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fed_dude posted:Is Dune space opera? Dune is practically the textbook definition of "space opera".
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Nov 4, 2009 12:25
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WarLocke posted:John Ringo's Legacy of the Aldenata books. isn't that the one where the only dudes bad enough to lead Earth's armies are a bunch of hundred and twenty year old nazis (<-- literal nazis of the 1940s German kind not modern nazis, skinny and monocled not fat and tattooed )
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Nov 5, 2009 02:48
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fritz posted:isn't that the one where the only dudes bad enough to lead Earth's armies are a bunch of hundred and twenty year old nazis (<-- literal nazis of the 1940s German kind not modern nazis, skinny and monocled not fat and tattooed ) One of the side-story books, Watch on the Rhine, covers Germany's defense over the course of the invasion. And yeah, they invent a reason that Germany can't come up with enough soldiers, so they rejuv all the surviving SS guys and give them futuristic Panzer tanks. It's not really my favorite of the series. That one and The Hero are pretty bad.
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Nov 5, 2009 03:00
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shadok posted:Dune is practically the textbook definition of "space opera". Do you mean spice opera?
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Nov 5, 2009 04:14
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WarLocke posted:One of the side-story books, Watch on the Rhine, covers Germany's defense over the course of the invasion. And yeah, they invent a reason that Germany can't come up with enough soldiers, so they rejuv all the surviving SS guys and give them futuristic Panzer tanks. Okay, that makes me hate John Ringo to the point where I am definitely not going to read any more of his stuff (not that I probably would anyways, but there is just a point where I won't even consider it). I remember at a convention a few years ago where he was mocking some author who grew up in occupied western Europe during World War II for being anti-Nazi later in his life and implying that he was being stupid and that always struck me as a little bizarre. The whole SS-as-saviors-of-the-human-race thing makes Ringo's personal context a little more clear.
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Nov 5, 2009 04:31
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shadok posted:Dune is practically the textbook definition of "space opera". It also has strong elements of planetary romance. Edit: quote:Do you mean spice opera? I was reading about the Price-specie flow mechanism in Wikipedia the other day and got angry at myself for thinking of Dune. criptozoid fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Nov 5, 2009 |
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Nov 5, 2009 21:46
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John Ringo is a sick gently caress. I liked the Posleen series when it first came out, I kind of grew out of it but kept reading for nostalgia purposes. Then he started his Ghost series with his Mary Sue rapist pedophile dude. Never again.
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Nov 5, 2009 22:30
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Koryk posted:John Ringo is a sick gently caress. I liked the Posleen series when it first came out, I kind of grew out of it but kept reading for nostalgia purposes. Then he started his Ghost series with his Mary Sue rapist pedophile dude. All you need to know about John Ringo is that he writes for the New York Post. Also I read the summary of the first Ghost book on Wikipedia and it just sounds absolutely terrible, literally the sort of stuff an overweight middle schooler obsessed with James Bond and Splinter Cell would write: Wikipedia posted:Ex-SEAL Mike Harmon goes back to school and uncovers a Syrian kidnap plot to force American Military Forces out of the Middle East. He secretly sneaks in, holds off enemy soldiers, kills Osama Bin Laden, and rescues the girls before collapsing from blood loss, as an American raid attacks Syrian military bases and sends in a SEAL team to hold the position. I mean, is that serious? There's no way a book like that could actually be serious, right? I see it's on the Baen website for free, I kind of want to download it and check it out to see if it could actually be as bad as the summary makes it seem.
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Nov 6, 2009 01:34
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Chairman Capone posted:I mean, is that serious? There's no way a book like that could actually be serious, right? I see it's on the Baen website for free, I kind of want to download it and check it out to see if it could actually be as bad as the summary makes it seem. here is a review: http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html with an excerpt quote:
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Nov 6, 2009 01:52
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fritz posted:here is a review: http://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html with an excerpt Holy poo poo. I just stopped reading that when I got to the "mother-daughter action" and fifteen year old hooker part. Jesus Christ. I take it back, I think I have no need to read this to see how bad it is.
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Nov 6, 2009 04:51
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Chairman Capone posted:Holy poo poo. I just stopped reading that when I got to the "mother-daughter action" and fifteen year old hooker part. Jesus Christ. I take it back, I think I have no need to read this to see how bad it is. I'm regretting that I brought Ringo up now. He is pretty sick, but I guess I can kind of mentally separate the inner rapist or SS as saviors type stuff and just enjoy the over-the-top war stuff, which he does well IMO. Shrug. 
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Nov 6, 2009 07:14
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WarLocke posted:I'm regretting that I brought Ringo up now. He is pretty sick, but I guess I can kind of mentally separate the inner rapist or SS as saviors type stuff and just enjoy the over-the-top war stuff, which he does well IMO. Reminds me of when I started reading some book and put it down permanently when it go to the part about an alien torturing the main character's 12" genetically modified erection.
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Nov 6, 2009 07:58
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Just picked up the first "Honor Harrington" book on the recommendation of someone else, and "Consider Phlebas" even though supposedly the second Culture book is a better introduction, I prefer to read things like that in order. I have to say, all the Baen books look the same. I mean, Baen is awesome, and I think they're a pretty decent publisher, but all their books look I would have loved them when I was 14.
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Nov 8, 2009 00:42
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How are the Honor Harrington books? It's one of those series I've heard about for a long time but never gotten around to reading. All I really know about it is that it's supposed to be Horatio Hornblower in space, there's a telepathic cat, and it has the typical conservative sci-fi "welfare states are EVIL!" trope which is probably more than anything why I managed to keep finding excuses to not read it. But is it really like that? Just once I would like to read a military sci-fi book that doesn't have some big conservative agenda or outlook. Other than The Forever War, of course.
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Nov 8, 2009 01:11
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My personal experience with the Harrington books was that the first one was a pretty enjoyable read. After that, each book got progressively more bloated, with an inverse correlation in quality. I still re-read the first 5 or so, but after that I just don't bother. Actual character development takes a far backseat to heavy-handed political commentary. It actually pretty sharply mirrors my experience with Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan books, come to think of it.
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Nov 8, 2009 03:28
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WarLocke posted:One of the side-story books, Watch on the Rhine, covers Germany's defense over the course of the invasion. And yeah, they invent a reason that Germany can't come up with enough soldiers, so they rejuv all the surviving SS guys and give them futuristic Panzer tanks. Should just toss in that those are Co-authored with Ringo. "Watch on the Rhine" being co-authored with the abysmally bad Tom Kratman. From what I know of Baen's co-authoring methodology is that the Big Name author is stuck on the book just to sell it, without contributing much more than oversight. I avoid all the co-authored stuff entirely as it's usually horrible. Edit: As an aside, right before he passed away, for some reason Jim Baen seemed to have a hard on for utterly wacked out right wing conservative writing. Combed a few of the weirder Baen forum members out to offer book contracts to. That's where Kratman came from. That and cheap rear end "Poser" using cover artists... The Legacy books up to "Hell's Faire" are straight up Ringo, pre-rape fantasy weirdness and are pretty decent if you're just looking for quasi mindless "High tech shoot out" fun. He was still getting started as an author at that point and I find them worth the occasional read. Plus introducing the idea why it's bad to let rednecks play with antimatter. I.E. if you like the scene in "Predator" where the squad panics and hoses the jungle with machinegun fire while yelling... you can probably be entertained by these books. CaptainCrunch fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Nov 10, 2009 |
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Nov 10, 2009 22:41
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CaptainCrunch posted:The Legacy books up to "Hell's Faire" are straight up Ringo, pre-rape fantasy weirdness and are pretty decent if you're just looking for quasi mindless "High tech shoot out" fun. He was still getting started as an author at that point and I find them worth the occasional read. Plus introducing the idea why it's bad to let rednecks play with antimatter. This is basically what I was trying to convey at first. The later books, dealing with Cally and the Bane Sidhe, are more about Galactic politics and history and various mindfucks. And I, personally, like that kind of stuff too. But the first four books are straight up 'Humanity, gently caress yeah' military sci-fi. Another good author for space opera is David Weber. Everybody knows about the Honor Harrington stuff, which I loved when I was younger but yeah, they bog down into politics later on. But he also wrote the Dahak series which is about as pure space opera as it gets (astronaut discovers that the moon is actually a many-thousands-of-years old space ship, becomes its defacto commander, and must find a way to root out a 20,000 year old mutiny/conspiracy - and that's just the first book). His new Safehold series is pretty loving fantastic, even if it's probably not exactly 'space opera'. The first one read kind of weird, it came off as a weird alternate mashup of The Armageddon Inheritance and Heirs of Empire but once it got going he developed an entirely new universe, and it's become my favorite of his series, I think. And to tiptoe back into dangerous waters, the Prince Roger series (Weber & Ringo) is another good one. It's almost entirely planet-based, though. And this was early Ringo before he started adding sex and rape to everything.
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Nov 10, 2009 23:00
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WarLocke posted:And to tiptoe back into dangerous waters, the Prince Roger series (Weber & Ringo) is another good one. It's almost entirely planet-based, though. And this was early Ringo before he started adding sex and rape to everything. the covers are awesome. blonde haired guy in sleek camo riding a dinosaur? check hot chick in revealing camo? check guy in futuristic silver amour? check stupidly large firearms? you knows it. the version i have goes so far as to cover half the book jacket in silver 'foil' & raise author's names so i can find it in the dark. not bad if you like excuses for pitched battles, evolving tactics always based around one (new) trick & obvious character progressions. the evil empire is a green oriented socialist empire btw.
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Nov 10, 2009 23:38
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branedotorg posted:not bad if you like excuses for pitched battles, evolving tactics always based around one (new) trick & obvious character progressions. the evil empire is a green oriented socialist empire btw. I guess I just have lovely taste in books. 
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Nov 10, 2009 23:48
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WarLocke posted:His new Safehold series is pretty loving fantastic, even if it's probably not exactly 'space opera'. The first one read kind of weird, it came off as a weird alternate mashup of The Armageddon Inheritance and Heirs of Empire but once it got going he developed an entirely new universe, and it's become my favorite of his series, I think. Yeah, straight up classic Weber style, pretty well polished. If a little wishfull thinking, I guess. But it's got all the style I liked from him before the HH series went down the weird politics rabbit hole. Hopefully he ENDS this series. WarLocke posted:I guess I just have lovely taste in books. We both do, it's ok. Not everyone can be a snob. 
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Nov 11, 2009 08:28
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CaptainCrunch posted:Edit: As an aside, right before he passed away, for some reason Jim Baen seemed to have a hard on for utterly wacked out right wing conservative writing. The hard move right came well before his death, Baen was the one that published Newt Gingrich's alt-history.
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Nov 11, 2009 20:01
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fritz posted:The hard move right came well before his death, Baen was the one that published Newt Gingrich's alt-history. uh.... huh. I did not know that. I may have to read that just for the cognitive dissonance. On topic: I was moderately entertained by Elizabeth Moon's "Trading in Danger" series Basically an officer candidate for her planetary space fleet gets kicked out, goes home to her wealthy family just as the family compound is attacked. Turns out that a wave of piracy is sweeping the galaxy and she uses her training and talent to organize a resistance fleet. More complex than that, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some details. But I found it to be entertaining.
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Nov 11, 2009 22:17
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WarLocke posted:I guess I just have lovely taste in books. I own about 2500 sci fi novels, i have no basis for intellectual snobbery.
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Nov 11, 2009 23:55
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Shampoo posted:Just picked up the first "Honor Harrington" Half way through the book, and I would have loved the poo poo out of this when I was 14. Now though, eh. I'll finish it.
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Nov 12, 2009 03:17
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branedotorg posted:I liked the empire of man series too, it was just fairly obvious the each segment was a set up to the next pitched battle using a different tactic based on utilising whatever the local economic speciality was. Has anyone read David Drake's "Leary" series? I kind of like how the technology completely changes from one book to the next.
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Nov 12, 2009 03:26
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Miss-Bomarc posted:Try the "Lost Fleet" series, it's even worse. Each segment is a setup to the next pitched battle which is almost exactly like the last pitched battle. This seems like a good place to ask as any, are Drakes Hammer's Slammers books good? I only read the Venus novellas by him and liked them.
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Nov 12, 2009 04:48
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Mr.48 posted:This seems like a good place to ask as any, are Drakes Hammer's Slammers books good? I only read the Venus novellas by him and liked them. I like them, although it gets a bit repetitive sometimes to read about the awesomest soldiers in the universe being awesomely more awesome than everyone else. It's non-political, in the sense that it's taken as given that any politician is a total sniveling weasely bastard and the Slammers are the only people who can do anything at all.
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Nov 12, 2009 04:56
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Miss-Bomarc posted:I like them, although it gets a bit repetitive sometimes to read about the awesomest soldiers in the universe being awesomely more awesome than everyone else. It's non-political, in the sense that it's taken as given that any politician is a total sniveling weasely bastard and the Slammers are the only people who can do anything at all. So is it like Cook's Black Company books? Because I like those.
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Nov 12, 2009 05:21
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Miss-Bomarc posted:I like them, although it gets a bit repetitive sometimes to read about the awesomest soldiers in the universe being awesomely more awesome than everyone else. It's non-political, in the sense that it's taken as given that any politician is a total sniveling weasely bastard and the Slammers are the only people who can do anything at all. Anything like gordon r dickson's dorsai (childe cycle)? I always loved those.
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Nov 12, 2009 13:50
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It's not much like the Black Company books; if anything, it's most like Haldeman's "The Forever War". (I haven't read any of the "Dorsai!" books so I can't speak to those.) You can get a lot of it on the Baen Free Library if you want. Go for "The Tank Lords" and "Paying The Piper".
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Nov 13, 2009 19:23
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I recently got all the books in "The Saga of the Seven Suns" by Kevin J. Anderson as a gift from a friend. He keeps insisting that this is series is great and that I absolutely have to read it, so far I've read the first two books and I'm not that impressed. But I do like the concept of Space Opera, is it worth the ordeal of finish reading the last five books?
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Nov 15, 2009 12:24
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Avskum posted:I recently got all the books in "The Saga of the Seven Suns" by Kevin J. Anderson as a gift from a friend. He keeps insisting that this is series is great and that I absolutely have to read it, so far I've read the first two books and I'm not that impressed. But I do like the concept of Space Opera, is it worth the ordeal of finish reading the last five books? I'm very interested in this as well! I read the first three, didn't know there were four more (well, in retrospect it's obvious). I enjoyed them quite a bit, but my interested slackened slightly after it goes all FOUR ELEMENTS and MAGIC BABIES but I am willing to pick it back up if it does the aforementioned topics in a way that even approaches passable!
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Nov 16, 2009 02:38
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Just finished Jack Vance's The Demon Princes series and it was solidly awesome, with the first book being the weakest oddly enough. If anyone wants to read them I would recommend skipping the first book The Star King in general, as not reading it wouldnt affect your understanding of the rest of the books. Also, if you get the two omnibus volumes that contain all 5 books, dont bother reading the description on the back, it only describes the first book and is not really representative of the others (the "Star Kings" only appear in the first book and detract from the world of these books in my opinion)
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Nov 16, 2009 20:29
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wheatpuppy posted:My personal experience with the Harrington books was that the first one was a pretty enjoyable read. After that, each book got progressively more bloated, with an inverse correlation in quality. I still re-read the first 5 or so, but after that I just don't bother. Actual character development takes a far backseat to heavy-handed political commentary. They start off well, but about 6 or 7 books in the Author wants to gently caress his subject material a little too much (Honor) and his misogynistic streak starts showing. The way he had written the character up to that point didn't really allow for the "Falls to pieces because the one man she loves can never be hers!" nonsense that occurred. Turned me off the series entirely.
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Nov 17, 2009 03:05
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Rhymenoserous posted:They start off well, but about 6 or 7 books in the Author wants to gently caress his subject material a little too much (Honor) and his misogynistic streak starts showing. The way he had written the character up to that point didn't really allow for the "Falls to pieces because the one man she loves can never be hers!" nonsense that occurred. Um, what? Six books in... so that would be Paul Tankersley. She doesn't 'fall to pieces' what the heck man. What's his name hires a professional duelist specifically to goad Tankersley into a duel so that his death will hurt her. Not only does she not fall apart, she challenges the duelist herself, puts a round through his forehead, and announces she is coming for the noble guy on public video. I'll agree Weber throws more and more poo poo at Honor as the series goes on (you probably never got to the People's Republic capturing her and starving/torturing her over a period of months on the way to their prison planet) but that's almost the point of the character: she can't turn away from her duty no matter how much it costs her. She just can not quit. Of course, if you mean her relationship with Earl White Haven that's different, and it was a bit excessive. Approaching the point of 'she doesn't feel she deserves to be happy' angstyness. But the payoff was worth it. I think a lot of people who really 'get' the Harrington books are really into self sacrifice. I can't think of many other series where the protagonist is framed for a bunch of children's deaths, vilified by an entire planet, survives having her aircar shot down, immediately directs a fleet action that's little more than a close-range slugging match that kills thousands on both sides, then goes to the equivalent of the House of Lords - still wounded, having never taken time for medical attention - and challenges her framer to trial by combat. Yeah, Flag in Exile is one of my favorites.  It's too bad it seems like we won't be getting an actual end to the series though. At All Costs was supposed to be Honor's Trafalgar, but Weber decided not to kill her. And now he's been working on other series (Hell's Gate and the Safehold books) with no mention of any more Honorverse books in the pipe. And he was setting up something interesting with Mesa (Manticore and Haven teaming up vs the Khan-esque genetic slavers? It's just about the only way I could see the new war ending without one or the other nations being gutted)... Edit: I don't think all the poo poo Honor goes through is done because Weber's a misogynist. As is often mentioned, her basic character arc is almost lifted straight from Horatio Hornblower. It seems to me that it's more a statement of her strength, having the willpower and determination to carry through no matter what it costs her. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Nov 17, 2009 |
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Nov 17, 2009 03:58
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It might be worth noting that the whitehaven threesome thing is lifted from the life of nelson & lady hamilton, one of the main inspirations for hornblower. Historical precedent doesn't make webber's take on it any less irritating to me.
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Nov 18, 2009 00:01
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Grub posted:Depends on your version of romance and action etc, but I really enjoyed Stephen Donladson's "Gap series", 5 books that revolve around three main characters: a sadistic rapist pirate, a swarthy buckaneer arsehole, and a beautiful damsel/victim of unmentionable cruelty. ConfusedUs posted:The Gap Cycle was horrific. I felt emotionally off-kilter after each book, and it only got worse as the series went on. The writing was good, but the subject matter and plots were some of the most cruel things I've ever encountered, and almost every character is a complete rear end in a top hat. If you take the time to read through the explanation of the parallels to Wagner, it's really  fun to pick out recognizable parts as well.All of Donaldson's books have assholes for main characters pretty much, though. Doesn't the Trials of Thomas Covenent start out with the dude raping some random woman for no particular reason? It's been a while and I only got through a few of them before I lost interest, but I've read the Gap Cycle through several times. Habibi posted:Sure - I've read Night's Dawn, the Commonwealth Saga, and am most of the way through the Void saga. IMO, Hamilton is an amazing author who creates a fantastic universe and characters. On the other hand, his endings tend to be somewhat anti-climactic because they typically wrap things up far too cleanly. In a sense, he's almost the exact opposite of someone like Stephen Eriksson, in that the build-up is incredible and the conclusion lackluster. Fallen Dragon is a favorite of mine for some reason it's an interesting world and I wish Hamilton had more of the fleshsuit space marines, they were interesting and fun to read about.
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Nov 20, 2009 00:45
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coyo7e posted:These are both correct, and it doesn't take away from the fact that Donaldson's Gap Cycle is really, really stellar space opera material. I was amazed at how horrific Angus behaved in the first book, and even more amazed at how much sympathy I had for him for every following book. The Gap Cycle is phenomenal. it's got well, ugly characters to put it mildly. Bad stuff happens, terrible sacrifices must be made simply to get from the frying pan into the fire, and book 4 has 200 pages of the best space battle I've ever seen or read. Really. The escape from the lab and several ships with different motives chasing each other through an asteroid belt really, really works. And I've figured out how to kill Michael Bay: hand him the Neutronium Alchemist series and a budget. He'll stroke out trying to figure out how to get all that amazing poo poo filmed. Hamilton writes pulp page-turners, but very few people can conceive and write set pice action sequences like he can. Or cliffhangers. I'm patiently waiting for him to finish the Dreaming Void trilogy before starting it; after he sends a couple of characters off a waterfall and into motherfucking space in the last series, I'm just not putting up with that crap anymore... unless I have my next fix on hand.
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Nov 20, 2009 01:37
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I've actually read the entire Hyperion Cantos, and I thought the first book was also the best. Much to my chagrin, Aenea annoys the everliving crap out of me, but not enough to ruin the third book. I've also plowed through most Peter F. Hamilton stuff out there, and when reading it, I've found it easy to completely skip over his gratuitous sex scenes and pretend they didn't happen. That isn't enough to salvage the endings of the Night's Dawn Trilogy or Fallen Dragon, but at least everything before he tries to end things is largely enjoyable. And for those who listen to it on audiobook, John Lee is a fantastic narrator. What surprises me is that no one has mentioned Walter Jon Williams' Dread Empire's Fall trilogy, which has all sorts of neat things like physics playing a huge role in his conceptualization of space combat. He also manages to wrap it up in a way that is not displeasing or particularly cliche. Certainly the flashbacks of one of the characters get annoying, but they do serve a purpose and they're not the meat of the books anyway. I'd recommend them. I've read some Vernor Vinge and honestly had a lot of trouble getting into it, given the way he just plunges you into his universe without much, if any explanation of what the gently caress is going on. In A Fire Upon the Deep, the only parts that made sense in the beginning were the narratives following the two children, because they were as ignorant of what was going on as I was.
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Nov 20, 2009 07:42
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mllaneza posted:I'm patiently waiting for him to finish the Dreaming Void trilogy before starting it; after he sends a couple of characters off a waterfall and into motherfucking space in the last series, I'm just not putting up with that crap anymore... unless I have my next fix on hand. This is a good idea, I've been so anxious about the next book in the series coming out because he pulls a typical Hamilton and leaves us on a massive cliffhanger. Oh well, I've been reading Ian M. Banks stuff lately and it's pretty good. Actually, I was going to ask, not all of his sci-fi is in the culture universe is it? I'm reading Against a Dark Background right now and I guess technically it could be in the culture universe but it doesn't seem like it. On that note, On a dark background went from lighthearted and pretty funny; the King escaping the giant lizard birds only to fall out of the rafters and die was pretty loving hilarious, to completely depressing in like, 50 pages. Still, it's been an excellent read so far. Anyone in here who hasn't read Banks needs to, now. In terms of writing and character development he's light years ahead of most sci-fi authors.
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Nov 20, 2009 07:48
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