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Graviton v2
Mar 2, 2007

by angerbeet

Kerbtree posted:

Heads up, UK goons - radio 4's airing State of the Art this week. Get yer arse over to iplayer.
Its under "Afternoon Play" in drama for those like me wondering where the gently caress it was for 5 minutes. Thanks for letting me know though!

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Crime on a Dime
Nov 28, 2006
Side recommendation for Iain M. Banks readers: Greg Egan

narfanator
Dec 16, 2008
Oh hell yes. Diaspora has what could be badly termed the intellectual's Snow Crash opening.

Danhenge
Dec 16, 2005

Payndz posted:

It all comes together at the end, and for me it was... let's just say :aaa: . So yes, it's worth sticking with.

The other Culture novels are for the most part more conventionally structured. I'm sure that Banks once said somewhere that he originally wrote Use Of Weapons in chronological order and thought it was lacking, so rewrote it with the forwards/backwards structure to put the key moment at the end.

I figured it out pretty early in the book but it was still pretty good

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

Crime on a Dime posted:

Side recommendation for Iain M. Banks readers: Greg Egan

Egan can be fantastically good, especially his short stories, but with half his novels I end up feeling like I don't know nearly enough theoretical physics to really appreciate what he's doing. Still, Diaspora and Permutation City were goddamn fantastic, and Quarantine blew my loving mind when I was 17. Didn't enjoy Schild's Ladder, Distress or Teranesia quite as much, but they were still really interesting.

I got Incandescence for xmas and it's still on my to-read list.

His short stories are almost uniformly brilliant though. He's got that great old '60s/'70s "What if..." writing philosophy updated with a good knowledge of modern day theoretical physics and biotech. Some of his stories make me think "this is what Larry Niven would have written if someone had sent a crate of New Scientists back in time to him in the '60s".

Gravy Jones
Sep 13, 2003

I am not on your side

Danhenge posted:

I figured it out pretty early in the book but it was still pretty good

Out of interest did you know there was some kind of twist at the end? I think it's one of those books that get spoiled a lot because it gets recommended with "there's a really big twist that'll freak you our" or whatever... and once you know that there's not much it could be.

Piglet
Jan 22, 2002

Zub! Zub!

Turpitude posted:

And on another note, what are everyone's favourite Banks action scenes?

Consider Phlebas: The main characters are on a ringworld and land on a giant drifting super cruise ship in the fog to steal a laser cannon for their ship. The giant cruise ship slams its billions of tonnes into an even more gigantic iceberg causing it to fold up like an accordion as the main character runs away with his shipmates to leap into a shuttle, leaving a guy behind. The guy who was left behind has a PERSONAL NUKE and he goes nuts trying to kill everyone by setting it off.
From the same book I loved how he ratcheted up the tension with the runaway train. That was such a cinematic moment with them finally realizing what was about to happen when they felt the breeze coming out of the tunnel.

The escape from the ring world was pretty cool too.


Turpitude posted:

The Algebraist: The sailing races on the gas giant with the Dwellers. The betrayal with nano machines, followed by The Major falling into the gas giant and firing upwards before being blasted out of her suit and sliced in half. Then the emergence of the massive Dweller fleet out of the stormwalls to destroy the stupid humans, the rising of the Deniable and the annihilation of an entire enemy fleet, the Dwellers joyfully betting on the spectacle. Hilarious and gripping stuff.
Yes, that scene was awesome. The Dwellers went from ineffectual dandies to technologically superior bad-asses at that point.

Turpitude
Oct 13, 2004

Love love love

be an organ donor
Soiled Meat
I just finished Look to Windward and while it was the usual stellar Banks fare, once again there was no real satisfaction for me in the ending. The entire book was building towards a climax that was simply nullified by the Culture who had had a secret agent working for them the whole time. This book also lacked the action scenes that I fell in love with in Phlebas and Algebraist. Still a great read, but Banks has yet to deliver me an ending I've been satisfied with.

My favourite parts of Look to Windward have to be the stuff in the airspheres with the dirigible behemothaurs. I love that kind of study of utterly bizarre alien lifeforms and it really left me wanting more.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

Turpitude posted:

I just finished Look to Windward and while it was the usual stellar Banks fare, once again there was no real satisfaction for me in the ending. The entire book was building towards a climax that was simply nullified by the Culture who had had a secret agent working for them the whole time. This book also lacked the action scenes that I fell in love with in Phlebas and Algebraist. Still a great read, but Banks has yet to deliver me an ending I've been satisfied with.

My favourite parts of Look to Windward have to be the stuff in the airspheres with the dirigible behemothaurs. I love that kind of study of utterly bizarre alien lifeforms and it really left me wanting more.

"Dirigible Behemothaur" is also really fun to say out loud.

Danhenge
Dec 16, 2005

Hello Pity posted:

Out of interest did you know there was some kind of twist at the end? I think it's one of those books that get spoiled a lot because it gets recommended with "there's a really big twist that'll freak you our" or whatever... and once you know that there's not much it could be.

no I just figured it out, I do that a lot

the fart question
Mar 21, 2007

College Slice

Biplane posted:

I've read one Banks book, and it was kind of all over the place. Early on you had some colonists I think, exploring a crashed starship and finding something, and then there's an alien warlord with a head for a punching bag and then you're with one of the colonists as he's fleeing someone and ends up with a bunch of balloon people. I didn't really like it. :X

Sounds like the algebraist to me (I loved it). If you want an M Banks book that's easier to follow but still good The Player Of Games is p cool

JgPz
Oct 21, 2008

Foxy Stoat posted:

The Lazy Gun in Against A Dark Background is cool, its effects when fired at a target are unpredictable, it might crush someone with an anchor, summon a tidal wave, or destroy a city with a comet. Definite Douglas Adams influence there, I reckon.

Ah this is where I'm running into problems with Use Of Weapons. The characters and situations are on occasion so drat wacky and zany when I was expecting it all to be a little more gritty. I almost stopped reading after the orgy, and again with the mutilation party.

I'm just over half way through and very tempted to stop. Is poo poo about to get real™ at any point?

the fart question
Mar 21, 2007

College Slice

JgPz posted:

Ah this is where I'm running into problems with Use Of Weapons. The characters and situations are on occasion so drat wacky and zany when I was expecting it all to be a little more gritty. I almost stopped reading after the orgy, and again with the mutilation party.

I'm just over half way through and very tempted to stop. Is poo poo about to get real™ at any point?

The ending sucks balls but I'm not gonna spoil it for you.

Gravy Jones
Sep 13, 2003

I am not on your side

JgPz posted:

Ah this is where I'm running into problems with Use Of Weapons. The characters and situations are on occasion so drat wacky and zany when I was expecting it all to be a little more gritty. I almost stopped reading after the orgy, and again with the mutilation party.

Pretty much all of Banks' books do this to some extent. Even the more serious ones tend to have their absurdist moments. This goes for his non-science fiction as well. He's not and never has been a particularly gritty author.

I think if anything the recurring theme in all his work is excess. So when he writes about crime, violence and murder (in the case of something like Complicity) or disfunctional sociopaths (like The Wasp Factory), that too tends to be excessive.

He can get some mixed reviews because of this, what some percieve as over-the-top nastiness/grittiness, I've always felt was actually intended as tongue-in-cheek, hyperbolic nastiness. To me it's all whacky and zany. If you're expecting anything else I suspect you may be disapointed.

It might be in a minority with this but as far as I'm concerned all of Banks' books are comedies. Not as overtly so as something like the Diskworld novels or the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, but still at heart comedic in nature. I don't think they tend to get marketed as such though, especially the science fiction books.

If you end up deciding this isn't the sort of stuff you're into and want some genuinely gritty sci-fi you could do worse than checking out Richard Morgan's stuff, especially the Takeshi Kovacs books.

Gravy Jones fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Mar 20, 2009

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

Hello Pity posted:

It might be in a minority with this but as far as I'm concerned all of Banks' books are comedies. Not as overtly so as something like the Diskworld novels or the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, but still at heart comedic in nature. I don't think they tend to get marketed as such though, especially the science fiction books.

I always thought Look to Windward was a wee bit Wodehouseian, what with all the social comedy of the two main characters avoiding each other for the whole book.

Calenth
Jul 11, 2001



Entropic posted:


The Player of Games - The second of the Culture books, and a very straightforward tale. It has none of the disjointed jumping back and forth in time that shows up in so many of Banks' books, and it's a very good introduction to The Culture as a setting. Personally I found it to be a fun read, but a little too simplistic. It has far less moral ambiguity than most of the rest of the Culture series.
Personally, I found the first of his SF books, Consider Phlebas, to be a bit lacklustre and I'm glad I didn't start with it. It's an entertaining enough space opera romp, but by the end I was left thinking "so what?"


I read a fair number of Culture novels a while back, and while I respect Banks as an author, I remember having a significant distaste for both of those books in particular -- Consider Phlebas and The Player of Games.

The Player of Games seemed like he was pulling a reverse Heinlein and using sci-fi to take cheap shots at opposing ideologies -- i.e., he's positing a post-scarcity environment, then writing a sci-fi novel attacking a capitalist (and conveniently also inherently sexist, etc.) society because, hey, look, they aren't an enlightened post-scarcity socialist economy! How evil of them! Of course, plenty of great SF has been just a political vehicle -- from H.G. Wells on down -- so that's not really a criticism as such, just something I personally found irritating. It seemed like he was taking cheap shots.

Consider Phlebas I just found depressing. I read it as a deconstruction of the heroic sci-fi epic -- taking the standard SF trope of individual, capable, hero protagonists and deconstructing it. Which is well and good intellectually but an approach I found somewhat fundamentally nihilistic and depressing. Again, it's not a bad book at all, but I found myself just disliking its world-view.

HoldYourFire
Oct 16, 2006

What's the time? It's DEFCON 1!

Calenth posted:

The Player of Games seemed like he was pulling a reverse Heinlein and using sci-fi to take cheap shots at opposing ideologies -- i.e., he's positing a post-scarcity environment, then writing a sci-fi novel attacking a capitalist (and conveniently also inherently sexist, etc.) society because, hey, look, they aren't an enlightened post-scarcity socialist economy! How evil of them! Of course, plenty of great SF has been just a political vehicle -- from H.G. Wells on down -- so that's not really a criticism as such, just something I personally found irritating. It seemed like he was taking cheap shots.

It's been a while since I read PoG, but they aren't really capitalist, are they? More like feudalist/caste system/meritocratic. Also, I wonder if I could get your interpretation of the ending? I kind of think

that he essentially falls in love with the savage beauty of the Azadian society, realises he's won the ultimate game and got back to the sterile Culture with a woman who he'll never "possess" in the way the Azadians do so he commits suicide. Anything to add?

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

HoldYourFire posted:

It's been a while since I read PoG, but they aren't really capitalist, are they? More like feudalist/caste system/meritocratic. Also, I wonder if I could get your interpretation of the ending? I kind of think

that he essentially falls in love with the savage beauty of the Azadian society, realises he's won the ultimate game and got back to the sterile Culture with a woman who he'll never "possess" in the way the Azadians do so he commits suicide. Anything to add?

Where on earth did you get the idea that he commits suicide? And he didn't fall in love with Azad the society at all, just Azad the game.

Away Message
Apr 8, 2003

Entropic posted:

Where on earth did you get the idea that he commits suicide? And he didn't fall in love with Azad the society at all, just Azad the game.
Almost at the end:
We'll never know; if you're reading this he's long dead; had his appointment with the displacement drone and been zapped to the very livid heart of the system, corpse blasted to plasma in the vast erupting core of Chiark's sun,...
Could be argued this happened years and years after everything else in the book though.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

Away Message posted:

Could be argued this happened years and years after everything else in the book though.
That's certainly how I took it. He's had "centuries later" epilogues in half the other Culture books.

Psiharis
Mar 11, 2007

I love forest of rain.Foevar...
Am I alone in thinking Complicity was utter poo poo? Loser with no redeeming characteristics plays some Civ, rapes some peeps, slaughters some dogs... yeah, raping the husband with his wife's pink dildo (in loving detail :psyduck:) was as far as I made it into that book, and I haven't picked up a Banks book since.

Which is a shame, because I adored The Wasp Factory and The Bridge, which I've noticed a few people listing with Complicity as favorites. I even liked The Business for what it was -- a nice, unambitious airport book. But gently caress Complicity with a lotion-smeared pink dildo, what the loving gently caress.

Graviton v2
Mar 2, 2007

by angerbeet

Psiharis posted:

Am I alone in thinking Complicity was utter poo poo? Loser with no redeeming characteristics plays some Civ, rapes some peeps, slaughters some dogs... yeah, raping the husband with his wife's pink dildo (in loving detail :psyduck:) was as far as I made it into that book, and I haven't picked up a Banks book since.

Which is a shame, because I adored The Wasp Factory and The Bridge, which I've noticed a few people listing with Complicity as favorites. I even liked The Business for what it was -- a nice, unambitious airport book. But gently caress Complicity with a lotion-smeared pink dildo, what the loving gently caress.
Whit was the best non sci-fi imo, im recommending. Its lots of fun, a substancial read that gets you involved.

HoldYourFire
Oct 16, 2006

What's the time? It's DEFCON 1!

Entropic posted:

That's certainly how I took it. He's had "centuries later" epilogues in half the other Culture books.

I didn't think of it that way, fair enough.

Danhenge
Dec 16, 2005

Hello Pity posted:

He can get some mixed reviews because of this, what some percieve as over-the-top nastiness/grittiness, I've always felt was actually intended as tongue-in-cheek, hyperbolic nastiness. To me it's all whacky and zany. If you're expecting anything else I suspect you may be disapointed.

It might be in a minority with this but as far as I'm concerned all of Banks' books are comedies. Not as overtly so as something like the Diskworld novels or the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, but still at heart comedic in nature. I don't think they tend to get marketed as such though, especially the science fiction books.

Would you place Look to Windward in this category? There are obviously some wacky points but overall I think the tone is a little more serious than some of his other books.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

Danhenge posted:

Would you place Look to Windward in this category? There are obviously some wacky points but overall I think the tone is a little more serious than some of his other books.

Almost all of Banks' books seem to have their non-serious and even comedic moments, but an overall serious point to them. I mean the conversation about ship-names in Look To Windward isn't exactly, well, infused with gravitas now is it? Or the bit about "pylon country"? But moments like those are silly in a way that serves the story, they show you how Culture people think, and why they think their way of doing things is so great.

Sadsack
Mar 5, 2009

Fighting evil with cups of tea and crippling self-doubt.
Do not, under any circumstances, try and read Canal Dreams. Banks was attempting to write a Graham Greene? John La Carre style thriller with depth. But it just starts out boring and eventually dissolves into ridiculousness. So far this is the only 'M'-less book I’ve tried, and it disappointed me beyond words.

However I cannot recommend The Algebraist, Player of Games and Use Of Weapons enough.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

Sadsack posted:

Do not, under any circumstances, try and read Canal Dreams. Banks was attempting to write a Graham Greene? John La Carre style thriller with depth. But it just starts out boring and eventually dissolves into ridiculousness. So far this is the only 'M'-less book I’ve tried, and it disappointed me beyond words.

However I cannot recommend The Algebraist, Player of Games and Use Of Weapons enough.

Yeah, I got halfway through Canal Dreams before giving up. His first three, The Wasp Factory, Walking On Glass and The Bridge are all highly recommended though. They all read like an author writing regular fiction when he secretly wanted to be an SF writer. Which was pretty much the case.

Hoping to make a good dent in Inversions today, it's the only Culture book I haven't finished yet.

parsleyc
Sep 28, 2007

Away Message posted:

Almost at the end:
We'll never know; if you're reading this he's long dead; had his appointment with the displacement drone and been zapped to the very livid heart of the system, corpse blasted to plasma in the vast erupting core of Chiark's sun,...
Could be argued this happened years and years after everything else in the book though.

When citizens of the Culture die, they typically have their bodies displaced into the sun. I don't believe this passage indicates that he chose to end his life.

Awesome Culture novel though, probably my favorite.

parsleyc fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Mar 22, 2009

FelchTragedy
Jul 2, 2002

FelchTragedy.
Internet, I call forth your power!
Let's T_Roll.
It's been years since I read some of the books but if I recall rightly about the interpretations.

Player of games:

He was getting disillusioned with the playing of games. Less interested, even cheated and then heard that the player he cheated got a perfect score. Azad and the destruction and absorbtion of the unpleasant society through his playing of the game actually meant he achieved something of an importance through game playing and thus it reinvigorated him.


Also I don't know if I've imagined it or not


but wasn't the drone amtiskaw whom Gurgeh didn't get along with actually his old drone friend in disguise. This meant that the culture had been playing him quite possibly for a long time in order to get him to fulfil a destiny set out for him and a goal for them.

If not
Please berate me if I'm wrong, but it's been such a long time.

A thing to note about Matter: (I've listened to the audiobook so forgive wrong spelling)
The Iln were one of the machine swarm species that the xelecene god beast creatures dealt with in the far past. That's why it was torturing it and before it said "NO FORGIVENESS". Also it wondered at the weird bio creatures as it held djan's head and spine.

I felt that the central characters, the royal ones and holsk all went on a journey to matter. They were all pretty likeable characters, even Prince Thurbin who redeemed himself from being very arrogant to finally being noble. Also as a side note even tough Djan and the ship and the drone (as they were SC) are or may be backed up, but they lose that precious exerience of mattering. The quest to matter even when you are insignificant was what the book implied to me.



The books are being audioed in increasing amounts so maybe a 17 hour listen of matter might suit people better. The narrator is pretty good with all kinds of different accents. Morganveld sound welsh!


Please rate the ship names I've thought of so far:
GSV Forbidden cupboard of mystery and wonder.
ROU Reversing bus blunder.

FelchTragedy fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Mar 23, 2009

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks

FelchTragedy posted:

Also I don't know if I've imagined it or not


but wasn't the drone amtiskaw whom Gurgeh didn't get along with actually his old drone friend in disguise. This meant that the culture had been playing him quite possibly for a long time in order to get him to fulfil a destiny set out for him and a goal for them.

If not
Please berate me if I'm wrong, but it's been such a long time.
The drone that tried to blackmail him and the drone that was sent on the mission with him were pretty obviously the same drone, but I don't think it was also anyone else.

it dont matter
Aug 29, 2008

Psiharis posted:

yeah, raping the husband with his wife's pink dildo (in loving detail :psyduck:) was as far as I made it into that book, and I haven't picked up a Banks book since.

Wasn't that bad, they were just role-playing.

I am OK
Mar 9, 2009

LAWL
My favourite action scene is properly the start of Excession, where that brave little droid keeps having to shunt its memory core into progressively more basic processors. From high-level quantum computers right through to the worst available - of course it's a squishy ball of grey matter :) I don't think this is a spoiler, btw, as it happens in the first few pages. Anyway, like Excession, which ranks as my top M book, it's pure spaceship porn without any wanky ST-esque technobabble. Or, at least, the tech stuff is fabulously sexy.

I'm surprised that there isn't more love for The State of the Art. The mains short story in the collection is, outside of the obvious like War & Peace etc. in my opinion, the most illuminating out of all the books I've read that deal with 'the human condition'. The scene at the end, when the character who 'went native' (I don't remember his name, it's been a while) is shown to be sallow-skinned, withdrawn and clearly self-dillusional, yet still insists on his happiness really does speak to me about what we're like. Yes, it's a bit clumsy and obvious when I read it now, and nostalgia is probably colouring its effect on me in somewhat (I first read it in 1996, so I was thirteen. It came free on the front of a PC games magazine. Best freebie ever!), but still... I can't think of many books, least of all sci-fi, that tackle this issue and against a (dark) background of ultra-high-tech machinery and god-like AI, for Banks to conclude the story with the tale of a very basic humanoid who is confused and lonely, to focus in on that rather than the world-destroying spaceship floating above, is a very gusty thing to do. At least I think so, anyway.

And of course the GCU is just a riot.

Best spaceship name? 'Ethics Gradient'.

Best quote?

'It looks like a dildo,' she said. 'How appropriate,' the droid said 'fully armed, it can gently caress solar systems.'

Or something like that. :c00lbert:

FelchTragedy
Jul 2, 2002

FelchTragedy.
Internet, I call forth your power!
Let's T_Roll.
I was a bit unhappy that the radio verion of state of the art seemed to skip over the relation of the name to story to what it meant in the story.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks
Just finished "Inversions" the other day, so I've now officially read all the Culture books. I think it would probably more enjoyable going in to it not knowing that it's a Culture book. Once you figure out that Doctor Vosill is a Culture agent (which is so obvious so early on I probably needn't have spoilered it), it kind of ruins any genuine suspense you might have about the character's predicament. How much danger can someone really be in in a medieval society when they've got a godly interstellar civilization backing them and probably have a deadly Drone lurking somewhere nearby to guard them?

In a lot of ways it felt like a tentative dry-run for "Matter".

Space Monster
Mar 13, 2009

Great writer, I love the Culture novels. Use of Weapons is easily in my top 5; the last page was absolutely brutal. The mix of absolutely hilarious comedy that is followed so quickly by complete despairing tragedy is insane.

Since it's getting to be a fad, my favorite ship name has to be Hand Me The Gun And Ask Me Again.

quote:

Reading Banks for the first time, Use of Weapons, and the order of the book is seriously sapping my enjoyment. I hate having a pretty interesting narrative completely and frequently interrupted by a little disjointed historical scene from Zak's life. I also feel completely in the dark regarding character's motivations and why they act the way they do. Zakalwe in particular seems the most schizophrenic, especially with the revelations about his past.

I enjoy the premise of the book and find it very original. To me the Culture like a Star Trek liberal utopia taken to the absolute extreme, yet it meddles and engages in cultural imperialism to an extent unimagined even by the people who complain about such things today. It's a fascinating yet entirely believable contradiction.

I'll finish the book, but unless the necessity of the unique chronological order becomes abundantly clear in the climax, or the characters start making more sense, I probably won't any further into this author.

For the love of God, finish. It seems like a very strange book that doesn't make much sense until literally the very end, and then "Oh....that's an incredible piece of writing."

Space Monster fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Apr 8, 2009

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006
John C, Wright doesn't like The Player of Games and some other books, is a pretentious wanker. Also, John Crowley popping up in the comments section to defend his book.

JgPz
Oct 21, 2008

Space Monster posted:

For the love of God, finish. It seems like a very strange book that doesn't make much sense until literally the very end, and then "Oh....that's an incredible piece of writing."

I just finished after putting it down for a couple weeks, more out of ocd than genuine interest. The ending was cool, I didn't care a lick for Zakalwe so I was just like 'hehe twisty'. Reading it as a comedy definitely helped, the part where Zakalwe fights the voiceless guy was funny.

Oh and to correct that list that was posted earlier, chronologically the prologue and epilogue most likely happen last. It's the only place where bald Zakalwe makes sense.

Space Monster
Mar 13, 2009

JgPz posted:

I just finished after putting it down for a couple weeks, more out of ocd than genuine interest. The ending was cool, I didn't care a lick for Zakalwe so I was just like 'hehe twisty'. Reading it as a comedy definitely helped, the part where Zakalwe fights the voiceless guy was funny.

Oh and to correct that list that was posted earlier, chronologically the prologue and epilogue most likely happen last. It's the only place where bald Zakalwe makes sense.


I read the book in one sitting and managed to become very immersed in the book, I became emotionally attached to Zakalwe and so the end really hit me pretty hard.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

There are only 2 authors the books of whom I will preorder at the first glimmering hint, then hoard in perfect hardback glory for all eternity. Iain M. Banks is one, I attribute this wholly to having read Excessions first, at the age of 15. It blew my mind wide open and I have all the M books in hardback, cause I'm a obsessive idiot and you've got to spend your money somewhere, right?

I liked the idea of against a dark background alluding to so many different things. My favourite was that the closest star was a million lightyears away.

I liked the departure from the culture with the Algebraist, particularly how in 1 paragraph you are introduced to the Archmandrite Luciferous the third and have the depth of his insane cruelty laid open for you.

What are we due next? I haven't looked for any rumours recently.

Ship names -
I blame my mother
I blame your mother

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Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks
It should be an M-less next, since Matter was last. Haven't heard any hints as to what it's going to be about.

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