Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Zapato posted:

I have a quick question. My living room has a 2 way switch circuit (2 switches SPDT that control 1 circuit). The switches are about 8-10 feet apart on the same wall. Unfortunately, they control every outlet in the room, which means that if we turn off the lights with the switch we also turn off the TiVo. I'd like to take all of the outlets except the one the lamp is on OFF of the switch circuit. Is this possible without ripping the wall open?

Yes it is, and it is actually quite simple. You'll just need to take the black wire to the outlet off of the switch and pigtail it to the line (incoming power). Probably your line is directly connected to the switch too, so you'll need to put it in that pigtail along with a small jump back to the switch.

quote:

How much of all this work am I likely to need a permit/inspection for?

All of it. If you are asking what you can realistically skimp on, the panel upgrade is a definite permit / inspection and then probably the subpanel, since those need the inspection stickers on them if you are ever planning on selling and getting past inspection - at least in Kentucky they do. I'd recommend pulling a permit for everything and getting it inspected anyway, though - not only will you be 100% compliant, you're paying for them to come out anyway, right? Get your money's worth!

# ¿ Mar 6, 2009 16:33

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 11:50

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

chryst posted:

Thanks, that's what I figured. My issue with pulling permits is that I worry some inspector will refuse to certify my new work if they come across older stuff that's not up to code. For instance, there are some wires going into junctions just tossed around the attic right now. Nothing's stapled up like it should be. I don't really know how the permit/inspection process works. The place was built in the 50's tho, so nothing's up to current code.

Aside from that tho, my plan does sound reasonable, right? Running the sub panel's a better idea than a bundle of several wires?

I haven't had to deal with your first issue, but I believe that anything connected to the new/upgraded panel will have to be brought up to current code. Based on that, it may be simpler to get a second service - someone smarter than me and/or with experience dealing with that scenario can probably comment on this one, though.

For your other question, yes and no. Yes, running one wire is simpler than a bundle, but you'll need much thicker wire depending on what service you rin to the panel (I believe #4 for 60 amp and 3 #2 wires plus ground for 100 amp), and those are much less flexible and more unwieldy than #12 (for 20 amp) or #14 (15 amp). So it really depends on what you have to go through.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2009 17:23

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

I did my first basement with steel studs and there were holes predrilled into them. Then you just bought grommets to hold the wire in the holes without coming into contact with the studs. Here's an example, but I just bought them at home Depot and they were cheap.

Edit: It was 6 or 7 years ago, but I think they were the ESG1 grommets.

let it mellow fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 6, 2009

# ¿ Mar 6, 2009 19:44

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

You're over complicating it. The red wire makes another run unnecessary, and then you just need to either replace the switch box with a double gang one or just buy one of these.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2009 19:14

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Nnep posted:

What did i do?

What happens when you flip the breaker back on? Does it immediately trip, only trip after you turn that light on, etc?

# ¿ Mar 26, 2009 13:27

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Have you checked to see if they are wired to outlets? Just carry a lamp around. Once you've mapped out what is connected to what, then you can decide if it is worth rewiring or not. As far as how hard it is, that depends on what you want to do. Swapping out outlets or switches is easy, running a new wire in an old construction situation is harder.

As far as your bathroom fan goes, can you get in the attic to see where it is? Possibly a previous owner put drywall over it or something equally dumb.

I wouldn't recommend hiring an electrician at this point. Just work out what is connected where and then decide what you want to do. Then post back here!

# ¿ Apr 3, 2009 12:44

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Vinlaen posted:

I have access to the basement underneath the room I want to add outlets and I've already run some cat 5 wires through the floor so that shouldn't be a problem.

I also don't think there is insulation in the wall.

However, don't outlet boxes need to be attached to a stud or something like that? If so, how do you attach the box because you will only have a little hole exposed for the outlet itself, right? (plus the cover of course)

Nope, use old work boxes.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2009 17:39

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

chryst posted:

Every time I've tried to install an old-work box, the drywall wouldn't hold it, and just crumbled around the clamps. That link has some tips that might help next time though, so thanks for it.

If you have particularly old / crumbly drywall, you can use a could of 1/4" or 1/2" inch strips of plywood cut about 8 inches long and maybe an inch wide. Put them horizontally at the top and bottom of your cutout and secure them to the drywall with drywall screws. This will allow the clamps to go against that plywood instead of the drywall - it will require some extremely easy mudding and sanding to cover the screws of course.

Let me know if I didn't describe that very well and I'll try an MS Paint or something of what I mean.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2009 19:14

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Have you tried plugging anything else into the GFCI to see if that trips it too? Or running your lamp plug (with an extension cord or something) into another GFCI to see if it trips that one?

Something similar happened to a garage GFCI of mine and the solution was receptacle replacement. I didn't have an underground line coming from it or anything, it just started tripping every time I fired up my miter saw, drill, or anything else that I plugged into it.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2009 20:55

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

bgack posted:

thanks bep, this is helpful info. I'm not sure I follow the 'as long as you are pulling wire up to the fan' with wiring the outlet to always be on. I guess I will see how it's wired when I demo the old vanity, but I think the only wire running to the old vanity is coming from the switch. So I'd have to run a separate hot wire down (or up?) to the new outlet. I didn't know GFCI outlets could be finicky with on/off power but obviously I'd rather have it be on all the time.

Thing is, you are going to rewire the switch anyway, why not do the outlet right? It won't take any additional effort, it is just a matter of where you tie in the outlet. After all, you will have a hot and neutral coming into the switch, so just tie in the outlet there and be done with it.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2009 21:24

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

grover posted:

YES! Also, take lots of photos of what's inside the walls before the drywall goes up. You will thank yourself later.

You know a lot more code than I do, but aren't junction boxes required to be accessible? I didn't think you could just drywall over one.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2010 18:22

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

grover posted:

GFCI, as a general rule, are required ... basement.

Arg, how long has that been the case? In 2006, I just put GFCI in my walkout basement bathroom circuit, on the wet bar circuit, on the sump pump, and on the circuit going outside. The rest of my basement circuits are not GFCI and, even worse, the lighting circuits don't have receptacles on them, so I'd have to do it on the breaker. Hopefully GFCI twin breakers exist.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2011 22:16

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

kid sinister posted:

Anyway, the code is that only receptacles, not lights, in unfinished basements need to be GFCI protected.

That's good, I was wondering how I missed that requirement. It wouldn't have been hard to protect all my receptacle runs, although it would have been irritating, but the lights would have really sucked.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2011 02:01

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Airports already have banks of USB ports in their charging stations, but those aren't individual face plates like this.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2011 21:21

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Socratic Moron posted:

I'm installing a ceiling fan. The wiring:

House:
Green
Red
Black
White

Fan:
Green
Blue
Black
White

I'm installing without a remote so it says to connect the blue and black to the black on house, no prob. Green to green, no prob. White to white, no prob. But what should I do with the red from the house?

Thanks!

That's probably there for if you had a fan/light combo that could be turned on and off independently. Open up the corresponding switch to see. It could also be a three way switch, though, which is why you need to check. If it is, there are a couple possibilities for how it is wired:

http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/courses/p230/switches/3way/variations.html

# ¿ Dec 2, 2011 20:37

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Maybe the two unlabeled are for setting up a chain of fixtures with separate hot terminals for in and out? why that would be required I have no idea, but that's the only suggestion I have.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2012 02:05

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Could you wire in a dimmer or ceiling fan speed control switch to control the speed of the other fan?

# ¿ Feb 4, 2012 22:58

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

I would never reuse it because I am lazy and just buy wire, but I don't really see the harm here. If the house was built in 96, the exterior light is presumably going to a GFI outlet or (not likely based on 96) a GFCI breaker. Either way, a fault in the wire would have been detected and constantly tripping the GFI.

Since it isn't, what harm will running a few extra bulbs do?

# ¿ Apr 5, 2012 02:46

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

grover posted:

Moisture and corrosive conditions underground degrade the cable and the insulation. It might have been degraded, but not yet broken; pulling it up, bending it, etc, can cause further damage to the degraded insulation, causing cracks and breaks that could create a high-impedance short circuit of the type that will *not* trip a GFCI and not cause enough current to trip a breaker, but still cause enough current to start a fire. Corrosion inside the jacket can reduce the wire diameter and lead to overheating before the breaker trips, again, risking a fire. It's just not worth the risk.

According to UL, if NM-B cable has been subject to these conditions, even for short periods of time, it "should be replaced without question".

And there we have it! Ignore my comment and run with the other three.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2012 02:59

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

What's the reasoning behind metal conduit to the afci outlet? I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but I'm struggling to figure it out.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2012 02:04

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

There is another option, but I've always just used washers to prevent me from over tightening the faceplate screws too.

# ¿ May 9, 2012 16:39

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Oxford Comma posted:

One of the prongs on the power cord of my wife's vacuum just broke off. Is there anyway to salvage the vacuum?

Yep! Just cut off the broken plug, strip a bit of the wire off and attach this. Problem solved.

e: ^^^^^^^ beaten

# ¿ Jun 6, 2012 15:54

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 11:50

let it mellow: Jun 1, 2000; Dinosaur Gum

Bad Munki posted:

Tell me about cracking open my breaker panel and adding an entirely new circuit. I've never done such a thing before, so I'm not really sure if this is something I should be doing, or if I'd be better off just paying someone to come in and do it for me, or if it maybe even needs to have a permit to go with the work.

What I want to do: I use my garage as a shop, and a lot of my tools need at least 20A service. I would like to have 30A service around the perimeter of said garage, and while brainstorming last night, I spotted a REALLY easy path to do so, so now I'm wanting that to happen sooner rather than later. Currently, there's just a single 15A breaker, which is the same as my last home, and I practically wore that thing out from constantly tripping it. So yeah, want to add a new line to the breaker panel.

And once that's done, what wire should I use to actually make the run to the shop?

It isn't hard - you basically run the line, cut power to the box, take its cover off, stick the line through an existing cable clamp (or open a new knockout if you don't have room, in which case you'll need to buy a cable clamp too), then snap the breaker into place. From there, attach the black wire to the breaker and the white / ground wires to the bus on the side.

10 gauge wire is needed for 30A service and make sure you buy a breaker compatible with your box.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2012 16:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!