|
(Taps thread title)
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 18:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 13:12 |
|
|
Business, Finance, and Careers > House-buying thread - This entire industry has been a loving clown show from top to bottom would be a pretty good thread title evolution.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 18:52
|
|
|
Mush Mushi posted:Our escrow officer suddenly no longer works at the company on closing day and no one at their office knows what is going on. This entire industry has been a loving clown show from top to bottom. Oh, hell. May this be solved fast.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 18:53
|
|
|
On the plus side due to an error on the seller’s counteroffer I will be the proud beneficiary of not one but two separate home warranties at no cost to me. That gave me a chuckle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 19:32
|
|
|
Mush Mushi posted:On the plus side due to an error on the seller’s counteroffer I will be the proud beneficiary of not one but two separate home warranties at no cost to me. That gave me a chuckle. oh no if you try to make a claim, they'll each insist the other is the first payer
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 19:42
|
|
|
Choose one of them and cancel the other to get a prorated refund.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 20:00
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:. Welp, we got a partial cost concession, accepted it, and we are rolling forward. Honestly the price we are getting overall on the property is good enough that we can afford some significant renovations, but the real deciding point was realizing that the grandma selling this place had us over a barrel because I was not going to be the one to tell my mother in law her grand baby was no longer moving in next door So I'm gonna be learning a lot about renovations over the next few months!
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 20:45
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:the grandma selling this place had us over a barrel because I was not going to be the one to tell my mother in law her grand baby was no longer moving in next door Lol I wasn't going to ask but I was wondering about that angle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 20:46
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Lol I wasn't going to ask but I was wondering about that angle. Literally married to this house What could go wrong?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 21:08
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Literally married to this house You have a good few years. You and the house make a wonderful little shed together. Then slowly things start to weather and wear. The magic is gone. One night, after a few too many beers, you sleep in a friend's house. After that, it's all down hill. Your house finds out, you hire a contractor to try and patch things up, but the damage has been done. In the end the house leaves you and takes half your wife.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 21:34
|
|
|
I was super scared about foundation repair stuff and it turned out to be a reasonably easy process that didn't go over the estimate cost (and was less than I expected). That's not a promise that that will happen every time but I figure some anecdotal positive examples might help counter some of that inevitable dread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2024 23:52
|
|
|
I know this is probably a naive thing to complain about in this day and age, but we have started looking for a house and watching one I'm really interested in go from listed to pending in 24 hours is so maddeningly dumb. How are people with jobs that can't go see a house the hour its listed supposed to even take part in this process?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 07:06
|
|
|
They're not. Large scale/corporate landlords are buying them sight unseen the moment they hit the market.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 12:16
|
|
|
thalweg posted:I know this is probably a naive thing to complain about in this day and age, but we have started looking for a house and watching one I'm really interested in go from listed to pending in 24 hours is so maddeningly dumb. How are people with jobs that can't go see a house the hour its listed supposed to even take part in this process? Where are you seeing them listed at? Depending on your area Redfin et al can be slower to update. If you're in a hot market it's not uncommon for a house to be listed on a friday, do open house on saturday, and accept offers on sunday. It may very well be an actual, human buyer, just one that is offering a clean offer with no contingencies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 12:25
|
|
|
Or people arranged the purchase before it even got listed, and it's just going up on zillow in case the sale falls through.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 12:31
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:They're not. Large scale/corporate landlords are buying them sight unseen the moment they hit the market. there's actually data on investor purchases, and it does not support that statement as a default assumption. investor purchases are about 30% of the market (which is higher than recent history), but in raw numbers have gone down since 2021/2022 and are almost flat since pre-pandemic:  ibuyer (which I imagine are typically sight unseen buys) purchases are... 0.5% of all purchases:  https://www.corelogic.com/intelligence/us-home-investor-share-reached-new-high-q4-2023/ if a house sells on day 1, it's more likely that the seller and buyer agent talked before it got listed and lined up a buyer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 14:07
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:They're not. Large scale/corporate landlords are buying them sight unseen the moment they hit the market. Large investors are a very small fraction of home buying, like 2% or less. Most corporations that are buying homes are small and not buying sight unseen, and even that number, while growing, is not orders of magnitude or anything from where it's been. The problem is the same thing it's been: lack of supply. In some markets what Cyrano said is true, a house only goes up for 72 hours and if your casually looking or not hunting open houses you'll miss stuff quick. We build our way out of this or it just keeps getting worse. Your don't even need to build affordable housing, it's just a numbers game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 14:10
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy is also right that houses can be accepting offers before they get listed, thanks to agents talking to each other informally. I imagine this is especially true in tight markets, precisely because the market moves so quickly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 14:13
|
|
|
My house sold in eight hours because my agent had a carousel of showings that started as soon as it listed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 14:19
|
|
|
Has anyone seen any impact from the lawsuit on how commissions and fees are working in your area? We’re going to be listing our house in the next month or so, the first realtor we talked to said he is seeing some sellers list with zero commission to the buyers agent but generally the buyers are using that for price concessions from the seller so it ends up more or less a wash.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 15:58
|
|
|
pmchem posted:there's actually data on investor purchases, and it does not support that statement as a default assumption. what fraction of sales are from investors? Do they sell at the same rate that they buy, or are they holding onto whatever properties they grab?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 17:08
|
|
|
thalweg posted:I know this is probably a naive thing to complain about in this day and age, but we have started looking for a house and watching one I'm really interested in go from listed to pending in 24 hours is so maddeningly dumb. How are people with jobs that can't go see a house the hour its listed supposed to even take part in this process? Sometimes it’s just timing. After searching for months we saw a house pop up in the neighborhood the same day we were already there looking at another one. I think we toured the house an hour or two after it was listed and put an offer in the following day. We only had the confidence to do this after reading dozens and dozens of inspection reports, viewing dozens of houses in person, and losing a few offers, but to everyone else we were the annoying people screwing up the normal process. We became what we hated.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 17:41
|
|
|
Lockback posted:Large investors are a very small fraction of home buying, like 2% or less. Most corporations that are buying homes are small and not buying sight unseen, and even that number, while growing, is not orders of magnitude or anything from where it's been. Ownership is low, about 2% of total housing stock nationwide Investors are 20-35% of buyers https://www.corelogic.com/intelligence/us-home-investor-share-remained-high-early-summer-2023/ quote:California (34%), Washington, D.C. (33%), Georgia (32%), New Mexico (31%), Texas (31%), Nevada (30%), Utah (29%), Arizona (29%) and Kansas (29%) posting the highest investor share. You didn't define it in your post but the define investor as quote:an investor is defined as an entity (individual or corporate) that has retained three or more properties simultaneously within the past 10 years.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 17:46
|
|
|
That definition covers a lot of small-time local landlords and flippers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 18:17
|
|
|
Hadlock posted:Ownership is low, about 2% of total housing stock nationwide LARGE investors. A LLC that owns 2 properties isn't buying houses sight unseen or causing a glut of unoccupied residences.  The bulk of that number you post is people with 1-9 properties, which for purposes of competition aren't going to be the same as ibuyers. In this case, the data seems to indicate that houses going quickly off the market isn't due to investors buying houses sight unseen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 18:33
|
|
|
Lockback posted:Large investors are a very small fraction of home buying, like 2% or less. Most corporations that are buying homes are small and not buying sight unseen, and even that number, while growing, is not orders of magnitude or anything from where it's been. On the other hand, there are 15 million vacant homes in the US, roughly 10% of housing inventory. And this varies a lot geographically, probably in the ways you expect - there's less vacancy in states that are more popular, like WA and CA. States with less vacancy are also where the housing problem is at its worst, no surprise there. This is illustrating that you can't just build homes anywhere, you have to build them in places where people want to live. But there's very little empty land in those places. So what you really need to do is take existing lots and make them more dense, but then you get WASPy types opposing that because they want to live in their vision of the idealized suburb.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 19:06
|
|
|
Lockback posted:LARGE investors. A LLC that owns 2 properties isn't buying houses sight unseen or causing a glut of unoccupied residences. Well, define it then. 3 properties? 4? 1234? 4 houses is a million dollars with of investment. That's more than I have in the stock market by a pretty Hadlock fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Apr 13, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 19:13
|
|
|
my pretty wife margin is even lower than that but I think "large investor" can reasonably be assumed to not be the Tier 1 investors in Lockback's post, and they're 19.6% of the 2023Q2 sales, with all other categories of investor being only 4.2% e. tier one investors with 1-9 properties are unlikely to be snapping them up without looking at them. All the other explanations given for why houses are appearing and then showing as pending on sites like redfin and zillow are the main factors. The reflexive "it's all enormous investors and corporate greed" that leak out of cspam are understandable given that's the message you get from twitter, but the data shows that's only a relatively tiny part of the whole market. I do wonder how many of the tier one, 1-9 properties set are foreign buyers. And a ton of those tier 1 buyers are making all cash offers. So that is a significant obstacle to buying a home with a mortgage, today. In an average home that attracts at least 5 offers, probably on average 1 of those 5 is an investor, albeit probably a small investor. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 13, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 19:38
|
|
|
Hadlock posted:1 houses is a million dollars with of investment. Fixed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 20:09
|
|
|
I don't see much point in distinguishing between small and large investors, they're all scummy landlords
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 20:20
|
|
|
You may not, but people trying to reason about the scope and type of problem do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 20:33
|
|
|
Listings going under contract within a day is mostly regular buyers having their searches set up to alert them to "coming soon" listings, their agent chatting with the listing agent to get an early showing and find out what the seller wants, and making a very strong offer right out the gate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 20:39
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:Listings going under contract within a day is mostly regular buyers having their searches set up to alert them to "coming soon" listings, their agent chatting with the listing agent to get an early showing and find out what the seller wants, and making a very strong offer right out the gate. The statistics show this is the case, direct observation of my housing market show this is the case......but people want a boogeyman to blame. I suppose that's less scary than "you are priced out of the market because there aren't enough houses where people want to live."
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 20:40
|
|
|
I apologize for bringing the politically loaded (and probably erroneous) subject of large investors into it. It was an unnecessary and dumb distraction from the actual answer to the question that was asked, which is "because people who already have good connections and a good working idea of how much a house in this neighborhood should cost put in a strong, all-contingencies-waived bid within an hour of the listing going live, and often before the listing goes live." Whether those people own 3 properties or 300 is irrelevant; sorry for bringing it up. Taking for granted that OP must live in a high value, housing-scarce area. It's just stupid trying to buy a home in a hot area, you have to waive everything right off the bat to even have your offer considered in most cases.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 20:56
|
|
|
Motronic posted:You may not, but people trying to reason about the scope and type of problem do. Alright, so then explain how the market reacts differently when 3 corporations buy 1000 properties each vs when 1000 individuals buy 3 properties each. Posters seem to be saying that the former is bad while the latter is good but aren't explaining why. Do you know why?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:29
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:Alright, so then explain how the market reacts differently when 3 corporations buy 1000 properties each vs when 1000 individuals buy 3 properties each. Posters seem to be saying that the former is bad while the latter is good but aren't explaining why. Do you know why? Centralization of power has a distorting effect on the market and on society. I don't think it meaningfully affects an individual's chances of getting to buy a house in a tight market, mind you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:33
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:Alright, so then explain how the market reacts differently when 3 corporations buy 1000 properties each vs when 1000 individuals buy 3 properties each. Posters seem to be saying that the former is bad while the latter is good but aren't explaining why. Do you know why? Where did someone say the latter is good? Please provide direct quotes. The reason that the difference matters is that one must understand a problem to solve it. If the problem is small time landlords buying investment properties "banning hedge funds/REITS/'corporastions' from buying homes" as the commonly heard battlecry goes doesn't fix that, for example. Seems this should all be very obvious but here we are anyway......
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:34
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:I apologize for bringing the politically loaded (and probably erroneous) subject of large investors into it. It was an unnecessary and dumb distraction from the actual answer to the question that was asked, which is "because people who already have good connections and a good working idea of how much a house in this neighborhood should cost put in a strong, all-contingencies-waived bid within an hour of the listing going live, and often before the listing goes live." Whether those people own 3 properties or 300 is irrelevant; sorry for bringing it up. Yeah it may be funnier when a big corporation like zillow huffs too much of their own tainted supply, but that doesn't make a lick of difference to people buying a home to live in - George The Small-Time Real Estate Investor is part of the same overall problem
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:35
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:Alright, so then explain how the market reacts differently when 3 corporations buy 1000 properties each vs when 1000 individuals buy 3 properties each. Posters seem to be saying that the former is bad while the latter is good but aren't explaining why. Do you know why? I've just reviewed the last page to be sure: no posters put value judgements like "good" and "bad" there. "You are wrong about x, it's actually y" isn't a value judgement, it's a fact check. In the house buying thread and in BFC more broadly, I think we try to keep the discussion focused on facts because that serves the purpose of informing and helping people best. Some of us can be extremely pedantic about it and I'm sorry if that, specifically, is annoying. That the housing market is hosed is a given, exactly how and why it's hosed is a useful question to ask, and understanding the details - factually, not with handwaving feelings-based arguments - is IMO a prerequisite to both operating within the hosed system and any hope of improving it. e. to answer your other question, it was already mentioned before: exactly how different investors buy can matter. A small-time investor with 1-9 properties seems unlikely to make "sight-unseen" offers on properties: one bad purchase can sink them. A huge fund that accumulates thousands of properties can afford to take losses on some in the service of efficiency, so it seems they could more easily just snap up houses in target markets without bothering to find out anything more about them than what's on the listing. I do not have a source to back up that assertion so it's speculation on my part. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Apr 13, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 13:12 |
|
|
Motronic posted:Where did someone say the latter is good? Please provide direct quotes. Then it's a good thing that no one suggested that kind of ban. Phew! So this is falling along the same line of what I was saying earlier: that small investors are part of the same problem, and if there's going to be change then it needs to tackle both groups
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2024 22:44
|
|