the early days of analog computing, engineers knew to model suspensions (per corner, since that's way simpler) as 2nd order systems, implemented with inductor/resistor/capacitor circuits. I'm not gonna argue that the real world might not match up to models, but I think plenty of people here are capable of grasping the complex models that might be involved.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

jamal posted:

now, say I take both those cars out and get on the brakes so they slow down at 0.5g. Both of them are slowing down at the same rate. The suspension on the softer car compresses twice as much. The weight transfer is exactly the same.

If the surface is loose (say, gravel), would the stiffer springs have the effect of more rapidly reacting and pushing into the gravel? That is, from the same pedal action at the brake, you get more bite into the dirt and thus possibly better deceleration. This reaction time is of course dependent on spring constant.

I know the above is dynamic/transient and not measuring a steady state 0.5g deceleration. That situation seems to map more easily to braking down at the end of a long straight on a track.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

jamal posted:

What CT and I are not disagreeing about is how to set up a car (well not completely). It just seems like he is getting the basics completely wrong, declaring that it doesn't work in practice, and doing the opposite. Which is actually right.
Yeah, I think I noticed that earlier -- that he never flat out rejected soft suspension as workable.

jamal posted:

On dirt and gravel you not only have less grip but you have a rough, uneven surface, so the softness is not just about making things happen more slowly in a lower grip sutuation but also keeping the tire in good contact with the ground.
I was taught that on some loose surfaces, you want to punch through the top loose layer and build up a pile of material ahead of the sliding tire, creating friction that way. And to get that kind of bite, I'd imagine you do want to hammer down and get to the harder ground with authority. But deciding where to do that's probably a judgment call, and I don't think you are expected to drive like that on all loose surfaces. In other cases, I totally agree softer is better for keeping traction, though tougher for getting the car to rotate in some ways (I guess now we're straying back to the swaybar debate).

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Are Subaru clutches stiff across the board? I drove an 06 Legacy GT with an ACT Stage 2 clutch, which the owner said was somewhat stiffer than stock. But drat, that was the stiffest clutch I'd ever felt. From memory, it was stiffer than the clutch in my SVT Focus, which every autocross instructor that went into it said was the stiffest they'd felt.

So working backwards, the stock Legacy clutch must be on the stiff side. The owner said WRX clutches were pretty heavy, too.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

BoostCreep posted:

I don't know what "Stage 2" means for a clutch, but single disc ACT clutches are always heavier than stock. The 2600 ACT in my Talon will seriously build up the muscles in your left leg. It's HEAVY. Every time I had to take it in for an alignment I had to drive it onto the machine after painfully watching the goomba "who does this all the time" stall the car repeatedly.

I think stage designations delineate the levels torque the clutch is designed to handle, within a brand line. Never really thought about how any of the clutch design could affect pressure/effort. I had a "stage 4" Clutchmasters clutch in a Focus once and it was super light.

After I got out of the Legacy, I drove my Vette and did the thing where you're afraid you just punched through the floorpan with your foot (could happen with a balsa wood floor).

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Rocketmoose posted:

Does anyone know of somewhere that sells these cars in the Massachusetts and neighboring state area?

They seem to come up reasonably frequently on CL.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Lord Gaga posted:

I thought a turbo sti brz was planned?

Not publicly: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/F43349775373CB07CA257A3D002987B6
But maybe in secret.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
I thought you were the one always championing precision machining.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
If you do the pit-dealers-against-each other routine, you need to do a lot of footwork. But it's worth it. You might want to start out with 4 or 5 dealers, as many dealers will drop out way early in this 'bidding' process.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

THE BLACK NINJA posted:

Pilot Super Sports:  I’ve only had these on for a couple warm days.  First impressions are that they are quieter and more comfortable than I thought they would be.  They also look great, especially from the back (removed my flaps for summer).  They fill out the stock BBS wheels much better than the Dunlops and seem super beefy for a 245.

Do you find them to be grayer in color that other tires?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

THE BLACK NINJA posted:

It's not something I would have noticed, but when I get home I'll compare them to the Contis on our outback. I can say that the sidewall is maybe grayer looking but it might just be what they do to the rubber finish. Both the alpins and the PSS have a very satiny finish that does look "soft" when clean.

I know these are press pics with non-natural lighting, but the way they light up gray is pretty much how mine are:
http://cdn4.leftlanenews.com/photos/content/january2013/thumbnailsnew/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-05_653.jpg
http://cdn4.leftlanenews.com/photos/content/january2013/thumbnailsnew/cd-detroit-chevy-c7-07_1035.jpg

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
We hired one of our interns on for full time. His graduation present from us will be a short shifter for his '10 or '11 WRX. This is the right one, right?:
http://www.flatironstuning.com/p-2000-kartboy-shifter-and-bushing-combos-for-subaru-5-speeds.aspx

quote:

Short Shifter and Bushings for the 05-09 Legacy GT and 2008+ WRX 5-speed

Includes:
- Kartboy Short Shifter for 05-09 Legacy GT and 2008+ WRX 5-speed
- Kartboy 5-speed Shifter Bushings (Front)
- Kartboy Rear Shifter Bushing

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
A week late --

jamal posted:

Hawk's updated line of track pads are also pretty good. Really it just comes down to not using a street pad on the track. Hawk DTC-60 and the ferodo ds3000 are both good choices too. We used CL pads in the race car and I know a couple other people that were really happy with them. They all have a really flat friction curve and high MOTs, so the big difference between them is the cf. The RC5+ is the mild pad that's mean for street tires and can actually be daily driven. It comes in 4-pot and brembo shapes but I don't think you can get it for 2-pot fronts.

I loved the CL RC5+ on the track. It doesn't have a warmup that would prevent daily driving, but it is very squeaky at low speeds and pressure. Doesn't bother me personally, but I imagine it's really annoying to the people around me.

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