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Noricae posted:Yes and no. The story was sort of a wash, but he introduced a few neat characters and talked about places (the city full of dead) that weren't mentioned in the world so far, so I found the book to be overall worthwhile. I mostly care about his world and history though (so that Dragon magazine special sounds interesting, and I should track it down). There honestly isn't a lot in that Dragon special that is new or revelatory. I was pretty disappointed when I finally got my hands on a copy and flipped through it. Most of it is just statting Bas-Lag stuff over to D&D.
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May 31, 2009 12:55
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Notahippie posted:I don't think it's as much Mieville copying planescape as the fact that planescape comes out of the whole "new weird" zeitgeist that Mieville comes from too. That mix of steampunk and urban settings and hardboiled tropes with fantasy isn't limited to either planescape or Mieville. But he definitely brings in D&D poo poo in Perdido Street Station - look at the "adventurers" who show up towards the end of the book. There was an issue of some D&D magazine where Mieville basically admitted that he was riffing on your 'typical' D&D adventurers with those guys. There's also some tabletop gaming sourcebook that Mieville's been working on that's based in the Bas Lag universe that's been delayed like a hojillion times. I don't game, but I really want to get my mitts on that book.  And seriously, Ratios and Tendency? Planescape? That's the connection you made?  I'd say more 1800s London. The amount of filth and dirt that he takes care to mention matches it up quite well, as well as the neighborhoods and the way the whole city is constructed. It's not an exact copy, but I think there's more of that than there is Sigil. The way the devils were portrayed are hardly unique (or even original) to Dungeons & Dragons. Dr. Faustus predates D&D by a couple hundred years. I know PSS is a slow read initially (I felt that way at times on my first read) but it really is a great book and I really, really suggest you try and finish it. Especially if it's your first foray into Mieville's Bas-Lag world. The Scar does sorta, kinda reference PSS, but it is fantastic and has far more interesting stuff, although it also starts off a little slow, but I think it compensates by focusing more on the setting and the unique nature of it, as well as throwing some action bits in so it's not all 'blahblahblah-crisisengine-blahblahblah-avionics-blahblahblah-my daddy was a cockroach.' The Devils aside, I don't think there's really a Planescape element to the books. Things are screwed up because of things like Torque, which seems to affect the very fabric of reality, or they're things that exist on different wavelengths. Slake-moths, for example, sustain themselves by eating something that's insubstantial and there needs to be some sort of go-between there in order for them to function. It's not explained and not necessary, I don't think, as it's part of what makes them so horrific. Contrast that with the cactus guys and their crossbows: their weaponry, which is designed specifically to hurt other cactus people, is meant to impress on how dangerous these guys are and how over their heads Isaac and company are if they piss them off: they don't have anything that can hurt these guys. Sorry, I'll stop sperging over one of my favorite books. 
Perdido fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Apr 27, 2010 |
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Apr 27, 2010 13:08
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EDIT: ^^ I swear I saw an interview where Mieville said he has tons of notes on Bas-Lag and he provided some of his own notes to them for that project. I'm in the same boat as you. I just want more Bas-Lag goodness. Hasn't it been delayed by like 2 years or was the initial release date Oct '09 and I'm just misremembering? And thanks on the username. Also, for making this thread  ---- Close, I think it's more the coming together of the utter rationality of the Construct Council with the completely unhinged chaotic nature of the Weaver. You have pure reason mixing together with well, take your pick: insanity, randomness, irrationality. Isaac is quite literally making dreams come true, which is why the slake moths find it so goddamned irresistible. I think he's playing around with the concept of dream logic, where people rationalize bizarre things happening in their dreams no matter how improbable or strange they are. Perdido fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Apr 27, 2010 |
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Apr 27, 2010 14:06
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Pieces of Peace posted:And just out of curiosity, is anyone complaining about the politics not American? England does kind of have a slightly more significant history of actually considering the political position of labo(u)r, and it's really less of "blatant politics!" and more of "he has a different understanding and cultural basis, which you are unfamiliar with" As a Canadian who has a background in studying English lit/history, no, not really, up until Iron Council, where it seemed to be coming on really thick. Rather than having it be part of the work, the political overtones in Iron Council were frustrating...which is interesting, as I have a funny feeling that the whole concept of the train in Iron Council was based off of the TransCanada Railway. Some of the descriptions and such of the railway seemed vaguely familiar, particularly with the colonial overtones. I think there may have been 1 or 2 more direct references inserted in...I remember raising my eyebrow at them. Frankly, I like what he was doing with political/social commentary in PSS/The Scar, not as much with Iron Council. It seems to be a fairly common complaint, too.
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May 4, 2010 08:26
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Hedrigall posted:Every Great Railway story is pretty much the same though. Iron Council could just have easily been based on Cecil Rhodes' attempted railway from Cape Town to Cairo. Rhodes is definitely a Weather Wrightby-like figure too. Now I'm going to have to sit down with Iron Council and find those things that jumped out at me. Maybe I was just reading too much into what was there and there are just some universal similarities to that sort of a story. Good call on Cecil Rhodes/WEather Wrightby, too. Now I'm really thinking I got too wrapped up into associating certain things that I excluded other parallels/possibilities. quote:I hope people complain just as much about the blatant pro-fascist sentiments present in the majority of sci-fi lit. I do. I also have a huge problem with a lot of the fantasy genre as well. And I'm not complaining about the inclusion of socialist sentiments in the books I read or Mieville's decision to do so. I just don't think it wasn't as skillfully woven in as it was in Perdido Street Station or The Scar. Like, in Perdido, you have the Runagate Rampant and the folks involved with that, trying to affect change. It's very pessimistic as these people are basically getting played and can be rounded up by the authorities very easily. But you contrast it to how the city conducts itself, particularly with the fascistic way New Crobozun is run and it's not being done in a flattering way, so you start to appreciate these folks who are involved with things like the Runagate. I mean, this is a political body that cavorts with literal Devils. While you could say that is a rather blatant and over-the-top way of conveying just how scummy these guys are, it comes across as being natural and organic to the story: we've seen how they treat non-humans, how they punish people (Remaking), their affiliations with organized crime and how corrupt and brutal they are to the people they govern. Them dealing with THE DEVIL comes naturally and fits in nicely to the overall story. The fundamental message that I got out of the PSS was twofold: one, there's really no such thing as 'heroes': Isaac and company are going to be unheralded and uncelebrated and, at best, are going to escape capture and at worst, get hunted down and executed for being criminals to the state. Two, that, despite the fact that they're a group of nobodies who are in way over their heads affecting things that are so far beyond their control, they're going about doing it anyways because it's the right thing to do...and it does result in change (even if it's a little bit deus ex machina-ey a la The Weaver.) That's loving great stuff! Armada, on the other hand, comes across much better in the organized socialist commune than the railworkers did in Iron Council, at least for me. Part of it is from necessity: you have these people coming together from a variety of backgrounds, some pressganged, others not and are falling into this better way of life. Remade people or criminals aren't judged or treated as less than equals, they're judged on their own merits and contribute to society and integrate into Armada quite well. Contrast that with the 'NO PAY NO LAY NO PAY NO LAY' crap that comes up in Iron Council and it really didn't jive in the same way with me, although I will say that the way Mieville built it up and wrote it was fine and made sense to the internal story. I just didn't like the way it was written, not that it was included. EDIT: Also, before someone brands me as a woman hatin' goony Goon goon goon, my sole problems weren't with the prostitutes initiating the uprising. It's just the most memorable scene from the book (I lost it while I was in the process of moving so I don't have it handy to look up specific passages, otherwise I'd hold up other examples) of what I didn't enjoy. I did find the bits with Toro and the gang more believable, but, well, we all know how that turns out and what it is about. Perdido fucked around with this message at 04:32 on May 5, 2010 |
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May 5, 2010 04:28
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I think that map is from the Dragon Bas Lag issue. I can't find the drat thing at the moment, but it looks drat familiar.
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May 6, 2010 23:18
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Crazy! You dug it up. I was just going through my portable drives trying to find it and can stop now. That's strange, because the first map looks really familiar to me. Went into the bookstore today and preordered Kraken. Clerk there is also a Mieville fan and I guess I made her day when I placed it. She recommended Cherie Priest's Boneshaker for me. Alternative history 1800s steampunk themed Seattle, replete with zombies? It's not Bas-Lag, but it'll do. Really wish I followed this thread more...I picked up Court of the Air a while ago and it was trash, just as some folks said in here. Hopefully this one's better.
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May 8, 2010 11:22
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priznat posted:I'm hoping he finds the time to do an illustrated book of the monsters/races/locations of bas-lag, I recall reading an interview with him where he says he'd really like to do that. Adamant Entertainment has been working on a Bas Lag RPG book for about 2 loving years now. Mieville's been involved with it and will be contributing information, maps and artwork. Perdido fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jun 2, 2010 |
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Jun 2, 2010 23:06
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This is incredibly depressing to hear. 
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Jun 3, 2010 04:13
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pakman posted:However, everything else seemed to just piss me off as the book got closer to the end. Things seemed to happen simply to push the story along, seemingly with no motivation, and the main point I have in mind is David's betrayal of Issac. It just seemed to make no sense to me as why he would do it when he was featured so little in the story beforehand. Wasn't David the one who was frequenting a ReMade brothel and was effectively being blackmailed by the City? There's your motivation right there. quote:The next thing that pissed me off was the Weaver. I loved the concept of the character, and he had this badass voice in my head while I was reading the story. But his seeming appearance from nowhere to save the day not once, but twice, was too much to stomach for me. The Weaver was getting pissed with the slake moths loving up its poo poo and he had a vested interest in making sure that Isaac and Co. took them out. The Mayor tried to deal with the Weaver and it saw that the City was very much incapable of dealing with the slake moth threat. While it gets a little deus ex machina-ey, it's perfectly understandable why it'd be following Isaac around quote:Next, during the fight on the roof of Perdido Street Station testing the crisis engine, Jack shows up. What? Where did he come from, and why did he care? Again, I was left thinking that the author simply needed something to move his story along a little bit more to save his pathetic characters from the authorities. His appearance was really random, but he was built up throughout the novel, so to think that he wasn't going to show up just didn't seem right. I'm assuming Jack was adopting 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' line of thinking. There was that whole series of subplots with unions and the Runagate Rampant that may have drawn him in. quote:Overall, this book just left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Not because of anything political, but the content and writing of the story. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but were you expecting a happy or 'good' ending? The ending of the book is very bleak, which I know has been a turn off for other people who read it.
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Jul 27, 2011 05:54
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Right. It's been a while since I've read those books.
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Jul 27, 2011 16:00
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Walh Hara posted:Oh common, it's okay to dislike a writer. Even when you are an internet personality. There's nothing wrong with reading a book, not liking it and writing so in a clearly personal blogpost. It's not nice of him to give so little and vague information about why he thinks so, but he doesn't have to anyway. It's really confusing, given that Tycho's persona is very much someone who likes words for the sake of words (and has made numerous comics about such) and likes to convey himself as a very erudite individual, yet when confronted with something that screams it would be right up his alley, it's met not just with dislike, but straight up hate/revulsion. I find it hilarious, because he tries really hard to be something more than the Dickwolf Rape guy, but most of his sojourns into 'serious' or non-PA stuff have been huge bags of poo poo, and amusingly have many of the problems that he accuses Mieville of having. To me, it just seems like there's this guy who talks all the time about how he loves spicy food. He writes some blog posts about how he likes spicy food, makes some spicy food in the kitchen, etc. But then you present him with a nice curry dish, and dude flips out and says it is poo poo and tastes terrible. Turns out he just likes having his food drenched in Frank's Hot Sauce and doesn't actually like spicy food, he just likes Frank's Hot Sauce. Dude's totally entitled to eat whatever he wants, but he's still gonna get strange looks when he proclaims he loves spicy food, and then flips out whenever someone offers him spicy food and he hates it.
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Jun 20, 2013 11:58
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