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Hi thread. I am new here. I'm not buying at the moment, selling a place in London. On the plus side (for me) house prices in London have gone through the roof since I bought at more or less the bottom of the market in 2009. It must be impossible for anyone trying to buy in London now. On the down side the ownership system in the UK is totally mental if you own an apartment - typically a freeholder owns the structure of the building and you buy a long (say 100 year) lease on a part of it. The freeholder is supposed to maintain the building and even though you "own" an apartment you can't do much yourself. The upshot of this for me was that they haven't bothered doing essential maintenance and I have just spent about £7000 over the last weekend doing repairs that aren't my responsibility. I could theoretically take them to court as they are in breach of contract, but I have decided just to wash my hands of it. The plan is to sell before the government manages to gently caress up Brexit and then either move to Switzerland or build somewhere in the countryside in the UK. I have a decent amount of equity so should theoretically be able to build somewhere without a mortgage.
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Aug 29, 2016 21:12
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Finally set a completion date for my flat sale. Can't wait! The UK freehold / leasehold system is really stupid and I never want to buy a leasehold again.
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Apr 16, 2017 08:18
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therobit posted:I gather leasehold is a lot more common in the UK, but I don't really know the reasons for it. In about 5 years dealing almost exclusively with home refinancing in the US, looking at thousands of loans, I think I have seen one or two leaseholds. It seems like it is only common here in indian reservations. Probably some weird historic lord / serf arrangement. I think it's basically not solvable at this point as essentially all flats here are leasehold.
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Apr 20, 2017 09:40
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Uuuungh buy my flat you fucks I have been attempting to sell a 2-bed duplex flat in north London for over a year. Got a good offer last year and then the freeholder (who I have been trying to get to do repairs for ages) suddenly decides they are renovating the building which will be £70k, of which I am on the hook for 50%. It has been tortuous getting any documentation from them and everyone involved seems to be working at the slowest pace possible. Fortunately the buyers have stuck with it, I guess it will be inconvenient but they will end up with a newly re-done building. I am so sick of it and particularly the moronic leasehold system in the UK. Looking forward it all being sorted in a couple of weeks and to not having to think about it.
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Feb 12, 2018 14:40
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Sale completion date set for Thursday. Can't wait! Between us my girlfriend and I have been paying for 2 homes in London for over a year while selling. So much money wasted when buyers have pulled out of the sale.
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Mar 4, 2018 12:50
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House sale completed after a very long time and a lot of effort. Thank gently caress for that. I'm not buying anywhere for a while so need to work out what to do with all the cash.
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Mar 8, 2018 16:31
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Anonymous Zebra posted:In Switzerland I rented my entire time my time there, as did my my co-workers at the same level as me, as did my boss, as did their bosses. I think it's important to point out that Switzerland has lots of laws and taxes in place specifically to try and avoid putting renters at a disadvantage. Among other things the whole country is rent-controlled with landlords having to go to a tribunal to increase it, and conversely if you own your home you have to pay income tax on the theoretical cash you'd get from renting it out to someone else. I don't think the level of regulation would fly in the US. And still rents are quite high, my apartment is CHF 3200 a month - it's a nice place but still mid market. This all dovetails in to why I'm in this thread, I have the proceeds from my place in London but basically can't afford to buy in the city so am looking for a chalet somewhere nice in the mountains. It's amazing how weird it is to try and do this in a foreign country, I'd have no problem in the UK but obviously everything here is completely different. Current latest surprise is that you have to pay 3% of the sale cost to a notary for drawing up the contracts.
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Jul 1, 2019 16:31
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I found a chalet I'd like to buy in the val d'anniviers, it's newly built and basically has everything I want. Off to speak with my bank tomorrow, because Switzerland is a bit backwards I have to go in person and speak with my account manager in the suspiciously swanky offices in Lausanne. Latest weirdness is that Swiss mortgages are all interest-only and if you have over a certain amount of equity there's no requirement to pay off the capital. The rates are also quite low, a 5-year fixed rate is 0.89%. Fun times.
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Jul 10, 2019 21:38
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crazypeltast52 posted:I can’t find that region in the 2019 UBS Alpine Property report, but are those mortgages available to foreigners? I'm a foreigner but resident in Switzerland and work here so yes the mortgages are available to me at least. I think anniviers does make it into the UBS report but only very obliquely Crans-Montana is across the other side of the Rhône Valley and is a bit of a dump, failure of planning policy. I'm looking at Grimentz which is kind of the opposite, little traditional village but there's good skiing and it's also busy in summer. I took this last summer, Grimentz is just the other side of the lake 
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Jul 11, 2019 06:56
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Hmm so the estate agent has reservé the chalet I am looking at and the bank is prepairing a mortgage offer. BUT there is a giant list of documents to get for the bank so this will take a little time. The bank aspect is a lot more complicated than the UK. Need a lawyer as well to set up the agreement between me and GF about who owns what. Haven't formally made an offer yet but it's moving in the right direction. Check out the view from the bedroom:  e: also I want the GBP to unfuck itself against the CHF for a while so I don't get quite so screwed over transferring the deposit :-| knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Jul 13, 2019 |
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Jul 13, 2019 10:06
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knox_harrington posted:I found a chalet I'd like to buy in the val d'anniviers, it's newly built and basically has everything I want. Off to speak with my bank tomorrow, because Switzerland is a bit backwards I have to go in person and speak with my account manager in the suspiciously swanky offices in Lausanne. Christ. 6 weeks later and we've just (nearly) got approval for the mortgage. The only thing left is the bank manager wants to physically visit the house?? What an odd country. And we haven't even started the buying process yet. Still, can't wait to get my hands on it. Its in a lovely valley. 
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Aug 24, 2019 08:17
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Mortgage for the chalet is formally approved  BUT I have to physically go in to the bank to discuss the details. Another week drifts by.I want to make an offer a bit under the asking price but the price is already reduced and it's hard to determine what the norm is here. The earliest we can get it valued is in a couple of weeks. The difference in the pace things happen between here and the UK is amazing. It must be hell if you're here from the USA.
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Aug 29, 2019 14:24
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Just spoke with the bank manager, 5 year fixed rate here is 0.9% pa and 10 year is 1.1%. So the monthly payment for a ski chalet is chf 860 a month. Rude not to, really.
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Sep 3, 2019 12:11
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Harik posted:You really need to post pics of the house itself at this point so we can all be suitably jealous. Ok! It's in this village:  And this is a slightly lovely photo I took of the chalet:  It's over 3 stories so bedrooms and a bathroom on the top floor where you go in, living / dining / kitchen in the middle, and another bedroom and bathroom in the basement. Basement is still above ground as it's on a 45 degree slope. 
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Sep 3, 2019 15:53
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Update in the weird-rear end country homebuying saga: Offer accepted on the chalet Managed to knock a bit off the asking price which feels somewhat un-Swiss but there you go. Next speed bump is that because neither I nor my GF yet have permanent residency we have to make an application to the canton government for permission to buy a property, even though we are entitled to. Obviously nobody told us this before. Apparently shouldn't be a problem but may take (even more) time. After that we'll need to hand over a 10% deposit to the notary. E: just checked the law and we should have the same property rights as Swiss citizens so idk wtf E2: estate agent just confirmed they hosed up and that's not necessary. I am keen to get this finalised before Brexit happens on 31 Oct and I am no longer an EU citizen. There's an agreement between the UK and Switzerland that existing property ownership will continue but it doesn't specify whether acquisition rights will be the same. Likelihood is that they will but its not 100%. knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 15:06
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Weird-rear end chalet update. The notary confirmed that we don't need any kind of permission to buy, so all is good and I am going to take what the estate agent says with an even bigger pinch of salt from now on. Signed an "engagement d'achat" (commitment to buy) and the notary is making the projet d'acte de vente (draft deed of sale). Seems relatively straightforward so far. I had to check the risk of avalanche on the property which is a new one for me, it was less of a problem in Norf London.
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Sep 9, 2019 20:02
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B-Nasty posted:It's a frequent discussion on finance boards, and most people vote for a mortgage, because it's quite likely that you'll be able to outperform a 3-4% mortgage in a stock-heavy portfolio, even after taxes. However, no amount of return is guaranteed in the stock market, but pre-paying or avoiding a mortgage is absolutely a guaranteed return of whatever your mortgage rate is/would've been. You can also live in the house you buy which is hard to do in an investment account.
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Sep 16, 2019 07:18
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Weird-rear end country real estate acquisition update We were getting pushed to sign the "projet d'acte de vente" (purchase deed) because the notary is going on holiday (lol) and felt like it was a bit of a rush so declined. The notary is supposed to be neutral and make everything "fair" but it all felt somewhat half-assed - stuff like it's a new build but there's no mention of a warranty in the deed - so we decided to get a lawyer. This has to be specific to the canton, I guess similar to the US. It took a few goes to actually get a lawyer as no one calls you back or answers emails, but managed to get one after about a week. Unclear what people do in any kind of emergency. I think the lawyer has been quite helpful, he has reviewed the acte de vente and land registry extract and made some recommendations to go in to the acte about tax liability. The sellers also agreed to the (legally mandated, but somehow not transferred if not explicitly stated) warranty in the contract. The estate agent says the additional things we want to be included should get added to the deed on the day of signature which sounds like a recipe for disaster, so going to get the acte de vente redone once the lawyer is finished with his review. The lawyer is also "stunned" that there is no restriction on the use of the property as a second home as generally the area is covered Lex Weber which restricts new builds to primary residence. Looks legit though. I think that's it. Doing a transaction in a foreign language in a country with a completely unfamiliar legal system is a bit taxing.
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Sep 18, 2019 14:12
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I'm looking forward to the notary getting 3% of my purchase price for what appears to be 30 minutes work.
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Sep 26, 2019 10:24
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Yooper posted:Second is 1996 construction with a circular staircase (is this good?) inside and two outdoor sets of stairs. It has some sweet stonework and a proper steel roof. Is a steel roof considered to be a good thing? You only see them at high altitude here in CH, talking 2500+ metres. I guess they will be pretty sturdy but I can only imagine they will be incredibly noisy when it rains. Signing contracts on the chalet on Friday. Got a call from the bank because I moved 400k between accounts and apparently have a 100k per month limit for doing that... but they agreed to waive the fees which would have been Fr1300. Phew. I need to start buying an entire house of furniture and other kit. Everything is loving expensive and it's hard to find a balance between nice stuff and getting totally ripped off. I also want to put some decking on the terrace and some of the quotes I've seen are eye watering - like Fr10k for 20m2.
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Oct 9, 2019 09:47
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Are electric snow blowers any use at all or not even worth bothering with? Just for clearing a footpath
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Oct 9, 2019 20:28
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It's a ski resort so hopefully quite a lot of snow. I guess I'll wait and see what the deal is, there are other chalets that are on the same path (but we're at the end).
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Oct 9, 2019 21:48
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Well that was pretty weird. Signing the deed of sale (acte de vente) means everyone gets in a room with the notary and goes through the deed line by line. I brought a lawyer which was apparently a surprise, but for some reason the estate agent was in there and also her husband??? No idea. It is extremely local and everyone goes hunting with everyone else. Everyone was very impressed with the lawyer who is apparently the son of a local philanthropist and all the changes to the deed we wanted were made on the fly. So we signed and the place will be ours when the bank gets around to sending the money. After that they're like "great who wants a drink" and we headed up to the château for a bottle of wine and some deer sausage (?) Bought a sofa on the way home.
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Oct 11, 2019 22:08
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Mortgage signed, obviously had to be done in person in the suspiciously plush bank. Half fixed for 10 years at 1.2%, a quarter for 5 years at 0.95% and then a quarter variable rate. The notary was actually cheaper than expected at 2.8% of the sale price. I've been looking for a nice dining table and bench made from old wood. Ludicrously expensive here so I've found a place in France that's more reasonable... Except the delivery costs are €1300 + 21% VAT. gently caress.
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Oct 16, 2019 11:24
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This week's weird-rear end house buying update. We were asked by the notary to send the cantonal tax office à form to get declaration we are registered here for tax purposes (it's a different canton from the chalet). The office is just around the corner so my GF just dropped it off in person. The tax office claim to have no idea what this form is or why it is needed. The notary is also away. Whyyyyy. Also even more mortgage documents have been signed. We have bought a lot of furniture and are getting shopping fatigue.
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Oct 26, 2019 07:52
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H110Hawk posted:Buy the drat television. Pull the trigger. I picked up a Sony OLED last week and it is really good. Chalet update. After the local tax office said they had no idea why the notary had got us to send those forms in we repeatedly tried to contact the notary, with no response. After that didn't work I contacted the bank to see whether we are still going ahead, the guy dealing with my account is now away on holiday. Today is the planned completion date, nothing heard from anyone this week, so I called the bank again. When they finally found someone who knows what's going on it turns out they had just sent the mortgage cash, and taken the sale balance from our savings accounts, anyway this morning. And finally the notary got back in touch to say everything is OK with the stuff he was after. So we own a chalet. Final hurdle: turns out it's a bank holiday tomorrow in Valais so unless we can get a key tonight we may not actually be able to get in until Monday. Valais is the other side of the country and obviously the chalet is up a mountain so may have some driving to do!
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Oct 31, 2019 15:51
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In my case the money just disappeared from my bank without me asking. Also the notary asked for less money than he was supposed to charge. As usual I don't fully understand what's going on but it seems to be working out.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:25
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I guess we are officially in. We spent our first night in the chalet at the weekend. Got about 30cm snow on Friday, more coming this week. 
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Nov 11, 2019 17:36
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Thoughts on how or whether to split property title rights with an unmarried partner? I am planning to buy a home in the next year or so and my partner has said she will not be able contribute to the deposit or be a signatory on the mortgage. However she will be contributing to the mortgage payments, I guess 50%, and I guess also contributing to upkeep. Mortgages in Switzerland are interest-only so paying half the payments seems fair for half the use of the property. When we buy the property we will have to designate who owns what share of it. I kinda think if she is not on the hook for the mortgage or initial equity then the ownership would be 100% me, but that does also seem a bit unfair if it increases in value. Any advice on what would be reasonable? For additional info we do already own a holiday home together, I put in 3/4 of the deposit which is 50% of the value, and she put in 1/4. We are both on the mortgage and pay 1/2 each. The title is split 3/4 me and 1/4 her. I've paid for 3/4 of big expenses like a new terrace. Because of the interest-only mortgages and low interest rates we would pay approximately half of our current rent if we bought. Swiss tax makes it optimal to keep property roughly 66% mortgaged as the payments are tax deductible. Property is expensive here so I feel we need to get this right. We're pretty tight and not likely to split up, but also not intending to get married.
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Dec 31, 2021 11:37
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I have a lawyer, which is unusual for Swiss property transactions, but as with the last time we bought they'll just ask how we want to split it - and that's what I'm mulling over. Not what's legally possible, but what's fair?
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Dec 31, 2021 16:21
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In the UK the main issue is your rental income will be subject to income tax which can't be offset against mortgage payments. You may also become liable for some capital gains tax depending on when you sell the property. If it's just for a year, and you can get sufficient rental income to offset the costs, this still may be worthwhile. I'd probably sell up and bank the equity until ready to move again.
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Jan 15, 2022 14:37
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5% fees on a sale is loving expensive. How much are US buyers agent fees? What a scam.
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Jan 17, 2022 04:00
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As others have mentioned pollution can be way higher by a busy road and it's very localised. I lived just off Tottenham Court Road in London for a year and it caused me some respiratory issues. Idk where OP is looking but there is often mapping available that can tell you down to street level the historical pollution levels (eg for London https://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/annualmaps.asp) Cool being able to walk home from nightlife but the noise and pollution really sucked. In my own house buying news, unsurprisingly house prices are very high here. I'm off to see the bank manager to explore mortgages which has to be done in person because Switzerland. Not sure it's worth buying vs just staying in this rental.
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Jan 31, 2022 11:42
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Getting similar sticker shock here in CH. I'm looking to buy in maybe a year, a 2-bed in the city is about 1.2 and a 3-bed is 1.7+
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Mar 30, 2022 13:54
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Ham Bankman-Fried (sorry I had to get that out)
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Oct 2, 2023 13:07
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Looks like I am moving towards House-buying Thread: Swiss Edition Looking for an apartment here that is closer in to the city as we are DINKs and don't need more space. We found a 3 bed apartment in a new development that is close to the centre and also also to the metro line that goes to the lake. Ground floor, big terrace which can be accessed directly from living room and all bedrooms. Underground parking with unfortunately only one space per apartment. Spoke with the bank this morning who seem OK with giving us a mortgage for this place on top of our chalet. Mortgage rates are currently about 2.5% here and you can structure the loan in slices fixed for a certain number of years, I guess depending on what you think will happen to the rates. Mortgages are also normally interest-only (once amortised to 66%) which is very different from the UK (and US) method, and that interest is tax-dedictible. Buying property is subject to a notary fee which is maybe equivalent to stamp duty of 5%. I am going to speak with a mortgage broker, they have quite a big upfront fee but apparently can get you good rates, which is obviously important with these interest-only mortgages. Oh also we have to pay 50k CHF upfront as a "reservation" fee, need confirmation we can get it back and the circumstances allowed. Delivery of the building is expected early 2025.
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Oct 3, 2023 14:50
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Inept posted:Make sure to check what your recourse on the 50k is if the developer goes under. That is a good point, thanks
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Oct 3, 2023 22:26
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Crazyweasel posted:something you’d see a family of 4 or 5 comfortably fit in, let’s say 2700+ sq. Ft. Those are hitting like, $800k - $1m or more. $800k would get you a 500 sq ft 1-bed apartment around here (non-US) or something a little bigger in the countryside. We are looking in the $2m range for a 3-bed. Salaries are more or less comparable to the US. Maybe people in the US will need to get used to smaller homes? I wonder if the country will go through a cycle of subdividing homes as has happened in the UK.
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Nov 9, 2023 19:15
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I'm about to sign up for a new-build apartment off plan, I mentioned it before but things move quite slowly here. Very exciting anyway! It's a 3 bed in the city centre and I think will represent a significant quality of life upgrade with all the restaurants and bars etc nearby. Even though no work has started, and we don't have to pay yet, we have to get a mortgage for that whole property agreed with the bank. It's an old fashioned system where the bank wants to look at every aspect of our lives before agreeing to lend the money. There is no such thing as a mortgage calculator here. For the mortgage we need to have 25% deposit, which we also have to show now rather than when we actually need it next year. When the mortgage agreement is ready next week we'll sign on the dotted line and send the developers 50k CHF to reserve our spot. Then there are staged payments as the build progresses. I haven't bought a house off plan before but there is a lot of stuff to choose and customise. Probably not too risky to share the artist's impression, it's the ground floor apartment in the picture. The living room has glass down two walls so it can all open up onto the terrace. 
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Mar 16, 2024 10:26
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Lockback posted:That's awesome! As an FYI final results usually don't look quite like an artist impression (especially the landscaping) so don't fall too much in love, but that looks super nice. Not what I usually think of as a city centre apartment in Switzerland! Thanks! And yes expectations duly tempered.
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Mar 16, 2024 16:17
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