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balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Here's a translation of what many posters were saying, versus how you took offense to it:

OlSpazzy posted:

Because one of two friends, both of whom you've known for nearly a decade, and have never ever not once ever had any disagreements with someone especially not each other and/or you who never has anything come up different in his own life, will have the opportunity to do something else in their particular line of work, or external relationship, or the incredibly unlikely situation that you yourself have something happen in your own personal life and they or you will want to move out and stop paying part of the mortgage.

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balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Every now and then, I think people need a reminder of the subtitle for this thread, so...

I'm sure many of you have heard about this hurricane thing, Irene I think. Well, I'm not in a mandatory evacuation situation in the middle of NJ, but boy, when you get lots of rain in a short period of time and the "even ground" area around the house seems more like "slightly graded towards one side" and that gutter you meant to clean out during a dry weekend got put off so the runoff is creating a nice cascade towards that slope on the ground, you might just get a little water seepage in the basement.

Oh, and the sump pump decides to clog at a really nice time.

On the plus side, that's not the side we have everything stored. Just the washer and dryer.

DO. NEVER. BUY.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
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eddiewalker posted:

I started a 20yr mortgage about a year ago, and have paid off about 25% of my principle since then, so now my normal monthly payments are more principle than interest.

Today my mortgage guy called trying to get me to refi to save a percent of interest. Amortization math is fuzzy in my head, but it seems like doing that would be bad for me because it would put my back into the early stages of a mortgage where payments are mostly interest. Am I thinking correctly?

You are correct. However, if you have been prepaying by a ton (and it seems like you have) and you continue at that pace then it may still end up in your favor because you'll get back to your current ratio quickly. The only way to know for sure is to do a calculation comparing the rates AND the total amount spent with your prepayment strategy. It probably won't be a huge difference either way, because you've paid off 25% in a year :psyduck: kudos to you.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

zaurg posted:

You'll make that back in equity when the housing market bounces back up anyway, so it's worth it.

:barf:

Oh man, follow that advice at your own risk.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Dik Hz posted:

Sounds like you just described buying a house there.

There's a reason the original subtitle of this forum was DO NEVER BUY.

Land moguls aside, who has ever heard of a truly happy landlord? Forget the razor-thin margins you're usually working with; does anyone really want the hassle of upkeep on a property that someone else is using while it is still ultimately your responsibility?

Seriously people, if you want to speculate on the housing market and satisfy an itch to earn money through real estate, just put a bit of discretionary income towards an REIT or something.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

moana posted:

Is it really? I bought a house with my boyfriend and it wasn't hard at all to find a lender, although we both had good credit. If both of your names are on the mortgage, I don't see how it matters at all.

It doesn't. If the lender is giving any number of people trouble about getting a mortgage, it's because one or more of those people are coming up short in their eyes to qualify. Any hardship past that point is based on how the payments are made on a monthly basis. If you can't pay because your BFF is a moocher, or because you broke up with your boyfriend, or your spouse finally asked for the divorce since they started banging the milkman...it's all the same scenario in the eyes of a lender.

All the more reason to make sure that you have a huge financial cushion, a decent amount of flexibility, and a glut of research/time on your side, otherwise DO NEVER BUY.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
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Steve French posted:

I'm not disagreeing with your overall point, but isn't "stealing from your future self" exactly what a mortgage is? (or any other form of debt, really)

You have to live somewhere. The most common scenarios are rent or buy. If someone told you "there's an apartment for rent that's just $50 per month more, but it's nicer and all you have to do is remove money from your retirement account to make up the difference..." I'm not sure most people would bite.

To put it another way: you're asking if it's a good idea to borrow your own tax-advantaged money to make it cheaper to borrow more money for a product with fewer advantages AND makes you create your own self-imposed penalty.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
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shortspecialbus posted:

My motherfucking credit score dropped 50 points in the last month because it happened to calculate when a couple cards were close to maxed - they weren't carrying any balance and they've been paid in full every month for the last forever, minus one month where a couple hundred carried to the next month and then was promptly paid off.

How much is that going to gently caress us? It's in the 650's now. I could just wait it out til it ideally goes back up once everything updates if I had to, and just not use the stupid cards for a while. I tend to use them quite a bit to get the points and then just pay them off completely, which apparently is a stupid loving idea. We'd rather buy a house now though. I put in the mortgage application tonight, so I guess I'll find out soon how hosed I am from it.

Not advocating a video game score mentality, but a quick glance based on the information yove given suggests that you're credit limit may be really low. Also if those are your only sources of credit history, you may be doubly screwed over by a short history. Just keep your usage ratio as low as possible.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Leviathan Song posted:

I'm just starting to look at homes now. I've got my down payment together, preaproval, and think I've found a decent buyers agent. I was looking around and found a short sale cash only for about $60K that's the perfect size in the perfect location, my style of architecture, everything.

I have about $25K saved up for a down payment and was planning to finance the rest up to about $100K. Theoretically though, I could cash out my Roth IRA and buy this house in cash. Right now it's just a hypothetical as I could always find something horribly wrong with a house.

I'm really wondering if cashing out the Roth isn't just as financially reasonable as going the traditional route. I'm already contributing to a 401K at 5% with full matching and have a pension. There wouldn't be a tax penalty to withdrawing the money, just a lack of tax free appreciation in the future. Without a mortgage payment or rent I could easily rebuild the $30K that I'd be taking from the Roth.

What do you guys think? Am I missing something here? Could this be a good idea with this house or another amazing deal cash only property? The allure of living the rest of my life without even mortgage debt is really tempting.

How old are you? If you're sinking in 30k of Roth money then the opportunity cost is losing ~6 years of contributions that you will never get back and the investment earnings that would come with it tax free until the time you retire. Obviously the reward is no mortgage and the chance to save/invest/use the amount that you would pay monthly. If you have decades before you retire, then the greater value is likely with keeping the Roth intact. If you're near retirement age then it skews towards eliminating the monthly expense. Of course take this with a mountain of salt since there is a ton of other factors.

Edit: oh and make sure you have a big enough emergency fund after the purchase because if it's a cash short sale there is a decent chance for some major repairs to be done :smith:

balancedbias fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jun 1, 2014

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

LabyaMynora posted:

Thank you very much. This property has been on the market for 27 days, but was also on the market from Feb to July last year without selling. 2 similar homes have sold in the past year, one for $100,00, and the other for $109,000, but they were in rougher shape from what I can tell. Nothing's selling for close to $129,900 which is why I'm not going to buy at that price. My hope is that by offering $118,900, I'll pay between $122 and $124.

The important point I want to make, however, is that my realtor is acting like I'm insane for wanting to submit a preapproval letter for what I"m offering. She is not explaining to me that offering max is a tactic for THIS situation or THIS area or THIS price point.

Your post makes your thoughts clear. If your Realtor explains the reasoning, then determine if it meshes with you. If the Realtor remains nebulous, then you may need a different one.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Higgy posted:

Depends on your answers to:
Do you enough for a down payment?
Do you have money left over after down payment?
How much will utilities cost vs. apartment?
How long do you expect to live there?
Are you prepared to pay for and/or fix poo poo yourself when it eventually breaks?
Do you really want to buy a house?
Are you sure?

The list can go on. Unless your answers are "yes; yes; more but I'm prepared to pay; at least 5 years but probably forever; yes; yes; yes stop asking" then you probably shouldn't be considering a house.


Question on process for my house buying:
Is it normal to have two credit checks when getting a mortgage? The first was back in January when I was getting pre-approved and now that I'm about three weeks from closing I just saw they ran a second one. I assume this to ensure I'm not getting truck equity while getting a mortgage?

Yeah, it's to make sure you haven't splurged on something or magically decided to stop paying all of your other expenses to afford a brand new mortgage. This is also why the rule of thumb is to not do anything new until every step is done. They will question everything all over again.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

ghostter posted:

It's pretty normal and I just happen to live in the highest insurance premium neighbourhood of the GTA. I got a $40 slap-on-the-wrist ticket for going 15 over two years back. It ended up raising my insurance by 25% (a little over a grand a year) for 5 years. If I knew this could happen I would've paid $200 for ex-copper or something and had it thrown out. Besides that I have a clean record.



Pretty much my biggest fear is change and I really want to rent but I have trouble justifying paying 1500/mo to rent when I could own a property and pay the exact same amount (and keep most of it).

Rent is an exchange where you pay for shelter and the maintenance of the property, with the money going to a landlord. Owning is taking on a massive amount of debt in exchange for paying all maintenance costs yourself, while most of your money goes to the lender. If by "keep most of it" you mean "keep a couple hundred in equity as long as the value of the home doesn't depreciate and the only way to access it is either debt to myself or getting rid of my own shelter" then yes, you're right!

In other words, rent is the highest you will have to pay in a month, and it's fixed for a while. A mortgage is the lowest you will ever pay in a month, with the expectation that you will shell out tons more at random intervals. Please don't be shortsighted on this.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

antiga posted:

read the guidelines for cancelling PMI. There is often a seasoning requirement if you're getting the new appraisal based on market price appreciation. If you have a FHA mortgage the rules will differ.

Can't emphasize this enough. Know your loan parameters inside and out. Know the exact number you would need the house to be valued at, or how much you would have to pay down. You can use both to your advantage if the circumstances are right. If it's FHA, I hope it was originated before the most recent changes. Their version of PMI is now permanent; you'd have to refinance into a conventional loan.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

OhDearGodNo posted:

Real quick couple questions and time is somewhat of essence:

I got a GFE from one lender, and the rate is low plus an offer to lock for 45 days at that rate. Orig fee is also very good. It's almost the perfect loan. No points are indicated or implied on this, and it's a fixed lock or whatever. Lender is personally vetted by several peers. I worry that it's so low and underwriting might have issues even if nothing changes for me financially.

Second lender is charging full 1% in orig fees, as well as a much higher rate (roughly .5% higher). Couldn't provide me with a GFE as "it is done and mailed within 3 business days." Alreadt unhappy with this lender to an extent as he had assumed that since my pre-approval was through and I sent a copy of the contract, that it was a "go" when I had never signed to push forward and had clearly stated since before the pre-approval that when it came down to pick I would shop around.


I'm thinking I'll need to get a third, because either one is stupid high or the other is stupid low.

Also, can I request a rate lock with the estimate without committing in any way to a lender?

I'm not sure I understand...your complaint about the first lender is that it's too good to be true? Do you have any evidence to support that?

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Subjunctive posted:

No, because there are relevant qualifications for being hired, and they will be acting as an agent of the company. It does too often introduce implicit bias, but it's hard to blind that process well enough to avoid it. It's not the case with a house purchase or sale; it's very easy to protect yourself from bias given how little personal information is necessary for the transaction, and that there is an agent who can be a blinding intermediary.

But if you want to make sure that you're not selling to an ex-felon, or someone with a past bankruptcy, or someone with unpopular political beliefs, that's your choice. I know I have biases and I don't think they should interfere with someone buying a home if they meet the financial requirements. I didn't let either of my agents send in a letter of introduction on my behalf either.

So are you actually going to address the practical points of a Google and public records check (information relevant to the condition of a major financial purchase) or continue with your initial less related point? "Ooh, this guy is quoted in an article about Superstorm Sandy...but there's no record of flood repairs. Let me make sure the inspector checks the basement very carefully."
Not a hypothetical; my friend was looking at buying in with a few other people at a shore house. Initial looks were fantastic, all new work...and zero permits to show for it. He passed, wisely.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Xenoborg posted:

I got sent over here from the personal fiance thread with my PMI question:

Setup:
We have been aggressively paying down our house (about 3x the required) to get rid of PMI payments. The principle is now ~79% of the original loan value, so we sent a request to have PMI canceled. The lender (4th owner of the loan in 2 years) sent a reply that we need to pay $700 to have our house appraised to make sure it doesn't loose value. This would wipe out over a year of the savings we would get from not having PMI anymore.

Question:
Does everyone have to pay to get their house apprised to get of PMI or is this because we requested it at soon as we hit 79%? Would PMI automatically go away sometime before 1 year from now on its own?

It seems like common sense that, since the PMI penalty is due to not putting down 20% of the purchase price, then as soon as I have under 80% of the loan value, I'm all set!

NOT SO FAST! The official rule is 78%. So just pay a little more to hit that mark, and you can confidently tell them cancel without the hoop of an appraiser unless you signed some unscrupulous contract.

FYI, people have also used appraisals in their favor, by :airquote: proving the propety's value went up far enough that their equity qualifies for the 78%mark irrespective of the payments themselves.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Twerk from Home posted:

Turns out that type of house I'd been looking out are mostly "Horizontal Property Regimes", a complex ownership structure in which the owner only owns the land under the foundation and a 3rd party legal organization owns the surrounding land, which is shared with other nearby homeowners. I'm bothered by this, does anyone have experience with detached homes that in a situation like this? Apparently all these houses are like this because it's a legal way to subdivide larger lots without going through actual splitting of existing lots. The end result is higher density without the consent of neighborhood homeowners, which I'm not too worried about. I just see this as even more risk because it's like the worst of condo ownership combined with the worst of detached single family homeownership.

Here's one of the better summaries of the structure I've seen: http://info.rochfordlawyers.com/resources/real-estate-title/horizontal-property-regimes-hprs-nashville

Ever seen a really old cartoon or sitcom where there was some misunderstanding about where property lines were, so neighbors would purposely mark off delineations in inconvenient ways or challenge the most basic point of contention just to be dicks?

Yeah, imagine that but with multiple neighbors doing it all at once and with little recourse in terms of going to court about it.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

5 RING SHRIMP posted:

This may be a little off topic for this thread but on topic for the conversation.

Where does the real $ and sweat equity come from flipping houses? Like 20,30,40, 50k in profit between house cost, improvements, and what you get for selling it?

Is it having the time, energy, and money to do the work yourself or resources to do it at cost? Is the real money for people who look to do this actually in keeping it and renting out the house?

It must just be doing it as cheap as possible and renting it and lowering your standards as a landlord and homeowner because I was looking at a house the other day with my dad as a potential investment opportunity and it was for 250k, probably needed 100k worth of work in my eyes but just knowing the neighborhood I can't imagine it would be worth anything above 250k

General rule of thumb :"You make your money when you buy."
The idea is to purchase the house way below its current value so you will have a substantial equity gain after all of the renovations are done. Selling it at that point with the new appraised price should be much easier and you keep the final proceeds. If the final numbers support holding it and renting for positive cash flow, you can do that and keep the forced appreciation as an added bonus (maybe a cash out refinance later, if you're looking to stay in real estate and buy another property without adding any of your personal money).

The situation you described, if you're gauging it correctly, is a bad deal because you're looking to buy for what the house will remain at in that particular market. Flippers look for obvious fixer-uppers in decent markets for that reason. You can force it to be a "good deal" by lowballing an offer at a number that produces a profit for you. Obviously if you have the knowledge and experience to do any of the renovation points yourself, you can save money. But talk to people that have done this type of investing and contracting before; don't approach it like those HGTV shows :derp:

e:fb but seriously, if you want to be an investor in good standing, don't be a slumlord and/or scummy flipper. Word travels fast and it will be tougher for you in the long run. It's not a hard standard to meet.

balancedbias fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Apr 11, 2017

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

SurgicalOntologist posted:

I've posted in this thread before, but now it's time to start making moves and I've got some actual questions. Mainly about the whole loan qualification process.

Looking to buy a house in ~6 month, moving to a new state. We're visiting the area in a few weeks so we'll be checking out some open houses (been stalking the neighborhood on zillow for months already). But I guess it might be time to start looking for a lender?

The issue is, we don't yet have new jobs lined up--and the situation is complicated. Let me just lay it out:
  • I'm starting a business and it could easily be six months until I can start drawing a salary.
  • Given the above, the reason buying a house might still be possible is that I received a big windfall earlier this year, about 40% of the houses we've been looking at. Made a smaller but not insignificant amount last year too, from the same source. I'm hoping it's consistent but don't want to rely on it. Reported as hobby income in 2016, so not technically self-employment, but could file that way for 2017. Of course a portion of that is set aside for taxes, and we paid off the highest-interest portion of the student loans, but we haven't made any major purchases. I would feel comfortable with our savings to make a 20% down payment and also not earn income for up to a year. Of course, the lenders won't see it that way.
  • That said, I will probably get some part-time work, could be W2 or 1099 depending on how some research grants go (I'm a scientist, a buddy has been putting me in his budget for every grant application he submits) but I won't know that for a few months at least.
  • My wife, on the other hand, should not have a problem getting a solid W2 job. According to some mortgage qualification calculator Google found, her hypothetical salary on its own might just barely qualify us for the size of loan we want. She doesn't actually have a job offer yet, though, and of course won't have income history with the new job until we actually move.
  • If our history matters, we have 2 years of W2 income high enough to qualify us.

So, given all that nonsense...
  • Are we hosed?
  • Is it possible to just use my wife's income to qualify and pretend I don't exist?
  • How should we navigate this with lenders? Should we wait until my wife has as job offer in hand?
  • Is a job offer even enough or are we going to have to do some bullshit like stay in a hotel or get locked into a lease while we build up income history in our new city?

There's a chance you'd be looking at some unfavorable rates if you don't don't have a consistent source of income for conventional lending. The W2 history certainly helps, but nothing lined up at time of application can be an automatic disqualifier. It sounds like you have reserves, but that's exactly how the lender sees it, too (just reserves that will get depleted without proof of steady income).
If you don't mind, what's your rush to purchase a house in the new area?

balancedbias fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Apr 27, 2017

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Leperflesh posted:

Francis, Mohinder, Etsuko, and Tariq have decided to buy a triplex together as a tenancy-in-common for $250,000

This was a pleasant surprise and the world is better for this post.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

deep web creep posted:

Did the inspection yesterday and it went pretty well -- stuff we expected, minor code violations, etc. However, the inspector told me that the HVAC and boiler are from '95. The selling agent told us during the open house and prior to signing that they were last replaced in 2009 (didn't notice myself, totally new to this). We even have printouts of the listings and a handout from the open house that lists 2009 mechanicals as a selling point. My realtor called and the selling agent said it was a mistake and/or she misunderstood the seller.

Obviously we're pretty loving annoyed because we thought we had a good few years before we'd have to replace those things, and newer mechanicals definitely factored into the offers we made and the price we signed at. I'm calling my attorney tomorrow to see what he recommends (if anything) but am I screwed on this one? I have a feeling my only recourse would be to walk away on the grounds that they misrepresented the house, which I really don't want to do because we love the house despite. But gently caress me that's a big chunk of change that I was not expecting to spend right now.

My only other idea is to really lean on the inspection and emphatically remind the sellers that our short term costs are going to be a lot higher, thanks to their lovely agent.

It sounds like the inspection is a part of contingency, so you have options. You can ask them for a credit, you can ask for a replacement (unlikely since the product works) and *gasp* you can ask for a price reduction outright. Don’t let FOMO drive the decision; it was never your house to begin with!

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Leperflesh posted:

You should report them, yes. It's possible the owners are unaware of the people occupying their house, it's possible the occupants have been cheated, who loving knows... but what's certain is your city is being defrauded of its rightful tax income and that puts the burden of the city's expenses onto everyone else, unfairly.

Maybe those people are desperate, maybe they're fugitives from oppression, who knows. But it's not your duty to try and find out, especially to your personal risk since they know where you live and have direct access to you. Your only reasonable option is to report what's going on to the authorities pronto.

Um...yes, I agree it's the right thing to do, but the bolded part should not be understated. You need to be safe. If you are the only person these people have spoken to, any complaint could come back to bite you hard. Discretion valor yadda yadda...

Or tldr what that guy said above

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Motronic posted:


- Failing the final walkthrough (see above point - I'm talking poo poo like the sellers leaving things in the house, move-out damage)


Sooooo close to this happening when we bought out current house. However, it worked in our favor! We did the final walkthrough and they still had a ton of poo poo scattered in the basement, but clearly near ready to pack in boxes, hand trolley loaded up, etc.

They also had a fully furnished theater room that they forgot about. Guess who got to keep a sweet set of recliners that we made sure to deep clean because I don't want old furiture but drat THESE ARE NICE for no additional cost? :haw:

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Seven Hundred Bee posted:

For us we're only buying because of two reasons:

1. tired of having to deal with neighbors (living in a condo right now)
2. detached homes that we'd want to rent are rare and very expensive

buying just makes more sense -- I'd rather pay a $1700 mortgage than $2400 in rent.

Just a heads up about this:

When you are a renter, you are only responsible for whatever is stated in your lease. Everything else is on your landlord financially.
When you own a home, everything is your responsibility, no matter what it costs.
Therefore, think of your rent as the ceiling, and your mortgage as the floor. If there is no gap, then it's likely more expensive to own a house in that market in the short term.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:

Hi, yes, don't doxx me.

Counterpoint: Interestingly enough, the change to AMT calculations can make this a wash.

Counter-Counterpoint: If you make enough that your income exceeds the AMT calculation then this is moot.

balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Motronic posted:

Wait, what? That kind of thing sounds absolutely insane. Are you sure you are understanding that reg properly? Those are not any kind of C of O requirements I've ever heard of.

And can't you just roll that into the sales contract anyway and just have someone come do that?

From the one person know in that area, yes the Cleveland POS rules are...well...POS :barf:

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balancedbias
May 2, 2009
$$$$$$$$$

Good to hear it worked out. When I closed on our refinance earlier this year I was thankful that we had a verification contact person well ahead of time in case we got fraudulent information. I was terrified about that happening.

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