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the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D
Just curious, what stuff do you guys use to project gobos/fake light shapes?

I saw this light blaster thing this week for stills. http://petapixel.com/2013/07/10/light-blaster-uses-a-speedlight-and-lens-to-project-slides-onto-your-photos/

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the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

VoodooXT posted:

ETC Source4 Lekos/ellipsoidals since I work in a performing arts venue, though I've also used Dedolights on a few film sets.

1st AD posted:

I use gobos to project a logo onto the wall for events. Don't think I've ever used one while lighting something for video.

Gotcha, those look interesting.
I guess they're a niche thing unless you're in theatre. There's not much on the web about this stuff.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

1st AD posted:

Is anyone actually fatigued by the specs wars all these camera manufacturers seem to be getting into this year? Like everybody is talking about the GH4 like it's awesome because of 4k and 10-bit out and FRAME RATES, but are they not looking at the footage and realizing it kind of looks like rear end?

I'm not a first adopter or anything so it doesn't bother me that much. I suspect 4k will take a while to grow into great+affordable anyway.

Having not bothered watching the GH4 stuff, what specifically is wrong? The rendering or is it shutter type stuff?

That said, I've seen so many gimbal/cameras/sliders that they all blend together now. I swear when Movi came out, there were nothing similar but now there's a good 5-6 companies doing similar at different prices.

So yeah, nothing made me poo poo my pants-just more stuff coming out.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

FreudianSlippers posted:

Basically I want to try and find a way to get a decent image that it's too hard to color correct while also not having to spend 95% of my budget on rental fees. Should I follow the gearheads advice and rent a really fancy professional camera, should I be a cheapskate and try and make it work with my own reliable but rather cheap camera or should I try to find a happy medium by renting a C100?

This may help if you have access to After Effects and end up using a dslr. http://vimeo.com/m/56587479 . Alternatively, there's a lot out there on using LUTs as a base in Davinci Resolve (which is free to grade in for 1080p).

I'd suggest hitting up nofilmschool's and fstoppers sites-all free but there is amazing tips on shooting.

Nofilmschool had a really good post on shooting action fight scenes (eg lenses to use) and said that a lot of fights are shot at 22 fps with some frames cut out. I remember the lens choice had to do with compressing space in the scene.

On this note, film riot's YouTube channel has been using the 5dmk2 for ages and just did two video on their switch to the C100. They got impressive stuff out of both cameras.

I'm not in front of my machine but you should be able to find these pretty easily.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

Slim Pickens posted:

Uh, that just looks like wobbly poo poo, sorry. If you need a shoulder rig and only have a tripod, you can just fold it up and put it on your shoulder. It'll be more stable than regular handheld, at least. I've also pivoted the tripod on two feet for a dolly effect for a few projects. That said, none of these are a replacement for a slider, dolly, jib or actual steadicam. Look up some DIY steadicams, even a cheap gimbal can help quite a bit.

I posted my last attempt at a danadolly here. It looked ok, but was a little crooked, too narrow for any sizeable rig, and my lovely welds broke during a shoot. I finished version 2 a couple months ago.



Altogether it was pretty cheap, the junior/baby adapters were the most expensive part at $15 each. I'll also want to put a ball leveler head on there so I can slap on a fluid head and not worry about making a bowl adapter in plywood and all that.

I've looked at building one of these myself since a bought one is out of my price range.

Did you use instructions online or just built from experience?

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

keyframe posted:

Do we have anyone here with an Ursa? I am going to be pulling the trigger on Ursa Mini when it is available in June and would love to hear how you liked working with the Ursa.

A lot of people weren't happy about the fixed noise pattern from memory. That said, I'm interested in the mini - at least the version with the updated sensor depending on how well it compares to the Kinemax and BMCC in terms of look and usability.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D
I hadn't seen Bolex footage until now for some reason and yup, that poo poo stands out bad - average grade or not.

https://vimeo.com/128428344

Comparison of Red One MX, Sony F-35, Digital Bolex 16, Ursa Mini 4.6K and the Arri Alexa Mini

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D
Everyone keeps telling me that the blackmagic pocket camera is really good. I saw Matt Scott said he cut stuff with other, more expensive cameras and it still held up.

I'm thinking of getting on to chuck on my gimbal (came TV single) but then I saw that the micro cinema is basically the same sensor but it also does 60 frames a second.

Any opinions on the two cameras? Obviously, I'm going to have to shell money for batteries, an IR filter and maybe battery plate but just curious for any stories of working with either camera. I know they both probably need a monitor, no big deal.

Edit: it's mostly for fashion clients and narrative work, if that's important info.

the_lion fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Jun 15, 2017

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

VoodooXT posted:

While I've never used it, by and large it's pretty similar to the Pocket, which gives pretty fantastic images. It seems that BMD designed it to be a better version of the Pocket since it addresses some of the bigger complaints about the Pocket, like the form factor and battery. I think the best thing you're buying with BM cameras is their color science, absolutely wonderful stuff unlike RED where their color science doesn't match their sensor.

Thanks for the info. I've been torn between buying something like a GH5 and shooting ProRes, or one of these cameras for a while. GH5 would probably push the payload of the gimbal though.

Coming from canon, where the colour science for skin is really good (no 4k though) it's good to know I'll still have that if I go blackmagic.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D
Anyone use a speedbooster on the micro? Just curious if there's a good one to go with.

keyframe posted:

It is a good rear end camera. Saw it used in a bunch of movies we worked on. I saw stuff shot with micro that cuts with Alexa footage.

I have yet to see a gh5 footage that doesn't look like rear end in the dynamic range department.

Good to know! Maybe I haven't done enough gh5 research here, but I was planning to use an atomos which would probably bypass the issue. The main reason I choose the micro instead is the weight: using my current lenses will be over the payload limit of my gimbal with the gh5.

Frogfingers posted:

I was tossing up between a Blackmagic (production camera) or a GH4 and it seemed pretty apparent to me the only way to the GH4 to the same level is by outputting straight onto an Atomos by spoofing log style on that. So you're essentially going to need the same setup as a pocket camera.

Yeah, that's true. I figured the monitor/recorder was a given with both set-ups anyway. Shooting 4k is nice and all for cropping, but I think I'd rather have more control in post and a more filmic look.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D
Okay, i'm trying to figure out a good camera that the college I work at should go with.

Just on specs and price alone, the black magic ursa mini (new one) sounds great. However, I know from what i've read that getting that a good copy of the usra mini (or pro) is actually quite hard. A lot of people have returned these or regretted buying one. From what i've read, there's a problem with the sensor tinting things purple. (I forget where I read this, but pretty sure it was the black magic forums).

So i'm looking at some sort of camera that shoots things raw at a reasonable res that will be less problematic/more stable.
Good raw shooting cameras i'm not familiar with (i don't shoot raw 98% of the time besides magic lantern fuckarounds) so any advice would be stellar!

Students mostly use this camera to shoot for VFX green screen or shooting documentary type footage.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

keyframe posted:

The purple tint issue is fixed long ago. Pro doesn't have it.

BM quality control is much better nowadays compared to their older days. I can't recommend the mini pro enough.

It is? That's good to know! It was the lowest priced camera that did what we were looking for.


powderific posted:

They kinda suck in low light but not sure you're gonna find anything else in the same price range with raw. Ours has been very stable. I'm not super psyched about it but it was the best option we could afford.

I don't think the low light will be an issue, we have lights for vfx shots. I'm assuming you mean night shooting, probably won't be used for that too much.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

powderific posted:

In that case it's the best thing I can think of, I'd say go for it. Just to be clear though, you are looking at the 4.6k yeah?

Yeah, just the 4.6k I read the older ursa has fixed noise pattern issues.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

Gunjin posted:

So now that I've had a couple of days to play around with the BMPCC4K I have to say, I really like it. It's not perfect, but it's going to be real good for a lot of uses.

First my (minor) complaints:

1) The touchscreen being fixed is a bit annoying, though small on camera monitors are so cheap now that you can buy a 5"-7" one if you are doing something like solo travel vlogging and still come out spending less than the other cameras this is competing with .

2) No continuous autofocus, it's not a problem for what I do, but I know it's an absolute deal breaker for some people.

3) The on board audio is meh (to be fair all on board camera audio sucks), the microphones are also positioned in a really awkward spot, if you're hand holding the camera you've got to be really careful not to brush up against them. They also pick up the sounds from using the control knobs and the lens hitting the end of its zoom travel.

4) Battery life could be better. I get about 45 minutes out of a Canon LP-E6, a bit less out of a generic one. LP-E6 are dirt cheap though, which mitigates it a bit. Also, the Canon branded ones give me an actual % of life remaining, the generic that came with the camera just show a battery pictogram at various levels of fullness so it's harder to tell when that one is going to run out.

For the type of shooting I do none of these are an issue.


The good stuff:

1) The image looks nice. Blackmagic have done a good job with their colors and I don't think anything in this price range comes close. It's going to be really easy to match this with the Ursa mini pro.

2) Low light performance is pretty good, best for a Blackmagic camera so far. I'd be fine using 3200, and 6400 is bit grainy/noisy for my taste but it's usable especially for something documentary style (it cleans up decently with a denoise too). Higher than that is there, and if you absolutely have to get something recorded and have no light it'll do. I was playing around with 25600 in my office with the lights turned off and the only illumination coming from my computer monitor and it produce a usable, if very grainy, image. One quirk, because of how the dual native ISO work, 1250 is actually cleaner than 1000.

3) The touchscreen is real nice (other than the not swiveling thing). Bright, clear, and the user interface is great. Blackmagic have killed it with their user interface, everything is easy to find, makes sense, and nothing is buried 4 layers deep in some obscure sub-menu.

4) It's a good size and weight. If I were shooting something like a wedding reception or a corporate party I wouldn't mind carrying it around for a few hours. One caveat, it's wide, if you want to use it on a gimbal you're probably going to need an extra tripod quick release and plate so you can offset it. Some new gimbals claim to fit it (Moza air 2, Ronin-S). It's also a good size for tight locations like car interiors, or something like a car hood mount.

5) It's pretty drat flexible with recording media and gives you plenty of codec and framerate options. One warning here, I haven't found anything that will let you do uncompressed raw 4K at 60fps, I can do 30fps with my Cfast cards (550 MB/s Anglebirds) but 60 drops frames. I can do 60 fps in ProRes HQ or Raw 3:1 though. Not even the USB-C Samsung T5 can handle it. On the topic of the USB-C port, it's a nice addition, we sometimes have to record these 8 hour training seminars (it is as boring as it sounds) and the 500GB SSD will record 556 minutes at 1080p in ProRes 422. It's supposed to get .braw in a firmware update which I'm looking forward to, I've been using .braw on the Ursa mini pro and I like it a lot.

For lenses we picked up the Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8 and Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm f/2.8. I've mostly used the 12-40 so far and I've been quite happy with it, sharp throughout its zoom range, focuses smoothly. A touch heavy, but feels very well constructed. If I had to get just one general purpose lens this is where I'd start.

I think the BMPCC4K is going to end up very popular. Almost any situation where you see someone using a stills camera for video this is probably going to be better. Corporate, documentaries, weddings, low budget commercials, music videos, indy/student films. I wouldn't be surprised to see it become the dominant camera in the corporate space.

I've rambled enough, if you've got any specific questions let me know and I'll try to answer them.

Thanks for the review on this, I'm still waiting on mine. The facebook group for the camera has been real interesting, a lot of people found external battery solutions that do/don't work. I didn't know about the 4k 60 thing you posted though, never came up yet.

The lenses you got, are you manually focusing those before each shot? I bought a metabones adapter, but I'd like something lighter for gimbal work.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

frytechnician posted:

Well, heads up to UK goons waiting on their preorder BMPCC4Ks.... absolutely no news.

Called up CVP, still a backlog of about 600+ cameras, first come, first served basis, said they had no news from BM Design about their next shipments and it's anyone's guess when they'll be in stock. Massively irritating.

Same problem worldwide, I see it on the Blackmagic 4k pocket group on Facebook. Kind of a bummer, I ordered in November.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

Honj Steak posted:

I'm in a bit of a dilemma at the moment while choosing a new camera. I'm a classical musician in Europe who two years ago started recording colleagues' performances for YouTube, which turned out to be a genuine side business (work example).

So far I have been recording everything on a Canon 760D with a Rokinon 35mm cine lens, but I reaaally desperately need to get a proper video camera to have much more control over the colours and overall better results. My set-ups are usually highly controlled with the camera sitting on a tripod permanently, utilising only very gentle movement to not distract from the interpretation. Autofocus is irrelevant and extreme resolution is not really important for me, but a gradeable codec with pleasing skin tones and a shallow depth of field are a must-have.

I was already almost certain to build a rig with a BMPCC4K + Metabones Ultra, but I have a few jobs coming up and the BMPCC4K won't be available in Europe until May as it seems. Also I'm a bit scared of the comparatively insane data rates and the high cost for storage they incur. I'm also afraid that I won't be able to use the RAW features since I'm editing on a 2015 15" Macbook Pro and I don't have the funds to buy a new computer and a new camera at the same time. On top of that, I'm a bit thrown off by the reports that it is sometimes not the most reliable device.

The prices for the GH5 and the GH5S seemed to have dropped significantly here, with the GH5 turning out to be about the same price as the BMPCC4K when fully rigging both of them for my purposes. The GH5S is interesting to me because of the wider sensor and it's low-light capabilites, but the GH5's IBIS might allow me to use long lenses on my tripod for live recordings without worrying about camera shake. Also I'm using fast glass with a speedbooster and I'm shooting at 25 fps, so the GH5's low-light should be good enough for what I'm doing.

Any experiences? I'm a bit helpless right now :negative:

They just released a new firmware for the bmpcc4k, some people are saying it fixed a few things like the SSD not showing up issue.

Sounds like the gh5 might be the go for you based on things you're looking for though. You could always rent either camera and see if it's for you before you shell out, I guess.

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

FreudianSlippers posted:

Does the original BMPCC still hold up?

The 4K looks very nice but you can get the OG for half the price used sometimes even with lenses, batteries, and various accessories. I've watched a bunch of videos and although the new one looks very tempting having more money is also tempting.

I've not worked with either one, I've done some work with the old non-pocket Blackmagic Cinema Camera and I really liked it. I've heard the BMPCC had a lot of issues but most of them have been fixed.

I've watched a whole bunch of reviews on Youtube and the end result seems to be pretty similar for both cameras.

I could also theoretically get the 6K but I'm not sure what use I could possibly have for 6K, I have my doubts I'd use 4K except in exceptions.

Apparently the SD cards for work the original are quite hard to find now unless you bought it as a kit secondhand. Also, be careful of the black sun problem with some units. Matt Scott has a post somewhere on his blog about setting one up, from memory. http://mattscottvisuals.com

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D
What I'm looking to do is add a plate to move my camera a bit off axis so it will balance on my gimbal. I'm attempting to balance a Blackmagic Pocket on a Came TV Single.

I think I've seen people post this before, but does anyone have a link to one online or the name of the plate?

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

powderific posted:

If you put it in a cage you'll have some more 1/4 20 on the bottom to choose from: https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-cage-for-blackmagic-design-pocket-cinema-camera-4k-2203.html

Or you could get a tripod clamp/cheeseplate combo of some kind, what you'd want would depend on what kind of tripod plate you'd use normally.



VoodooXT posted:

The other option would be getting a dovetail and a base plate to go with it.

Probably should have mentioned I have that particular cage. This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks guys!

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

Mister Speaker posted:

Ahh true. I've not really used After Effects much, but I'll give it a shot, there are some tutorials on this very thing. Thanks!

Now comes a workflow question. Like I said, I've not used AE much, and I'm curious about how Adobe's 'bridging' workflow works with video. I've only ever once used Photoshop as an extension of Lightroom to create a fake 'double exposure' before returning to LR to edit the image further, how does this work with video? I imagine there's a similar function for clips or the entire timeline to 'open in After Effects'. I'm guessing the most efficient way to go about this (heavily hinted at by the After part of 'After Effects') would be to edit the video together, fades and dissolves and cuts and playback speed adjustments and all, THEN send it to AE for the automatic masking process. Is this correct? How much processing time am I looking at between the two applications; is exporting from Pr to AE any faster than rendering a finished movie file out of Pr? Can I, will I have to return to Pr to render the final movie file? How much of this process is destructive, i.e: committing to edits?

In my experience, the bridge between AE and premiere always breaks. I wish it didn't, so generally I pre render my AE file and use that in premiere instead.

The way it breaks is generally when you come back to the project the next day after shutting your computer down or whatever. It's been this way for years for me, on different machines so I'm assuming everyone has the same experience. :(

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the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

ButtWolf posted:

Pulling the trigger on a BMPCC4k. New to all of this. What are the accessories I'll need to start? It'll be used for features, at least for practice shooting things like that.

Looking at Ronin gimbal but need more suggestions and brands for: cage, external mic, batteries, sd cards, a case. What else would be a good start? That's gonna just about cover all of the $ available. I have 2 lenses already.

Most people go with tilta or smallrig for cages. I'd go with a smallrig top handle or wooden side handle for stability as an extra.

If you want a mic, that really depends on what you plan to shoot. I have a rode video micro on mine but that's for scratch audio. I use a lav mic to get actual audio from a person.

Batteries suck on the camera, you either switch them every 20 minutes or go with a battery plate option. Go with genuine Canon batteries if you choose the first option, because some 3rd party ones get stuck (not sure they ever fixed that).

Cards, check Blackmagic's recommended card list. Is use an SSD with mine because I shoot raw. An sd card will only get you ProRes footage.

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