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Carth Dookie posted:The violent maneuver with the bars just before you went down: was that you doing it on purpose, upsetting the bike and causing the crash or was it a reaction to something else and already part of the accident? quote:Alternatively: Mechanical failure of some kind? Bearing seized? Barnsy posted:Are you sure your right hand wasn't on the bars? That sudden twist of the bars and the screech sound really suggest a lock up of the front. Did you maybe put your hand back on the bars when the car in front was breaking and accidentally hit the lever? The rear wouldn't do much to you at the speed you were going, but check the tyre and see if it has a skid mark in the middle, maybe you put your foot on the rear pedal when you were fiddling around and lock up. quote:I'd be sure it wasn't a pilot error before blaming mechanicals, and if you're sure it wasn't you I'd have a really close look at the front end, though I don't know what would cause that to happen (bearings seizing would mean the front wheel wouldn't spin any more presumably?). Razzled posted:you panicked for no reason and grabbed a hold of your front brake when you saw the guy in front lightly braking because you were off in la la land looking at something off to the right Sagebrush posted:Set your youtube playback speed to 0.25x and watch the right mirror. Just at the moment the crash starts -- before the bars have started to turn -- the mirror image jumps in a way that looks for all the world like a quick front-end dive, which would only be caused by sudden application of the front brake. It sure looks like what happens when you suddenly lose the front wheel. quote:I suspect Razzled is right, and you just don't remember grabbing the lever. I was definitely tired. At work we've been doing pretty much ten hours a day, 7 days a week for close to two months. On top of that I got a new bicycle and I've been commuting to work on that thing, and I had just ridden it home maybe an hour earlier. So I would have definitely been tired and slow, and I was distracted by the idea that I'd forgotten something, but I really specifically remember decelerating with my hand completely off the brake and throttle, with intent to gently get off the road for a minute. It's irritating to me because I have to assume I crushed the brake for the first time in tens of thousands of miles, without any real stimulus to prompt it (I swear I was just not aware of that car ahead in anything like a way that would make me panic brake at <34 mph). I just have to watch myself overall a lot more closely, and probably just skip driving myself around until the bicycle doesn't tire me out so much. I just have this strong emotional feeling that whatever I did I did with my left side, even though the only intelligent read is that it's the right hand. I should have just pointed my camera so I could see the bars. I thought the angle where we can see mostly what's ahead of me was more "interesting" or something, and now I can't see where my hands went. VVVV The road was pretty clear. There was some gravel, but I don't think it was the kind of thing that would kick my wheel around. No potholes. VVVV Frosty- fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 03:30
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Pothole with one hand on the left bar janked the front wheel weird and dumped you off cause you didn't have two hands to absorb the shock properly?
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Sep 29, 2017 03:40
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I've had two washouts like that in my time, with the same sort of wait-what's-BLAM suddenness that comes with losing the front end, and they were caused by 1) hitting a playing-card-sized piece of flat plastic (material like a laundry detergent bottle) lying in the road while leaned over in a turn 2) braking hard, on the edge of wheel lock, and hitting a patch of gravely sand that I hadn't noticed If you weren't turning and you weren't braking, there isn't any reason for the front wheel to suddenly lose traction like that. I ran over an aluminum ladder once at 50 miles an hour, straight line and constant speed, and the bike barely even wobbled.
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Sep 29, 2017 03:56
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Carth Dookie posted:Pothole with one hand on the left bar janked the front wheel weird and dumped you off cause you didn't have two hands to absorb the shock properly? Surface looked really flat. There was some gravel, so it might be a combination of you mashing the brakes wihtout thinking and some gravel. More the former than the latter. Frosty- posted:I don't think so. The crash was happening for a little bit before I realized what was going on. I remember feeling stupid for not doing anything to stop it from happening, instead of doing something to cause it. Honestly fatigue is a killer on bikes. I will avoid riding if I haven't had a good sleep/overtired because you do stupid poo poo that you wouldn't otherwise do. Hate to say it, but ABS would have probably saved you here.
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Sep 29, 2017 05:00
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You were fatigued, do you cover the brake? I've had really unfortunate brain farts while very tired where I'll not actually do things in the right order. If your fingers were curled around the brake and you, I dunno, forgot to let go of it before pulling your hand off the bar, I could see that happening. Otherwise, no idea. Looks like a locked front wheel to me, only really possible like that with large steering input and lots of brake or something.
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Sep 29, 2017 05:57
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Is it possible that the front brake was dragging slightly, heating up the brake fluid eventually causing the front wheel to lock up? I've heard that can happen with overfull brake fluid reservoirs.
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Sep 29, 2017 06:14
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It almost sounds like tires squealing too, which again would be the front looking at how it went down. If you're sleep deprived or chronically tired, you're basically drunk. Same effect (I ride all the time, even if I'm working daily 16 hour shifts). Going to be hard to evaluate why you crashed because of that, but at least you're ok and bonus your bike took the hit really well! How bad is your shoulder? What has to be done with that? Holy poo poo follow through with your physical therapy if you did any kind of damage. I was kind of lax with mine and I already just kind of feel generally in pain 24/7.
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Sep 29, 2017 06:46
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pun pundit posted:Is it possible that the front brake was dragging slightly, heating up the brake fluid eventually causing the front wheel to lock up? I've heard that can happen with overfull brake fluid reservoirs. That seems extraordinarily unlikely, and it wouldn't happen instantaneously anyway.
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Sep 29, 2017 07:27
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Sagebrush posted:That seems extraordinarily unlikely, and it wouldn't happen instantaneously anyway. Didn't one of our Aussie members in QLD have this happen, causing him to eat poo poo without warning? His nick escapes me right at this moment. I think he was on a Kawasaki. Not to say that it's still not incredibly unlikely.
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Sep 29, 2017 10:06
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Here4DaGangBang posted:Didn't one of our Aussie members in QLD have this happen, causing him to eat poo poo without warning? His nick escapes me right at this moment. I think he was on a Kawasaki. I'm not Australian, I just say "oval office" a lot.
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Sep 29, 2017 10:09
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I've watched it again with sound and on a proper screen and yeah tend to agree with others in that you got a little off balance going one handed, and then accidentally grabbed a bit of front brake when you suddenly put your right hand back on the bars and ate poo poo for your trouble.
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Sep 29, 2017 10:19
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Sagebrush posted:1) hitting a playing-card-sized piece of flat plastic (material like a laundry detergent bottle) lying in the road while leaned over in a turn quote:If you weren't turning and you weren't braking, there isn't any reason for the front wheel to suddenly lose traction like that. I ran over an aluminum ladder once at 50 miles an hour, straight line and constant speed, and the bike barely even wobbled. Z3n posted:You were fatigued, do you cover the brake? I've had really unfortunate brain farts while very tired where I'll not actually do things in the right order. If your fingers were curled around the brake and you, I dunno, forgot to let go of it before pulling your hand off the bar, I could see that happening. Otherwise, no idea. Looks like a locked front wheel to me, only really possible like that with large steering input and lots of brake or something. Barnsy posted:Honestly fatigue is a killer on bikes. I will avoid riding if I haven't had a good sleep/overtired because you do stupid poo poo that you wouldn't otherwise do. quote:Hate to say it, but ABS would have probably saved you here. pun pundit posted:Is it possible that the front brake was dragging slightly, heating up the brake fluid eventually causing the front wheel to lock up? I've heard that can happen with overfull brake fluid reservoirs. Revvik posted:It almost sounds like tires squealing too, which again would be the front looking at how it went down. quote:If you're sleep deprived or chronically tired, you're basically drunk. Same effect (I ride all the time, even if I'm working daily 16 hour shifts). Going to be hard to evaluate why you crashed because of that, but at least you're ok and bonus your bike took the hit really well! quote:How bad is your shoulder? What has to be done with that? Holy poo poo follow through with your physical therapy if you did any kind of damage. I was kind of lax with mine and I already just kind of feel generally in pain 24/7. I don't think it's going to heal well. The whole post-crash experience has been infinitely worse than actually crashing. Everyone involved has either actively hosed me over or just been too wrapped up in their idea of what's good and helpful to actually be good and helpful. I got bullied into the ambulance ride to the ER, the fucker who called the police can rot in Hell for eternity and the piece of poo poo cop who gave me a written warning for "failure to drive right" took my AAA card and then didn't involve them, so I had to pay a $200 tow fee. The place it got towed to is a whole other lovely story. I can't see how the sling is protecting my injury or aiding in healing. They were very concerned about my painless foot fracture and got me a giant boot. My insanely painful and disturbing rib injury that literally klunks around and moves and poo poo is of no interest to anyone. They want to see me again on Monday. I'm just going to cooperate and expect a disappointing result. It's funny because I'm not really worked up about the crash. I feel fine with bikes and I don't have any kind of fear that I didn't have before. I'm not even really bothered by the injuries except when I sneeze, but the fallout from the crash, all this interaction with the system, it's very discouraging. I love my bikes, and they're definitely my primary form of transportation, but it's almost not worth continuing to ride simply because of how dreadful everyone around me has made my life since I crashed. Carth Dookie posted:I've watched it again with sound and on a proper screen and yeah tend to agree with others in that you got a little off balance going one handed, and then accidentally grabbed a bit of front brake when you suddenly put your right hand back on the bars and ate poo poo for your trouble. I'm really not that bad at this. I try to emphasize precision and smoothness, and generally ride with intent to compensate for what I know I can't do, or suspect others might do. I did hear someone say once that around 25,000-30,000 miles people get an invincibility mentality and start to gently caress up. I guess that's me.  Something I've learned from this is the importance of wearing gear that fits. My helmet and my gloves worked perfectly. My jacket did very little, and I know it's because I bought it when I was 303 pounds and kept wearing it at 215. If I hadn't been lazy or cheap or whatever, and wore a jacket that fit properly, I might not have had such a severe shoulder injury. Same for my shoes. I wasn't wearing my boots because I didn't want to scratch the bike. 
Frosty- fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 14:21
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Rib injuries are always painful and there's little or nothing to be done for them while they heal beyond taking NSAIDs (the naproxen) or other painkillers and doing your best to avoid aggravating it. Even if you broke your ribs they'd likely tell you to suck it up unless it was puncturing something, and then you'd be looking at surgery. The sling is keeping you from moving the AC joint as much as possible so it can actually heal. Same for the boot on your foot. Even if it's painless now, on the off chance you manage to dislocate that fracture somehow you aren't going to be happy. Foot injuries take loving FOREVER to heal and they often don't get back to 100%. When the shoulder separation heals up a bit you'll likely be recommended physical therapy.
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Sep 29, 2017 15:24
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Frosty- posted:
Not really. You said you were fiddling with your right pocket just before the accident which could mean your weight was shifted which might be why you drifted a little to the right in the first place, then grabbed the brake while off balance and boom. quote:Something I've learned from this is the importance of wearing gear that fits. My helmet and my gloves worked perfectly. My jacket did very little, and I know it's because I bought it when I was 303 pounds and kept wearing it at 215. If I hadn't been lazy or cheap or whatever, and wore a jacket that fit properly, I might not have had such a severe shoulder injury. Same for my shoes. I wasn't wearing my boots because I didn't want to scratch the bike. Maybe, maybe not. The jacket is good for reducing the risk of road rash but no amount of body armor is going to save you if you bodyslam the pavement like that. You should still deffo wear stuff that fits though because if it rides up during a slide and exposes skin then well... Also wear your boots dickhead.
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Sep 29, 2017 15:33
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Chichevache posted:I'm not Australian, I just say "oval office" a lot. Haha, I remember now, it was Shimrod.
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Sep 30, 2017 00:24
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Yeah that video looks and sounds like it just has to be a front wheel lockup, and if it was free after the accident, I think it pretty much has to be rider error grabbing the brake. Can't figure another explanation for that sequence of events.
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Sep 30, 2017 03:48
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You keep mentioning your habits of being smooth for ever and ever and always reacting properly, etc etc, which is commendable -- but just because you're doing it right for your entire riding career doesn't mean there is no chance for a slipup.
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Sep 30, 2017 03:58
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Maybe god just hates him?
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Sep 30, 2017 05:45
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:Yeah that video looks and sounds like it just has to be a front wheel lockup, and if it was free after the accident, I think it pretty much has to be rider error grabbing the brake. Can't figure another explanation for that sequence of events. M42 posted:You keep mentioning your habits of being smooth for ever and ever and always reacting properly, etc etc, which is commendable -- but just because you're doing it right for your entire riding career doesn't mean there is no chance for a slipup. Chichevache posted:Maybe god just hates him?
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Sep 30, 2017 15:25
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Given the mechanism of injury to cause an AC separation, I doubt any jacket would do you much good. Perhaps an airbag suit would provide enough padding, but the normal armor in jackets definitely won't. You got forced into the ambulance probably because you smashed your head - I've done similar things as a ski patroller. If there is any way I can convince someone to go straight to the ER when they've hit their head I do it. The cop was just being lazy and fulfilling his role as a revenue generator, unfortunate reality in America today. AC separations are a really lovely injury, if you've got a really severe one figure they will recommend surgery - that will suck. I think it's pretty clear you hit the front brake. Make sure you're mentally fresh enough to ride. Riding tired is definitely very dangerous.
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Sep 30, 2017 16:01
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Sorry you grabbed a handful of front brake and went down. Glad it’s not even more serious and the bike is ok.
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Sep 30, 2017 17:02
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 poo poo happens
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Sep 30, 2017 17:39
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Here4DaGangBang posted:Didn't one of our Aussie members in QLD have this happen, causing him to eat poo poo without warning? His nick escapes me right at this moment. I think he was on a Kawasaki. Yeah that was me. Wasn't dragging pads directly but defective aftermarket lever pivot not drilled correctly causing m/c to put a little pressure on constantly. Would heat up and locked on me seemingly randomly.
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Oct 1, 2017 06:02
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Shimrod posted:Yeah that was me. Wasn't dragging pads directly but defective aftermarket lever pivot not drilled correctly causing m/c to put a little pressure on constantly. Would heat up and locked on me seemingly randomly. Ah yes, that was it!
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Oct 2, 2017 09:20
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I went to the doctor and got a phone snap of the cool X-ray: Doc says it should heal fine and I won't have diminished range of movement or anything, but it might look a little funny compared to my other shoulder. I'm just going to go easy on it and keep wearing the sling until I have zero discomfort. Insurance guy came and looked at the bike and they already deposited $500 in my bank account, so I guess they've estimated the damage at right about $1000, which isn't too bad. This process is kind of stupid, though, since it hasn't been to a shop yet, so there's like some weird supplemental procedure for getting more money in case it costs more. I'm not thrilled about it, because I was hoping to not involve the seriously shady and neglectful dealership where I bought it, at all. I'm super glad I went for the $500 deductible instead of $1000. Would have been stupid to save pennies on payments only to get jack for actually crashing.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:13
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Frosty- posted:I went to the doctor and got a phone snap of the cool X-ray: But the point being that discomfort isn't necessarily a bad thing
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Oct 6, 2017 19:39
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Oh, OK, that's good advice. I always kind of go dumb when I'm faced with a situation like speaking to a doctor, and the questions about what's appropriate don't enter my mind until a day later. I was thinking that any pain or stress was an indicator that I was going beyond the reasonable range and preventing things from settling back where they should go, but I guess I'll try to go without the sling as much as possible until it actually starts to bother me. It's remarkable how little it actually hurts, though. I keep forgetting to take anything, which is dumb because I bet the anti-inflammatory properties of the pills are more important than the pain-killing. I just hope that by the next time I see the doctor I'm basically functional again. I would desperately like to go back to work.
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Oct 6, 2017 21:11
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You can see your hand release the throttle and brake cleanly in the video, then you shunt forward a bit and the crash starts. I would bet in shifting your weight to check your pocket you dabbed the rear brake and when your weight got thrown forward you only had one hand on the bars, turning the front hard with the rear locked so down you went.
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Oct 6, 2017 23:09
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Frosty- posted:Oh, OK, that's good advice. I always kind of go dumb when I'm faced with a situation like speaking to a doctor, and the questions about what's appropriate don't enter my mind until a day later. I was thinking that any pain or stress was an indicator that I was going beyond the reasonable range and preventing things from settling back where they should go, but I guess I'll try to go without the sling as much as possible until it actually starts to bother me. I mean I'm not saying ditch the sling, just don't expect it to get back to 100 percent sittings in a sling doing nothing. You probably should take it easy at first but later you should use it up to that point where it hurts. I dunno I'm just a dummy ob the internet, were you referred to a physical therapist? Go with what they say
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Oct 6, 2017 23:23
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echomadman posted:You can see your hand release the throttle and brake cleanly in the video, then you shunt forward a bit and the crash starts. nsaP posted:I mean I'm not saying ditch the sling, just don't expect it to get back to 100 percent sittings in a sling doing nothing. You probably should take it easy at first but later you should use it up to that point where it hurts. I dunno I'm just a dummy ob the internet, were you referred to a physical therapist? Go with what they say I'm really thrilled with how quickly I feel like I'm healing. The night after the crash I couldn't even get out of bed on my own without things klunking around in my chest and all kinds of pain. Now I'm pretty good to go, except for the arm, but even that is still OK for a few things, like at least holding my coffee in the morning. Considering how much that level of carelessness could potentially have cost me at basically any other time during that ride or another, I'm feeling fairly relieved that neither the bike nor I got that badly injured. That ambulance bill, though 
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Oct 6, 2017 23:51
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Frosty- posted:I was thinking that any pain or stress was an indicator that I was going beyond the reasonable range and preventing things from settling back where they should go, but I guess I'll try to go without the sling as much as possible until it actually starts to bother me. Work with the physio. You get a stiff shoulder if you don't do enough movement, but overdo it and you'll hold back the healing process. I pop out on this thread to effortpost about goon injuries whenever I see them and I haven't had a negative reaction yet, so if you don't mind Frosty, I'll try to effortpost about your xray. If people agree that I shouldn't do this thing, I will definitely cut that poo poo right out. So with Frosty- and CA's permission, lets talk a little  These are your shoulder bones:  So firstly, an anatomy lecture. Strictly speaking, your overall shoulder joint is made up of three bones that produce all of the movement that you get at what a person might reasonably call a shoulder. The humerus has a big, mostly cartilage covered ball that sits in the socket which is a part of the shoulder blade and gives the bulk of the movement as a ball and socket joint. The shoulder blade (scapula) is attached to the collar bone (clavicle) by a tough but still flexible joint. It connects the scapula from a little projection called the acromion to the clavicle, abbreviated as the AC joint. The collarbone itself is also mobile from where it attaches to the sternum, and the movement of the collarbone is useful because it lets your reorient your shoulder socket in relation to your chest.   What these animations also demonstrate well is that the entire complex of the arm has only one bony attachment to the chest through the collar bone, and the AC joint is the point where the rest of the arm loads up through the collarbone. Keep in mind though that, under the skin there are plenty of muscles and other attachments that bypass the forces away from the AC joint itself, so it isn't exactly the single lynchpin preventing the whole arm from falling off.  a healthy AC joint looks like this on an xray - everything lines up and all is well.  Frosty-'s xray shows the collarbone lifting up a little bit which often is caused by taking a spill and landing hard on the elbow, loading up the AC joint and making a small tear in the AC joint. With the AC joint not being able to take some of the load of the arm through the collarbone, the shoulder blade can sag relative to the collarbone.  When it's all said and done, in most ways the AC joint can be injured, with rest and physiotherapy the joint usually heals up and it resumes its job of taking load through the end of the collar bone, but its not uncommon to heal in a slightly sagged position which in practical terms usually just means you look asymmetrical, as long as the tissue heals up, the shoulder essentially returns to normal function. Trambopaline fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 08:44
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Trambopaline posted:Work with the physio. What they have done is billed me for quite a bit of money, and spent most of their words on managing my expectations of recovery. quote:When it's all said and done, in most ways the AC joint can be injured, with rest and physiotherapy the joint usually heals up and it resumes its job of taking load through the end of the collar bone, but its not uncommon to heal in a slightly sagged position which in practical terms usually just means you look asymmetrical, as long as the tissue heals up, the shoulder essentially returns to normal function. Is there anything I can do to get the absolute minimum sag? I want my bones to go back to their original positions. I'm not really an exemplary male specimen, and I've been working very hard for a while now to change that situation. I've made pretty excellent progress, but I feel like this injury is a rather disappointing setback. I think I mentioned it already: The crash didn't really hurt all that bad, the bike didn't get that damaged, and I don't feel all hosed up and anxious about riding. I'm fine with all of that. What is insanely frustrating, however, is everything that has followed. If I can only get to talk to a doctor after a week and a half and then only speak to him for three minutes about how I shouldn't expect for my skeleton to heal straight, that's pretty discouraging overall. I'm sitting here adding up the bike payments and insurance cost and seeing S-Class Benz money, wondering why I make such bad decisions.
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Oct 9, 2017 16:06
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Scars are cool, just own the new shape of your shoulder. If nothing else it's an interesting story. Edit: not saying you shouldn't make sure it heals right, just don't worry about what it looks like in the end hot sauce fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 16:29
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hot sauce posted:Scars are cool, just own the new shape of your shoulder. If nothing else it's an interesting story. 
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Oct 9, 2017 16:39
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Frosty- posted:I sincerely doubt I will ever see one. The only people who have even mentioned such a thing are here in this thread. None of the medical professionals I've been seeing have wanted to speak to me for more than about five minutes, and none have spoken of PT at all. I mean this as a friendly adult giving you advice and not as a jerk on the internet. You need to learn to talk to doctors. They are professionals, but also service providers. If you want physical therapy, tell them. If it’s not fixed, or something hurts or you need further attention, tell them. Have expectations and don’t let them blow you off.
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Oct 10, 2017 01:05
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Frosty- posted:
not really, apart from not doing too much heavy lifting while you're still recovering.  This picture is a moderate example of it, for what it's worth, you're going to be asymmetrical but you have to go looking for it to find it and in terms of strength and function it will be pretty negligable.
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Oct 11, 2017 05:28
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Trambopaline posted:not really, apart from not doing too much heavy lifting while you're still recovering. Don't doxx me.
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Oct 11, 2017 05:36
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builds character posted:I mean this as a friendly adult giving you advice and not as a jerk on the internet. You need to learn to talk to doctors. Trambopaline posted:not really, apart from not doing too much heavy lifting while you're still recovering... for what it's worth, you're going to be asymmetrical but you have to go looking for it to find it and in terms of strength and function it will be pretty negligable. Here's a stupid question that might not really belong here, but I'm asking anyway: Am I entitled to the labor cost to repair the bike even if I don't have it done by a shop? The insurance company already deposited some money into my account, and if I add my deductible to that amount it really doesn't look like anything but parts cost. I've scheduled to bring the bike to the dealership where I bought it on Tuesday, and I'm supposed to tell them to do their own estimate and let the insurance know in case there's a disparity so the amount can be supplemented, if necessary. I was hoping they might be able to include labor in their estimate so I could receive that amount, but I don't want to actually have them do the work (I had them put tires on my Ninjette and they reversed my rear brake pads, and they've returned other bikes to friends of mine in various states of partial reassembly). I was kind of hoping I could spin the crash into losing only a small amount of money, and possibly getting one or two nicer accessories than what it came with, but I don't want to be a fraud jerk. Or is it just more complicated, and it all depends on which state you're in and who the insurance provider is, and all that? In any case I'm totally getting that SC-Project exhaust. I have to reward myself for my regrettable failures, somehow.
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Oct 11, 2017 14:07
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I have that exact thing with my shoulder from a car crash when I was a kid and I am the only person who has ever noticed. I've never once had a woman recite entire scenes from the hunchback of Notre dame to me, you'll be fine 
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Oct 11, 2017 21:56
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Jack B Nimble posted:I have that exact thing with my shoulder from a car crash when I was a kid and I am the only person who has ever noticed. I've never once had a woman recite entire scenes from the hunchback of Notre dame to me, you'll be fine I'm going to find the women in your life and make this happen now. It has to be done.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:53
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