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FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
Whatever happened to that history of the Communist Manifesto? Very weird to me that it seemed to be on track for publication then vanished into nothingness.

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FPyat
Jan 17, 2020

Tree Bucket posted:

Is this an elaborate Iron Council joke?

No, though it would be very apropos. I checked the Amazon page and it says it'll be published November 4, 2021.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
A guy I know thought Iron Council was Trotskyist propaganda. I guess I can see it as a literalized Permanent Revolution.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020

blurb posted:

Its ideas animate in different ways the work of writers like Yanis Varoufakis, Adam Tooze, Naomi Klein and the journalist Owen Jones.

lol

But seriously, I'm pretty disappointed. I was hoping for a history of the pamphlet over the years of its existence, its relative prominence in comparison with other propaganda texts, and judging whether it was successful at convincing people who read it. Instead it's just a reading of the manifesto.

FPyat fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jun 2, 2022

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
I came into the book from playing Fallen London, where Hell's embassy is common knowledge and devils give public lectures on the value of souls, so it felt comparatively understated.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
Guess there's no better time to note this bit from a critical internet commenter review of PSS that caught my eye recently.

some rando posted:

Ending spoiler:And then it follows with a whole lot of magical mathematical gobbledegook that makes no sense, in part because it's supposed to make no sense, because the magic system is supposed to sound scientifically rigorous even though it lacks scientific grounding

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
SFF guys giving non-SFF novels a go is often an interesting thing.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020

Xiahou Dun posted:

It's sci-fi in the sense that imagining a parallel Earth with different geography and history is always going to be. Even if you're realistic outside of that.

I disagree, there’s a clear distinction between alternate history that stays strictly within “normal” bounds of physical plausibility, and AH stories that introduce aliens, time travel, dimension-hopping, etc. Harry Turtledoge writes both kinds.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
Science fiction is not merely defined by difference from reality. People mostly do not say that fantasy simply is a form of science fiction, though I’m sure there are many theorists who do.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
You stated that ‘That’s like, not how the concepts of “different” and “same” work.’ Which suggested to me that that might be the definition of science fiction you might be operating with.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020

Xiahou Dun posted:

What I actually said however is that having an alternative present Earth is always, definitionally a science fiction premise.

That’s the primary reason why it seemed likely you would hold such a definition.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020

Xiahou Dun posted:

Perhaps this has been educational then.

It hasn't been educational because I still don't know what your definition of science fiction is. Note that this kind of debate is hardly new to the alternate history community.

Shevek23 posted:

That would certainly tend to suggest he would be similarly disabled in the ATL. 1912 is long enough after POD(s) to butterfly anything in particular, but the spirit of the TL is to tend to conserve persons and put them in different socio-political slots instead of traditional Church of the Almighty Butterfly with Misaligned Sperm that is something of a cult at AH.com--like, if you don't subscribe to this idea one is in danger of a mod ruling the TL ASB.

That is to say, if your alternate history began to diverge from reality before October 27, 1858, you could not include Theodore Roosevelt in your story and claim to be writing with the intent of being plausible - even if his parents had conceived at the same time, a different sperm cell would have impregnated, so the Theodore we know with the genome we know would not be born.

FPyat fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jun 3, 2023

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020

Xiahou Dun posted:

Rigid definitions of nuances are only useful if they’re widely agreed upon, and having a bespoke, personalized definition is completely antithetical to that.

I'd call that the opposite of the truth. People need to stake out what exactly their terms are when there is no wide consensus about it (after all, people can't even settle whether Star Wars is SF); rather, it is when there is wide agreement that there is no need to get into the convoluted specifics. If you want your own view of its meaning to be immaterial, then you don't have much cause to declare it bonkers to adopt one of the other definitions in the contested social discourse that decides what science fiction is.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020

scary ghost dog posted:

its fiction with science in it

It’s funny because intellectually I agree with the broad view of science fiction, but my gut really just wants it to be spaceships and robots, plain and simple.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
What I want ideally is for alternate history to be seen as an equal member of a triad with SF and Fantasy, but its lesser popularity means it’s never going to happen.

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
So is Looking For Jake better or worse than Three Moments taken as a whole?

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FPyat
Jan 17, 2020
Premise reminds me of Alan Moore’s interpretation of Virginia Woolf’s Orlando in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

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