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nessin posted:For some reason I got to thinking of an old book I read and had a strange desire to find it or something like it, except I can't remember the author or title. Hopefully someone can help me, although I seem to remember it being rather unremarkable in the long run. I'm really hoping you aren't referring to Piers Anthony's "Bio of a Space Tyrant" series. He's a great author when you're 11 and love hearing about sex and and violence and high drama, but holy poo poo does his style not age well. The first one is subtitled "Refugee" I think.
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May 23, 2010 04:16
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nessin posted:Sounds about right. I mentioned I remembered it being unremarkable, and I was a teenager when I read it. Besides, I didn't even remember it having sex/violence/high drama. I just remembered it being something about Space Pirates and I've been playing a game lately with Space Pirates in it, so it sparked my memory. Nearly everything Anthony writes is YA-level titillation, jokey wordplay, and mary-sues with babby's first moral conflicts. Great for puberty, not so much later. The Space Tyrant series in particular dips pretty fetishistic at times, IIRC. The first thing that comes to mind even remotely space-piratical is the first Miles Vorkosigan book or so by Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Warrior's Apprentice" and then maybe "The Vor Game". The main character cons his way into hijacking a mercenary fleet and then a war. There is a moderate amount of swashbucklery, but it's more about fast talk and interpersonal relationships of various kinds. The series as a whole is Space Opera as all hell and pretty easy to read, although it does trend somewhat beta-male.
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May 23, 2010 06:01
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papa horny michael posted:I've read a few reviews of Julian May's works and it all seems too mystical in a trippy seventies way. Is the writing any good? I've read most of her output out of a need for story closure, but I don't really recommend them. There are some interesting takes on a mixed mutant-power vs. normal humans societies and aliens, but the characters are often Mary Sues and the plots are a little forced. Also incest and magical ESP crystals.
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Jun 14, 2010 20:27
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Noricae posted:Never heard of her either, and girly is ok, especially since female science fiction writers tend to be really underrated or even ignored in general and rarely mentioned on these forums so I appreciate any new ones I run across. There's some good stuff out there too that's largely ignored (Nancy Kress, Octavia Butler, Connie Willis, Atwood, although writers with fantasy fanbases are an exception (Le Guin, Friedman)) probably because most of these writers don't include Heinleinien orgies, hehe. If a hint of girl doesn't send you running, I want to reiterate Lois McMaster Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan books for this thread. She has a deft touch with the crowning-moment-of-awesome line and puts an admirable amount of thought into the social makeup of her made-up societies and cultures. The books are all moderately and satisfactorily self-contained, so you needn't worry about getting sucked into a series of cliff-hanger endings with impossibly distant publishing dates.
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Jun 18, 2010 05:52
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Trig Discipline posted:I honestly haven't read any Heinlein in probably fifteen years, but when I think back to his books I think "holy crap, that was a weird old dude". In fact I was joking about his weird incest/pedo tendencies in the Charles Stross thread just earlier today. I do remember liking The Door Into Summer anyway, though. His young adult books are his best material, probably precisely because he ignores his bizarre theories on marriage and sexuality to better cover the action and some light and silly political stuff. Space Cadet, Citizen of the Galaxy, maybe Farmer/Tunnel in the Sky, etc. They're dated and not a little sexist, but they remain fun to read once you break through the 50's-era stylistic background.
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Aug 23, 2010 04:41
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fritz posted:Podkayne of Mars: If I'm reading that description right Tom wasn't blaming the parents for being injured by the bomb (that he planted), but for the younger brother being a jackass and possibly for the kids being with him on his dangerous mission at all instead of with the parents. I didn't read it, but I think Podkayne was him sort of explicitly moving away from his other "juveniles". Still not nearly as creepy as the incest/polygamy/rapetime/whatever that he gets up to with his mature titles.
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Aug 23, 2010 06:30
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WarLocke posted:It's not really time travel (except in the 'beings who evolved on a neutron star would live waaaay faster than us' sense) but it's a really good read. Basically you follow this alien civilization as they go from worshipping the new lights in the sky (us) to a more-advanced-than-us technological civilization over the course of a month or so. That sounds a little like an early theme of Niven/Pournelle's "The Mote in God's Eye". The aliens in that one live and think much faster than humans, and they appear moderately behind us in most ways upon first contact. It's closer to hard S.F. than space opera, but there's fleets of ships and alien terrors and just a touch of romance so it might as well be in this thread. The sequel's not bad either ("The Gripping Hand"). edit: beat, in a way.
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Aug 24, 2010 18:14
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Hannibal Rex posted:What's the score on Niven's Known Space/Ringworld/Man-Kzin series? I've only read two of his collaborations with Pournelle, neither of which impressed me much. (Footfall, Mote in God's Eye) Niven did much of his work with short stories, and Known Space is just his one big background setting. So it's not so much a series as it is a shared set of preconditions and histories. And the Man-Kzin collections are mostly other authors stepping into one of the larger conflicts with a few Niven or Pournelle stories scattered in. The Ringworld stories are his longest continuous series, especially if you count the "____ of Worlds" books he wrote with Ed Lerner. He's usually connected more with the hard science fiction writers than space opera, but YMMV. That said I rather enjoy the Known Space collections (Flatlander, Crashlander, Three Books of Known Space). Two of the Three Books are actual novels, but everything else is short stories or novellas and tend to be all over the place in terms of enjoyment level. Mote had a weird but decent sequel (The Gripping Hand), but I can't say the Ringworld books get much better as they go along. I do like some of the science and cultural stuff in the original couple of books though. Of the other stuff: The Magic Goes Away/Golden Road books are an interesting take on fantasy tropes. The Dream Park books are largely near-future murder-mysteries based in a more or less holodeck and RPG themepark. Oath of Fealty is a meditation on arcologies and how they affect society. Inferno/Escape From hell are reinterpretations of Dante's inferno and related theologies. That said Mote is pretty representative of his writing good and bad, and if you didn't care for it you might want to pick up one of the story collections at a library before going too much further. Don't bother with the Man-Kzin stuff at all unless you're chasing a specific author. wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_niven#Bibliography ninja edit: beat, pretty much
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Nov 24, 2010 23:18
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Hannibal Rex posted:Hey, two opinions are better than one. Thanks for the input, both of you. I'll look into the short stories. Just remembered an additional bit of trivia on the Mote/Gripping hand books that is actually relevant to the thread: they're actually based on a different shared universe than Known Space. In this case it's the CoDominion that Pournelle co-wrote with Niven and set his various Falkenberg's Legion stories in. The two Motie books come late or last in the setting's history. viz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoDominium The Co-Dominion itself comes from an assumption that the future of Earth will revolve around a society based on a single supergovernment- half-American, half-Russian. The military-focused books mostly cover collapse of its extrapolated multi-world empire. Most of Pournelle's solo books and stories in this are straight up sci-fi military porn (superior army training and noble leadership always triumphs over the baddies), and as such are fine examples of Space Opera when you throw in some chastely romantic subplots. Cheesy as hell of course, but comforting if you're into tales of derring-do might-comes-from-right or similar benign authoritarianism.
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Nov 25, 2010 12:17
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Chairman Capone posted:Over winter break I read Larry Niven's latest short story/essay collection, Stars and Gods, and...I think I no longer feel the need to follow any more of his releases. Ignoring the fact that half the collection is excerpts from books he published over a decade ago, it just lacked the narrative energy and interesting concepts that his old works had. The only passable parts were the two Man-Kzin War stories, and even those were just kind of blah. I noticed two or three times that he wrote the exact same jokes in multiple stories. And I knew he was a libertarian, but I thought he was kind of on the level and left all the serious nutty ramblings to Jerry Pournelle, but every other paragraph in it had to mention how terrible urban blacks or, or how environmentalists are traitors, or how the space program would be amazing if private companies ran it, or how Ronald Reagan was the greatest figure in the history of the world (literally, a Kzin names himself after "the greatest warrior of Earth's past" - 'Ronreagan'). One story was about how IRS agents literally deserve to be murdered, and another was about a president who allows Washington to be nuked as his way of killing Congress to punish them for canceling SDI. Although being one of the resident Niven That said I've never seen any of the horrors you mentioned after "libertarianism" so I guess I've been sheltered. That might be the only book I don't get of his, despite my complete-collector mentality. On behalf of Niven fandom, I apologize for you having to suffer through that crap.
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Jan 9, 2011 05:01
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Chairman Capone posted:Really? That's really funny. I knew Pournelle got approached to do stuff for SDI because he's mentioned it in a few things I read, but each time it was basically him saying "I came up with SDI and sold it to Reagan almost entirely on my own." Which always seemed like BS to me but I didn't realize it was that much BS. Since he and several other scifi writers have actually been called to spitball futuretech problems to Pentagon types (Sigma, etc.), it's probably not total BS. Wikipedia cites an Adam Curtis documentary called "Pandora's Box" where Niven is interviewed about the SDI thing. Seeing the various other out-there things Reagan managed to believe I wouldn't doubt it too hard.
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Jan 10, 2011 04:01
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aliceamadee posted:Has anyone read... Earth Made Of Glass by John Barnes? I haven't read anything by either of them, but picked up the books used and they look intriguing. I like John Barnes' Thousand Cultures series, but you should note that Earth Made of Glass is the sequel to the first book, A Million Open Doors. Doors introduces the two cultures (and the books' background setting) that Giraut and Margaret come from, and Glass comes in not long after the first one. I prefer his Century Next Door (Orbital Resonance, et al.) series because of the nifty meme thought-virus conceit, but as long as you don't mind a touch of tragic melodrama the Thousand Cultures stories have some great superspy and politics-in-strange-cultures stuff. They remind me a lot of the Frederick Pohl Heechee books for several thematic reasons, only with less space ships and science.
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Apr 13, 2011 04:04
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Kerbtree posted:Speaking of bollocks - is Julian May's Galactic Milieu series as wank as I remember it being quite some years ago? Well, it's ten books of crazy ESP people with space elves (if you count the Pliocene prequelly things). It doesn't do too well on a re-read when you're not as driven to see what happens next. For me there was waaaay too much of the melodrama and plot-dependent character stupidity with some immoderately skeevy stuff thrown in. Admittedly there were some notably interesting characters and a few pretty good sci-fi ideas tossed in, but there's no balanced storyline or coherent pacing and it probably crosses a few comfort lines. In short, pretty wank.
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Mar 18, 2012 09:42
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notaspy posted:I've read through this threat to find a book or series I'm pretty sure doesn't exist. I'm wanting something with the following plot devices: I'll throw out Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle's Mote In God's Eye and it's sequel The Gripping Hand even though they may be a bit "harder" science-wise than you requested. It's got a well-developed human empire with some notable political fuckery, space and ground encounters with a first contact situation, and the youngest characters in Mote are probably college age. The "CoDominion" universe it's set in has some weird 1980's-style US/USSR backstory stuff since Pournelle's some sort of military libertarian hack, but these stories are mostly moved on from that stuff. The aliens are cool, the humans are smart, and it's got some grand ideas.
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Apr 30, 2012 21:51
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Continuing these minor derails with some recommendations- On the Foundation front, aside from the original series there have been some pretty good other authors' takes on them. The magnificent B-team of hard SF writers Benford, Bear, and Brin put out (respectively) Foundation's Fear, Foundation And Chaos, and Foundation's Triumph which I seem to recall enjoying pretty well. I also recently found a great 2001 book set in a late Second-Foundation period called Psychohistorical Crisis by Donald Kingsbury that I'd never before heard of that is full of some pretty cool spy shenanigans and the repercussions of artificial brain augmentation on the Foundation. I had a pretty good time even if it looks like his other works are a little creepy. And back with the theories-of-identity discussion the aforementioned and fantastic David Brin wrote a fantastic standalone SF dectective-noir that goes all freaky Philip K. Dick called Kiln People. It's in a future where almost everyone can 3D-print clay avatars/clones with copies of their minds in them and download their memories later. There are color-coded quality and use hierarchies where the cheap ones are stupid near-automatons that do your chores and don't upload their boring memories and expensive smart ones that can learn stuff and research for you and specialty models that can be spies or prostitutes or whatever. It's not space ships and blasters, but there's some great chase scenes and punchouts in between pondering about what makes us human and the like. (That said Brin's Uplift series is great too and has some pretty sweet and imaginative alien races (and spaceship chases), but they mostly stick to planetary action and byzantine alien politics so it's not necessarily thread-appropriate either.)
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Jul 9, 2013 05:44
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jackyl posted:I'm a bit unnerved here. I usually like the normal airplane fiction, noir, horror, etc but started looking at a wider variety and this thread was awesome for that. I started with Revelation Space, read all of those, then discovered the Culture, which lead to non space opera books by Iaian Banks, and I read all those. Not sure if I'd call any of them as straight up space opera since they only do swashbuckling and spaceship dogfights on occasion, but there's a lot still to love there. Sundiver is pretty different from the other books, sort of just a murder mystery but with weird aliens and superscience kind of thing. It is a look at the setting and some of the cultures involved, but other than that there really aren't any significant carryovers since the other books take place centuries later and both human technology and their political situation has shifted. The next two books (Startide Rising and The Uplift War) focus on uplifted dolphins in deep space and uplifted chimpanzees on a besieged Earth (respectively) and how they react and defend themselves against nearly overwhelming forces of angry aliens. There's a lot of hiding and spying and personal heroism while various antagonist races try to capture or eradicate them and their humans/allies. Also there are some little romances sprinkled throughout that are pretty sweet. The trilogy that follows them revolves around several very varied refugee species on a hidden world surviving in an ad hoc culture and what happens when the outer universe and its hosed up political situation stumbles in and ruins everything. The writing for Sundiver does feel weaker to me than the rest of the books in the series; and the others generally have more action if that's what you're hoping for. You didn't say what you specifically didn't like about Sundiver, but as long as it's not his specific voice as an author it does indeed get better. Still has lots of science wonkery and some kind of pat plotting though. Be warned that I'm a pretty big Brin fan so you should probably take all this with a pinch of salt.
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Jul 15, 2013 09:23
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jackyl posted:Yeah, you're right, I should have said. The voice is what killed me. Culla banged his head against the wall!!! There was an acrid stench from the bathroom!! Quit with the Matthew Reilly, damnit!!! Or are you paid by the exclamation point?!?! I do believe he gets some kind of graded commission from the Punctuators' Union, yes. There are an awful lot of ellipses in some of his dolphin-brain freakouts for example. I still maintain that the later books are superior in most regards to Sundiver, but there's absolutely no need to hurt yourself over genre fiction unless you're starved for options or suffer too greatly from the sunk-cost fallacy. I learned that lesson from the GRRM Bad Thread.
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Jul 17, 2013 09:02
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Fenrra posted:Just started reading Leviathan Wakes. Off to a pretty good start so far. Seems quite a bit like Peter F. Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga. I just finished reading the trilogy recently thanks to my local library and overall I liked it. Space piracy, ineffable alien menaces, corrupt military industrial complexes, interplanetary politics, and protagonists that are sometimes kind of dicks while also trying their damnedest to do the right thing... Lots of good stuff. It gets a little more mary-sue-esque than I like at times, but it's definitely appropriate for fans of this thread's focus. There are some pretty neat Alien and 2001: A Space Odyssey beats in there, but nothing too overtly hackish or stolen. You'll hardly be able to tell that one of the co-authors was GRRM's primary lackey.
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May 6, 2014 07:04
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Vaz posted:Holden is dullest character and grandma is most interesting. Holden is main character in whole series, Grandma so far is only in second book. She's tangentially in the third too, iirc. It's just that it's mostly the Rocinante crew, Reverend Anna, the power-armor marine lady, and the super crazy assassin girl. Honestly I didn't think it was a particularly awesome entry in the series, but it wasn't like orders of magnitude worse than the prior two to me. The "slow zone" sure lived up to its name though...
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May 7, 2014 00:34
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I didn't mind the nutty assassin's descent into quasi-sanity, and the wholesome happy religious mommy stuff was trite but alright; my biggest complaint is that the putative big villain captain and the empty-suit political priest were just awful. Incompetent, sociopathic, and yet slavishly followed by enough moral-free peons to form a nigh-unstoppable counter-coup? Yeah, not the strongest written antagonists. I wanted more weird science, but I guess since there're going to be more books we've got all that interstellar transit hub stuff to look forward to. Holden's got to have his brains and DNA pretty much near melted by now with all the rads and proto-crap he's taken on though. I don't see how they're going to be able to keep him as anything like an action lead for three more full books.
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May 7, 2014 07:30
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fookolt posted:I'm a third of a way through Shards of Honor right now and is it supposed to be this...cheesy? Almost all of Bujold's writing has at least a few romance novel type motifs, some far more than others. The two novellas in Cordelia's Honor (Shards/Barrayar) are sort of a prelude to the Miles books which are the vast majority of the series. If the space adventure with flirting stuff hurts you, you might want to back out before you get to Komarr and especially A Civil Campaign. Also, get used to protagonists with big moment-of-(emotional)-awesomeness lines and their accompanying awkward set ups. That said I still love her stuff, no matter how earnest or over-the-top it gets.
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May 10, 2014 06:14
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Chairman Capone posted:However, today I stumbled upon a two-part series he's done with Gregory Benford, Bowl of Heaven and Shipstar, about an expedition from Earth to a half-Dyson Sphere around a distant star, and the expedition's various adventures. Now I'm tempted to pick them up. I like Benford, and I think he'd be resistant to Niven's recent descent into right-wing madness (unlike Pournelle who clearly stoked it), plus it seems far enough removed from Earth that political stuff might not intervene. And of course it's Niven's return to the Big Dumb Object genre where I think he's absolutely been best. I rather liked Bowl of Heaven as a sort of return to the Ringworld/Rama/2001-monolith era. First contacty with super-technology alien races putting hapless humans into strange situations. And then on the complete opposite side he co-wrote a book called The Goliath Stone that looked like it might be something similar with some goof named Matthew Joseph Harrington that has cool science stuff with an alien satellite sort of thing interspersed with the most Fox Newsy, Rush Limbaugh future you ever conservawanked. Do not read. I just don't know anymore. The last Dream Park book was kind of just okay too. But then on the gripping hand I still like a lot of his Known Space shorts and the (relatively) newer paleoCalifornia adventures The Burning City and The Burning Tower. I think there's supposed to be a third of those in the works too. They're pretty much standalone but they share an ethos with the Magic Goes Away counter-fantasy stories he wrote, in which magic existed in the real world but as a vanishing, limited and only poorly renewable resource. Native American tribes trading and profiting off of magic-laden gold and fighting off false gods might have a couple of libertarian-esque notes, but they're pretty fun and not rooted in endless evil underpinnings like the goddamn Goliath Stone.
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Jun 8, 2014 08:02
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Chairman Capone posted:I love the Magic Goes Away books; other than Song of Ice and Fire and Chronicles of Prydain, they're the only fantasy series I've ever gotten invested in. I've always been leery of reading the Burning City series because I remember Niven saying in one of his short story collections that the whole reason he wrote the first book was because he was angry at blacks for the Rodney King riots so he wanted to write a book about how evil the rioters were, and that always set off warning signs in my head. Well, that's... an inspiration I didn't expect for that book. I guess I can see it in some weird sideways view since the first part of the first book is set in a town with regular rioting due to a god of fire, with a sort of a slum-city of people who are plagued with crime and the riots because of the way the magic system works. I certainly never made any sort of  racism connection since the main character is from there and the riots aren't usually anyone's fault. And when he gets out into the rest of the world the people he meets there aren't inherently better or more moral or any crap like that, just sometimes richer or better educated/experienced. I'll still put them up as pretty good adventure stories in a poor-kid-makes-it-big way plus it's got odd gods and magic-science.It's not horrible in the way that Oath of Fealty wasn't horrible, despite that being a totally libertarian utopia story (written with Jerry Pournelle, of course). The plight of the cities the arcologies were parasiting were acknowledged as still suffering and the Todos Santos people were shown as turning kind of culty and insular instead of all supermen. Still a little too Galt's Gulchy overall I suppose. I've really got to get these nostalgia lenses in my glasses looked at. Pournelle's Janissary stories (pre-Mote Co-Dominion universe) got way too militarywank too, btw. Fortunately I can still turn off my subtext radar for most SF stories. Only a few can still "get" me right in my leftist bleeding heart. Eugh. I hate it when authors I like turn out to be kind of skeevy. ThaGhettoJew fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jun 10, 2014 |
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Jun 10, 2014 08:35
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Chairman Capone posted:I work at a university and the library was giving away a ton of fiction books today, and browsing through it I found a copy of Bowl of Heaven. I'm really looking forward to reading it, I'm really hoping that Benford manages to smooth over any late-era Niven Republican craziness and it's a return to 1970s big dumb object story form. Bowl of Heaven is actually a pretty good take on the Ringworld/Rama/etc. genre. The tech stuff and worldbuilding (natch) are decent and the characters aren't quite as flat as the bad old good old days of hard SF. OTOH it's not anything particularly new or wondrous at this point. I'd call it a competent return to form mostly, especially if you're already on board for Niven's general genre stylings. On the gripping hand for the love of all that is decent do not read The Goliath Stone that Niven co-authored with some random Man-Kzin Wars douchbag named Matthew Joseph Harrington. I bought it at the same time thinking I was going to get another Lucifer's Hammer or Footfall kind of thing and instead got some sort of weird lolbertarian future where eco-wackos ruin everything and were wrong about climate change. Also there are occasional cool sciencey bits about a comet that are almost completely divorced from the rest of the plot. Ugh. I hope Niven just soloed and then mailed in the comet parts to the Baen-Randian editor and no one ever talked to Harrington again. edit: Had a random synapse fire and realized that I posted almost exactly the same thing in this thread a year ago. Still hurts, man. ThaGhettoJew fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 12:46
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Chairman Capone posted:I have to wonder what happened to Niven. He's clearly always had right-wing views but it seems like it generally was contained (except in books he co-wrote with Pournelle, which I took to be that those aspects were Pournelle's doing). I did some internet sleuthing a while ago out of curiosity and it seems like Niven's turn to the hard right first manfisted publicly back in 2008 when he suggested that hospital overcrowding could be solved by the DHS spreading rumors in Hispanic communities that hospitals would harvest Latino organs if they went for treatment. That's also when he started writing a lot again after not putting out much from around 2000 or so. It makes me wonder if he's one of the people who just completely freaked out due to Obama's run for office. Chairman Capone posted:In any case, what I meant to say was that while I don't doubt Niven's always been right wing, it never really seemed to come out in his solo works until he started writing again around ~2008. I still enjoy the overtly libertarian Oath of Fealty since it actually acknowledges that their Galt's Arcologulch makes people kind of weirdly insular and has some detrimental impacts on its surrounding communities. Maybe less so since the "rise" of Ron Paul. And most the authoritarian mil-infused stuff he does with Pournelle is fun for a while. I guess I can overlook some writers' awkward political tendencies as long as the story supports it without blowing my suspension of disbelief too hard or preaching too obviously. A lot of 'the supremacy of the individual' and 'the Gov't is incompetent/evil' goes well with heroic adventure tales anyway. Buuuuuut then there's Terry "Rape 'em for Freedom" Goodkind.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:31
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e X posted:I started watching Babylon 5 again and that put me in the mood for some Space Opera, preferably focused on politics. I know that is not exactly the most popular subject, so it doesn't have to be just that, but I am generally not really all that into military fan wank. I once tried to read Honor Harrington and was pretty bored about half way through. So, is there any series that focuses more on interstellar politics than warfare? I've just been going back through C.J. Cherryh's Foreigner saga and it's pretty much all about high-level diplomacy between some human settlers and an alien race on their home planet through the POV of an interpreter/ambassador. It's pretty much the adventures of a beta male with a poli-sci/linguistics double degree in space-elf town, but there are lots of fun little assassination attempts and political crises while our hero has various levels of emotional trauma. So it's more a political thriller than this thread's focused Space Opera, but it probably counts.
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May 14, 2015 19:27
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