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babyeatingpsychopath posted:That's interesting; never thought of it because of the extra cost on the real big wire. You're using the big wire to make all your parallel strings + and - points electrically equivalent, so it should make literally no difference where on that parallel connection you hook anything up. Having thought about it some more, you're always going to get voltage drop on your big wire, so you connect your high-current stuff to opposite ends of your string so you have the same total voltage drop for your high-current applications. For lead-acid, I don't THINK the difference is going to matter when you're charging/floating, but it's hard to tell. Quote instead of edit so I could attach this picture.
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Jul 14, 2022 02:19
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I posted here awhile ago about installing an interlock kit for a portable generator. I haven't gotten an electrician out yet, but I opened the panel the other day, and I've got a question before I get any further in the process. My plan was to have them combine two of the 20 amps on the right into a tandem breaker, and shift everything down so they can fit a 30amp double pole at the top for the generator circuit. I was expecting to see an indication inside the panel of which positions could take tandem breakers, but I don't see anything. Do some panels accept tandems in any spot? In no spots?
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Jul 14, 2022 02:35
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:That's interesting; never thought of it because of the extra cost on the real big wire. You're using the big wire to make all your parallel strings + and - points electrically equivalent, so it should make literally no difference where on that parallel connection you hook anything up. Aren't those batteries wired in series?
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Jul 14, 2022 02:44
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Slugworth posted:I was expecting to see an indication inside the panel of which positions could take tandem breakers, but I don't see anything. Do some panels accept tandems in any spot? In no spots? Usually that's on the picture on the door (which you already removed). Also yes, some panels accept tandems in every spot.
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Jul 14, 2022 02:44
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Danhenge posted:Aren't those batteries wired in serial? 2x 12V in serial for 24V, x2 in parallel. Just like the original.
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Jul 14, 2022 02:45
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:2x 12V in serial for 24V, x2 in parallel. Just like the original. Ah, right. I think what he's talking about is wiring your batteries on opposite ends of the series. The videos I've watched about big battery banks wired in series often advocate for attaching the leads from the batteries at opposite ends of the series connection, because the batteries connected closest to the inverter in the series tend to get discharged faster than the batteries near the end of the series string. Do you think that's likely to be true? Maybe it doesn't matter on a string this small. edit: I think the picture gets it wrong, but I think maybe that's what he's talking about. edit 2: Something like this: 
Danhenge fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jul 14, 2022 |
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Jul 14, 2022 02:54
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Danhenge posted:Ah, right. I think what he's talking about is wiring your batteries on opposite ends of the series. The videos I've watched about big battery banks wired in series often advocate for attaching the leads from the batteries at opposite ends of the series connection, because the batteries connected closest to the inverter in the series tend to get discharged faster than the batteries near the end of the series string. Do you think that's likely to be true? Maybe it doesn't matter on a string this small. Except for the fact that you literally got the word "series" where you should have been writing "parallel" then yes. Also, the picture is getting it right, and it's also what he's talking about. Take another look at your picture and my picture.
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Jul 14, 2022 03:02
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Except for the fact that you literally got the word "series" where you should have been writing "parallel" then yes. Also, the picture is getting it right, and it's also what he's talking about. Take another look at your picture and my picture. Aha, indeed. This is why I was being careful to ask this as a question rather than a suggestion. Edit: Nevermind, I went back and I'm definitely the confused one. Danhenge fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jul 14, 2022 |
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Jul 14, 2022 03:06
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Ok I'm staring at this and I still feel like a crazy person. Aren't the inverter wires coming off the batteries here coming off the main positive and main negative of the right series string, rather than coming off the opposite ends of the parallel string?
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Jul 14, 2022 03:34
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Danhenge posted:Ok I'm staring at this and I still feel like a crazy person. Aren't the inverter wires coming off the batteries here coming off the main positive and main negative of the right series string, rather than coming off the opposite ends of the parallel string? The picture as drawn: The Left two batteries are in series. The Right two batteries are in series. The Top two batteries connect in parallel to form the - of the parallel "string" and the Bottom two batteries connect in parallel to form the + of the parallel "string." So nothing in that picture is connected to "opposite" sides of a parallel "string." If you'd like to think of it this way: you have two 24v batteries there, a left and a right. The charger is connected to the left battery and the inverter is connected to the right battery. The picture I drew and the question I think OP wants answered is connecting the + of the high current to the left battery and the - of the high current to the right battery.
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Jul 14, 2022 04:00
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:The picture as drawn: The Left two batteries are in series. The Right two batteries are in series. The Top two batteries connect in parallel to form the - of the parallel "string" and the Bottom two batteries connect in parallel to form the + of the parallel "string." Is the path from the left battery to the inverter not going to have higher resistance owing to longer wiring length? The right battery is directly connected to the inverter, the left battery's stored power has to pass through the parallel connections to reach the inverter. It's entirely possible we're at the limits of my education on the physics of electricity, so feel free to say you don't want to talk about this anymore.
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Jul 14, 2022 04:17
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Danhenge posted:Is the path from the left battery to the inverter not going to have higher resistance owing to longer wiring length? The right battery is directly connected to the inverter, the left battery's stored power has to pass through the parallel connections to reach the inverter. Yes, when connecting the inverter to one battery and not across both, then it is possible that one battery is going to have a different load put on it. And it is literally the reason I drew a picture to correct their picture. It is the PRECISE reason I answered their question with a simple diagram of the solution they asked for. They drew a picture that conveyed their understanding of the phrase "opposite ends of the bank." This picture that they drew, and that I interpreted in precisely the way you did, is incorrect. Which is why there is a NEW picture, one that I drew, that references the correct connections for "opposite ends of the bank." These connections (the ones from my picture) are the same ones as shown in the photo you linked. It's also why I left my original post in: because quick glancing at the theory isn't the same as the practical application.
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Jul 14, 2022 04:27
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Yes, when connecting the inverter to one battery and not across both, then it is possible that one battery is going to have a different load put on it. And it is literally the reason I drew a picture to correct their picture. It is the PRECISE reason I answered their question with a simple diagram of the solution they asked for. Thanks. To be clear, I never meant there was a problem with your picture. It was just non-obvious to me what your picture meant (although I think I mostly get it now), and I was trying to clarify my understanding of what was going on.
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Jul 14, 2022 04:32
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Battery series/parallel stuff always gets me going cross eyed after looking at it too long lol. So, as far as "from opposite sides" compared to what I was thinking before, is this wiring arrangement what would be appropriate to better balance the load for it? Where I have one lead on one of the "24v batteries" basically, and the other lead on the other "24v battery"?  Also, though this is of no practical concern, out of curiosity, where you have the series being made, is there a sort of... industry or regulation color for a cable going from + to - side? Like are those typically done in red or black or some other color? Again not that that matters in the slightest it just made me curious when I was shopping for 2/0 battery cables.
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Jul 15, 2022 21:05
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Hey folks. Crossposting fromt he HVAC thread. Just bought a house with an HVAC from the late 90s. Went to replace the honeywell thermostat with a smart one. The C wire wasn't connected and coiled up behind the thermostat. However when I connected it, the thermostat didn't power on. I'm using an Amazon smart thermostat and the wires I have are R, G, W, Y and C. I popped up into the attic and checked the furnace and it appears the C wire is connected fine (and is indeed the blue one). See the attached pic. I metered the wires by putting one lead on the R and then cycling the other lead around the wires. The C read 0 (well, 0.2) and all the other wires read 27 volts. Is there something else on the furnace board I should be checking? Anything else to think of as to why the C wire isn't returning power? Here's the pic of the connected C  Here's the pic of the wires going into the sheathing (that matches what comes out the other end at the thermo)  EDIT: Ok so I went back up to the furnace. I think I was wrong - that group of wires on the board is *not* from the thermostat? The wire bundle from the thermostat's end also had an orange and two blacks with it. Looking back at the furnace, there is a thicker bundle of wires (you can see in the above pics) that also include a blue wire that goes over and connects to the "24VC" connection on the back end. There's a whole little circuit of blue wires that goes through a 2 amp breaker (that didn't seem to be tripped). So I think *that's* where my C wire issues is going to be. More pics incoming! BonoMan fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 22:29
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I'm trying to install a smart (wifi) fan controller and light dimmer in my bedroom. The electric box is a single-gang unit and so is the controller. But the controller is kind of bulky. And there are a lot of wires in the box. One three-wire Romex feed, two different three-wire Romex wire bundles going out for wall boxes, plus the four-wire Romex bundle going to the fan and light in the ceiling. I can connect the controller box, no problem. But I am having a hell of a time getting the wires stuffed into the single-gang box with enough room left over for the controller. I have already ripped the original plastic box out of the wall and replaced it with what I think was the largest blue plastic single-gang "old work" box at the hardware store. Is there some other option that can save me here? Does anyone make a "regular-depth" old work box with that little side piece sticking out like they make for shallow boxes? Another option I would reluctantly accept is installing a double-gang box with a single-gang Decora (the rectangle opening) trim plate centered in the two-gang opening if anyone makes something like that? PBCrunch fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 23:25
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Tom Guycot posted:Battery series/parallel stuff always gets me going cross eyed after looking at it too long lol. I would use red because shorting that wire to circuit ground would be at least as dangerous as shorting the +terminal of a single battery. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 23:35
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The previous owner of the home I live in used what appears to be romex to run landscape uplighting for some trees. Like just romex, no conduit of any kind. It's just buried in the soil, shallow enough that it pops through the surface in spots. It hasn't been an issue so far. I would continue to just let it roll, but I am considering doing some digging around the trees. What is the minimum safe way to address this? Trace it to the panel, shut it off, chop and cap the romex off and dig?
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Jul 16, 2022 20:14
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Barry Soteriology posted:The previous owner of the home I live in used what appears to be romex to run landscape uplighting for some trees. Like just romex, no conduit of any kind. It's just buried in the soil, shallow enough that it pops through the surface in spots. It hasn't been an issue so far. I would continue to just let it roll, but I am considering doing some digging around the trees. What is the minimum safe way to address this? Trace it to the panel, shut it off, chop and cap the romex off and dig? Are you sure it's not Underground Feeder cable?
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Jul 16, 2022 20:29
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I guess it could be. I'll try to take a closer look next time I'm out there. I'm guessing from the name it doesn't need to be in conduit? Would my chop and cap idea still apply if I want to start digging around?
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Jul 16, 2022 21:18
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Replacing subpanel in backyard, fed by 6 gauge THWN. Old panel had a 40 amp and 15 amp breaker. 15 amp was for convenience outlet in Handibox under panel as well as some bullshit hacked together garbage running perhaps landscape lighting? Still not sure but basically the PO had run a hot and neutral, which I'm pretty sure was just the innards of Romex i.e. not actual THHN not that it matters, out of a drilled hole in the top of the convenience outlet handibox 3 feet through empty air, put ferrules on the wire ends, and plugged them straight into the output of one of those old Intermatic heavy duty timers....which was plugged into the convenience outlet as its power source. This was confusing until I opened the handibox and realized the freeballing hot and neutral disappear down into the ground in the same 1/2 conduit as the actual 15 amp circuit wiring continues into - so who the gently caress knows what all of that is about, I don't care right now and it's disconnected). Anyway - 40 amp breaker was for hot tub, which is about 15 feet away from the panel location, so maybe 20 feet of wire run (and old breaker wasn't GFCI of course). Feed for hot tub is 8 gauge copper. My problem is, the hot tub manual says it should be on a 50 amp breaker but only uses 40 amps - I'm wondering if this was to account for continuous usage. The hot tub had in fact stopped working, whether the old breaker was on or not, which is maybe because the breaker couldn't actually take 40 amps continuous? (Subpanel is being fed by a 60 amp breaker in the main panel so that wasn't the issue, though there certainly were issues since that same breaker had the AC feed run into it, sure, yeah, just go ahead and put two 40-50 amp continuous loads on a 60 amp breaker and, y'know, two wires under each lug while you're at it). 310.16 says 8 gauge copper at 75 is 50-amp rated, but I'm seeing most people suggest 6 gauge for the run (though many are suggesting it with the idea that you'll at some point replace with a 60 amp hot tub, and that is not in my plans anytime soon). Replacing the run would be more pain in the rear end than I care to deal with right now, so I'd like an opinion before I talk to the AHJ as to whether I can put a 50 amp (GFCI) breaker in the new panel and reuse the 8 gauge.
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Jul 16, 2022 22:15
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Barry Soteriology posted:I guess it could be. I'll try to take a closer look next time I'm out there. I'm guessing from the name it doesn't need to be in conduit? Would my chop and cap idea still apply if I want to start digging around? Even UF needs to be buried a specific amount without conduit and a less but specific amount with, so that's been done wrong and I'm glad you aren't interested in using it anymore. I would suggest that you find it at the panel - hopefully it's on one breaker - or at whatever junction it's on, disconnect it from there and twist all the wires together. Do the same thing at the other side(s), then turn the breaker back on. This ensure that not only isn't it hooked up anywhere (breaker would pop) but nobody is goin to successfully hook it back up and have a live circuit hanging on out there later on. Twisting everything together is pretty standard around here for any circuit you abandon.
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Jul 17, 2022 14:26
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Barry Soteriology posted:The previous owner of the home I live in used what appears to be romex to run landscape uplighting for some trees. Like just romex, no conduit of any kind. It's just buried in the soil, shallow enough that it pops through the surface in spots. It hasn't been an issue so far. I would continue to just let it roll, but I am considering doing some digging around the trees. What is the minimum safe way to address this? Trace it to the panel, shut it off, chop and cap the romex off and dig? Take a picture in case you're mis-reading low voltage wire and assuming it's romex/120v. Otherwise yeah it's a complete re-do to properly bury it, conduit, gfci it, etc. If it's mains voltage yolo'd across the yard: Motronic posted:I would suggest that you find it at the panel - hopefully it's on one breaker - or at whatever junction it's on, disconnect it from there and twist all the wires together. Do the same thing at the other side(s), then turn the breaker back on. This ensure that not only isn't it hooked up anywhere (breaker would pop) but nobody is goin to successfully hook it back up and have a live circuit hanging on out there later on. Twisting everything together is pretty standard around here for any circuit you abandon.
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Jul 17, 2022 15:38
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I took a closer look, and it looks like romex to my untrained eye. There was a UL tag on it close to one of the lights. It was pretty worn, but it did read "for outdoor use." So maybe it is UF? Either way, making it safe at the house sounds doable. Unfortunately, I don't know where it terminates. You would think it stops at the last light fixture, but there is a bit of it popping through the soil at the edge of the property. Maybe 10, 12 yards from the closest light. From the way it is oriented, it looks like it runs under the fence to only God knows where and for what. If I should wait until I can get a pro to look at it, I think/hope it will be ok. For the most part, where it pops up through the soil, it isn't at high risk of getting damaged, at least by me mowing or gardening around it.
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Jul 17, 2022 17:07
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Do you have a multimeter (and know how to use it) and can get one of the lights open? It'd be easy enough then to tell if you're working low voltage or mains. Hell the fixture itself is probably marked.
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Jul 17, 2022 17:12
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I do have a multimeter somewhere, gotta find it. The light may be marked, I just never bothered to get close enough to inspect it. It does look easy enough to open though.
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Jul 17, 2022 17:23
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Barry Soteriology posted:I took a closer look, and it looks like romex to my untrained eye. There was a UL tag on it close to one of the lights. It was pretty worn, but it did read "for outdoor use." So maybe it is UF? Specifics matter, the default safest is to unhook it as Motronic described, but if it's low voltage it's way safer to yolo it. It can be UL rated for low voltage outdoor wet rated blah blah blah as well.
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Jul 17, 2022 17:39
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 I pulled out my dead dishwasher (I suspect mice ate the hoses) and found that it used these wires for power. A friend gifted me her old dishwasher, but it uses a wall plug. Should I 1) rewire my wall line to accept wall plugs, or 2) can I get away with tucking away the wall line and plugging the dishwasher into the same outlet as the disposal? (Gonna also lay out some rat poison and foam up the wall)
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Jul 19, 2022 21:34
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PBCrunch posted:I'm trying to install a smart (wifi) fan controller and light dimmer in my bedroom. The electric box is a single-gang unit and so is the controller. But the controller is kind of bulky. And there are a lot of wires in the box. One three-wire Romex feed, two different three-wire Romex wire bundles going out for wall boxes, plus the four-wire Romex bundle going to the fan and light in the ceiling. I'm not aware of a deep "side saddle" type box. I would cut out a double wide opening and get a centering plate like https://www.kyleswitchplates.com/1-decora-rocker-switch-covers-2-gang-center-mount/. I don't know anything about the site, just the first place I found one via google. A second option here is a double gang decora plate with a blanking plate on one side. Just as a side note, when you're talking about number of wires in a romex cable, you ignore the ground. So I'm guessing when you say three wire you mean two (black and white plus ground) and four wire you mean three (black, red, white plus ground). Doesn't really matter here, but might save confusion in the future.
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Jul 19, 2022 21:47
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Steve Yun posted:
Don't use rat poison please. Use snap traps or electro death chambers. I don't have an answer on the wiring.
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Jul 20, 2022 00:05
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H110Hawk posted:I don't have an answer on the wiring. If there's room/enough depth to surface mount a box in the back that's what should happen. Put in a single outlet dedicated to the dishwasher. The rest of that circuit may or may not be correct/to code, but an individual outlet on one single circuit (potentially with an accessible switch to turn the outlet on and off if you're in a weird jurisdiction) is the most correct way to power a new dishwasher.
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Jul 20, 2022 00:34
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Motronic posted:If there's room/enough depth to surface mount a box in the back that's what should happen. Put in a single outlet dedicated to the dishwasher. what i've always done when given the chance is wire the outlet in an adjacent cabinet, usually under the sink, and then just cut a hole to poke the dishwasher cord through so it's ~readily accessible~. you usually want power under there for a garbage disposal anyway. by code a dishwasher has to be on a GFCI circuit so if it's a dedicated line and you flushmounted it in the same bay, you either gotta put in a GFCI breaker or rip the dishwasher out to get to the reset button on the outlet should it ever trip
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Jul 20, 2022 01:07
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Steve Yun posted:
Most dishwashers can also just be modified to be hardwired. It's usually as easy as removing the plug and installing the wire. But definitely check the manual before you go screwing with it. Make sure to replace that supply line while you're at it. I'd poke at the bottom of that drywall too, it looks pretty water damaged. A quick coat of paint or primer would also help seal things up a bit.
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Jul 20, 2022 01:28
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Extant Artiodactyl posted:what i've always done when given the chance is wire the outlet in an adjacent cabinet, usually under the sink, and then just cut a hole to poke the dishwasher cord through so it's ~readily accessible~. you usually want power under there for a garbage disposal anyway. by code a dishwasher has to be on a GFCI circuit so if it's a dedicated line and you flushmounted it in the same bay, you either gotta put in a GFCI breaker or rip the dishwasher out to get to the reset button on the outlet should it ever trip Location wise: yes, this is what I prefer to do. Based on that picture I was going with the simplest. Also, no, don't use a GFCI outlet. It already needs to be on a dedicated circuit so just use a GFCI breaker.
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Jul 20, 2022 01:55
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 The conduit tube is pretty stuck where it comes out of the wall. I tried shoving it back in but it won’t move. It seems like I’d have to dig out a bunch of drywall to get it behind the wall, so for now I’m not going to bother. The tester says it’s open ground. Would a steel box do as a ground if I wired the ground connector on the outlet to it?
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Jul 20, 2022 03:08
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Steve Yun posted:The conduit tube is pretty stuck where it comes out of the wall. I tried shoving it back in but it won’t move. It seems like I’d have to dig out a bunch of drywall to get it behind the wall, so for now I’m not going to bother. The tester says it’s open ground. Would a steel box do as a ground if I wired the ground connector on the outlet to it? That doesn't look like conduit. It looks like "MC" (metal clad wire). Without any relevant information this wire could have a ground in it, it could be old enough to use the jacket as ground. Your home may be old enough that this is a thing. It's not a safe thing, it's not the way I would do it, but it may be grandfathered under the code it was built. Nobody here can possibly know that. In general, you would ground the shielding/conduit to the box you installed and to any ground(s) in there. This is again me pretending nothing other than the picture you posted exists in your house.
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Jul 20, 2022 04:00
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Sounds about right. The MC wire went into a box attached to the bottom of the old dishwasher that had a green screw and a wire attached to it Thanks!
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Jul 20, 2022 04:32
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Barry Soteriology posted:Either way, making it safe at the house sounds doable. Unfortunately, I don't know where it terminates. You would think it stops at the last light fixture, but there is a bit of it popping through the soil at the edge of the property. Maybe 10, 12 yards from the closest light. From the way it is oriented, it looks like it runs under the fence to only God knows where and for what. Was there a flagpole there at one point? Maybe an address on a fence that a light may have been shining on? Mailbox nearby? Not an electrician, but I've all of those pretty frequently as a delivery driver.
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Jul 20, 2022 11:48
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STR posted:Was there a flagpole there at one point? Maybe an address on a fence that a light may have been shining on? Mailbox nearby? Unfortunately, this is at the rear of the property, so the only thing behind the fence is maybe 10 ft of trees dropping off into a small creek/drainage. Those are good guesses tho. Maybe a tall birdhouse with a light? I know where the multimeter is. I need to refresh myself on using it. It's also hot af outside.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:19
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I have a fuse question. My mom came over and power washed, and briefly hooked it up to my garage. She called and said my garage doors won’t work. Other stuff in my garage did so I assume it was a blown fuse. What was in my two normal fuses were a 20A TL and a 25A TL. The 20A looked smoky so I assumed it was the one that blew. I’d bought the same amperage but type T fuses. They physically wouldn’t fit (too small) so I did some quick research. I can’t find anywhere saying TL are physically bigger than T. Are they? And second, can I just use a 20A fuse from the pack I’ll buy in the 25A if it ever blows? It seems hard to find 25A TL fuses near me and I don’t even know what that fuse goes to in the garage, let alone that I’d use anything that’d require the amperage
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Jul 21, 2022 02:27
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