The GM Advice thread: Killing your players quickly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The GM Advice thread: Killing your players quickly

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

My pathfinder campaign isn�t going well. I made a custom setting that doesn�t have the normal tropes of a D&D game and I�m finding it hard to make adventures/villains/engaging encounters. If I can, I�d like to try to sum up my campaign, what I�m trying to do, and what problems I�m having; I�d appreciate any advice you�d have. I don�t want to give up on this game, but I need some help both fleshing out the setting and finding a way to slowly reveal the origin/purpose of the game world.

The game is basically taking place in a version of ancient rome that�s a ghostly ruin populated by the recently dead brought here across the history of the ancient world.

The problems boil down into two main things:

The city's empty. Rome is divided into 14 districts and while I�ve tried to make about a faction per district both the city and the factions feel poorly defined. I�m having a problem where, after 14 or so play sessions, most of the �human� factions seem pretty much on board with helping the party, leaving only about a few �monster� factions to oppose them. I wanted more politics/factionalism.

The setting is �mysterious� but I�m having trouble revealing the mystery; who made this city, why, how do they players get out of here / fix this

Ok, I�m going to have to dive into what the game is all about. I�ll separate these into quotes.

Text dump of setting/mechanics posted:

The main inspirations for the setting are Dark Souls, Wraith, Mordheim, and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. When the game started I had the players pick a 3rd level character, a culture and social station loosely based on historical settings (I just name swapped stuff like Imperial Rome, Ancient Egypt, Vikings, etc). The players were all from various pseudo-historical �realistic� times and places - they didn�t come into the game world from a place where magic was �real� (but then again they did because ancient people believed in magic, but you know, they didn�t come Grey Hawk into Ravenholm). The characters all remember dying or being in a situation where they could have died and then they �wake up� in a strange place.

The setting is a ruined city based on the city of Rome and Constantinople; I cribbed a map of Rome, named it Constantius (founded by Valerian empress Constance), and made it a costal fortress city like Constantinople.

Here�s where the influences start: the City is ruined and empty like Mordheim, a dangerous urban wilderness filled with monsters. Like in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. the players explore this dangerous place freeform, looking for treasure but also just trying to manage the various factions and figure out why they�re here. Oh yeah, you can�t leave the city because it�s surrounded on 3 sides by water and in both the water and the grey waste outside the city are just huge monsters that will kill you.

Also like in that game there are occasional storms called Maelstroms that, like the emissions in S.T.A.L.K.E.R., require everyone to hide inside. The Maelstroms, like resting at a bonfire in Dark Souls, also �resets� the city. Monsters come back and the layout of the city changes: basic geographic concepts remain the same ex: building X is always due south a ways from landmark Y, but the particulars of the streets change. When the city resets it also repopulates the insentient monsters that occupy most of the city.

The only places that aren�t affected by Maelstroms are areas that have special fountains, which are pretty much the bonfires of Dark Souls. I also created a �humanity� mechanic where humanity damage ticks up like subdual, except it only heals a hit dice a day spent resting at/near a fountain. Also, every day that you rest you have to �eat� 1 cp per total HP you have, dissolving the coins in the fountain water and drinking it. The coins aren�t actually money, they�re �pathos� slugs (like in wraith, the currency in my game is pathos, objects imbued with/created by the humanity/emotions/soul of living people.) Every time your humanity damage reaches a multiple of your total HP it�s bad; 1st multiple is just you go pathos hungry and eat a bunch of coins, but after that it becomes level drain. Take too much humanity damage you go �ragged�, essentially the hollow of dark souls.

The game is basically about exploring the city, trying to figure out why it exists, and dealing with the �innate� monsters, the other �human� factions, and the �villain� factions.

Origin of the setting, �the mystery� posted:

I was dabbling with Plato and that�s where the idea of the �why and how� of the setting came from. I didn�t start with this, I started with �I want a setting like Dark Souls� and came up with this explanation later. Some of it I�ve changed because I�m making a game world and not a summary of the Timeaus/the Republic, some of I�ve changed because I don�t know what I�m talking about.

Ok so there was a �Demiurge�, a craftsman, who builds the world. The Demiurge creates everything, but he bases his work on the �forms� (perfect conceptual versions of things, emotions, actions) that exist above and beyond what the Demiurge makes. This Demiurge receives prompting from the thoughts that emanate out from a �GodHead�. The Godhead is immoral/inhuman/inscrutable, sort of like the way Yahweh gets portrayed when he rebukes Job, whereas the Demiurge is more of a personfied god-figure with hopes and fears, etc.

The Godhead makes the Demiurge build a world, build people, but also destroy them, recreate them, etc etc. This is the �real world� that we live in/the players came from.

So the Demiurge gets sick of doing this, the constant creation and destruction, and decides he doesn�t need the �forms� from which he makes the world and if he can just get the Godhead to shut up then the Demiurge can make a perfect, ideal, unchanging world, and he can stop the cycle of creation/destruction the Godhead keeps forcing on him/the world.

With that goal in mind, the Demiurge seals up the link between the material world he�s made and the godhead, allowing the Demiurge to create a perfect and changeless world without having to tear and down and start over again from prompting from the Godhead.

This all happens far in the past (or maybe it�s all taking place �outside of time�?) of the setting: The Demiurge basically goes back through time and takes all the things he liked best, his �greatest hits�, and makes a perfect utopia. It�s great for a while but the Godhead is basically a force of nature and it can�t be bottled up forever. At some point the Godhead is banging hard on the seal between it and the world, and the Demiurge decides he has to go seal it up more. He gathers his best children and leads them up into Heaven to seal up/stop the Godhead. It doesn�t really work, the Demiurge and his greatest children are destroyed, and the seal starts to leak.

At this point we�re in the �present day� of the setting. The city is like a partly shaken etch-a-sketch, the thoughts of the Godhead come pouring out the seal, mix with the shattered souls of the Demiurge and his children, and come into the city through a tear in the sky as hurricanes full of lost souls. The Demiurge, which itself was also lesser than the Godhead, and by extension his children, are all hosed up from being broken apart/getting raged upon by the Godhead. So now the city is full of crazy angry �people� that want to put the now pissed Demiurge back together so he can, I dunno, kick over his own sand castle and take his ball and go home. So the party doesn�t really know it, but the �non human� factions that are loving with them are trying to put the Demiurge back together so he can go on a rampage or something, I dunno I literally just thought that up while writing all this out.

I figure the end of the game is going to be whether or not they want to:

1) Seal up the Godhead better, making a world that finally stops completely. Heat death?

2) Tear up the seal and let the Godhead�s thoughts pour through but without a Demiurge to shape its �desires�. Total Chaos? Thoughts without bodies?

3) Take the place of the Demiurge and go back to shaping the world? I guess this is the �hybrid� answer from ME3? Back to a �normal world�? Would this also be the end of magic?

I know those endings are a little overwrought/big picture, but my plan was to run a pathfinder game out to level 20 and (while I know there are epic levels beyond that) by the time you�re level 20 in pathfinder I�m ready to just wrap it all up and have you literally kill god or something.

Wayward Factions posted:

These are �normal� people like the players. They died, came here, now they try to survive in the city and avoid going ragged.

WarDogs. Warriors - Medieval footmen. Live in the grand forum at the Palatine, tend to hire themselves out to other factions. These guys have been real buddy buddy with the party when they�re supposed to be neutral without being dicks. I need to work more to fracture the politics of the factions.

Scintillare. Priests - blind with bandaged eyes, holding unlit lanterns. Can see the fragments of the Demiurge that come down from heaven during Maelstroms. Live right next to the party and are pretty chill with them but are also a smaller group.

Sun Touched House - Explorers. Basically a group of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. style characters, these are the people who first introduced the party to the game world. Has the most developed characters but the party doesn�t seem to give much of a poo poo about them, I think because 2/3rds of them are either worthless or untrustworthy. Also it�s a weak faction.

Tacitus. NPC sage. Trying to figure out what this world is all about, Lived in the Campus Martius which was overrun, moves around now.

Dextro. Orc assassin/mercenary. He was helping the charioteers fight the party earlier in the setting and though he was defeated the WarDogs convinced the players to give him a fair parley instead of just killing him. This is something I want more in the game: wayward factions that oppose the party and complicate the game world without it turning into total war.

Balda�s Huscarls. Warriors. Lived on the eastern shore and had the only boats. Hard drinking viking warriors that can make a mead that is a better version of fountain water. Most of them were killed or captured by the Scrivener, which I need to fix because I really did plan on the party using their mead.

Sheol Wanderers. Mages. Live along the Via Latta. They�re pretty sure this is the afterlife so why not make the best of it.

White Cloaks. Archers - English longbowman. Lived in the Campus Martius which got overrun. They got plot decimated and now mostly work for a party member who has the leadership feat.

Charioteers. Fighters - tattoos, bare chests, playing drums on the backs of Chariots. Live in the Piscina Publica near the party. The first enemy faction the party really dealt with. They�re basically a fantasy version of the Fury Road guys, they love to ride around on Chariots and kill people.

Zandi�s Arbalesters - Persian crossbowman. New Faction, I have them both being reasonable to the party and also allying with the Charioteers because I�m trying to keep the politics of the gameworld fractured instead of just having the party glob together.

Corca�ean. Warriors - celtic swordsmen. New faction, I have them looting an area near one of the villain factions so they can come back with some lore later.

Sons of Attica. Warriors - Hoplites. New faction, I have them looting an area near one of the villain factions so they can come back with some lore later.

Ashdonbal�s Children - Cannanite slingers. New faction, I have them looting an area near one of the villain factions so they can come back with some lore later.

Villain Factions posted:

These were groups or individuals that were present in the Utopian days of the setting and went crazy when the Demiurge was destroyed and his angry soul first started raining down in the Maelstroms

Pyre Priests. Necromancers. The original bad guys of the setting. They hang out at a light house on the edge of the city, burning a big mystical fire on the top. They throw people into the fire and burn away their body to make Pyre Infantry skeletons. The guard the gate that leads into Heaven where the seal is.

This is where Malestroms come from, out of the gate. The Pyre Priests are making skeletons like crazy (they can get hundreds of corpses from gaveyards every time the city resets) and sending them into the gate to try to stop things. These are the only undead of the game and though I haven�t really shown this to the players yet, undead don�t give a poo poo about Maelstroms because they�ve achieved, in a hosed up way, the �stasis� the Demiurge was looking for.

Mechanically they�re 3 liches leading about a 1,000 skeletons and a few hundred more specialized troops. As the party leveled they�ve gone from being unapproachably dangerous to �the party teleported to the roof to the tower and almost killed them all except I decided there could also be a demi lich poking around in heaven who came out to see what was wrong. The party hasn�t managed to destroy/find their phylacteries yet though so at least the liches keep coming back.

I like this guys a lot and the party enjoys hating them, but I need to make them�.DO something. Like have them go around the city sticky their noseholes into things.

Scriveners. Artificers. These guys make golems and things to do their bidding. I�m dabling with Wind Waker style islands out beyond the city and that�s where these guys live. I thought it would be a good place to hide the Demiurge�s body while he gets reassembled. Whereas the Pyre Priests are �holding the line� of trying to keep the godhead from just tearing the city apart, the Scriveners are going around looking for the pieces of the demiurge.

Mechanically they�re NPC mages and priests backed up by construct type monsters. I just made them so their monsters are much more in line with the 12 level party, which means I can use a lot less of them. Combine that with the Jewels Verne submarines they have and they�re good for sneaking around the game world looking into stuff.

Neutral Characters posted:

Silent Queen. Sorceress. I haven�t done anything with her yet, I just thought a mage in a tower loving with the characters would be good. So far I�m thinking she�s more of an observer who wants to swoop in at the last second and claim something. Maybe she thinks she can become the best Demiurge and is waiting around for the right time to steal the body from the Scriveners?

Claudius. A huge animated statue of Emperor Claudius. He�s in the game world but hasn�t done much yet. He doesn�t know who he really is why he�s alive, but he�s really strong and I figure he likes to project the weak. So far all the party knows about him is that he�s been fighting the Pyre Priests skeletons in the street and currently agitating for an alliance with various wayward factions to go kill the priests. I haven�t figure out why that is? Maybe Claudius has been around long enough to know what they�re up to? If so, why does he know it but others don�t? Why is there a �memory horizon� in the setting (which is a thing I�ve brought up before in game but haven�t explained, either to the players or myself).

Macelar. A demon. The Butcher from Diablo 1. I made him because I wanted him, I don�t have a clue who he is. The party has heard of him but hasn�t met him. Maybe he�s a piece of the Demiurge that�s already up and running, ready to kill everything? Could be a clue for the party that the Demiurge is not a nice guy anymore.

Ok guys, so that�s most of what�s going on in the game world right now in terms of backstory and setting. Very quick briefing on what the party�s up to: They�ve met and helped many of the wayward factions, established a base form themselves, and fought the pyre priests to a stand still. They also got a boat, sailed out into the ocean, and met the scriveners. The boat had Demiurge artifacts in it�s hold (size gargantuan hand tools) that were stolen from the scriveners. The scriveners have come from their island fortress to the city looking for the artifacts but have been repulsed so far.

My game starts in a couple hours, I run it from 4pm-2amish every other Saturday. The party is planning on asking Tacitus what he knows about the Scriveners and giant tools. I�m thinking that�s going to turn into a general war council in which they try to convince people to fight the pyre priests. I don�t actually want the pyre priests out of the setting yet so I plan on strengthening them with the pathfinder monster Lead Skeleton which will be a joint project/gift from the Scriveners, which will be the first clue the party has that they work together.

What I�d like to do in the future, after I run this session, is flesh out the characters of the factions better, and the locations/bases where they live. I think I need to take my spreadsheet, which currently has a disorganized �character� tab, and make 1 tab per faction and put the faction specific characters there.

As I said at the beginning which I really need help with two things: fleshing out the setting and helping reveal the background (and thus the overall goal of the gameworld). I know I just typed out a huge wall of text but if anyone could look over it I�d appreciate any advice or feedback they could give me. Just typing it out all out has given me some ideas and helped me clarify a few things.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 21:10

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# ¿ May 7, 2024 22:19

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Thanks for all your help guys; it's clear I've been trying to minutely track far too much 'behind the scenes' stuff. When I used to run games I mostly made things up on the spot and it seemed to work better than this.

I'm going to retool my game with a lot less overhead, working in broad strokes. I'm looking into that Dungeon World game. Me and my friends like 'rules heavy' games but as a GM tools the 'fronts' idea seems great; like how Cyberpunk has very complicated play rules but the GM has a "trick" for tracking organizations as though they were single characters.

My group is going to switch over to another GM for now, I and a few other players aren't happy with how the Pathfinder mechanics are treating the game world, but when I'm ready I'm going to try the setting again with a smaller scale game system and we'll see how it goes. Thanks again guys, I'm going to keep reading this thread and I'll let you know how it goes next time.

Also I couldn't get the link for Dungeon World's GM section to work, but I think this it.

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Feb 29, 2016

# ¿ Feb 29, 2016 20:10

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Though I don't always manage to follow my own advice I'm a big believer in going with the group decision while complaining about it in character.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 22:42

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

[quote="JonathonSpectre"

Mystery adventure

[/quote]

So he just has the plans on him? Will they find them if they shake him down?

I'm wondering if he talks like an uppercrust scientist vs a laborer, and if his hands are soft. Still, regardless of why they might not trust him, if they hold him upside down by his ankles does a usb drive fall out? If not, was the file already moved electronically? Is there a way to trace that?

Cool setup though, I'd like to know how it goes.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2017 22:15

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

That guy should at least play a character that jokes like that in play. When I don't have as much interest in a particular campaign I make sure to play a lazy character so that my lack of attention can at least be role played.

It's better for one character to complain to another about not paying attention than player on player.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 15:14

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Harrow, this may sound nuts, but if you do have a talk with him, try to remember the phrase, "empathy dissipates tension", maybe Google "verbal judo". It might help, best of luck.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 18:13

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

40k rpg

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 20:08

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Tias posted:

So I'm working on a campaign, which is basically deconstructing my friends view of iron age Scandinavia through Vikings and other rubbish shows.

Our guys are young deep woods tribal dudes, with working magic and spirit clerics, who try to get their poo poo together in a low-medium power setting.

Only problem is, what system to use? Fate would be best for pure storytelling, but I hate the combat resolution and treatment of magic.

I thought WFRP 2e or Legend would be really good, because both have gritty combat and a lot of potential for writing magic( and Legend a faction-intensive system good for representing tribal society), but the rest of these systems are really annoying, particularly character progression.

Any ideas for how to marry fun and possibly tactic combat with a more crunchy treatment of skills and magic than FATE?

Shadow of the demon Lord was made by a guy who loved WFRPG and is nicely streamlined.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 13:01

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

The only thing I'd add is I try to listen to the players to see what's interesting them. Skipping when theyre bored is good, skipping when they're not could be railroading.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2017 21:56

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Here is the link to the site and here is the SA thread for it.

I don't think I could ever convince my gaming group to play something like FATE, but this game has made a strong case to them that not everything needs to be Warhammer 40kRPG spreadsheets, my game sessions go quick and there's still enough crunch that players can while away the time between game dreaming of their character choices.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2017 13:15

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

I need help with putting in future plot hooks. I sort of think I should just put weird quirks or things in the game and wait to see what the players bite at, but I'm drawing blanks and my next session is tomorrow night.

It's a Shadow of the Demon Lord Game, which makes it's basically low fantasy horror with a Cthulhu monster lurking in the background (and his impending arrival is normally the main thrust of any campaign).The next session covers what the party (separated) does for a year before a crisis will draw them all together again. The session itself will be four turns around the table, one for each season, describing what each character is doing (agreed upon before hand, but we're going to flesh it out and I'm going to do some question and answer).

Here's what each character is doing over the year, I'd like to work in plot hooks about cultists that are hastening the demon lords awakening:

Fighter 1: Guard at some Iron mines. This will include "real" scene of rescuing some miners captured by Ogres.
Fighter 2: Wastes money in a port town and ends up on a rail road chain gang.
Rogue 1: Surveying on a new line for a rail road.
Rogue 2: Ditto. Also, the railroad involves a played through scene in which the railroad workers have to fight off the ever more numerous beastmen.
Priest: Itinerant priest, is going to arrive immediately after an earthquake in a small town and help people.
Magician 2: Going to seek out hedge magic but is always moving on because he's worried
Magician 1: Goes to a military mage academy. This will include a played through scene in which a ship of zombies crashes into the docks.

So, I'm not sure how to work in plot hooks about a cult without being obvious. I'm particularly wary of people wearing uniforms, just feels dumb.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2017 01:11

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

That's just what I needed, thanks!

# ¿ Aug 25, 2017 02:48

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Ooo, I hadn't considered that the cultists should be in plain sight, in power. I think, one season, a senior engineer will modify a route the surveyor suggested (closer to the eerie place), thanks.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2017 04:02

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

The first (and only) adventure was based around possessed animals acting like Hitchcock's birds, so while I do think the party will immediately tune in on "that squirrel is giving you the stink eye" I want to let that sit for a while.

I do like the idea of multiple PCs catching some glimpse of the railroad's tainted design and construction, but I'm worried about laying it on too thick - if every time I turn to a player I slip in "and here's a creepy railroad thing",by the end of the session the party is going to think "this railroad is straight up evil and lets get to the bottom of it right now". And yeah, that's an adventure, but it also means all my hooks are just feeding straight into the next game. I guess I just have to be careful with my descriptions and strike a balance between setting up the next immediate adventure and possibly distant future problems.

Edit: Maybe it only seems thick when they're all written out side by side, maybe, if they come in the middle of larger descriptions it'll feel subtler. I find things often look obvious to the GM but I don't want to go too far and beat my players over the head with it.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2017 13:16

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

What do you guys do when you ask a player to improvise an npc and they go too far. Interpret it carefully?

Like if I said "what's distinctive about this paladin orders horses " and they said "they can fly", and that's not gonna work...make it instead a legend based on the founder having a Pegasus? And maybe their horses all have little winged horse shoes like Pegasus boots?

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 16:02

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Every rebuttal I form is a variationof the player not matching the theme of the game or setting, which is a different issue. And this was just a theoretical example, it hasn't actually come up.

I think we're all in agreement. I appreciate the input though, good answers.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 18:12

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Just as a note, on the subject of monsters they shouldn't fight, since players DO default to thinking that of course they should fight the monster in an rpg, in games like this where they shouldn't, it can be handy to set an example before them of trained and equipped npcs being no match for the monster.

Like if two police squad cars, each of which should have two cops, are found abandoned, with lots of empty shell casings all around, including from a shotgun that one policeman had time to get from his trunk, that can be a good sign to the players that guns are not the answer.

May also just straight up need a mentor npc to set them straight on a sort of introduction, if you can swing it.

Because man, players will have a showdown with the devil himself if they think they're supposed to.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2017 14:28

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

It's easier to deal with in games that aren't about combat, I agree. The trickier situation is games that do involve combat, but where not all fights are winnable. Out of game talks are king, but I do see some value in dropping the right signals in-game. Maybe this is more because I've been gaming with the same people for 10+ years and they'll know what I mean.

Oh, hey, I could use some helping naming a certain paladin order who's mounts can maybe fly. By the way, getting player input on world building is amazing and I can't believe it took me this long to introduce it.

Me:
"There is a paladin order. I've decided thier founder had a Pegasus, and in honor of him all the horses have little decorative mercury wings on their hooves, and legend says that in times of great need their steeds can take flight."

Q: What weapons do they use, and why;

"Maces. Rocket powered maces." [I think this was a joke but there's enough steam punk in this setting to justify rocket maces. Or they could be divinely rocket powered. Whatever, the player clearly said "rocket maces" and then said "whoosh crack" so I'm putting it in there. I'm never going to make a setting too serious for players to have fun, and whoosh crack maces are making an appearance. Maybe even just one long lost artifact, the heavenly mace of whoosh-crack.]

Q: What was their base/hq like, and what happened to it:

"A mountain top base that has been lost with time. Legends today remember the HQ as being located on the clouds."

Q: This is paladin order of the new God, and generally they embody the virtues of their faith. But they do have one unsettling doctrine. What is it?

"They kill horses whose riders die in battle. ...and vice versa"

Q: (Final Question, to the player that will actually be joining them) The order has fallen on hard times recently. They've battled, and are losing, against a dark foe, an enemy heavy with the demon Lord's shadow. Who has the order been fighting, and what happened to turn things against the order?

"It started with a few burned buildings in a city to the east. What was one fire every few weeks became an almost nightly affair by the time the Order was involved. The groups of men and women causing the fires are disfigured by burns. All come from the lowest rung of life, the destitute and forgotten. Their bodies horribly burned in ways that should kill them. They are fixated with flames and seem to lack much of their humanity, going from trance like chanting to frantic violence. Whatever set this cult of flame into motion unfortunately has spread and despite successes in rooting out some of their ritual dens, fires have started in other cities. The order was stomping out and defeating the followers but the source of the spreading influence alludes them and fighting has slowly taken its toll with casualties, thinning resources and dwindling moral. There are simply too few of the order and the Cracked and Burned, as they have come to be called, reappear with seemly no reason over a spreading area."

So, what are these guys called? This is a cult of the new God from Shadow of the Demon Lord, so I could always name them __'s Winged Riders and go re-read "Uncertain Faith" to remind myself who Astrid's kingly first supporter was, but I'd like to see if someone else has something better. I also keep thinking of the (Prussian?) Winged Hussars when I think about these guys.

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Sep 19, 2017

# ¿ Sep 19, 2017 02:04

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

...but I don't really want another long rear end session of them fighting another group of 6 giants...

I haven't yet regretted abstracting any fights that didn't "feel right" for the pace of the game. Whether it's hurt monsters the players are about to wipe out or times when the party is about to replicate a battle they just completed, neither I nor the players have complained when I wrap it all up with one sentence and move on to the next thing.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2017 06:56

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

I need some world building help for my Shadow of the Demon Lord game, but no setting specific knowledge required.

The question is that the players want to know how to destroy tainted magical relics and I need some help thinking of an appropriate method/procedure/labor.

Some necessary background I'll keep brief:

My players keep finding magical relics belonging to "Vorneer Sun-Eater", the apparent big baddie of the game. He's a sort of a Sauron type figure, the last surviving lieutenant of the mythical fell Fae ruler Gog Maggog. The party has started to realize that 1) There are a lot of these relics 2) They're all cursed 3) People who have them start thinking and acting strangely 4) The items are tainted with a little piece of Vorneer's Soul.

The party doesn't know that, basically, Vorneer doesn't exist anymore but he seeded these artifacts everywhere and anyone who finds and uses them 1) starts to think and act like he did and 2) wants more of the artifacts. Get enough of them and you're indistinguishable from the "real" Vorneer.

So how can my party destroy these Relics? What's some method that both ties into what these relics are and also would be suitably difficult for a low fantasy setting to accomplish?

# ¿ Nov 25, 2017 02:39

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

I like all these ideas and I think they can be used in some way. Also, the relics are all kinds of things, Vorneer gave them out liberally to his commanders during his reign to bind them and when he saw the end coming he went into overdrive and scattered them everywhere. Some are minor (not even magical mechanically) and some are powerful relics.

All these ideas are great: I'll use the collection > possession > destruction mechanic for the end game and the "metaphorical opposite" throughout the game to safely store/nullify the relics. The party already have a wicked two handed sword and I'd like to see the players decide that it's opposite is a ploughshare (the truth is I'll accept any answer they spend some thought on and I'm not going to waste time thinking up the "right" opposite, outside of any stray thoughts).

I did have another question/element about my end game I would really appreciate feed back on.

So, these artifiacts taint you, making you act like Vorneer. About half of the "B list" faction bad guys have a powerful Vorneer relic making them do things. But here's the thing: I invented Vorneer in the moment when a player essentially used "identify" on some loot. The first magical loot the party found, a magical chest, is a Vorneer artifact. And they love the thing!

I really want to get the players to buy into the idea that they're turning into Vorneer, but I'm trying to be very, very subtle about it. No dice rolls, no rail-roading, no M. Night twist. That's what I need help with/feed back on.

So far the party understands that using Vorneer relics, like wearing armor or wielding weapons, taints you. I've had players who handle such things make saves against corruption, it's very overt. Once they realized the danger they asked a lot of questions about their magical box and we came to the conclusion that the box is not inherently dangerous and they are storing the other relics inside it. But this campaign idea of:

A) These relics change how you act and make you want more of them, and the more you get the worse it is
-VS-
B) We, the heroes, have to find all the relics to destroy them

That sets up a nice end game where the players do, on one level, exactly what the bad guys are doing; and the fact the Vorneer destroyed intentionally destroyed himself, an act the players will repeat. My basic plan so far is to be very, very vague with Vorneer's actual life and personality and then towards the end of the game, start to drop bits of information about his deeds that match whatever notable things the players have done. This means I never have to do force the players to do anything; I do it the other way around and make Vorneer a mirror of the players.

I'm wary because I, the GM, have told them (through research and talking to NPCs, etc) what is and isn't safe, and that's a rug I really don't want to yank out from under them.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2017 15:37

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

So I could make their magic box start having new items in it? And not explain that the items are coming from somewhere else? (From the hands of people who really needed those items and are now dead?)

# ¿ Nov 25, 2017 22:43

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

What happens in the divine economy when gods of opposing traits ome into conflict? Like the bickering in the illiad for example?

# ¿ Nov 27, 2017 02:02

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Does anyone have any advice on running non combat adventures? I've never done that and only realized it's on the table a day before I run.

My next game will be a one session mini adventure about a train ride into the major city of the setting. I plan to divide the session into three scenes, and what I'm thinking for the scenes was 1)some socializing on the ride, introduce NPCs from previous games as passengers, have them talk to the party, encourage RP, etc. 2) introduce some non combat problems, intentionally keeping it non-epic, ex: A) unexpected birth on train, B) a passenger being told to leave, C) the party investigating a theft where the item was actually misplaced 3) A large formal dinner on the train where I can work in reactions from NPCs based on how the players acted in 1) and 2).

Any tips on general "arcs" I can use in non combat adventures? Like the non combat equivalent of 1) goblins attack the inn at night 2) a posse forms with the party to scour the woods for missing children 3) the players are sent into the old forest cave to get the kids.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 15:10

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Shadow of the deamon lord, I'd say it's closer to D&D than FATE, despite SotDL speaking in universal terms for it's mechanics. I say that because as I understand it FATE really is universal, whereas both SotDL and D&D have more robust combat mechanics vs social. But I don't really want to...laden the rp with mechanics?

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 16:30

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

My favorite GM had the same attitude, but instead of puzzles it was a mummy in a sarcophagus on the top of a column rising out of an abyss, in warhammer fantasy. The GM told me that his planning extended to the Mummy rising up from his sleep, grabbing a player, and throwing him off the column.

When I asked him how he thought the players would win, he said he didn't know anything but that the Mummy was probably gonna murder a player a turn until they thought of something.

Bright wizard killed the Mummy after it chucked one player, everyone loves the fight, but the GM talks about that mummy, years later, as if someone ran over his dog :v:

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Nov 30, 2017

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 17:12

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

chitoryu12 posted:

One of my worst gaming moments was a DM having us suddenly need to solve a Sudoku puzzle in the middle of traversing another plane of existence. I didn’t know how Sudoku worked, so I ended up loving off to another room in the house until the DM realized that nobody could solve it quickly and let us finally roll for INT.

He should have self inserted an obnoxious overlord that built the puzzle and let the party both complain to and murder him.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 19:08

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

I have the whole party nominate one person. The group gets one roll, for anything. I have 8 players so my priorities may be different.

EDIT hey Anyone have quick suggestions for what questions I can ask my players as they build out my capitol city? It's an ongoing Google hangout but I'm running out of ideas.

So far I've asked what was there before the city, what unusual district does it have, what is the mayor's preoccupation, and what common item is banned oweing to its association with a past mania.

All of these questions have an implied "And how is it spooky" that I may not be conveying in a phone post.

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Nov 30, 2017

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 20:44

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

We only know this is a bad idea because we did it in middle school.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 22:26

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Show, don't tell, the spider guy connection. Make this new ogre that's enabling the chief be a gift from him. Have the road orc complain about "ever since that ogre showed up" and "weird ogre from parts unknown, always doing X."

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 23:02

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

If your party likes it and you've put some work in it, that'll be fine then, those notes sound good.

So the party already knows he's the big And? Are they actively opposing him at this point?

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 23:27

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Spending money to outfit other parties could let the players accomplish goals they don't have time to do themselves. You can get an idea of the costs by looking at the starting gold of level one characters.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2017 09:33

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

My group uses roll 20 for heavy, heavy combat in games like d&d and 40k....except when I'm running. I run a much simpler system and do almost all in ToTM, and there's a trick: the players are always right.

What will kill ToTM is telling the player their declared action won't work, that they're out of range or can't land the aoe, whatever.

If you always yield to how the players have built the scene in their head, doing it all verbally goes smoothly.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2017 17:53

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Maybe the life spirit could focus on debuffs, but can only give them debuffs they've previously been healed of?

You know, It's doing a "take back" on healing they've had throughout their lives.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2017 13:09

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

The only thing I'd add to all the great advice so far is that if Ryman goes up to the party in person and announces his plan...he's not getting out of that room alive/uncaptured, right? But then you've lost the "face" of this racist army (I don't know how much you've been role playing the various sub-captains of the guard or whatever, but surely Ryman is the guy).

So maybe have Ryman send a lieutenant to the party with his offer/demand so that you still have the big baddie saved for the actual crisis.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2017 14:37

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

I could use some help with my next session of Shadow of the Demon Lord. It'll be 3 highlight scenes covering 5 years (during a time of famine, economic crisis, and public dissent). I'm also going to run them in reverse so that the players start with the end of a story and work back a bit:

1. Hanging (year 10) - The scene is an execution of the infamous outlaw Scarborough, an anarchic warrior and demagogue that terrorized the country-side for years.
2. Riot ( Year 9) - The capital city is consumed in a bloody riot, vengeful and desperate veterans fill the streets, repeating and propagating a recent speech by a well known former infantry commander, Scarborough.
3. War ( Year 5) - The final battle of the Ogre War will see the remaining elite of the military collation storm the Ogre King's last fortress; Scarborough is a dedicated but war-weary leader of men.

I need help turning each of these into a single scene with interesting choices for the players. I want the action to ramp up as the session goes on, with the hanging being the shortest scene, entirely social; the Riot would be longer and involve lots of conflict but not actual combat mechanics - players dealing with mobs, saving/escorting people, checking in with various NPCs they know in the city. And then the final Scene is no-holds-barred-combat.

My biggest concern is the Hanging. It's going to be slow, mostly social, but I'd also be asking the players to role play an event they won't entirely understand. I'd appreciate any tips on choices/situations I could present to the players.

Also, I'm always trying to bring more player world-building into the game, anything jump out as good questions I could ask the group during the scenes? I thought of maybe in the Riot have the crowd accuse the party members of things, some of which are false, some of which are misunderstood, and some of which are true.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2018 02:35

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Can I get some "random encounters" ideas for exploring a space hulk filled with Alien style monsters? I'm going to be running the exploration of the ship like a classic D&D dungeon, you know, go through the hallways, come upon doors, find treasure or maybe monsters. So I'm looking for ideas like:

- the chamber is depressurized
- the door isn't powered
- there's a corpse in the room, but the door was barred (moving the furniture around the trashed room reveals a broken out vent)

Stuff like that, I'd appreciate anything that can be thrown out, I'll write it all down and bring it with me.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 16:11

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

These are great. And yeah, the crew is decades dead, but it was a penal legionnaire troop transport that rioted en-route, but which was also unknowingly seeded by a chest-burster alien that still speaks in snatches like the hosts it infects. And the crew-mutant-aliens are still alive, but dormant. Until the party shows up.

So yeah, I could have the long dormant speakers on the ship start up with revolutionary slogans and security guard orders.

Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Aug 10, 2018

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 16:35

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Hell yes, reminds me of Alan Wake; I'll try that.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2018 16:42

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# ¿ May 7, 2024 22:19

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

kidkissinger posted:

i strongly feel that you shouldn't be answering questions like this.

Seriously, what's he going to ask next, the location of the hidden treasure? In my extended gaming group we would answer any such question with FOIP, find out in play.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2019 17:25

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The GM Advice thread: Killing your players quickly

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