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RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
wow liesmith you're ruining my verisimilitude.

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RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire

Whybird posted:

There are lots of ways to establish a villain as a credible threat other than have him trounce the party in a fight. Have them encounter enemy NPCs who are working on his behalf, or friendly NPCs who won't help them because they're scared of him, or give them a mission where the objective is to get in and get out before he arrives.

If the aim of a fight becomes "Finish this within <x> rounds, or <NPC> will arrive and you'll be doomed" having the NPC be more powerful than the party can take when he arrives is much more justified, because by getting out of the fight in time the PCs are simultaneously establishing him as a threat and winning an encounter against him.

I think I should frame this better because I'm giving off the wrong idea.

My concept is basically a guy whos a servant to this epic level group that controls fate itself. They do this by subtlety controlling events over time illuminati style (the group is entering paragon so they will deal with this group much further down the line).

When thats not working they send this guy in, a warrior who is so powerful he decimates entire armies effectively shifting the entire direction of wars in the direction they want. The party doesnt know this though, all they know is he has a tendency to mysteriously join the ranks of an army and might be a friend one day and an enemy the next.

The ideal situation is to demonstrate this power to the PCs on the front lines, with NPCs telling them that engaging him is a bad idea and they should fight another day. But because 4e has a very gung-ho attitude I think that the party may underestimate this as hyperbole and try and engage him anyway. Is a fight they probably will not win through straight up battle OK if I dont intend to actually kill them?

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire

projecthalaxy posted:

I don't suppose that WotC has released an official org chart for the 4e Pantheon, have they? The reason I ask is this. Tiamat is usually considered higher-ranking than Asmodeus, right?
No. Very few of the god's powers have been statistically laid out for good reason. 4e tries to play more of a playground for you to think what you want.

quote:

Also, is there an official God[dess] of the Underdark? I have written myself into a corner here with my first Epic storyline.
It's practically Lolth, goddess of Drow

quote:

Also, are there general tips for making good Epic encounters? Heroic ones with bigger numbers (2 or so front line monsters, some artillery, a leader, etc) are just getting focus fired to death.

Youre not gonna be able to overcome them with sheer power due to the math. Make it so the campaign has a lot riding on success. Put in (reasonable) time limits so they cant rest as often which balances the field. Naturally don't make time limits a game over, just make things more difficult/involve signifigant loss.

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire
Well I'm gonna say in 4e you can get away with just saying "you level up" whenever you want and saying gently caress it to XP but if you don't wanna do that I reccomend a hostage situation. Perhaps bandits have the mayor's daughter and will cut her throat if they see anyone but the mayor approach their fort with the ransom money. So they have to talk to people to find more subtle ways to sneak in.

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