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The first thing to do would be to turn off the power, unscrew an outlet from its box and peek inside with a flashlight. Hope against hope that it has a grounding wire. In old homes with steel outlet boxes with a ground, they sometimes liked to ground the box itself by bending the wire back where it would get clamped down by screwing down the wire clamp. You're right, no ground = no surge protection. The same goes for UPSs, their surge protectors built in would offer no protection without a ground. Now you could use a GFCI to protect your 3-prong devices. However, they're expensive and they're notoriously overly sensitive, i.e. they would trip under normal use. You would also need to put the "not a grounding outlet" sticker on the outlets to be up to code.
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Mar 10, 2009 03:14
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grover posted:Nah, they're not overly sensitive at all, and not all that expensive, either! Unless by "overly sensitive" you mean "it trips whenever I get even a tiny shock." They must've gotten better at the false positive trips than I remember. Still, I call 10x the cost of a regular outlet "expensive". Could you give a link or example of a line-neutral surge suppressor? I've never seen one before.
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Mar 13, 2009 17:35
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chryst posted:How do you guys manage to fish wires through such tiny little gaps? I'm trying to follow the paths of existing lines, and it's like they were originally fished around all kinds of crazy angles and through tiny little spaces between rafters. Even when I do manage it, the wire's casing is all torn up half the time. Well, when wire is put in, there usually isn't drywall already up, so you can use your hands to pull wire through several studs and joists at a time. Don't try to pull the entire length of a cable run in one go, you're just asking for trouble. Instead, break it down to something like "pull enough slack thru these 3 joists, then turn the corner, pull enough up the wall and through these 2 studs..." grover posted:Make sure the terminals on the GFCI are rated for Al and Cu (most are, but check the box to make sure.) If they're not, you'll need to get fittings that are, and put on a short copper pigtail. Be careful not to break the Al, it cracks easier than Cu does. Isn't there all kinds of code for pigtailing copper to aluminum, or more specifically you need special connectors to connect them and tools to put them on? grover posted:You can buy special replacement screws in colors to match your covers; I'm not sure what size off-hand. Aren't faceplate screws also 6-32? Grover's right, they come in all kinds of finishes and paint colors. Just tell the guy at the hardware store that you need faceplate screws, and he should know which drawer to pull for you. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Mar 16, 2009 |
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Mar 16, 2009 22:12
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They make spacers just for that purpose. You might need longer screws though, #6-32. If the drywall is too screwed up, you could always to an oversized plate.
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Apr 8, 2009 04:24
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Local Yokel posted:Fantastic! Spacers for between the switch & box, spacers for between the switch and drywall, or spacers for between one switch and the next? I assume the first, and should I just look near where they keep the outlets, switchplates, etc? Spacers for between the switch & box. They have a hole in the middle, which you're supposed to fit the screw in. You might need longer screws depending on the depth. Look in the hardware store by where they keep the wire nuts and crimping supplies. Here's ones I've used: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100194939 edit: it's kind of hard to tell from the picture, but they're made of soft rubber that you can fold back on itself. Each block has nubs on one side and holes on the other so you can stack them together like Legos. Once you got a long enough stack, cut off the excess. I put the end of the stack with the nubs facing the outlet box so I could tighten down the outlet so the nubs wouldn't get in the way of tightening down the outlet. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Apr 8, 2009 |
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Apr 8, 2009 16:32
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Here: Uhh, that light is the "protected" light... It's supposed to be on. It only goes off if the GFCI is shorted or you pressed the Test button... You can also tell if the GFCI is working or tripped by the Reset button itself, in = protected, out = tripped.
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Apr 9, 2009 23:53
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In that case, unscrew that branch circuit from the back of the GFCI and leave it detached with electrical tape around the ends for the time being. Leave the feeder line hooked up to the GFCI and see if it comes on and will test/reset properly. If it does, then you have a short somewhere on that branch circuit.
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Apr 10, 2009 02:19
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grover posted:No, in most of them, the light means it's tripped. If it's hooked up backwards, it's usually pretty obvious. Hmm, it would seem I got the crazy exceptions in my place... stupid Leviton. The more you know! Local Yokel posted:How about ceiling fans? I've seen some switches that have the switch for the light, and a tiny little slider for the fan speed. That sounds like an awesome idea, but can I replace my current switch with one of those, or do I have to plan that out ahead of time when wiring the system? Right now, there are two switches to turn the fan and light on, and the only way to adjust the speed of the fan is with the pull chain that is on the fan itself. That depends on a couple things. You can have variable fan speed as well as light level. If you have 2 separate switches for your ceiling fan and is light, then you should have 14/3 or 12/3 wire going to from your switchbox to your fan, which most of those fancypants switches require. Try taking off the wallplate for those 2 switches and see if you spot a red wire inside attached to one of those switches. If you do, then you got 3-wire. Here's one more thing to keep in mind. I'm assuming your 2 switches for that fan are two separate 1-gang switches in a 2-gang wall box, right? Most of those fancypants fan-speed-with-light-dimmer switches are 1-gang, so if you got one of them and put it in your box, then you'd have to fill that other spot in the box with a blank cover. You could always get a fancypants fan-speed-only switch however, then put in a dimmer for the light beside it though... edit: Don't be cheap and use a dimmer for the fan speed control! You're asking for a fire/trouble in general. Some of the fan controls look very much like a dimmer, so pay attention! Also don't use a regular dimmer if you plan on using CFLs in its light sockets, as with any fluorescents. Also if you put the fan and lights on adjustable controls, you might want to remove the chain extensions, then cut back the chains to about an inch long from their switch bushings just so nobody fucks with them since those controls are at the wall switch now. edit2: I found a pretty good overview here. It covers other situations that I didn't like wireless remotes and infinitely variable speed controls. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Apr 10, 2009 |
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Apr 10, 2009 04:23
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Local Yokel posted:I guess that means that the switches are either giving power to the light & fan, or they are not giving power to the light & fan. Not necessarily... I was thinking that you had 1 switch to turn on the fan and another to turn on its light. Still, you might not be out of luck! You currently have 3 way switches on either side of the room to turn on that fan. Well, 3 way switches use... 3 way wiring. There are a handful of ways to hook up 3 way switches to control a single device, a couple of which run 3-wire to that device's box. In other words, you might be able to re-purpose your existing wiring to control with a fan speed switch. Unfortunately, the wiring diagrams for those all those methods makes my head spin. You would need to do some testing to see which method you currently have. The only way to determine if you have 3-wire in the ceiling fan's electrical box would be to take the fan down and look for that red wire in its box. I did a little googling and there are a few 3-way fan speed switches made. Apparently you can turn the fan on/off from either end, but you control the fan speed from one only end. If all else fails, some ceiling fan manufacturers make specialized switch/receiver combos to operate ceiling fans with fewer wires. The receivers are designed to be small enough to be hidden by the fan's canopy. You might have to stick with the same manufacturer for your fan and switch to guarantee the receiver would fit.
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Apr 12, 2009 17:24
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Morkai posted:I am not, however, knowledgeable about the codes and rules of home power distribution. Go to the library and look up the National Electric Code. Nearly every city/county/whatever in the US uses this. They update it every 3 years, the most recent edition is 2008. As for your one circuit per room idea, you're assuming that every room will require one whole circuit. There's rooms like bathrooms and closets whose power needs aren't high enough to require their own distinct circuit. It just isn't cost effective to put rooms like these on separate circuits, running a longer length of romex back to the breaker box instead of to the adjacent room. You'd probably run out of space for breakers in your box before you could pull this off. As for your conduit question, what size is it? Does it have enough space to run 2 lengths of 12/2? There is actually code on this. In how good of shape is it? Does it leak? Just try to keep in mind where you'd run pipes and cabling for that on-demand heater and floor, so you won't in the future have to plan around the work you're doing now. You might want to keep a breaker or two open in your box for it. There's no code that disposals need to be hardwired. In fact, it's actually easier because when a disposal does clog, it's easier to then remove from the sink to take it apart and clear the clog. Still, some inspectors seem to like hardwired disposals for some reason. Here's the best thing you can do to pass inspection and NOT burn down your house: do your work to code! Unfortunately for the average person, the NEC codebook reads like a law book. That's why people need to train to do this for a living.
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Apr 15, 2009 00:21
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Morkai posted:I have a breaker that controls just one receptacle in the cellar, with nothing plugged into that. It's insane. That's most likely there for a deep freezer.
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Apr 15, 2009 04:42
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Vinlaen posted:How can I install an additional outlet in a finished house? Installing additional outlets to an existing room can be done, how easy it will be depends on your home's construction. What kind of unfinished spaces does this room have nearby (basement, attic, utility room) where it would be easy to run wires? Is the wall that you want to put the outlets in filled with insulation?
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Apr 29, 2009 15:25
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Vinlaen posted:I have access to the basement underneath the room I want to add outlets and I've already run some cat 5 wires through the floor so that shouldn't be a problem. Like several people recommended, use those old work boxes. They have lips on the front and wings in the back that clamp onto the wall when screwed down. First, measure how far off your outlets are from the floor so the new ones will match. Old work boxes need larger drywall hole sizes than your existing "new" work boxes however. Since you're matching existing outlets however, you can cheat a little. Measure from the floor to the central screw of an outlet, then center your new box on that measurement. Second, get a stud finder and go to where you want to put an outlet. Find out where your studs are, find the gap in between and make your hole. Make your hole as small as possible while still allowing the wings to flip out in the back. If you make it too large, the box might not stay in properly and you might need to patch that hole and try again. Don't put in the box yet! Third, you need to drill the hole. There's 2 ways to do this. The easy way is they make long drill bits with flexible shafts that you stick into the hole you just made at a downward angle. Drill down thru the floor. Leave the drill bit poking out, it will be easier to find your hole in the basement this way. The hard way is to use a regular drill bit and drill up from the basement into the wall cavity. You'll need to do a shitload of measuring to pull this one off and can very easily gently caress up and drill into your living space and not inside the wall, but it might be possible. If this is an exterior wall, you might have some trouble fitting your drill and bit in the gap between the floor and the foundation wall. Keep a lookout for a line of nails where the bottom board for that wall was nailed into the floor. Fourth, run your romex from the basement up that drill hole and out wall hole. This is why you don't put the box in yet: so you can reach your hand in the hole and find the cable. Feed the romex into the hole on the box, then mount the box in the hole. From here out, it's like hooking up any other outlet. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Apr 29, 2009 |
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Apr 29, 2009 20:27
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Atrus posted:How possible/smart/stupid is it to convert a ceiling light figure to a plug-in? "Possible"... Technically, yes. Define "apartment". The landlord might not be very keen on you cutting up his ceiling and wiring.
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May 25, 2009 06:08
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grover posted:If you want a technicality that's 100% IAW NEC and legal, there are many ceiling-mounted lamps designed with a long cord and plug. My grandparents had one in their kitchen. Oh yeah, I forgot about swag lamps... Atrus, do this.
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May 25, 2009 15:12
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tuzalu posted:Could I run another wire from this box to the location of my new receptacle? Either or should be fine. You wouldn't need to "replace" that box with a junction box, just remove the receptacle and pigtails from it and put a blank plate over it. The only real limit on whether you need to is how much stuff you can safely cram into that one outlet box. That one box would have to hold 3 lines coming into it, all the wires appropriately twisted together, 3 pigtails, 3 wire nuts, and a receptacle. You can remove the receptacle and 3 pigtails to gain some more room, but that's all.
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May 26, 2009 18:50
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Could we get a diagram of your circuit?
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Jun 25, 2009 17:50
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IsaacNewton posted:Can the grounding rod be exposed to the element? Uhh, the very name for that object should answer your question... In other words, yes, you can put the grounding rod outside. Just make sure it's at least 6' away from any other grounding rod.
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Jul 15, 2009 22:09
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IsaacNewton posted:How so? I'm concerned about the bare copper wire corroding away in the rain. Copper doesn't behave like iron/steel when it oxidizes, it's actually pretty stable once it does. The Statue of Liberty is still there, and she's been exposed to the elements for 123 years now.
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Jul 15, 2009 22:25
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ChesterJT posted:GFI outlets: I understand these to be like #1 on a chain so if something surges or whatever it will pop it thus saving everything down the line? Should there be more than one in a house my size? My home inspector seemed to think there would just be one in the house. I saw someone mention earlier they are just used around water and such, so the only outlets aligned with it would be the bathrooms, kitchen, and garage? How can I tell exactly which outlets are on it? Just do the test button and see which outlets don't work? The purpose of GFCIs is to protect the user and immediately connected devices from electrical surges. Their most common usage is in wet areas to protect against shorts caused by liquids, i.e. in the bathroom, kitchen, garage, washer/dryer, etc. As such, you need at least one on every circuit in a wet area that has receptacles. One GFCI can protect several other devices daisy chained off of it, which is nice because GFCIs cost ~$10 apiece while an outlet costs ~50 cents. Replacing every single outlet in a wet area with a GFCI would get expensive real quick... You got the right idea for finding daisy chained outlets.
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Jul 21, 2009 05:52
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mr.belowaverage posted:I have a really basic and maybe very stupid question: Yeah pretty much you got the easiest way to do it. You could get a bit more technical and pigtail off a branch or two for some boxes if it's possible to save a little copper, or boxes that would be the first in the series that you just can't easily reach from the basement (plumbing/HVAC in the way). Instead you would just wire from the second box to the panel, then pigtail off a branch from that second box to the first one.
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Aug 12, 2009 17:40
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mr.belowaverage posted:You're describing some kind of Y-branch where power goes to box #2, and then one way to logical box #1 and the other way to #'s 3-through-N. How would I connect that? I see one cable coming into the box, one cable going to each of two branches, and a pigtail for the device itself. Isn't that too many conductors for regular boxes? How would I handle that? That depends entirely on how deep your boxes are, which in turn can depend on how thick your walls are.
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Aug 13, 2009 02:23
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RedReverend posted:Here's one I can't explain. My wife rented a carpet shampooer which only works on one receptacle. She asked me if I was loving with the panel as none of the receptacles in the living room worked. I checked them with my voltmeter and they were reading hot. The entire circuit in that room is fine, but for some reason, the shampooer won't run. Plug anything else into the receptacles and it works fine. Try bending around on the plug prongs? Maybe it isn't making good contact.
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Aug 15, 2009 08:59
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Ferris Bueller posted:funny yet dangerous pics I can't remember the site, but there is some forum for inspectors on the interwebs that was just full of pictures of awful wiring jobs just like these. My favorite one was somebody finished their basement and built a shower with the fuse box in it. Does anybody know the site I'm talking about? edit: found it! http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/4/1/Violation_Photo_Forum edit2: the picture in question: 
kid sinister fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Aug 15, 2009 |
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Aug 15, 2009 18:44
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Pympede posted:I have a switch connected to the outlet my TV plugs into, and I want to disconnect it. i removed the cover and looked at the switch, its a simple decora switch with a red and black going to it. Do I undo these and wirenut them together, or undo them and electrical tape them apart? Wait a minute, if that switch has red and black connected to it, is it a 3-way switch?
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Aug 20, 2009 23:00
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Turn off breaker, remove wires from switch, wire nut together, install blank cover. Precisely two wires, right? Assumedly, the white runs on through. Check the outlet; if the top has a black and the bottom a red, then the top is constant hot and the bottom is switched. This is known as "half-switched" and is fairly common for outlets. You can also look to see if the metal tabs on either side of the outlet that connect the two screw plates have been pried off. Also if this is the case, just plug your TV into the other outlet!
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Aug 20, 2009 23:32
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grover posted:You can't run NM-B (romex) through underground conduit; anything underground is considered to be "wet" and you can safely assume it will will with water (even if ostensibly watertight and with both ends above ground) and plan accordingly. You can use UF (essentially waterproof romex), but UF and romex aren't designed to be pulled through conduit and you might have quite a struggle on your hands. Individial THWN wires or something else along that line is what professional electricians usually use inside conduit. They also make direct burial CAT5...
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Oct 17, 2009 00:03
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Dragyn posted:I've decided to use direct burial power, coax wrapped in a rubber insulating tube and standard cat5 UTP in rubber tubing. What about plain old fish tape for pulling cable?
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Oct 20, 2009 01:57
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Red, if you really, really want to futureproof, then put in media jacks with conduit to them. That way you don't have to tear open the walls in your living space anymore to run any cables in the future. Proper structured cabling would run all those conduits back to one central location (expensive), but you can get by cheaper just running them to non-living space, like an attic or basement.
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Oct 21, 2009 20:22
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insanity74 posted:Are you saying that you plan to use a ganged switch box to support a light? Wow, they make ceiling fan boxes for old work? You'd imagine that with all the vibration from the fan, it'd crumble the drywall it's holding onto would crumble to dust after awhile.
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Oct 28, 2009 16:16
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Standard warnings apply, with the addition of the new warning about there being enough energy available to set all your clothes on fire instantly should something go wrong, and possibly enough energy available to explode several hundred grams of copper into molten spheres traveling just subsonic right into your face. By the way, if any of this actually happens, take pictures and post them.
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Nov 3, 2009 18:32
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dyne posted:Can you guys tell me if the plan for my bathroom is ok code-wise before I get started? Here's a diagram of what I plan on doing: First off, your MSPaint penmanship is atrocious. Second, you only need 1 GFCI in this instance and you'll save yourself a few bucks. GFCIs have screw down terminals on them that you can use to connect to further regular outlets down the line and protect them as well, provided you stick the "GFCI protected" sticker on them. Third, skip that extra junction box and just run the romex to one of your boxes in the picture, then run it from there to the other box. A 2-gang box should be plenty deep for all the wiring you'll be shoving into the first box, but you may want to spend a few cents extra and get a deeper one.
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Nov 9, 2009 00:38
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Smiling Jack posted:Staggeringly basic electrical questions: Yeah you should be able to, unless you're living somewhere where local building codes prohibit you from doing your own work. GFCIs can be swapped on a per-circuit basis to compensate in some ways for short protection. Basically, you put it in place of the first outlet on each circuit, then daisy chain the rest of that circuit off of the protected connections on that GFCI. While GFCI receptacles do have the grounding prongs on their faces, they still will not offer grounding protection in this instance, they merely interrupt the circuit if a short occurs. Also, things that need dedicated ground prongs to function properly like surge protectors still won't work right in the event of a surge. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jan 21, 2010 |
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Jan 20, 2010 21:16
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Smiling Jack posted:Yeah, I was advised by an aquaintance that I could just "add in those GCI or whatever" outlets. It didn't make much sense, but I thought I'd check. Too good to be true. Are you sure? Did you use a circuit tester and test for a circuit between the smaller prong and the ground?
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Jan 20, 2010 21:29
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Smiling Jack posted:The home inspector did, and I specifically asked if it was grounded properly. Hmm, that's strange, it's possible your outlets might already be grounded... Up for a test? Get another circuit tester and take the faceplate off a 2-prong outlet. Test for a circuit between the short prong and the metal outlet box. You might want to cut around the faceplate with a utility knife first, people in the old days just LOVED to paint over outlets. As a result, most 1954 faceplates have about 5 layers of paint on them, effectively gluing them to the wall. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 20, 2010 |
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Jan 20, 2010 21:37
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, but the others were grounded. Got that one outlet fixed before closing. The rest of the house is a mix of non-grounded 3-prong and 2-prong outlets.
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grover posted:Speaking of which, plug adapters are unsafe and illegal and nobody should ever use them and I don't know how people can still legally sell them, so if you have any, stop using them! I thought the issue was that they're not illegal per se, just against code... The only reason they can be legally sold is because UL signed off on them?
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Jan 21, 2010 00:29
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Socratic Moron posted:In areas with water, do other fixtures have to be special as well? For example, in a bathroom, does the light socket (you screw a bulb into) in the shower have to be something other than the $2.00 home depot special? Nope, feel free to cheap out. I can't say that I've ever seen a GFCI light fixture... Hair dryers all have GFCI plugs, that's about the closest you'll get to a GFCI appliance.
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Jan 25, 2010 06:26
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Is it the pedestal kind? Because that style of sump pump isn't water tight...
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Mar 4, 2010 21:57
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Kaluza-Klein posted:I hope this is a good place to ask this. . . Use one of these: http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=65-224 They sell a kit at Home Depot for $50 that has a 1/2" flexible drill bit along with a handle of sorts for guiding the bit in the wall a little more easily, and also some attachments to attach to the bit tip for pulling the cable back through the once you've drilled all the way through. I would use an old work low voltage box and cut the hole it into your wall first, that will give you a big enough hole to more easily maneuver the bit inside the wall.
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Mar 26, 2010 01:04
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), or use a very long and flexible attachment to drill from the work box hole.
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grover posted:you can't use an extension cord to replace permanent wiring. You know, I've always wondered about that. How are things like power strips and surge suppressors up to code, since technically they're 'extending' plugs from actual receptacles?
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Apr 5, 2010 22:41
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