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Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

Can i see a picture of the top of your sink. To see if you actually have room for an air gap.

Using a dishwasher wye direclty before the P trap isnt technically legal but i doubt you want to drill your stainless steel sink (im assuming you have stainless, you can drill your counter top if there is room but it can look tacky) to install an air gap.

Yeah there isnt much room for an air gap and I aint drilling the Corian. A high loop is all that is required by code here. I hear you though, like I said in the OP I know that would fix the issue.

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dyne
May 9, 2003
[blank]

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

the T on its back looks like its flowing in the wrong direction for the vent. I could be seeing it wrong though but it looks like it sweeps to the right.

A laundry sink is deep enough it wont suds up enough to.


* Are you sure that T on its back is not a drain instead of a vent?

What I was calling a vent pipe does veer to the right, and then it runs vertically parallel to the main stack. I think I remember seeing the pipe rejoin the main stack above the sink in our 2nd floor bathroom (which is the highest fixture in the house), and then the main stack goes through the roof.

The whole plumbing setup looks pretty cobbled together

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

dyne posted:

What I was calling a vent pipe does veer to the right, and then it runs vertically parallel to the main stack. I think I remember seeing the pipe rejoin the main stack above the sink in our 2nd floor bathroom (which is the highest fixture in the house), and then the main stack goes through the roof.

The whole plumbing setup looks pretty cobbled together

It sounds like it could be the drain pipe for your lavatory. I wouldn't suggest using it as a vent.

dyne
May 9, 2003
[blank]

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

It sounds like it could be the drain pipe for your lavatory. I wouldn't suggest using it as a vent.
I recently had the walls out all the way up to where it attached to the main stack above the bathroom sink. It wasn't connected to any drain or anything.

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

dyne posted:

I recently had the walls out all the way up to where it attached to the main stack above the bathroom sink. It wasn't connected to any drain or anything.

Well you should be fine getting away with it.

Quick question, where have you gotten most of your plumbing terms? You seem to know a decent amount.

dyne
May 9, 2003
[blank]

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

Well you should be fine getting away with it.

Quick question, where have you gotten most of your plumbing terms? You seem to know a decent amount.
I've just done a bit of googling and picked up the terms :)

dyne fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Aug 26, 2009

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK
You can use a studder vent to vent the laundry tray. but i know in Washington state they arent legal. I don't know if they are up where you live.

el_caballo
Feb 26, 2001
:siren: PEX POSTING :siren:

We just closed on a house last week: 1 1/2 story 3BR/1BA ~1,500 sq ft. A minor fixer upper with a lot of potential but the pipes were all old galvanized, probably from 1946, and were impeding the water pressure.

On the advice of our inspector, we went with PEX and, again on his advice, we did everything ourselves—which means, I did as my "amateur contractor" father told me.

I was hoping someone with more knowledge than me or my father could take a look at these photos and let me know if we did something horribly wrong. My pops is the "LET'S TRY THIS!" kind of DIYer and sometimes gets ahead of himself.

It was a pretty simple job on paper: just one bath, all plumbing on the first floor. Of course, getting all the old galvanized out was a bitch, even with the Sawzall, and, as it turned out, all the pipes in the bathroom were tiled over inside the wall, so we had to keep and use the old galvanized bath hookups in the basement. I imagine that these short runs of galvanized are probably slightly to moderately impeded but we'll probably eventually just go through the floor for the bathroom sink and toilet. I don't know what we'll do about the shower.

After we hooked everything up, we turned on the water and there were no leaks... except for a small drip from the 30 year old heavy duty ball valve my dad brought for the main shutoff (as seen in the first picture, on the other side of the meter). There were no leaks at all in the PEX but there did seem to be a lot of crap in the lines knocked loose from all the banging, Sawzall-ing etc.

So now the water is turned off before the meter and we're just waiting to get another, not-30 year old ball valve to use as a main shutoff and we should be good to go.

Thanks for looking, and if anyone is interested in my PEX IMPRESSIONS, let me know and I'll write something up.

(click for big ones)








:frogsiren: One of only two runs where there might be a problem. :frogsiren: This is a long run, resting on top of the duct work/furnace. I didn't do this run and I see now that it is touching an exhaust-looking thing coming out of the top of the furnace. I don't know if it is actually the exhaust. I need to go back and check.






The question mark about the bathroom sink is because there are three hookups for four fixtures. The shower and the toilet are pretty obvious and the bathroom sink is getting its cold water from one of them. We just haven't had the water turned on long enough to play with the shutoffs and figure out which it is.






:frogsiren: The other run I have any real concerns about. :frogsiren: The hot water from the heater is running over that gas pipe and over. There's not a huge amount of stress there but it's a little weird and it was the only good way to get to that joist to get a solid support for the shutoff.


2nd view of the above.










(Sorry for the image dump.)

el_caballo fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Sep 1, 2009

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK


It looks like you did a decent job to support it. It should be supported every 32 inches vertical and horizontal.

I would make sure the pex piping will not be rubbing on any sharp metal or wood corners. It can give it a chance to fail in the future if it does.

Turd Herder fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Sep 1, 2009

el_caballo
Feb 26, 2001

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

It looks like you did a decent job to support it. It should be supported every 32 inches vertical and horizontal.

I would make sure the pex piping will not be rubbing on any sharp metal or wood corners. It can give it a chance to fail in the future if it does.

Thanks for looking. There is one length where it's well over 32" and needs an easy to nail in support but, after that and the laundry sink, everything should be solid... except for those outdoor faucets. I need to really screw those down (they weren't before) and also come up with some way of locking them down in the basement as well.

Anyway, even though no one asked, I figured I'd give back to the thread and write about how I lost my PEX virginity.

PEX POSTIN'
(This is coming from someone with no previous plumbing experience and has only spent one weekend working with the stuff)

So PEX is some kind of goddamn space plastic as you can see in these two YouTubes: Part 1, Part 2. It can basically bend 90 deg. without using a fitting but it's still a pretty wide turn and, depending on the size of the PEX, you might need need a heatgun/hair dryer and a plastic elbow frame to hold the shape and nail it down.

I believe we got 100' of 3/4" for around $35 and a couple 25' rolls of 1/2" for around $6 each. You get the brass fittings for about $1-3 apiece, depending on how complex they are. The real expense is the crimping tool: $100. Again, I'm talking out of my rear end here but I believe the tool is one of the most important parts of the whole system. I wouldn't skimp on it. We got one that looked like a bolt cutter.

The way it works, for those not familiar: You cut the PEX as straight and as clean as possible. You could use a hacksaw (maybe) or even a utility knife but it's worth buying one of those clamp-style PVC pipe cutters. We got a $10, simple pliers-style cutter that had a razor sharp blade that squeezed down on a perpendicular pipe channel. It wasn't specifically made for PEX but worked perfectly.

It also helps to have a second person straightening out the PEX with both hands while you cut in the middle. Unless you're really careful, it's hard to get a perfect straight cut when it's trying to bend back to the coil shape.

Anyway, with your clean cut PEX, you put the brass fitting with its flanges inside the pipe, as far as it will go. Then you take a copper ring and put it about 1/4" to 1/8" from the fitting and then crimp it down, always with the tool at 90 deg. to the pipe. Then you check the crimp with the "go/no-go" checker: a flat piece of steel with really accurate notches cut out of it. If the "go" notch fits over the ring and the "no-go" notch does not, then the crimp is good and you can keep on going.

Note about fittings and rings: Supposedly there was a big recall on Zurn fittings and maybe rings. I've read various reasons for the recall: 1) They cheaped out on the brass in the fittings and, in certain areas with hard (I think) water, it reacted with the brass and leached out zinc (or something), which clogged the line. 2) the flanges on the fittings weren't high enough for the rings to grip (although you'd think the go/no-go checker would catch this). Or 3) the copper rings themselves had some sort of problem. A lot of people out there are confused as to what the problem is and I'm just repeating their BS.
(BTW: I believe my tool/fittings/rings were basically all Sioux Chief brand and seemed solid.)

So one of the big reasons to do PEX is to do the monoblock thing, where you basically have a circuit breaker box on your wall for your water. Cold and hot water comes in, goes to the monoblock and then branches out from the outputs, which each have their own shutoff valve.

Since our place is so small and simple, we just used the PEX like copper and followed the old galvanized runs almost exactly. Once you get the old pipes out (or you just leave them in), the PEX goes up really fast. Almost too fast. The thing to keep in mind is that the copper ring crimper needs to be opened completely to crimp the rings and it needs to be at a 90 deg. angle. If you're putting up a fixture or run that needs to be crimped horizontally, then you'd better have enough room between the joists to open the tool and get it in there OR you have to make sure you crimp the horizontal ring first before you crimp the rest.

This is probably obvious to everyone else but, for me and since we were moving so fast, we did have one that we almost had to do over because it was between the joists. Luckily, we were able to flex it down to come at it from an angle otherwise we would have had to use...

The Decrimping Tool which is basically just a clipper where only one side cuts and the other side is a rounded post. So you cut the PEX near where you made your bad crimp and bring the fitting down and then cut the ring off by putting the post inside the fitting and the blade on the ring. It cuts through the ring and into the PEX but not far enough to hit the fitting.

What else... It needs to be supported every 32" and it shrinks something like 1" per every 10. deg for every 100'(ft) of tubing. We didn't do any vertical runs really, but there's some rules for those too. You can't use it outside. It's supposed to be really forgiving about freezing and thawing but UV rays will degrade the plastic.

Oh and, after looking around on the internet, plumbers apparently loving hate PEX, partly because of that fiasco with the other space age plastic pipe in the 80s where it all eventually failed and probably more likely because any idiot can run fresh water PEX through their house. Although, I'll bet drains are a different story.

I guess the only other thing is: Don't let your trigger happy father take the Sawzall to all the old pipes until you're sure you can run PEX straight to all the fixtures. My dad made a cut really close to a galvanized elbow joint that we could have saved by easily twisting the straight horizontal old pipe out of it. Then we went back upstairs for the first time in 10 hours and realized that we'd have to bust tile to get PEX all the way to the bathroom fixtures. :downs:

Instead, I had to wrench for about two hours with about 15 deg. of clearance between the joists to get the stubby elbow joint off and then run the PEX into the vertical galvanized pipe.

Let me know if you would like to go on about the virtues of the wonderful new product PEX and how it's changing the world we live and plumb in.

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

el_caballo posted:

pex talk

Its good to see someone so zealous about pex. But vanguard pex which you used has some draw backs. (vangurad is one maker of the crimp pex so i just refer to it as vanguard pex.)

The draw backs is it will freeze and fail in colder temps. There is no way around it. I do like how the brass fittings are quick and easily to install but, they restrict flow since they fit inside the pipe.

The pex i enjoy is Uponor (use to be called wirsbo) The failure rate is less from what Ive heard. It takes a different type of pex ( i beleive its Pex-c, where you used pex-A )where you expand the pex and a ring made out of the same material as pex piping.

After expanding and rotating the expanding head as you do it. You throw the fitting in there quickly. It will shrink back down onto the plastic or brass barbed fitting. The only issue with uponor is when its cold it doesnt like to shrink back down to normal size and seal. Also if you scar or get dirt between the pipe and fitting it has a chance to leak. (if the pipe doesn't seal you take a heat gun to it and gently heat up the ring/pipe on fitting that leaks.)

The cool parts are though. If you kink the pipe, you can take a heat gun to it and heat it up. It will turn clear as glass once you get it hot enough. It will totally remove the kink as it cools.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
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Red PEX is supposed to be for hot water, and blue for cold, that's why they make it in different colors! Now you've gone and confused everyone :P

I found my wife's garden shears to cut PEX even better than expensive special-made cutters.

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

grover posted:

Red PEX is supposed to be for hot water, and blue for cold, that's why they make it in different colors! Now you've gone and confused everyone :P

I found my wife's garden shears to cut PEX even better than expensive special-made cutters.


When i do a side job I'll just use white pex so there is no confusion at all.

el_caballo
Feb 26, 2001

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

Its good to see someone so zealous about pex. But vanguard pex which you used has some draw backs. (vangurad is one maker of the crimp pex so i just refer to it as vanguard pex.)

The draw backs is it will freeze and fail in colder temps. There is no way around it. I do like how the brass fittings are quick and easily to install but, they restrict flow since they fit inside the pipe.

The pex i enjoy is Uponor (use to be called wirsbo) The failure rate is less from what Ive heard. It takes a different type of pex ( i beleive its Pex-c, where you used pex-A )where you expand the pex and a ring made out of the same material as pex piping.

After expanding and rotating the expanding head as you do it. You throw the fitting in there quickly. It will shrink back down onto the plastic or brass barbed fitting. The only issue with uponor is when its cold it doesnt like to shrink back down to normal size and seal. Also if you scar or get dirt between the pipe and fitting it has a chance to leak. (if the pipe doesn't seal you take a heat gun to it and gently heat up the ring/pipe on fitting that leaks.)

The cool parts are though. If you kink the pipe, you can take a heat gun to it and heat it up. It will turn clear as glass once you get it hot enough. It will totally remove the kink as it cools.

The stuff we used was Nibco Dura-Pex. All the stuff on PEX in general that I've read is that it's more resistant to freezing than copper pipe and, I would assume, lovely corroded galvanized as well. I don't know if they were talking about a specific kind of PEX.

Also, and I'm not saying I believe them 100%, but Nibco says their Dura-Pex will expand and contract and is freeze resistant.

EDIT: and Dura-Pex is Pex-C and it doesn't mention anything about expansion fittings in the brochure, just compression fittings. (There's a little thing on Pex ABC in that FAQ I linked to.)

Seems like Vanguard Pex uses the Pex-B silane method of crosslinking (which makes it strong) which has lower crosslinking than Dura-Pex (hit with an electron beam: Pex-C) or Uponor (Engel/peroxide method: Pex-A). From what I've read, the electron beam method and the peroxide method have about the same amount of crosslinking but the Pex-B has less, but still more than other plastic.

el_caballo fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Sep 4, 2009

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

el_caballo posted:

The stuff we used was Nibco Dura-Pex. All the stuff on PEX in general that I've read is that it's more resistant to freezing than copper pipe and, I would assume, lovely corroded galvanized as well. I don't know if they were talking about a specific kind of PEX.

Also, and I'm not saying I believe them 100%, but Nibco says their Dura-Pex will expand and contract and is freeze resistant.

EDIT: and Dura-Pex is Pex-C and it doesn't mention anything about expansion fittings in the brochure, just compression fittings. (There's a little thing on Pex ABC in that FAQ I linked to.)

Seems like Vanguard Pex uses the Pex-B silane method of crosslinking (which makes it strong) which has lower crosslinking than Dura-Pex (hit with an electron beam: Pex-C) or Uponor (Engel/peroxide method: Pex-A). From what I've read, the electron beam method and the peroxide method have about the same amount of crosslinking but the Pex-B has less, but still more than other plastic.

Oops i had my pex backwards on the A and C.

I love their wording. Its freeze resistant not freeze proof. Anything will freeze just give it time. The way a pipe breaks is when two different places freeze and connect. When one spot freezes the water has a place to expand outward. Once it reaches a point where it cant. It will expand outward and bust pipes.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
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Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

Oops i had my pex backwards on the A and C.

I love their wording. Its freeze resistant not freeze proof. Anything will freeze just give it time. The way a pipe breaks is when two different places freeze and connect. When one spot freezes the water has a place to expand outward. Once it reaches a point where it cant. It will expand outward and bust pipes.
PEX will stretch and expand instead of burst, though. Do you recall offhand how many times PEX can typically freeze/thaw before cracking?

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

grover posted:

PEX will stretch and expand instead of burst, though. Do you recall offhand how many times PEX can typically freeze/thaw before cracking?

Yes it will stretch and expand to a certain point, but it will eventually fail in my experience.
I've also heard of water getting between the pipe and fitting. It will then expand the ring and once it thaw's the pipe will blow apart.

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

grover posted:

PEX will stretch and expand instead of burst, though. Do you recall offhand how many times PEX can typically freeze/thaw before cracking?

I'm trying right now with a tube of half inch pex filled completely with water with out any air bubbles. I have froze and thawed it twice so far. I don't believe much will happen since it has no pressure behind it to give it the chance to fail. Next step will be putting a schrader valves on it and put 60+ psi on it and then continue.

edit:

I also heard some interesting news on KITEC and Zurn crimp fittings. They have a huge class action lawsuit due to bad brass which cause a horrible failure rate in Las Vegas.

I believe KITEC is out of business now since they have more then one class action lawsuit from what Ive heard.

Here is the link to the class action lawsuits website

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/may/15/settlements-adding-kitec-class-action-lawsuit/

Turd Herder fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Sep 13, 2009

Mthrboard
Aug 24, 2002
Grimey Drawer
Is anyone here familiar with Richmond tankless water heaters, specifically model RTGL74PVN? I just spent the past 8 hours replacing a 10 year old 85 gallon heater with one of these tankless models, and I can't get it to work. The water is flowing fine to the heater and out from it, but whenever I run hot water, the control panel displays error codes C2 and 11. The manual says code 11 means the gas valve isn't open completely, but it is completely open, and as far as I can tell, the gas is flowing. The manual says nothing about code C2, and nothing on Google is giving me any results. There should be plenty of gas, I have a high pressure main going to 1" black pipe, with a 3/4" bushing and about 30 feet of black pipe with 6 90' elbows and a tee for the sediment trap. Does the sediment trap have to be directly below the gas valve on the unit? I installed it like this: Gas valve -> Close Coupling -> Union -> Close coupling -> 90' Elbow -> 8" Nipple -> Tee -> Down to sediment trap and up to gas supply. The picture in the manual shows Valve -> Coupling -> Union -> Coupling -> Tee -> Down to sediment, sideways to gas supply. I can change it if it will help. Lastly, would too much gas pressure cause a problem? I didn't install a pressure regulator, but can get and install one tomorrow. This is my first time working with gas, so I'm not familiar with all the caveats.

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

Mthrboard posted:

Is anyone here familiar with Richmond tankless water heaters, specifically model RTGL74PVN? I just spent the past 8 hours replacing a 10 year old 85 gallon heater with one of these tankless models, and I can't get it to work. The water is flowing fine to the heater and out from it, but whenever I run hot water, the control panel displays error codes C2 and 11. The manual says code 11 means the gas valve isn't open completely, but it is completely open, and as far as I can tell, the gas is flowing. The manual says nothing about code C2, and nothing on Google is giving me any results. There should be plenty of gas, I have a high pressure main going to 1" black pipe, with a 3/4" bushing and about 30 feet of black pipe with 6 90' elbows and a tee for the sediment trap. Does the sediment trap have to be directly below the gas valve on the unit? I installed it like this: Gas valve -> Close Coupling -> Union -> Close coupling -> 90' Elbow -> 8" Nipple -> Tee -> Down to sediment trap and up to gas supply. The picture in the manual shows Valve -> Coupling -> Union -> Coupling -> Tee -> Down to sediment, sideways to gas supply. I can change it if it will help. Lastly, would too much gas pressure cause a problem? I didn't install a pressure regulator, but can get and install one tomorrow. This is my first time working with gas, so I'm not familiar with all the caveats.

Whats the BTU on that water heater? Im thinking you could have undersized it with the 3/4 running that far but untill i know the BTU's i wont know for sure.

Mthrboard
Aug 24, 2002
Grimey Drawer

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

Whats the BTU on that water heater? Im thinking you could have undersized it with the 3/4 running that far but untill i know the BTU's i wont know for sure.

The max is 199,900 according to the manual. We have someone coming out to check the pressure at the heater today, and I guess we could swap it out for 1" pipe if we have to. drat, I was hoping this would be easy. :(

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

Mthrboard posted:

The max is 199,900 according to the manual. We have someone coming out to check the pressure at the heater today, and I guess we could swap it out for 1" pipe if we have to. drat, I was hoping this would be easy. :(

Did you use flex or 3/4 black iron?

Take some pictures of your set up if you don't mind.

mr.belowaverage
Aug 16, 2004

we have an irc channel at #SA_MeetingWomen
How do I tie into my municipal drain when I have to cut back to the foundation wall? The old clay coming into the house goes to an immediate T, with no room to join in any regular way. Can I slide something into it?

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

mr.belowaverage posted:

How do I tie into my municipal drain when I have to cut back to the foundation wall? The old clay coming into the house goes to an immediate T, with no room to join in any regular way. Can I slide something into it?

I am unfamiliar with any ways to do so. You may be able to slide some ABS inside of it but doing so you'd most likely just gently caress up the clay pipe.

edit: If you do find a way, please share it because im very interested.

Turd Herder fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Sep 22, 2009

Mthrboard
Aug 24, 2002
Grimey Drawer

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

Did you use flex or 3/4 black iron?

Take some pictures of your set up if you don't mind.

I used black pipe. I can still take pictures if you're interested, but I solved the problem earlier today. The gas company came out yesterday, measured the pressure and it was way too high. I found a regulator at a local plumbing supply house, picked it up this morning, and got it working this afternoon. Now I just have to pick a time to de-solder the male adapter I installed for the TP valve and replace it with a female adapter (I swear the valve had a female end when I looked at it in the store, and somehow it re-forged itself in the box while I was installing the heater). I installed it with a brass coupler for the time being, but it's going to be sitting there taunting me until I make it right. I may have advocated buying from the big box stores in the past due to their prices, but after this fiasco, I don't think I'll ever go back. It doesn't make sense to me why a store that sells tankless water heaters wouldn't carry the required accessories to install them. I had to order the vent kit online because they only carry a through-the-wall kit (I had to vent through the roof), and they don't carry and can't even order the pressure regulator I needed to make it work.

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

Mthrboard posted:

I used black pipe. I can still take pictures if you're interested, but I solved the problem earlier today. The gas company came out yesterday, measured the pressure and it was way too high. I found a regulator at a local plumbing supply house, picked it up this morning, and got it working this afternoon. Now I just have to pick a time to de-solder the male adapter I installed for the TP valve and replace it with a female adapter (I swear the valve had a female end when I looked at it in the store, and somehow it re-forged itself in the box while I was installing the heater). I installed it with a brass coupler for the time being, but it's going to be sitting there taunting me until I make it right. I may have advocated buying from the big box stores in the past due to their prices, but after this fiasco, I don't think I'll ever go back. It doesn't make sense to me why a store that sells tankless water heaters wouldn't carry the required accessories to install them. I had to order the vent kit online because they only carry a through-the-wall kit (I had to vent through the roof), and they don't carry and can't even order the pressure regulator I needed to make it work.

I'd still like a picture to see your installation job.

Also the T/P valves can be piped in Cpvc in washington. I dont even put tape or dope on them causee if they leak they will leak. And with the 3/4 open at the bottom it wont really get much back pressure to cause it to leak out of the threads that are screwed into the T/P.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down
Good evening goons, I am unsure of what information to even provide so please bare with me and let me know what I don't know!

I'm trying to track down a sulfury/eggy smell that fills my basement and can be smelled on the next floor up many times that we run our washer. We have it draining into a laundry tub. It was snaked about two years ago due to a slow draining problem and has not had any problems since.

Where should I begin the troubleshooting? My wife has tried running the wash with various things (just bleach, vinegar, good intentions, etc) and none have worked. We are using city water (Detroits finest!) and not well.

What other information can I provide?

Thanks!

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
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TraderStav posted:

What other information can I provide?

Thanks!
1) Is the washer and sink in your basement?

2) Where is the smell coming from, and is the P-trap the smell is coming from getting siphoned dry after you do a load of laundry?

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

VERY quick reply, thanks!

grover posted:

1) Is the washer and sink in your basement?
Yes, side by side.


grover posted:

2) Do you have any floor drains in your basement? If so, are the P-traps getting siphoned dry after you do a load of laundry?

I do have floor drains, for years they were under carpet and after a recent sump-pump failure I just ripped them up to find them. I am unsure of what a P-trap is and do not know how I can tell if they are siphoned dry after the load. What do I look for and what does it imply?

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

TraderStav posted:

Good evening goons, I am unsure of what information to even provide so please bare with me and let me know what I don't know!

I'm trying to track down a sulfury/eggy smell that fills my basement and can be smelled on the next floor up many times that we run our washer. We have it draining into a laundry tub. It was snaked about two years ago due to a slow draining problem and has not had any problems since.

Where should I begin the troubleshooting? My wife has tried running the wash with various things (just bleach, vinegar, good intentions, etc) and none have worked. We are using city water (Detroits finest!) and not well.

What other information can I provide?

Thanks!

I agree with grover it sounds like your trap could be getting sucked dry due to a clogged vent.

After a load of laundry put a cup of water in the drain and see if that helps.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
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The p-trap is an ingenious invention that uses a small bit of standing water to block the sewer stink from seeping out every sink and drain in your house. The ones in your sink are easy to see, but floor drains, showers, etc, all use them too. They work in tandem with vent pipes and stacks- if a vent is clogged and you dump a lot of water in the pipe at once (like when a washer drains), the p-traps can get siphoned out, and the stink will escape. I suspect this is what's happening to you. If you can verify, we can try to help point you in the right direction :)

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down
Interesting. So take a cup of water and put it into the floor drain? I see the p-trap underneath my laundry tub.

My wife insists that the smell starts right when the water comes out of the hose and not yet into the drain, does that mean anything or is she mistaken?

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

TraderStav posted:

Interesting. So take a cup of water and put it into the floor drain? I see the p-trap underneath my laundry tub.

My wife insists that the smell starts right when the water comes out of the hose and not yet into the drain, does that mean anything or is she mistaken?

If the trap was being siphoned , by putting a cup of water in it it would fill it again and keep out dewr gas. But if your wife says the smell is coming out of the discharge from the washing machine. It must be something from the washer itself.

mr.belowaverage
Aug 16, 2004

we have an irc channel at #SA_MeetingWomen
I took some pictures of my main drain junction at the foundation, since I haven't figured out what I'm supposed to do with it yet. I really need an easy to implement solution, since I can't really live in my house right now.

The broken wye shows that section is clay, and I think the T below it is, too, but it's impossible to say for sure. I have no idea what the small pipe is for. It wasn't connected to anything; I found it when I excavated the floor.

The right side is the foundation wall, it is fieldstone and about 4 feet thick.



Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

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You have the option of doing it right or you can do it the easy way. The right way would be to dig up the pipe on the other side and use no hub bands and re do those fittings. Or you can do it the easy way and put an epoxy putty over it and it should hold it.

I'd really suggest digging up the pipe and removing it.

mr.belowaverage
Aug 16, 2004

we have an irc channel at #SA_MeetingWomen

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:


I'd really suggest digging up the pipe and removing it.

Looks like that's what I'll be doing:


Edit: for another question. At the next corner in the basement, there is a pipe going straight into the ground. It is about 2" diameter, and if I whack it, you can hear water at the bottom. It doesn't seem to have any purpose or connection. Guesses?

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

mr.belowaverage posted:

Looks like that's what I'll be doing:


Edit: for another question. At the next corner in the basement, there is a pipe going straight into the ground. It is about 2" diameter, and if I whack it, you can hear water at the bottom. It doesn't seem to have any purpose or connection. Guesses?

I made a stupid mistakeearlier, That is cast iron not clay pipe.(just clarifying for you above really)

Now onto your current problem. Honestly with out tracing the pipe to where it goes i'd have no idea what it could serve.

Turd Herder fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Oct 11, 2009

mr.belowaverage
Aug 16, 2004

we have an irc channel at #SA_MeetingWomen

Rd Rash 1000cc posted:

I made a stupid mistakeearlier, That is cast iron not clay pipe.(just clarifying for you above really)

Now onto your current problem. Honestly with out tracing the pipe to where it goes i'd have no idea what it could serve.

Yeah, I realized it was iron and was attempting to separate the pipe at the hubs. I chipped away all the crud and it turns out the pipe had been leaking and had set the clay soil around the pipe so it was clay-coated. The iron was all flaking and broken in places, and the whole T-fitting ultimately broke apart.

Would an old boiler have its own water supply? I think the mystery pipe and the small pipe next to the drain are both old old supply lines.

One last question: When I dig up outside the wall, if the pipe looks rough, would I typically be responsible for the entire length that lies on my own property? The location of the pipe in my wall is about 30 feet from the property line nearest the street.

mr.belowaverage fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Oct 11, 2009

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK

mr.belowaverage posted:

Yeah, I realized it was iron and was attempting to separate the pipe at the hubs. I chipped away all the crud and it turns out the pipe had been leaking and had set the clay soil around the pipe so it was clay-coated. The iron was all flaking and broken in places, and the whole T-fitting ultimately broke apart.

Would an old boiler have its own water supply? I think the mystery pipe and the small pipe next to the drain are both old old supply lines.

One last question: When I dig up outside the wall, if the pipe looks rough, would I typically be responsible for the entire length that lies on my own property? The location of the pipe in my wall is about 30 feet from the property line nearest the street.

Honestly I'd only replace what you have too. If the pipe is still good 5 feet from your house i wouldn't worry about it. Technically all the pipe on your property line is your problem though.

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Tigertron
Jan 19, 2007

Tiger, tiger, burning bright
Apprentice plumber checking in, I started just two weeks ago. We are small, just three of us, we cover plumbing and ac/heat. There is something very rewarding about working with your hands and getting a job done right. Plus the pay is very rewarding as well.

On my second week we did our first sewer bursting job (practiced on one of their houses first) and have a second scheduled before we take our first real job. For those unfamiliar it is a way for replacing a sewer line without having to dig a trench through the yard. Two holes are dug for an entry and exit point where the new pipe is pulled through the old clay breaking right through the middle. Digging for these jobs is really back breaking I dug 6 1/2 ft deep closest to the street. It is really cool work and very little labor aside from the digging but thats my job.

Anyone have any experience working with sewer bursting and have some tips to make the job easier. We are having the most trouble figuring out how to recover the bursting head once it reaches the end.

I just have to say that plumbing is a great profession and I love the respect people give us.

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