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Had to read TC&TC for university and I loved it. It took me a long time to get into, which seems to be the par for China's work. It was very strange, even though I wasn't really enjoying it for a long time, I kept returning to it. It was like I wanted to read it, but I didn't know why, and then suddenly one day I was really enjoying it. I agree with anyone who was saying how Ornicy being a myth was better than if it had been real. I liked it because it was a very subtle twist on the typical detective narrative, where you are repeatedly given evidence that one person did it to the point that you know they must not have done. Ornicy was like that, it knit everything up too easily. I'm currently halfway through PSS and I have a feeling I'm going to like it less and less as it goes on. I may be the only person who loved the opening chapters before the arrival of the moth , and the more horror elements that come into play, the less I seem to be enjoying it. Except of course for The Weaver. The Weaver is horrific. I am trying desperately to burn through PSS so I can read The Scar and Iron Council before Kraken comes out. Also, in regards to Isaac being unlikable, I think he is actually just very well written. I know a lot of people are saying characters are his weak point, but Isaac, to me, seems like a masterpiece. There are plenty of ways China could have made him more likable, multiple points where he could have changed one thing that wouldn't effect the plot but would make him more likable, but he didn't. I think it means you get a more believable character. He doesn't act like someone who is trying to look good/cool when nobody is around. The fact he is overweight, cruel to animals, crude, and violent go with the fact that is a selfish and obsessive man.
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Apr 15, 2010 12:19
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Hedrigall posted:What course was this for? A creative and media writing course. We looked at it as an example of genre bending because it's really hard to work out what it is. Not really fantasy, certainly not sci-fi, but then calling it a detective novel is like calling the X-files a cop show. It's sort of like a horror because of the protagonist and the murders and the threat being there, but the narrative is too stilted to be a horror. It could be a comedy (in the Greek sense) because the protagonist is out of their depth but there is a happy ending. There are political overtones, but it isn't a political thriller because the political groups are barely unveiled.
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Apr 15, 2010 12:32
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Finished PSS and really enjoyed it. I didn't like the middle as much as the beginning or end, and whilst there were several elements that somehow felt slightly out of place for me, The Construct Council being the big one, and the handlingers being the second, I enjoyed it so much that I didn't care. I have the other two Bas-Lag books on the way in the post. I have a presumtion that certain figures in book one are going to play more major roles, or at least re-appear in books two and three. Without giving examples that are too specific, can anyone confirm/deny this without spoiling anything? I'm just sort of hoping that the universe feels tied together between the books I guess.
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Apr 23, 2010 12:39
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Oh I remember I was going to ask if anyone could explain a little bit about the Crisis Engine from PSS. Because, to me, it seemed like the whole thing was a little bit like when people use the term irony wrong. No actually, more like when people describe something as a paradox and it isn't. I figure that China is far cleverer than me and I'm just missing the point, but the scene near the end where they hook up the old dude to the Council and the weaver with the helmets. Apparently this unlocks presumably unlimited energy because the weaver and the council make up two different parts of the psyche which the old dude has, but also it....doesn't. And the crisis engine flips out because something is untrue and true at the same time? Like I said, it's probably me missing the point, or is that right? It just seems a little cheap for Mieville who was very good at all that sort of thing through the rest of the book.
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Apr 27, 2010 13:28
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Okay cool, that all sounds pretty much how I thought it was. I thought there was a paragraph where he explained that the engine was being powered by the paradox of the meeting currents. I swear there was something where he said The Weaver = X, The Council = Y and The old man = Z and like, there was something to do with like, X+Y=Z, but X+Y didn't = Z so the engine flipped out and amplified exponentially. Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, or it was less important than it implied. Oh well. Thanks 
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Apr 27, 2010 23:08
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I'm actually holding a copy of Kraken in my hands right now. I'm ill though and need to sleep but I know I am going to get through this in a matter of days. It's big...good big. Only read the 'prologue' page so far, and already I'm excited.
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May 6, 2010 15:04
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Uk, Hardcover. 481 pages long. Actually, with the size of the text it's probably quite a bit shorter than his other work. Hard to say.
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May 6, 2010 15:45
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I have mixed feelings about a Mieville Space Opera. I really don't like sci-fi in that sort of traditional setting, so part of me is sad he isn't writing I'm more traditionally interested in. That said, if anyone was going to change my opinion on the genre it would be China. On Kraken. If you've read the blurb, this isn't really a spoiler The old man and the young boy mentioned....gently caress me they're good....still only about a quarter into it, but they just do....argh...its amazing. That said, there are some lengths of prose that are, not so much badly written, as strangely written. It is taking me a while to read because of this, but still, the plot and characters are amazing so far.
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May 13, 2010 13:22
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This is why I am so glad I came across China! I was so excited about Kraken and now I have it and I'm already getting excited about his next book! It spurns me on to read Kraken because it's like working towards his next.
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May 19, 2010 16:33
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Just finished Kraken. Took me ages cause it has been a busy month. I loved it. I love the story, the overall arch of the plot, I love the characterisation and character concepts, particularly Goss & Subby, Simon and The Sea and I really like some of the conceptual magical elements like the sentence about Billy being an accidental messiah and how else are they chosen? The language was complex and flowery, but I think it worked. The words kept telling you how grotty and grimy London was, but the language gave it the feeling of a more traditional fantasy setting. Ending - I guessed that Vardy was involved somehow because he was used so much to start with, then vanihsed. I didn't guess the whole Beagle thing, which I liked. Good read. Now to start on The Scar.
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Jun 16, 2010 16:36
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The John Bull posted:Yeah! Literally! I was going to mention this and then thought I'd come across like a nerd, but seriously. I don't even like FF that much, but the idea of them being threatening just makes me think "yeah well, they are dangerous, they can do that 10 Million needles thing or whatever." The illustration on the deviant art page is much better, but I'm still finding it hard.
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Jul 4, 2010 00:59
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They are very different books. It really depends on what it was that you didn't like about PSS. If it was the use of language, you might want to give Kraken a miss because although it is done very differently, the language is still stylised.
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Aug 31, 2010 19:02
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Finished The Scar and really liked it. Strangely though I think I enjoyed PSS more, the stuff that other people found boring (the academic part before it got exciting) were the bits I really liked, and I found The Scar to lack in these compared to PSS. For instance, one of my favorite portions of the book was the very brief description of Coldwine's job translating for the old cray in the opening ten or so pages. Just started Iron Council, and I like the roosters .
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Sep 17, 2010 18:00
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I always pictured him looking like The Bunk.
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Sep 23, 2010 17:09
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I really don't get the hatred for Bellis. She is selfish in her urge to get back home, but why shouldn't she be, I found the whole "one for all and all for one" attitude of Armada to be ridiculously manipultivie brainwashing considering how most of the people ended up there. I guess I just don't understand whyshe should fall on her sword for Armada I see her actions as more desperate than selfish and I actually quite liked how she dealt with most of the situations in the book. Tanner was nice too, but I think the real hero is...I forget his name, but the mosquito man who dies in the submarine thing when the Grindylow attack. that, or Hedrigal. After tearing through PSS and The Scar, I'm finding it hard to get into Iron Council. My schedule has changed significantly, which is part of the problem, but I just can't seem to get through the opening (I presume its sort of a prologue). It starts in media res a lot more than the previous two, any advice on how far in the plot takes a little more shape?
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Oct 28, 2010 12:28
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Deus Ex Manatee posted:Any actors you would want to see portray your favorite characters? I picture Brad Dourif (wormtongue from LOTR) as Silas Fennic for some reason.
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Oct 28, 2010 12:31
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I know this was mentioned pretty far back, but at the time I hadn't read the begining of IC and so I didn't really read much of it, but I take it that in the puppet show that shows what happened to Jack half-a-prayer, we are to presume that the pock-faced figure is Yag? And if so I like to imagine that his miraculous escape is down to finding someone else to teach him to fly! Stupid lying bird bitch, she definitely wanted it.
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Nov 11, 2010 14:23
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Iron Council Spoiler: Just found out the identity of Torro . Mind blown!
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Dec 8, 2010 01:42
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Maybe because it was my first one of his, or maybe just because it appeals to me, but I rank The City and The City higher than anyone else. It is just an example, for me, of a concept novel that works. The entire book is a typical thriller, but revolving around one bizzare concept. The sheer imagination of this one idea, coupled with the way in which it is utilised, makes you actually believe it.
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Dec 9, 2010 15:47
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Those are amazing. Surprised by the relative simplicity of TC&TC one, but they are all amazing.
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Feb 23, 2011 12:30
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Fuinnily enough, I came here to post how I was half-way through my second read through of TC&TC. It is, without a doubt, my favorite work of fiction. There are so many conceptually amazing moments, written with such flare and love that I fail to see how people could dislike it, even though many China fans seem to rank it lowest out of his 'proper' works. Hedrigall, the second time through you are definitely able to appreciate it more. I think the mistake is to think of it as a pulp-noir piece, even though that is how China seems to consider it himself. The mystery is irrelevant really, in fact you are almost set up to know 'whodunnit' by the very concept of the book. I LOVE the fact that the ENTIRE length of the book is spent telling you how there is no third city, but because it is a mystery you can't bring yourself to believe it. ALSO, it wasn't until the second read-through that I realiased that Breach basically is/are Ornicy. The way that Ornicy is explained - a third state between the two cities that disguise themself within both by behaving like the other whilst secretly controlling everything from behind the scenes, is almost identical to how Breach turn out to be. I realise that I am only half way through and it may well be that this point is explored overtly in the latter half of the book, but I don't remember it if it is. Then again that could just be because of how much I was enjoying it.
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Mar 22, 2011 18:49
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Hedrigall posted:
I literally just said "FUYAH!", some hyper-speed version of gently caress Yeah! I have never had an uncontrollable verbal response to something on the internet before. This has made my day, thanks for the heads-up dude!
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Apr 8, 2011 14:34
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GOOD NEWS
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Paragon8 posted:To me TC&TC was more of a commentary on disputed areas like Israel/Palestine or Cyprus - how you can have two very similar cultures that still have a huge disparity between them. China just slammed them together to really emphasise how ridiculous conflict between two fundamentally similar cultures are. Whilst I personally think there is an element of truth to this, Borlu mentions this at one stage in the book himself. I don't have the direct quote, but it's basically the bit where he says he attended a conference. The comparison of Bezel and Ul Quoma to places like East/West Germany and Ireland/EIRE were seen as immensely over simplistic and borderline racist.
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Jul 6, 2011 19:30
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Oh God, how can only knowing the title and number of pages get me so loving psyched?! 
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Aug 18, 2011 15:22
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I think it works slightly better with both character's being the same sex. I think gender and sexuality within fantasy is really hard to get right because of the tropes of the genre, and of the genre's writers and readers. If it's a desperate man lusting after an aloof woman then it comes off as "huh, women! Always forgetting the nice guys ammirite?" It it's a desperate woman lusting after an aloof man then it comes off as "yeah, this is how I would make a fantasy world, turn the tables on them right? That'll show them!" By making both characters the same sex, you kind of avoid that. Like The Rough Beast said, I think the pathetic relationship is supposed to be ridiculous. Judah is aloof and uncaring and a bit of a sociopath, Cutter is desperate and affectionate and a little bit broken. They're both men, they're both capable of doing something most character's in the fictional world could never do Crossing the continent and coming home again.
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Oct 23, 2011 00:33
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The problems your having might be partially based on where you live as well. Part of whats charming about Kraken (and I will defend it forever, even if the protagonist is a 1-dimensional shadow), is the combination of London lexicon and China's usual range. There is one sentence which I fail to remember, possibly when the girl cop is burning old VHS copies of The Sweeney to make ghost police - seriously, how can anyone not like this book, and there are a number of bizzare China-esque word muddled in with cockney slang and seventies London jive. If you live outside the UK, or even outside London, some of what you might be finding confusing, might just be to do with that.
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Jan 20, 2012 15:49
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I enjoyed the first third of Perdido Street Station more than anything else in the Bas-Lag books. I was exactly the same and I glad you said this. I find it really baffling when people get bored of the first third of a Mieville book and then go on to enjoy the rest of it. In my opinion the study of society, and particularly Isaac's academic work, is what made PSS amazing. The horror elements that came later on were awesome, but they were the finishing touches for me. He had me at Universal Field Theory.
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Apr 14, 2012 13:45
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Yeah - it's interesting that people think of PSS as having a 'bad ending' (in terms of outcome rather than quality) because in a way its almost a classic 'good ending' - the bad guy is destroyed by the protagonists, though the gallant hero must pay the ultimate price for his victory. Even Yagharek isn't a bad ending - its just a twist. It is sad that Yag was not the person you thought he was - not sad because he is punished. I think The Scar has the weakest ending by far - not because it is the 'easiest' ending to swallow, but because, like Oasx said it just feels slightly too contrived. I think China could have included half as much exposition and it would have been brilliant - if Uther said "oh well once this happened I saw my chance and made my move and I was lucky" instead of "I was plotting everything out from months and months ago because I knew you could be the one to do this if this incredibly unlikely series of independent events occurred as planned" I think it would have been a much tighter ending. It's still a great book - but I think its more like a fictional travel companion than a novel.
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Jun 15, 2012 13:40
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Finished Railsea tonight. Loved it. The ending felt strangely abrupt for me, but I didn't mind it at all. I loved the ocean-railsea analogies when the pirates make the captain walk the plank and Abacat was easily one of Mieville's best and most interesting female character's. Perhaps I have a stupid sense of humor - but I don't think I've ever laughed as hard at anything in a book as “We’re Going to Get Unbelievably Drunk (in a Pub).”
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Jun 23, 2012 23:35
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Slo-Tek posted:There is a joke there. Mother. Fucker. I bet I missed all kinds of clever things throughout all his books.
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Aug 2, 2012 11:18
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