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For the record, I've seen some pretty crappy paint jobs on panels, some of which were a bitch to work with. Don't effectively glue the panel door shut, or keep the latch or hinges from opening properly.
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Apr 8, 2010 14:51
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That box outside is just a switch for working on the compressor. Basically, it's either just a great big jumper that you pull out to open that circuit, or a lever switch. If you don't see the lever on the outside of the box, then it sounds like you got the first type. Regardless, all of the fuses are inside at the breaker box.
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Apr 8, 2010 19:03
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Messadiah posted:The red one has a button that will test a GFCI receptacle and trip it. In other words, it has a feature that every GFCI receptacle has built in already. grover posted:Odd that there are two GFCI breakers on a single circuit... You should see my sister's place. Apparently the previous owner didn't know that you can daisy chain regular outlets off of them when he was renovating. She has 1 circuit going out to her garden shed outside. In it there is a 2 gang outlet box... with 2 GFCIs. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Apr 12, 2010 |
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Apr 12, 2010 04:57
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Hillridge posted:For those of you wondering about the need for GFCIs, we had a great demo at work where the instructor plugged a router (woodworking tool, not network equipment) into an extension cord, turned it on, then tossed it in a tub of water. It merrily ran with no issues. He then plugged it into a mini-extension cord with a built in GFCI, repeated the experiment, and it shut off the second it hit the water. Let me guess, a plastic container, right? That's why it kept running. While there was a short to the surrounding water, there was still no short to ground for the breaker to trip. So no, routers don't work underwater. Richard Noggin posted:As I was removing the outlet covers before painting my bathroom, I found that one of the blank covers was hiding some wiring that was not used. The ends were cut off clean, but there are no wire nuts protecting the ends. I can't imagine that this was up to code. Did you try a circuit tester to see if it was hot? Actually, it is legal to abandon unused wire in walls. Electricians will sometimes do this to renovate old buildings with 2 wire romex to 2 with ground romex. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Apr 13, 2010 |
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Apr 13, 2010 03:00
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Kaluza-Klein posted:Sorry to quote myself, but am I going to be stuck unless I have a volage meter? Not necessarily, you can get a circuit tester at any hardware store for under $2. 
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Apr 26, 2010 22:53
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I bought my brother's house that was built in 1956 and I'd like to legally update all it's old 2 prong outlets to 3 prong ones. Five years ago my brother had an electrician swap out the old fusebox for a breaker box, and install a new circuit for a workshop area in the basement. As far as I can tell, all of the original wiring is 14-2 with ground in a metallic-looking woven sheath. I noticed that the ground wire is usually grounded on the outside of the steel boxes, i.e. to one of the screws on knockout clamps; or at any junction all of the ground wires were poked back out their entry holes and twisted together on the outside of the box, then the screw down clamps inside hold the ground wire against the box. Would legally upgrading to 3 prong outlets be as simple as swapping them out?
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May 15, 2010 01:57
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Make sure to test (with the breaker off, preferably) your neutral to ground and make sure it's very close to 0 ohms at every box. You mean just a continuity test with a multimeter? Also, again this is an old house and could really use some more outlets in certain rooms. Is there a limit to how many outlets you can put on any one circuit?
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May 15, 2010 17:02
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:You'll just be pissed when you figure out you have half your house on one circuit and the breaker keeps tripping the second something looks at an outlet funny. hey shut up, half the house is on one circuit already. First off, it's a small place, only 5 rooms and a small hallway. I made a circuit map, and the kitchen/dining room lights, east bedroom, hall, bathroom and back porch are all one circuit for a total of 8 light fixtures and 5 outlets. To this circuit I'd like to add 3 outlets. So I guess I'd be better off if I split this up into 2 circuits? edit: I also discovered that all of the ceiling fans were wired with 14-3 with ground, it's just that whoever put those ceiling fans up never hooked them up properly so the light was on the switch and the fan was always hot! It would appear that whoever wired this house originally did a pretty drat good job and the owners in between were idiots. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 18:36 on May 16, 2010 |
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May 16, 2010 18:00
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I suppose the kitchen should be brought up to code too... Right now I've got 3 circuits in the kitchen: 1. kitchen/breakfast area lights - shared with adjoining rooms 2. kitchen/breakfast area outlets - has 2 GFCIs, one is at the first circuit junction. (apparently the person who installed them didn't know you can daisy chain off them) For some reason, the washer/dryer outlet in the basement is on this circuit too 3. garbage disposal - shared with a random light in the basement That's it. The oven/range is gas, so no circuit there. The microwave is a countertop model. The dishwasher is one of those portable ones, but I will install a proper one when I redo the kitchen. All existing wiring is 14-2 with ground. So what do I need to do to bring this kitchen up to code? Also, one other circuit code question: is it legal for a furnace to share a circuit with an attic fan?
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May 17, 2010 18:48
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Anybody?
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May 19, 2010 19:16
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Hi, remember how I was upgrading my place legally to 3 prong outlets? Well, things have been going OK so far, but I ran across this: Click here for the full 1600x1200 image. Back when this place had a fusebox, it looks like this was how these circuits were grounded. When it was upgraded to breakers however, the electrician left the old clamps in place. I assume that I'll need to unfasten the grounds from the clamps, poke them into the breaker box and extend each ground all the way to the ground/neutral bar? edit: nevermind, I figured out the junction box sizes kid sinister fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jun 5, 2010 |
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Jun 5, 2010 01:51
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I got some more questions about code. 210.12(C) 1 and 2 state that bathrooms and laundries both need their own dedicated circuits for receptacles. However, in both my laundry area and my only bathroom there are only 1 receptacle in each. Would I need 20A GFCIs for those 2 areas because of 210.21(B)(1)? Also, I pretty much got that bathroom lights and receptacles must be on separate circuits. However, are you allowed to put those 2 circuits in the same box?
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Jun 8, 2010 19:20
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OK... then do I have run 12-2 for the light too? That existing wiring is 14-2. If they're the only receptacles on their 20A circuits though, do I need to use 20A receptacles? edit: and what about that "OK to have 2 circuits in the same box?" question? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jun 9, 2010 |
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Jun 9, 2010 01:40
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Welp, looks like I'll need to run all new wiring for that bathroom then. In that case I'll need to keep a junction for the old circuit in the box, since the bathroom isn't at the end of its existing circuit. Is this allowed? Should I bind their neutrals and grounds, or keep them separate?
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Jun 9, 2010 16:49
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That "two hots sharing a neutral" reminded me of something. I was messing around with my AC last week after the condenser outside wouldn't turn on. Long story short, I gassed the ant colony inside and cleared out all the dead ant bodies keeping the relay from making good contacts. Lo and behold, I have AC again! Anyway, I have a leftover from that fuse/breaker box upgrade from a few years ago: an AC subpanel. All that's in it is a lever switch, 1 neutral and 2 fuses, 1 for either hot line. Since those 2 hots are now on a joined breaker in the new box, is this subpanel even necessary?
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Jun 10, 2010 04:47
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Define "right by". My AC unit, this... fused disconnect and the breaker box are all within 6 feet of each other. The breaker box and fused disconnect are inside, the AC is obviously outside along with a second disconnect on the side of the house (that disconnect looks like a motherboard jumper on steroids). It just struck me as odd that this disconnect thingy by the breaker box is still there, considering that the newer breakers perform the same function as the old fuses and lever switch. At first glance it appears superfluous and I was wondering if it's even necessary anymore.
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Jun 10, 2010 20:32
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Great, I try to bring my place up to code... I installed 2 combo AFCIs today for my bedrooms, hall and family room. The problem is that on one circuit, that AFCI trips when I turn my PC on. I've unplugged everything else from that circuit including unplugging the PC from its surge protector and plugging it in directly and it still trips. Right now I'm running it off an extension cord to the other GFCI, so I know I don't have a short somewhere in my PC case. Ideas?
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Jun 11, 2010 04:41
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grover posted:Could be a wiring problem in the receptacle; ground-neutral short, most likely. Doubtful, yesterday I got out my 12' PC power cord and tried it in 2 other outlets in the room, same result. My plug-in outlet tester says that every outlet on that circuit is wired correctly... How do I test for a neutral-ground short? Unscrew them at the breaker box and test for continuity? babyeatingpsychopath posted:Does it trip when you plug anything else in, or just the PC? I just discovered that AFCI will also trip if I turn on the TV in other room on that circuit... The plot thickens. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jun 12, 2010 |
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Jun 11, 2010 23:54
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Shared neutrals. The neutrals from two circuits touching will cause the AFCI to screw up. gently caress, I just remembered something I discovered on that circuit... Back when I was working on upgrading that circuit to 3 prong outlets, I remember that some outlets in the family room on that circuit were still testing as grounded when I myself disconnected the ground farther up the circuit. Could that be causing my problem?
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Jun 12, 2010 06:07
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The last time I was in my local electrical supply store, in the front window they had these insulated splices that looked like 1-connection terminal strips on steroids. You should be able to use one of those indoors... Could you use something like the phone line repairmen use for outdoor splices? Basically they have these tubes full of silicone-like stuff that you activate and then dunk your splice in. And I tracked down my ground-neutral short! It's occurring inside a section of old AC cable that goes to the front porch light. Now I get to replace that ~2' of AC... Never a dull moment! kid sinister fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jun 12, 2010 |
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Jun 12, 2010 21:26
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And now for the back porch! I have a covered, screened-in patio there right now. All that's there right now is a wall light fed by 14-2 AC through the brick wall, with a 14-2wG patched into that and screwed flat against the brick by the wall light (I know this isn't to code), and it goes up and over to a ceiling fan out there which is rusting so it's probably not "damp" rated. I'm going to replace that run from the indoor switch with 12-4 MC (or 12-3 with insulated ground, I don't get the numbering sometimes) so I can also put in a GFCI out there as per code now requires and still have a switched hot for lights. I figure I'll have to put in a sealed extension box for the wall light, then run conduit from it down to the GFCI box and up to the ceiling fan. What exactly are the requirements for conduit outdoors? Can I just run NM down the conduits, or do I need to go with individual conductors? Or do I even need conduit in this situation? The wall light is about 6 feet up. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jun 14, 2010 |
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Jun 14, 2010 22:36
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Grounding to cold water pipes is one way to ground electricity, or at least it was more common in the past. The idea with grounding to cold water pipes is that they're made of copper, are full of water and extend through the earth beyond your service entrance. Nowadays it's no longer code to ground to cold water pipes just anywhere, it has to be clamped within 5 feet of the service entrance. The reason for this is that copper is no longer the only option for water pipes anymore now that there's nonconducting alternatives like CPVC. Clamping within those few feet prevents the possibility of having a section in between replaced by nonconducting pipe in the future. You've got 2 real options for grounding that circuit: 1. run a ground wire to the service entrance and put a clamp there, 2. run a ground wire to your fusebox and attach it to the grounding busbar inside.
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Jul 2, 2010 06:50
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Now that the old 120V rework in my new house is nearing an end, I'm thinking about structured cabling for computers and TVs and such. I'd like to run the new cabling in conduit, fishing it in walls and through my basement. I've got 2 real problems though: 1. I'm having a hard time finding old work low voltage boxes with knockouts for conduit fittings. I did find some stuff from Smart Box and some more from Arlington, but I'm open to more. Or should I just go to steel boxes with plaster ears and those bendable ear thingies? I'm kind of limited by depth in the exterior walls since they're just masonry with furring strips. I only got 2 3/8" depth in those walls. The interior walls are all 2x4s. 2. What conduit to use? I'm trying to avoid using FMC as I've had nothing but problems pulling wires through it before.
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Jul 8, 2010 20:59
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Anybody got any answers for my box and conduit questions?
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Jul 11, 2010 02:17
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grover posted:Just fish romex, it will work well for your application here. Also, you can always run the cable through the cavities in the masonry in the exterior walls if unable to fish through the furring strip cavity. You don't need to staple or leave 1.25" for retrofit work. No romex here, just low voltage stuff: RG6, CAT5, speaker, etc. babyeatingpsychopath posted:Have you thought of FNC aka Smurf Tube? It's made by Carlon and there's a wide array of fittings for it. I think I saw some Old Work 1 5/8" boxes with integral fittings at Home Depot last time I was there. Do you mean ENT? And would I actually need the yellow colored tubing and not the blue for low voltage instead? And I looked through Carlon's entire catalog. They have nothing with knockouts in old work, just their new work boxes.
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Jul 11, 2010 20:58
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One more question: I installed a new 20A circuit for the washer and dryer in my basement as per code now requires. However, I put in a GFCI there since that receptacle is still in the basement, which code also requires now. The problem is that the washing machine likes to occasionally trip the GFCI, but only when the motor starts up. I'm thinking it's probably because of its starter capacitor. What should I do? Did I just get an overly sensitive GFCI?
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Jul 19, 2010 04:27
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grover posted:It could be an overly sensitive GFCI, but I think it's more likely that the washing machine is the problem. How repeatable is it? Would running an extension cord to a kitchen or bathroom GFCI help you to troubleshoot, or is it more a once-every-few-months thing? It happens once or twice every laundry day. I can't seem to predict when it will happen, but it seems to happen only when the drum spins or the pump... pumps, whether or not the dryer is on and tumbling (it's a gas dryer, so it's on only 120V) on that same GFCI. Sometimes it doesn't happen during a cycle, sometimes it happens twice on a cycle. I just finished laundry, so right now I'm running an empty load in the washer through an extension cord to another GFCI in the basement on a different circuit. We'll see what happens.
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Jul 20, 2010 01:24
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grover posted:Best thing you can do is put a whole-house surge supressor on your main electrical panel- will be more effective than all the surge-suppressing power strips you can plug in. Whole-house surge suppressors assume that all surges will come through the mains, which isn't always true. Then again, if lightning hits your house and fries one circuit, you'll probably have bigger problems than fried computers. Some of those don't protect from surges through the phone or cable lines either.
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Jul 21, 2010 03:30
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grover posted:Virtually all household surges are going to come from the utility lines. Tell that to my parents. Lightning hit a tree next to their house and it came through the phone line frying everything on the network from the DSL modem down to the NICs in our computers.
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Jul 22, 2010 05:22
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grover posted:So, you shouldn't use a surge suppressor on your power lines because a surge might happen on the phone line? I'm not quite sure I'm following your logic here. Also, when I said utility lines, I meant it to be inclusive of the phone and cable lines, which you should also put whole house surge protectors on vice spot protection. I've taken a surge through the cable once myself; thankfully, only lost the cable modem. I missed that utility lines bit, but you're right. I agree, you need to protect more than just your power lines. Basically, any copper coming into your home is enough to fry stuff, even little 24# phone lines. eddiewalker posted:I swapped every outlet and switch in my house in an afternoon. Your place must have been wired up correctly with lots of slack originally. I just did the same thing, and it took me a month off and on. My place had around 3" of slack inside each box, after I pulled the rubber tape off the twisted-and-soldered joints. Then again, I was legally retrofitting for 3 prong receptacles. Luckily it was wired with #12 and #14 with ground in all but 2 runs, so I salvaged the ground wire in half the house was attached on the outside of the steel boxes, and the other half it wasn't even hooked up, just cut off. Luckily that ground was zigzagged inside its sheath, so I was able to pull out an inch or so to carefully pigtail onto it. THEN when I was finished I discovered code 406.11, so I had to go back and replace all those new 3 prongs outlets with tamper-resistant ones! That only took 2 days though.
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Jul 22, 2010 20:44
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grover posted:It's the smell of burnt insulation. It's a smell; it won't go away when you turn it off, it will linger a long time. So, either the new fan is blowing around smells left over from the old fan, or the fan was never the source at all, and was just blowing the smell around. That burning electronics smell is partially ozone. It's the result of electricity jumping gaps through the air, turning 3 x O2 into 2 x O3. It happens with shorts immediately after the short first burns through its conductor until the gap gets too big for the electricity to arc across. It's same the reason why thunderstorms stink. Hell, you can smell it around bumper cars where they have their pickup springs dragging across the electrified ceiling. Question time! If I use steel boxes or even FMC to contain low voltage wiring, do I need to ground them? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jul 23, 2010 |
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Jul 23, 2010 22:43
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Point taken, but I still smell some ozone in it. There's usually a bit of burnt dust too. Nevermind, it looks like I found some PVC boxes that are just what I need... I got one more. Surge suppressing receptacles: are they actually worth a drat, or just a waste of money?
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Jul 24, 2010 00:35
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kid sinister posted:It happens once or twice every laundry day. I can't seem to predict when it will happen, but it seems to happen only when the drum spins or the pump... pumps, whether or not the dryer is on and tumbling (it's a gas dryer, so it's on only 120V) on that same GFCI. Sometimes it doesn't happen during a cycle, sometimes it happens twice on a cycle. Interesting: I tried running that washer off of 2 different GFCIs in my basement via extension cord, and it never tripped once. Once I swapped out the original GFCI for one of those that didn't trip however, it starts tripping again. So the problem is the washer? What do I fix?
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Jul 25, 2010 17:48
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Looking at this logically, we have several components of the system. Washer, GFCI outlet, extension cord, house wiring. I've tried running a few empty loads on that washer on its tripping GFCI but through the extension cord, and so far it works. I doubt the problem is with the wiring, that is a brand new run of #12 to the only device on that circuit. I did nick the outer sheath pulling it through my wood joists in one spot, but it was barely a scuff and I figured a short there would cause the GFCI to trip every time... Ideas? Also, I got another question that I hope one of you can answer. All of the original wiring junctions in my house were solder-rubber tape-friction tape and I replaced them all with wire nuts. However, I dropped a few bits of that rubber tape on my hardwood floors and ground it in with my feet. Does anyone know an easy way to get that poo poo off? It's like a scuffmark from hell! You can't rub it out, it only smears out farther. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jul 27, 2010 |
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Jul 27, 2010 15:59
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gently caress it, I'll throw down the bones for a whole house surge suppressor. What brands do you all recommend? What specs or features should I look for? I'd like something to protect the phone and cable lines too.
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Jul 27, 2010 22:19
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grover posted:TVSSs aren't like power strips, you'd have to buy separate ones for each line. I went with the SquareD I linked; specs are fine, it's cheap, and it's a good name brand. I haven't looked into one for my cable yet, but I'd be interested in what you find as it's not a bad idea. Instead of protecting your phone line, just ditch your landline and go with nice safe cell phones instead If I understand these TVSS thingies right, they're installed as their own circuits? I'd just install it with a 15A double pole breaker? I got enough slots in my box to do that. I found this thing that protects line, phone and cable: http://www.smarthome.com/4871/Intermatic-IG1300-2T1C-Whole-House-Surge-Protector/p.aspx They do sell the cable module individually though: http://www.smarthome.com/4874/1-Line-Coax-Cable-Protector-IG1CM/p.aspx
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Jul 28, 2010 01:57
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:So running the washer on an extension cord fixes it? Sounds like it's fixed. Except extension cords aren't allowed for permanent use... Grover, what were you saying about it being nasty inside? Should I just unplug it and give it a good cleaning inside? edit: Also, still got that question about a 2 pole breaker for a whole house surge protector, and what kind of specs to look for. And what exactly is a TVSS and how is it different? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jul 28, 2010 |
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Jul 28, 2010 17:46
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Well then, if logic's out the window for my washing machine, then I guess I'll have to perform every possible maintenance and fix for it. I've already swapped out GFCIs and I'm pretty familiar with the insides of washing machines. Hell, I swapped out the motor coupling in one yesterday. What would I do if there was leakage current?
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Jul 29, 2010 21:29
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^^^^thanks, I'll try that. I think I'm down to this SPD for my house. A name brand even I've heard of that protects line, phone and cable. What do you guys think? http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=6929§ion=28317&minisite=10026
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Jul 29, 2010 23:22
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AFewBricksShy posted:Why is this? That's just it, there has to be enough clearance directly in front of a panel for any rework to be possible in the future. How much room is highly subjective to the inspector. babyeatingpsychopath posted:As for TouchyMcFeely, panels in closets = bad, panels in bathrooms = bad. Oh god, that reminds me of a picture I found in a forum for electrical inspectors, of the failures they found. One guy had a fusebox in his shower stall...  Found it back, I posted it in this thread last year. Still gets me though. Of all the ways to tack another bathroom onto your real estate listing... 
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Jul 31, 2010 03:57
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