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Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
I would be interested in a shadowrun game.

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Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
I'd like to try a troll.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
The best way to deal with a smaller group of shadowrunners is to have them hire a hacker to do their hacking stuff. Then you get the bonus of not having to mess with those rules!

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

LGD posted:

I'm waaaaaaaaaaay more offended by the Slow spell.


See there's the normal "we didn't bother thinking the consequences of these rules through" fuckup, and then there's this bullshit. One success on this spell plus manabolt lets you murder NI mundanes. Or maybe they're just admitting the truth- there has never been any reason to play anything but a Wizard in SR RAW.

Looks like you could cast it on someone, and they (and their bullets) couldn't move faster than 1 meter per second, i.e. a slow walk.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
OK, so me and a friend are about to play our first Shadowrun game, and I'd like to get some feedback on our characters. He is playing the street samurai straight out of the 20th anniversary book, since it fit his concept pretty well.

My shaman
pre:
Metatype : Elf
Magician

Attributes
Body: 2
Agility: 4
Reaction: 5
Strength: 2
Charisma: 7
Intuition: 3
Logic: 2
Willpower: 5

Edge: 1
Magic: 5
Initiative: 8
Essence: 6
 
Knowledge Skills
TBD
	 	
Active Skills
Con : 1
Etiquette : 1
Leadership : 1
Negotiation : 1
Disguise : 1
Inflitration : 1
Palming : 1
Shadowing : 1
Climbing : 1
Gymnastics : 1
Running : 1
Swimming : 1
Assensing : 2
Astral Combat : 1
Binding : 1
Spellcasting (Combat) : 5
Summoning (Beast spirits) : 1
Binding (Beast spirits) : 1
Perception : 1
Pilot Ground Craft (Bike) : 1
Pistols (Semi-Automatics) : 1
Counterspelling (Combat spells) : 1
Ritual Spellcasting : 1

Positive Qualities
Mentor Spirit
	 	
Negative Qualities
Bad Luck
Scorched
Addiction, mild (Stimulants)
 
Weapons
Concealable Holster
Spare Clips
Spare Clips
Stick-n-Shock (10 shots)
Stick-n-Shock (10 shots)
Regular Ammo (10 shots)
Ares Predator IV
Ares Predator IV
	 	
Armors
Actioneer Businnes Clothes
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit
Fire Resistance (Rating 6)
Insulation (Rating 6)
Nonconductivity (Rating 6)
Chemical Protection (Rating 6)
Helmet (for Urban Explorer Jumpsuit)
 
Vehicles
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
 
Commlinks
Commlink : Novatech Airware
	 	
Equipments
Sustaining Focus (Rating 3)
Glasses
+Smartlink
+Flare Compensation
+Vision Enhancement (Rating 3)
+Image Link
+Vision Magnification
Earbud
+ Audio Enhancement (Rating 3)
Sustaining Focus (Rating 1)
Magical Lodge Materials (Rating 5)
4x Fake License (Rating 4)
4x Fake License (Rating 4)
2x Fake SIN 4
 
Spells
Lightning Bolt
Stunbolt
Stunball
Heal
Chaos
Increase Reflexes
Clairvoyance
Control Actions
Detect Enemies Extended
	 	
Spirits
	 	
Contacts
Shaman (L:4 C:3)
I plan to have Increase Reflexes using my rating 3 sustaining focus, and Detect Enemies, Extended in my rating 1 focus.

Are there any suggestions or things that either of us should be aware of with what we have?

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Tias posted:

You'd best pick up the Ambidextrous quality and up your pistols score if you have plans to dual wield those Predators. That said, it can pay off to just carry two pistols, one loaded with stun and one with lethal ammunition tailored to the job at hand.

That was the plan.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
My real life game fell through and I still haven't gotten to play Shadowrun.

Someone run Shadowrun so I can play Shadowrun.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
I don't know why Shadowrun seems intent on hosing melee so much. If they just made melee attacks simple instead of complex actions it might actually be worth it to use melee, but as it is choosing to fight in melee is choosing to be less powerful. As it is it's just real bad - you have to pump an additional stat (strength) since that's where your damage comes from, you have to waste time running up to someone and can never hit anything in the air, your attack pool is going to be 2 points lower (since no smartlinks), you only get one attack per turn, AND their defense is higher since they get to add a skill.

Piell fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Apr 23, 2012

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

SerCypher posted:

I just realized I can take two weapon foci katanas and attack with both of them, since, to my understanding, you apply the foci bonus, the reach and custom handgrips after splitting the pool. So I would still be looking at about 13 dice per sword.

Also someone said something about rail drones, the whole point of using a sword is to be stealthy, one of the other 5 people on the team can shoot it down.

That's like saying every character using guns is useless because they are ineffective against spirits.

Yeah a sword is not right for every situation, but neither is a gun, or magic, or whatever, that's why you are a team.

If you're going to be double swording it up, use the Martial Arts rules from Arsenal and get to make a full defense plus an attack each round! Not to mention quick drawing your katanas and getting +1 DV, and only needing to spend 2 points to get ambidextrous besides.

Anyway you can get far more stealthy with guns than with a bigass katana. Slap chameleon coating on a pistol with silencer and electronic firing, and you're set. Make it a Manual Breakdown for "not looking like a weapon at all", or, for maximum concealment, make it a Morissey Elan for being a holdout pistol AND being invisible to MAD scanners. You can even put Manual Breakdown on that as well!

That's not to say unarmed/melee weapons aren't stylish as all hell. You just have to pay in terms of effectiveness for that style, and I wish you weren't forced to.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Nucular Carmul posted:

A few buddies of mine are grabbing books to play this. I'm thinking about playing a Troll Enforcer who specializes in melee and uses cybernetics to punch/stab/smash things even harder. A couple of questions:

1. What sort of restrictions are there typically on martial arts? I was looking through Arsenal, thinking about picking up some moderate skill in several, enough to grab one or two of the advantages, but not really mastering any in particular. As an example, I'm thinking of taking Krav Maga for the +1 Disarm and Ready Weapon as a Free Action, Wrestling for +1 Knockdown and +1 to Subduing Combat rolls, and possibly Escrima for +1 DV Blades and another +1 for Disarms. I want to get some feedback from a few DMs to see if I would be allowed to have the Disarm bonus from two different styles. I plan to use knives and clubs mostly, possibly a vibro sword as well, and also be able to switch to unarmed if I get disarmed.

You can take as many different martial arts as you spend points on. However, the maximum amount of martial arts you can get is 4 bonuses, you couldn't get all of those you listed at once. Bonuses from different styles stack, but you can't go above +3 DV for a single thing.

Mystic Mongol posted:

Especially when you're using cyberware you can get a lot of attributes for really, really cheap in BP. Spend some of those savings on not being a complete moron. A functionally retarded character absolutely will be arrested within a week.

This is totally true. You can get Muscle Augmentation 2, Muscle Toner 2, Reaction Enhancer 2, and Cerebral Booster 2 for 70k and 1.8 essence (in reality lower, since the halving for the lower bioware/cyberware essence loss.). That's +8 to various attributes for only 12 BP.

Edit: You can even tack on a Supathyroid Gland for another +4 attributes for pretty cheap, though you do have to take a Restricted Gear quality.

Piell fucked around with this message at 09:43 on May 1, 2012

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Nucular Carmul posted:

Hmm, I have been slowly coming to the realization that my buddies might not be approaching this game correctly. Thanks for your advice, guys, I will probably need to bring this up with them. One guy is making a pure magic character and another is going gun focused. I was just going by what they were doing and figured they'd need a melee character :shobon:

Basically, every Shadowrun character should be able to contribute in 3 common situations that occur in nearly every run

1) Planning and Pre-execution - You're gathering information/supplies/gear. Ways to contribute include
- Magical detection or manipulation
- Hacking/Computer skills
- Talking skills
- Scouting skills (Rigging drones to scout, disguising yourself, sneaking in)
- Having contacts and knowing people
- Having lots of useful gear or being able to create/modify your own.

2) Performing the run - actual doing the run. Ways to contribute include but are not limited to
- Hacking/Computer skills
- Talking skills
- Stealth skills
- Any specialized ability (B&E, explosives, having no noticeable ware, etc)

3) Combat - Ways to contribute include but are not limited to
- Ranged Combat skills
- Close Combat skills
- Magical combat skills
- Rigging

Every character (at least, IMO) should be able to contribute at least in all three phases of a run, or risk having a boring time and not be useful to the group. A troll focused on knives has stage 3 locked down, but what's he going to do the rest of the time? From the description of your group (a gun guy and a mage), you could pick up basic hacking duties for relatively cheap. (Hacking skill w/ exploit focus, Computer, and Data Search plus a decent commlink and programs. Alternatively, skip the skills and get an Agent instead) You wouldn't be as good as a focused hacker, but you can help in a pinch

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

piL posted:

I haven't read 4th e rules in a while, and never really 'got' it, but doesn't the magic stat preclude you from being a technomancer, or is it just being a mage that does? Because cat technomancer is even more attainable, chasing pretty AR overlays that aren't even really there.

You cannot have both Magic and Resonance at once.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
A chameleon coated Morrissey Elan is -8 concealment and immune to MAD scanners. Get Easy Breakdown on it if you really want to take it anywhere. Use Stick and Shock and have it be just as good as a full size pistol (and more than shock gloves) while still staying nonlethal.

Also laughing at the idea that corp security guards are going to easy on you because you are trying to punch them instead of shoot them when you're caught breaking into a high security area. No, they're going to shoot you down without a thought. Shadowrun is a setting where mages can set you on fire with their minds and adepts and cybered-up street sams can punch through steel walls, just because a guy doesn't have a gun doesn't mean he isn't able to kill you.

Piell fucked around with this message at 18:49 on May 1, 2012

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Mystic Mongol posted:

Stop asserting things, make a scenario.

Your hacker gets noticed and kicked off, and now you're noticed breaking into a safe inside highly secured corp territory since he's no longer hiding you from the cameras and sensors. The spider sends a Doberman drone or a cybered guard to the only entrance to the room. Or you're caught planting explosives by a random security guard check. Or some guy is running away from you carrying the McGuffin and just about to climb into a vehicle. Or you're a human breaking into ORC headquarters, and there's a cybered-orc standing by the door.

Edit: Also who said anything about killing? Stick and Shock forever.

Piell fucked around with this message at 19:16 on May 1, 2012

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Mystic Mongol posted:

Why is this a scenario predicated upon me being the member of the team best qualified for creeping? Was there seriously no one sneaky or tough to fill the skilled job of, 'going somewhere dangerous'? If I was trying to infiltrate a building as a face, I wouldn't be filling a bruiser or a ninja's role.

But I guess if I take a fragile character, enter a room with no exits, and wait patiently there for someone to come to guard the door, then yes, I would be in pretty bad shape. I guess my plan would be something along the lines of, "Use a gymnastics of fifteen to vault that chump." Or better yet, "Don't go in that room alone, if it's really so important that I am entirely dependent on a hole in camera coverage to get there I will bring someone tough along to because honestly I am not sure what I am doing there."

Or, if I'm allowed to do any prep work before you thust me into goddamn thunderdome, I adjust my hat, walk up to the cybered guard, and ask why security response was a full eleven seconds. I'm sure he's got cyberware that makes him resilient to bullets, as well as armor, but cyberware that helps you in social combat is extremely rare, so trying to convince him we're doing drop in security checks by toggling the matrix overwatch is more likely to be successful than shooting at him with a gun, even were I specialized in it.

If your plan relies on the enemy making every mistake from the Evil Overlord's handbook it is a bad plan.

Now, I'm not saying you need a gun on every mission. But categorically stating that a gun is never useful in any situation every and you can just spam charisma and gymnastics for everything is ludicrous.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Mystic Mongol posted:

The marginal gain a fragile character gets from packing heat doesn't make up for the fact he's packing heat. Suddenly whenever he says you can trust him, you're not thinking, can I really trust him, you're thinking, I wonder if he's going to kill me. You lose the ability to defuse hostile situations by imploring for a resolution where everybody profits, because they know you're just looking for an opportunity to shoot someone.

Being the face is more than just spamming charisma. You have to have believable lies, you have to make reasonable negotiations, and you need to make concessions--like not being a hardened killer. If you can't be bothered not to slaughter people, you shouldn't be face primary.

Every mage and many adepts can kill you without a single weapon. Acting like someone without a gun is going to be seen as safe somehow is stupid.

Also stop ignoring the fact that Stick and Shock, Gel Ammo, and Tasers exist in favor of IF I HAVE A GUN I HAVE TO MURDER EVERYONE ALL THE TIME.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
Also acting like you can pull a "This is a secret inspection, why are you so slow!" and have it work is stupid. I am an actual real life security guard and if I caught someone in my building in the middle of the night that would not get by me.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

pw pw pw posted:

I can't remember what the relative ranges of those two weapons are, but I'm sure the taser is a good choice too. You can keep the shock glove, but it's really more of a backup to a backup.

Narcoject pistol max range is 50 vs taser's 20, but the taser uses Pistols skill instead of Exotic so it's usually the better option. That or just getting some SnS ammo in a regular pistol.

Edit:

quote:

The shock glove just sucks. Only 5 electricity, you have to hit them with it, and it's restricted. Taser is awesome because you can literally have that poo poo in the equivalent of your purse and when corpsec searches you on the way in with your fake I.D. you can just say your sister got mugged and you are taking precautions. Worst case scenario they just hold it at the desk for you.

Also, the shock glove is immediately noticeable (you're wearing shock gloves!) and a taser is relatively easy to conceal. And if you're using a shock glove, they get to add a skill to dodge or block or parry, instead of going against straight reaction like they would against the taser.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Mystic Mongol posted:

I fixed that robot part for you. The rigger has to greenlight the kill, because otherwise some egghead scientist would accidentally open the wrong door and get shredded by an automatic security program.

It's not a clumsy lie--I've come prepared with shoulder swatches of the appropriate security guard, because I have done the bare minimum amount of preparation, which is to dress for the job I want, not the job I have. Again, you are trying to throw me in thunderdome, but you'd only get my face character in a small windowless room with no explanation of what he was doing in there if you were playing him for me.

My 19 dice, plus 2 for plausible evidence, minus 3 for hostile target, minus 4 for desired result (letting Shadowrunner walk out of locked room whistling) being disastrous, and I'm sitting pretty at 14. Let's say it's a high ranged Lone Star Lieutenant, and he's rolling, with his +1 for being professionally suspicious, five dice, plus a professional rating of 3, for a total of 8.

You've stacked the deck against me by forcing Paint-By-Numbers to be caught with his pants down in a disadvantageous situation, but a face with his mind-bending chemical sprayers can talk his way past a guard.

So now the plan is "pretend to be a guard when the guards almost certainly know what each other look like, and in addition the security spider can pull up their locations at any time." So when the security guard texts the security spider that going to check out a noise, and it was just another security guard where no security guard is listed to be, that's just gonna be flaunted by.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

pw pw pw posted:

Ok, so after you have magically lied yourself and your mage and street samurai into the facility, where exactly are you hiding while your team does the parts of the mission where you have to go into a room with one exit and crack a safe and take something out and leave through the same exit? How do you think your team feels about this?

Yeah, "entering a interior room with only one exit" is not exactly uncommon. For example, pretty much every server room, many offices, etc. are likely locations to have to enter that fit this description.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Mystic Mongol posted:

Why's he arresting me? I'm in uniform.

Argh, I'm tired of trying to explain this. This isn't a dungeon crawl, it's a functioning office building. Guards are not psychic, they don't attack on sight if you don't have a lime green mohawk. A face takes on an appropriate appearance so he doesn't raise suspicion. And a face isn't caught up by pressure plates and security cameras because he generally doesn't make infiltration checks. He investigates the situation, assumes an appropriate persona for the situation, retrieves the objective, and leaves. He doesn't hide from the building's security rigger by relying on spoofed matrix tests, he hides from the security rigger by being one of hundreds of employees, or possibly by calling up the security rigger and asking if he's available to come to the hospital, his father has suffered a ghoul attack and we're not sure if he'll last out the night.

Yes, if you put him in a room and put a guard at the door to the room trying to kill him he is in a bad way. But he is also in a bad way if you put him five hundred feet in the air, or if you cover him in flesh eating beetles, but in play a player is unlikely to have him dive out of a helicopter or fill his bathtub with awakened para critter insects.

Guards know what each other look like. You do not look like one of his security guard buddies, but are dressed like one in a heavily secured area. Also you aren't carrying the REQUIRED loving GUN THAT REAL SECURITY HAS. Thus, you are a disguised intruder and should be arrested or shot on sight.

Also that security rigger would have just lost his job for leaving his post without a replacement. poo poo, as an actual security guard I'm not allowed to leave my post if it's ME who is dying before my replacement arrives.

Edit: Hang on lemme dig out my Security Manual from my company and find the line.

Piell fucked around with this message at 20:18 on May 1, 2012

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
From my manual:
"It is the employee's full responsibility to complete his/her scheduled full-time or part-time shift. If a personal emergency occurs and the employee must attend a personal matter, he/she must remain on site, contact their immediate supervisor and the 24-hour Support Center for early dismissal instructions. Failure to comply with this policy and procedure will result in disciplinary action. This action could also result in action against your profession license, if applicable."

So that spider just lost his job and his license. This is the rule for a basic near-minimum wage security guard in a basically zero-security facility. You're talking about a paranoid megacorp and a high security area just waiving it off.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Mystic Mongol posted:

And again, for the hundredth time, saying, "Suddenly you are trapped in a room because something you weren't relying on and don't care about stopped working," isn't something I need to have a plausible response to. Simply throwing ninteen dice of con at the problem is all the solution I feel I need to, "Suddenly that guard grows suspicious."

I can't give plans B or C (or even A, really) when you can't be arsed to say what I'm infiltrating. All I know is that there's a room and a guard, and then later you decided you wanted to throw in a safe too.

I give up. You don't have a clear picture of a location, just a vague and nebulous chamber with a flashing sign saying 'they see through it, because training.'

You're assuming perfect intelligence and perfect execution in literally every stage of the plan. This is stupid. There's always going to be something you missed or didn't plan for or messed up at, and that's when a gun comes in handy (Not is required, is handy, especially for a new player).

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Willie Tomg posted:

2 mooks 15 meters apart from you and each other with pistols. With incredible GM permission you close 15 meters in one phase and melee the first guy who goes down, phase rolls down to the second guy who plugs you square in the thigh for an adjusted S.

Now you're hosed.

One guy with an SMG 30 meters away.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

SerCypher posted:

Yeah I've always found that you really need 3 hopefully 4 passes to be decent in melee. You have to use the first one just to cartwheel towards them and dodge bullets.

Edit: Also looked at that build again, those throwing knives are going to do poo poo damage with 5 str and no martial arts.

With how distance is divided between, it can even take 2 or 3 passes sometimes just to get into melee! Also yeah, get the two +DV damage from Martial Arts. Throw knives or ceramic knives, not throwing knives (you only lose a max of 5 meters at the longest ranged, and gain +2 DV). That'd give you 6 DV which ain't bad.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

SerCypher posted:

Throw vibro-knives :chord: .

That poo poo's expensive, yo.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

pw pw pw posted:

Which is why we're recommending such a paltry amount of build points dedicated to making you not totally hosed in a fight if someone shoots you in the leg.

YOU CAN STILL DODGE BULLETS while shooting bullets! No one's trying to take away your dodge skill JSUT FOR THE LOVE OF GJGDOSKjgiuhskj gbnskj jdgkJ BUY A GUN YOU IDIOT

Yeah if you want to stick with the same basic thing get Muscle Replacement or Toner 2, Pistols 1 with Semi-auto Specialization, and some assorted smartlink pistols. You'll be rolling 10 dice to shoot. You can pay for it by dropping unarmed 3 points and specializing in Shock Gloves. Congrats, your shock glove attack just got +1 die while also becoming pretty good at shooting and also +2 dice to all Agility stuff!

Piell fucked around with this message at 21:53 on May 1, 2012

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
Ok, this is a result of a thought experiment based on 2 rules. First, every stat except edge is set to 3 to start. Second, only 1 point in a skill is allowed. Based on these rules, what is the most broadly competent character I can make? The result is CAPTAIN COMPETENT! Nobody knows where he came from (including himself), but he's here to back up anyone in anything.

pre:
Captain Competent
Metatype: Human
Body		3 (4)
Agility		3 (6)
Reaction	3 (8)
Strength	3 (6)
Charisma	3
Intuition	3
Logic		3 (5)
Willpower	3
Edge		7
Essence Remaining: 0.800

Qualities
Born Rich
Black Market Pipeline: Wares
Restricted Gear
Addiction, Mild - Betel
Amnesia
Thrill Seeker

Ware
Tailored Pheromones 3
Wired Reflexes 2	
Muscle Augmentation 2
Muscle Toner 2
Suprathyroid Gland	
Synthacardium 2
Mnemonic Enhancer 2
Cerebral Booster 2
Reaction Enhancer 2
Enhanced Articulation	

Knowledge Skills
English 1
Japanese 1
Sioux 1
Or'zet 1
Sperethiel 1
Spanish	 1
Corp (Security Companies) 1
Criminal (Seattle Gangs) 1
Hangouts (Safehouses) 1
Navigation (Smuggling) 1
Politics (Corporate) 1
Politics (Underworld) 1
Procedure (Matrix Security) 1
Procedure (Security) 1
Regional (Seattle) 1
Club Music 1
Celebrity Gossip 1
Fine Cuisine 1
Gambling 1

Active Skills
Athletics (Group)		1
Close Combat (Group)		1
Cracking (Group)		1
Electronics (Group)		1
Firearms (Group)		1
Influence (Group)		1
Stealth (Group)			1
Pilot Ground Craft		1
Perception			1
Biotech (Group)			1
Armorer				1
Demolitions			1
Heavy Weapons			1
Pilot Aircraft			1

Gear
Novatech Airware with Iris Orb
R3 (Armor, Attack, Biofeedback Filter, Black Hammer, Blackout, Corrupt, Databomb)
R3 (Decrypt, Defuse, Disarm, Exploit, Medic, Nuke, Sniffer, Spoof, Stealth, Track)
R3 (Analyze, Browse, Command, Edit, Encrypt, Purge, Scan)
Hardliner Gloves							
Combat Axe							
Cougar Fine Longblade							
AZ-150 Stun Baton							
Defiance EX Shocker
Morrissey Elan
Yamaha Sakura Fubuki
Ruger Super Warhawk
Ares Crusader
Ingram Smartgun X
Colt M22A3
Armtech MGL-6
Enfield AS-7
Ingram White Knight
Ares Desert Strike
237 Regular Rounds (Enough for 1 clip for every gun)
6 Mini Frag Grenades
20 Taser Darts
Armored Vest
Actioneer Business Clothes
Chameleon Suit
Form-Fitting Body Armor, Half Body Suit
A couple thousand nuyen left (my chargen program ran out of space for guns)

3/3 Fixer Contact

Piell fucked around with this message at 01:01 on May 8, 2012

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Overemotional Robot posted:

So, I'm looking to put together a group and run a few games of this. What are the books I would need to get? I guess I'm asking what you guys have found most useful when you started playing? I just ordered the core rulebook but I can get at least two other books. It's just that there's so many and I have no experience with Shadowrun.

Get Arsenal for sure, since it's got stuff for every character. Then get either Street Magic (if you want magic stuff), Augmentation (if you want more ware), or Unwired (for Matrix stuff). I assume by the core book you mean the 20th anniversary book, fyi

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

homerlaw posted:

Is there any viability to creating an adept/'wared-out shotgun user, I thought I heard something here saying that it was a futile effort.

FYI even for an adept 1 point of ware is almost always worth it. Stuff like Muscle Toner or Synthacardium or Tailored Pheremones gives you huge bonuses for cheaper than you can get as easily anywhere else.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Bigass Moth posted:

Cybereyes and ears are the biggest no brainer every-person-in-UCAS should have items. Perfect vision and hearing for very low cost, plus useful accessories at also low costs (and no futher essence hit)? Why the hell not?

Cybereyes and ears are the stupidest possible things to get. You can get contacts/glasses/goggles and earbuds that do the exact same thing for cheaper and without using essence.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Poil posted:

Here's my terrible ork adept drake kickboxer runner.

Not gonna go into any detail on the sheet, but the main thing that jumps out at me is all you can do is hit people. What are you going to do in between combats?

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Razin posted:

So I'm a complete newbie to Shadow, and I'm trying to make a hacking character for a game my friend is running. I haven't started picking out gear yet, but I was hoping someone could look at what I have so far and tell me if I'm making any dumb mistakes. I think I could use some pointers on my stats and skills in particular.

Also, more generally, is some sort of hacker/rigger hybrid a good combo? It seems like the two roles would synergize pretty well, but I don't really know. I was basically hoping to make a hacker who uses drones to fill out some of his weak areas as far as sneaking into places, doing surveillance, and fighting especially. Our gaming group is almost totally new to Shadowrun and played mostly DnD before this, so I'm expecting that we'll probably end up bumbling into situations where having some combat drones to watch my back would be handy (or at least fun).

Hacker/Rigger is a combo that falls together pretty well. The character you've posted is pretty decent, though I'd break up the Cracking skill group so that I can get 6 Hacking to start. Also, you need Vehicle skills - Pilot Groundcraft and Aircraft at the least. You also need Gunnery to shoot enemies while in drones.

Also, you'll want ware - Cerebral Booster, Muscle Toner, Encephalon, PuSHeD, Wired Reflexes, Hot-Sim Module, Simsense Booster, and Control Rig is a setup that will serve you well.

Piell fucked around with this message at 01:31 on May 8, 2012

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Pancakes by Mail posted:

Adept Powers (4):
Attribute Boost (Agility) 2 (.5)
Improved Ability (Pistols) 2 (1)
Improved Reflexes 2 (2.5) Included in table above.

Drop Improved Ability. In return, pick up Muscle Toner 2 and whatever other miscellaneous ware you want to fill up to 1 point of essence (Synthacardium, maybe, which means you can lower your Athletics skill and still keep the same bonus). You can then plow the extra points back into magic and pick up Improved Ability again. Attribute Boost isn't worth it IMO. You'll probably want to start out with 6 in Pistols skill as well. Also drop dodge, it's really worthless since you have gymnastics - you could pick up Unarmed instead if you wanted a melee blocking skill, and then you could get shock frills on your armor or shock gloves.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Pancakes by Mail posted:

I need a little clarification here. If I bump Magic to negate the warez effect, that's 10 BP. Why not just spend 10 BP and get another point of Magic instead? Am I getting more mileage out of the 1 essence of warez than I would out of 1 point of adept spells?

I do agree that Attribute Boost isn't too great though, so I'm ditching that.

Yes, one point of ware can give you way more bonuses than anywhere else. Consider Muscle Toner 2 - it's worth just over 3 BP in nuyen and a loss of 10 points to make up the magic loss from essence, for a total of 13. (Actually less, since you can fit in other ware as well). In exchange, you get +2 agility. To get that through buying the stat directly, it would cost 20 BP. To get it through Adept powers, that's 1.5 points (effectively 1.5 Magic, or 15 BP).

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

robziel posted:

I have recently agreed to join an online Shadowrun game, I've not played since the 90's so I'm basically relearning everything. For my character I'm just going with a modified version of the gunslinger adept that's given in the book (hopefully that wasn't a bad idea) and while going through the book there's something I haven't quite figured out.

How do I activate my powers, what sort of action is it? Is activating them considered a complex action like casting a spell?

The powers that don't have listed activation times in the description are always on. That said, the sample characters in the book are either terrible, aren't correctly priced, or both.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Davin Valkri posted:

Deis "Pinkhair" Yoma
The problem with this character is that, unfortunately, the cyberparts rules are actually really bad unless you do a specific trick with them (getting a tricked out agility cyberarm just for shooting purposes, for example). If you really want to stick with them, you need to get customized cyberlimbs with better stats.

If you're willing to change the backstory, you can get much more effective. Drop the cyberparts entirely and get a Supathyroid Gland (you need restricted gear for this but it's worth it) and Muscle Toner 2/Muscle Augmentation 2. Also, you need at least one extra initiative pass if you ever want to be more than worthless in a combat. Wired Reflexes is the old standby, or Synaptic Booster if you want to spend more money but have more essence. If you want to go cheaper, I suggest a drug habit - Cram or Jazz are what you want there. For other useful ware, look at Encaphalon and/or PuSHeD to increase your hacking ability, or cerebral booster to improve logic for hardware/software/misc. logic purposes (since logic has no effect on hacking). For face stuff, you'll want one or more of Enhanced Pheremone Receptors, Vocal Range Enhancer, and Tailored Pheremones.

As far as actual rules issues, program effectiveness is limited by the system/response for your commlink/OS, so you'll want to customize those to 5 or 6. In addition, you'll want your hacking programs (stealth/spoof/exploit at the minimum) to be as high as you can get. There's no real point to the sword unless it's really a part of your character - you will do crap damage thanks to your low strength, assuming you even hit with it. 6 dice is not enough for a melee effective character. If you really want a melee weapon, you'd be better served by a stun baton, since it doesn't rely on strength for damage (compare 4 Physical/-1 AP for your katan vs 7 electrical (meaning a chance to knock them out)/half AP) . Similar for shooting - 4 dice might as well not exist for anything other than shooting someone in the back who can't see you. 2 body and 3 reaction just compounds the problem. You don't have to be capable in combat, but as it is you've spent just enough points to think you might be able to handle combat and get yourself killed. Either get your skills up to a decent level, or plan on staying out of combat entirely (which for a hacker is often doable, since you can usually do your stuff from inside the group's van). Thanks to how medkits work (the rating substitutes for the skill if you don't have First Aid, and a rating 6 medkit is quite cheap) you can probably drop that as well.

Piell fucked around with this message at 14:27 on May 14, 2012

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Swags posted:

This is actually kind of cool because I'm about to make a technomancer face and I want to add a bunch of ware. However, I don't want to spend more than one Essence worth. Aside from pheromones and a sim sense booster, which ware works best for a faceomancer?

For one essence worth for a faceomancer, I'd do Muscle Toner 2, Enhanced Pheremone Receptors 3, Cerebral Booster 2, and PuSHeD. If you plan on avoiding combat entirely, you could drop the Muscle Toner and get a Vocal Range Enhancer, Tailored Pheremones 1, and some 0.1 bioware or 0.2 cyberware. In either case, you'll want to pick up a drug habit for more IP. Cram lasts all day but knocks you out at the end of it (or at least, a good amount of stun damage), while Jazz is more short term but only has a small penalty for 10 minutes after it wears off.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

pw pw pw posted:

Does overuse of drugs not lower your essence anymore?

It does, but only at the burnout stage. As long as you can stay away from that far, you're fine.

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Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Swags posted:

So, I was making the technomancer face I mentioned above, and here's what I've got so far. I'm getting pretty low on points, so I was going to come here and ask for a bit of help.

I've never actually bothered to learn how technomancers work, so I can't say anything on that end. On the other hand, there are a couple things I noticed.

First, you have a strength dumpstat. That's fine, except for the part where it is 1. Dumpstats of 1 are bad, because that means you're going to automatically fail any skill linked to that stat unless you put points in it (or you spend edge). That means your character is not going to ever be able to climb or swim, at all, even the slightest bit. You are a console RPG character that could drown in a puddle and are blocked by knee high walls.

Secondly, you will die in combat. You have comparable stats to a rating 0 totally untrained wageslave. You're going to have to be very careful to never ever get in any physical conflict of any sort because you will lose every time with 2 reaction, 3 body, and only 1 IP.

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