Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Audiophiles generally hate blind a/b tests. The general argument is that differences which are at first hard to notice become apparent only with use over a long period of time.

proudfoot fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Aug 27, 2009

# ¿ Aug 26, 2009 22:33

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 05:54

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Gromit posted:

I think we'd need you to define "sounds worlds better" before we can argue this. A $300 setup is not going to be a static-ridden low volume adventure ride through a sawmill, and a $30k setup is not going to make me think angels have sprayed hot loads of musical ejaculate into my brain.

It really depends, certain things actually can have a noticeable effect on audio quality, or at the very least allow you to increase the volume. Room treatment to isolate noise is probably one of the few expensive things that actually do make a noticeable improvement.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2009 06:14

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Omegaslast posted:

Some people think room treatments can do more for sound than simply upgrading speakers (i dont really but some do). However i do subscribe to the belief that room treatments are the biggest change in sound right after a better loud speaker. I think amps just need to be "adequate", and dont really change the sound, cd players and dac do almost nothing, especially for the high prices. So basically if you want to get more out of your speakers dont look at upgrading the gear, you should look at sound treatments, as they will get you closer to how the speaker is actually supposed to sound.

This is basically what I meant, after around the 5k mark, you can't really do anything but room treatment. Any gains in upgrading your speakers/dacs/etc will be minimal, and "esoteric" stuff like cables is utterly pointless.

Room treatment, however, does make a noticeable improvement.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2009 11:07

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

qirex posted:

what's with the dip at 80Hz?

If it's there at both the corrected and uncorrected points, its probably a speaker defect.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2009 20:42

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

CEO of Ayre Electronics and his 10,000 dollar Blu-Ray player. (It's based off the $500 Oppo)

Charles Hansen posted:

Well, first of all you have to remember that we don't have to pay $500 for the unit. We buy in quantity, so Oppo gives us the spectacular discounted price of (make sure you are sitting down, please!) $400.

Then to make it an Ayre, we dismantle it completely and recycle everything except the main PCB (with the video decoder, ABT scaler chip, and HDMI transmitter), the transport mechanism, the VFD display, and the remote control handset.

Next we re-build the main PCB. The big switching power supply only provides 5 VDC, then there are little mini-switching power supplies (called DC-DC converters) on the main PCB that turn the 5 VDC into 1.0 VDC, 1.1 VDC, 1.8 VDC, and 3.3 VDC. All of those are removed. There are also USB power switches that allow hot-plugging of USB devices. These are removed as they have another kind of DC-DC converter called a "charge pump".

All of the supplies are replaced with pure linear supplies with analog regulators. The USB power switches are replaced with devices without the charge pumps. Now we have gotten rid of seven noise sources that create high-frequency square waves with harmonics well out into the MHz region. Getting rid of all of that noise creates a visibly cleaner picture.

Next, we replace the low-quality master video clock with a VCXO. This becomes more important later on, as you will see.

Now we start adding things back in. First is our AyreLink communication system. It allows AyreLink equipped components to act as one big system. For example, turning on the player will turn on all of the downstream components as well as automatically select the correct input on the preamp. We also make an external RS-232 to AyreLink converter box for system controllers like Crestrons. The AyreLink system has opto-isolators between each component to avoid unwanted ground loops, which is why we don't use RS-232 inputs on any of our equipment.

Then we add a custom programmed FPGA on the front panel PCB to do some housekeeping. It intercepts the appropriate commands and translates them to operate the AyreLink system. It disables the internal volume control (which operates in the digital domain and degrades the sound) and instead routes the volume changes to an AyreLink equipped preamp. It also allows us to send custom messages to the front panel VFD display. So when the USB audio input is activated, it will report that on the front panel along with the sample rate of the received signal.

There are a bunch of boards added on the audio side. I say "side" because we literally split the player into two parts. There is a separate power transformer that runs all of the audio circuitry, which is separated from the video side by a bank of opto-isolators. So the audio and video "sides" have separate grounds that are completely galvanically isolated. This is the only way to get the best performance from either your audio system or your video system.

All video displays have switching power supplies that dump noise into your system in the absence of such isolation. There are also ground loops that are inevitably formed as there is no such thing as a balanced video connection. All of those problems go away with our isolation system.

The ten-channel audio board is replaced by a two-channel audio board. Everything on this board is top-quality, with discrete, fully balanced, zero-feedback audio circuitry and discrete, zero-feedback power supply regulators. There are improvements in both the parts quality and circuit design that give it even higher performance than the QB-9 USB DAC that was recently rated "Class A+" in Stereophile's recommended components issue. For two-channel disc playback (CD, SACD, DVD-Audio), the performance exceeds our $6,000 audio-only disc player.

We also add the USB audio input that allows you to connect your personal computer and turn your system into a music server. Your entire digital library (except SACD's, thank you very much Sony -- not!) can be stored on a hard drive and played back with the click of a mouse. So this one component can be the only source component that you need. This input is also connected via a bank of opto-isolators, so there is actually a *third* "side" to the system -- the video, the audio, and the computer. The noise from your computer and its switching power supply will not be connected to either your video or audio systems.

We also add a second audio-only HDMI connector. This is fed by the isolated signals on the audio "side" so that it won't contaminate your surround-sound system if you choose to connect one. It also supports the new "Audio Rate Control" (ARC) feature that is part of the HDMI 1.3a specifcation. This is a breakthrough for the surround-sound enthusiast, as HDMI is normally the worst way in the world to send audio data -- the jitter is even worse than the lowly S/PDIF connection.

But with ARC, the surround-sound processor uses a local crystal oscillator to provide a low-jitter clock to the DAC chips. Then there is a buffer that stores the incoming audio data. When the buffer is too full it sends a signal back upstream to the Blu-Ray player telling it to slow down the disc slightly. When the buffer is too empty, it asks the disc to speed up slightly. Now the audio clock is in charge, the way that it should be. (When the unit is running in two-channel mode, the local low-jitter, fixed-frequency crystal oscillator provides the master audio clock.)

With a modern digital display (plasma, LCD, LCOS, DLP, et cetera) jitter on the video signal does not matter. Since there is no conversion to analog, the digital signal values are simply stored in a frame buffer until needed.

Then the whole thing is put into a custom chassis made entirely from anodized aluminum and stainless steel. We want our products to look just as good 50 years from now as they do today. There are other people making Oppo "clones". One of them only replaces the chassis. Another replaces the power supply also. Nobody is rebuilding the complete player and adding the extra features and advanced technology that Ayre is.

As far as the value, it is up to you to determine that. I can't tell you how much an improved picture is worth. I can't tell you how much better sound is worth. I can't tell you how much the features we add are worth. You will have to decide that for yourself.

What I can tell you is that, just like all of our other products, they offer engineering and performance beyond what anyone else is offering, at a fair price that reflects our cost of manufacturing, and that we back up our products with both a strong network of the finest dealers on the planet and an incredible service policy.

Unlike other manufacturers that try to sell you a "new and improved" product every year or two, when we figure out a way to genuinely improve the performance of our existing products, we offer upgrades to current owners at very reasonable prices. Go to the Audio Asylum and check out some comments regarding our recent "MP" upgrades to the C-5xe and CX-7e disc players, for example.

If you want a great Blu-Ray player for an incredible price, buy the Oppo. If you want the best picture and sound quality in the world for your home theater and price is not a concern, check out the Ayre. And no, it will not be available in November, sorry. Early next year will be a better guess.

Source: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1181755

I have absolutely no idea how an "improved power supply" and other analog mods will improve 1080p that is being bit-streamed to a display, or improve upscaled DVDs. Do his improvements make bits flip or something?

proudfoot fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Nov 4, 2009

# ¿ Nov 4, 2009 18:36

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Still, unlike the other two cloners, Ayre seems to do something. He even admits he buys Oppo's and modifies them.

quote:

The official Lexicon BD30 post:

Short Answer...Built in America...THX certified...Lexicon Quality and Support...Best Video...Fastest transport...Joe Kane likes it...first shipment expected in late October or early November.
What we bring to the table:

� Best video quality available using Anchor Bay�s technology

� Best player response times � Drawer responds <2seconds. For most blu-ray discs (regardless of profile) we can go from OFF to playing the main menu in about 10 seconds.

� Universal media formats � the only other model that has SACD is the $4,500 Denon model.

� Combine with the 7.1 MC-12 firmware update � for a superior sounding Dolby TrueHD & DTS Master Audio solution.

FAQ:

� �What are the differences to the OPPO?�

o When we specified the BD-30 we focused on premium video & audio performance, fast response times, and a mechanical construction that upholds the lexicon tradition of excellence � Some parts are similar to the OPPO due to the fact we purchase subassemblies from the same contract manufacturer. We then ship this subassembly to Indiana and complete the manufacturing in the States. We load in application specific firmware

� �why does the Lexicon cost more?�

o The BD-30 is the highest performance blu-ray player available today and when you see the unit, you�ll realize that the product not only is the highest performance player, but is build to the highest standards in the USA. It is then shipped with Joe Kane�s setup disc and supported with world class customer support.

Source: http://www.smr-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=323

Lexicon is the company which Hansen mentions as "only replaces the chassis". They charge $3.5k for the BD-30. And by "some parts are similar to the OPPO due to the fact we purchase subassemblies from the same contract manufacturer." the Lexicon rep means every single part with the exception of the chassis.

They look suspiciously similar:

Oppo:

Lexicon:

Oppo:

Lexicon:

The other cloner is Theta Digital, who have changed the power supply, and charge merely 3k. A steal compared to the other two players.

I'm kind of sad to see AVSForum fall to prey like the Ayre. I generally considered it a more sane and scientific resource than the various audio boards. They do call out Theta and Lexicon for cloning though.

proudfoot fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Nov 4, 2009

# ¿ Nov 4, 2009 19:29

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Yes but when you're dealing with analog, you can claim any small thing makes a change, and be correct - though that change might be nothing noticeable or useful. When you start saying that modifying the power supply improves a digital transport, you venture into the territory of complete bullshit.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2009 02:58

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

TheMadMilkman posted:

Did anybody ever bother to purchase one of each and tear them apart? Levinson stated that the casing was the same but that the circuitry was different. I can't find a single link of anybody actually attempting to figure out if this really was the case.

Not to say that their gear isn't overpriced. Mark Levinson isn't known for being cheap.

Are you willing to take a 5k device apart and void its warranty? I don't think Mark Levinson sells more than a hundred of those, at any rate.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2009 06:26

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

qirex posted:

I think the problem is that audiophiles expect digital audio to be as fiddly as analog and the people who sell them gear are happy to promote that idea. I know I've seen serious discussion about what brand of CD-R sounds better.

Add that to the fact that audio quality is highly subjective, and you have the perfect recipe for snake oil salesmen.

It's just funny when said salesmen try to do the same to digital video.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2009 11:20

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Spoondrift posted:

I'm satisfied with this explanation (I suspect that the details surpass my knowledge of electronics). Thanks.

No worries - at least you're willing to listen. People with knowledge in electrical engineering tend to bang our heads against the walls when we visit an audiophile forum.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2009 09:39

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Talking about Coaxial/Optical cables for transporting digital audio.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72096

kama posted:

It depends on the make, the difference can be subtle or drastic on coax.
For optical, all plastic type were universally awfuel. Silica bundled connector (still plastic ) one better but not by much. Several glass toslinks sounded remarkably similar no matter what make so far.

For the USB, the length matter, too. ( shorter the better )

# ¿ Dec 3, 2009 05:40

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Noise Harvester!

Takes the noise out of your power, and blinks.

quote:

Here�s the dirty little secret none of our competitors want you to know. ALL power line filters - regardless of design � do not actually eliminate noise from the power line. Instead, they only shift the noise around from one place to another! So noise that comes in the hot side of the line may be sent over to the neutral or ground side. But it most certainly is NOT removed or reduced. Even so, there is nearly always SOME benefit. Just not all you paid for. Physics 101 Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Unless we choose to ignore it, we only have two choices: It can be rerouted or it can be converted to another form of energy. It cannot be destroyed as some marketing materials might suggest. So let�s assume we definitely want to eliminate the noise, not just hide it somewhere where it can still cause trouble.

Read more: PS Audio Noise harvester Does it Work?? - Home Theater Systems - Electronics and Forum - HomeTheaterShack http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/remotes-cables-accessories-tweaks/596-ps-audio-noise-harvester-does-work.html#ixzz0YepuIgXq

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/noise-harvester?cat=cables-accessories

# ¿ Dec 3, 2009 20:59

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

qirex posted:

Cognitive dissonance and the "Initation effect" combine into an unstoppable cloud of post-hoc justification. "This thing was really expensive, people on the internet say it's great and I don't want to admit I got suckered" can really be enough to change your perception of things.

I'm really confused by all the people who buy these products - what compels them to do so in the first place?

# ¿ Dec 3, 2009 23:39

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

I wonder how many audiophiles have an UPS system, and if anyone makes an audiophile grade UPS system. If not, this could be a pretty good market for making money.

It would be especially interesting to build something along the lines of a "audiophile grade flywheel UPS" - a giant flywheel with a motor + generator combo for stabilizing power, you could probably make quite a bit of power off that,

proudfoot fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Dec 4, 2009

# ¿ Dec 4, 2009 01:17

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Have we ever decided what the term "soundstage" means?

# ¿ Dec 6, 2009 12:05

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Princess posted:

Improving my dynamic response from a digital signal? Does it crank all my 0's and 1's to -3's and 6's?

Audiophile grade 0's and 1's.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2009 18:32

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

MrBling posted:

Doubt they're too angry. I'm pretty sure they can still convince audiophiles that HDMI doesn't accurately transport sound and that they need to use toslink instead. Then again, can you goldplate a toslink connector? Goldplating seems to be very important to these people.

Meridian actually claims that mixing Audio and Video in the same cable is bad - even in a digital bit-streaming mode. Of course, they also sell a product to remedy this situation.

http://www.meridian-audio.com/product-model/accessories/hd621-hdmi-audio-processor.aspx

quote:

Many components today supply both audio and video via the same HDMI cable, which compromises quality. The HD621 separates the HDMI signal from up to six sources into its audio and video elements, maximising the audio quality and delivering it to your Meridian system free of video pollution, while the video content is fed direct to the display via a single cable, eliminating additional switching.

It splits a 5.1 system into 3 different SPDIF outputs, all of which should be used with only the highest grade Meridian cables.

Lets ignore the fact that audio and video had to travel in the same cable before reaching the splitter.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2009 02:27

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Someone's paying that reviewer something. Or feeding him drugs.

But as for players using older DAC chips - some people find the crappy distortion pleasing. On AV forums I frequent, someone wrote that his 1989 Tube CD player was better than his new SACD player. He felt that SACD felt too "detailed and bright", and much preferred the "smoothness" of regular CD or vinyl.

Other people lambasted him for being an idiot, and that higher resolution was the point of SACD. But like many people, he seemed to prefer a somewhat distorted output.

proudfoot fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Dec 11, 2009

# ¿ Dec 11, 2009 04:52

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Pibborando San posted:

I don't buy this at all. Ask her if she can't stand live, un-amped performances because even the the master tape of an symphony played on the most expensive speakers in the world wouldn't convey as much audio information as the real thing.

Remember that her memory of a live performance probably involved a very powerful, and very old tube amplifier that added its own tube distortion.

A symphony is a different matter - but quite a few people don't listen to symphonies. For many of our parents, the concert they attended in the 1970s had an amplifier which produced quite a bit of distortion.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2009 01:08

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

I find talking with audiophiles supremely frustrating. If you attack a salesmans claims, they'll retort with "YOU HAVEN'T HEARD IT!, HOW CAN YOU KNOW ITS NOT TRUE"? And the salesman will have invariably heard it, and invariably be able to describe such a product as more "musically pleasing/wider soundstage/more dynamic/less fatiguing".

I wonder why they form such a weird defense mechanism, it's like this type of people exist to be scammed.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2009 19:44

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

blugu64 posted:

Ask them how to quantify 'more musically pleasing'.

Well, its more, you know, musical. I mean, look, my ears are more sensitive then that
200k o-scope. What? Can you talk louder? I'm getting a little deaf these days.

But you have to hear this (mod that cannot be returned) to believe it!

# ¿ Dec 15, 2009 20:43

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Elentor posted:

The servers now benefit from an anti-magnetic field that will definitely enhance the CPU processing for a more fluid posting experience, and reduce jitter. With the sub-aural influences on the server cables, we should also expect our posts to be processed much faster!

Edit: So is anyone interested in making an audio review website? I have some good ideas and from the looks of it it seems we can get a lot of stuff to test. Will be fun to test in real life all these amazing technologies that can truly enhance your enjoyment of mu$ic.

I'm setting up a website for just this, and to debunk lovely audiophile things. I'm an undergrad studying electrical engineering, and I have access to all sorts of fancy gear that I can guarantee are far superior to human hearing.

PM me if you'd like to help.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2009 02:24

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Agreed posted:

I posted on Head-Fi under the username "NotJeffBuckley" and was uninvited from the "No Blind Test!" discussion forum after repeated violations of their suspension of disbelief. They will absolutely say that their hearing can detect things that an oscilloscope can't. You will never reach these people. You should channel that effort instead into ripping them off with a lot of stupid bullshit products that net you about 10,000% profit on the materials that go into them and offer nothing but the finest placebo effect to the retarded but wealthy end user.

One of these routes requires alot more time, and substantially more work. Also, the audiophile grade bullshit market is pretty tapped out at the moment,

# ¿ Dec 21, 2009 06:31

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

ninepints posted:

This is brilliant, but you need a friend selling audiophile grade RAM in case people try to throw more expensive hardware at the problem instead of buying the program.

Goddamn, this is an amazing idea. Audiophile grade ram modules. You could probably sell at least a few.

Unfortunately, I don't think most audiophiles use the computer for listening to music, and for those that are competent enough to setup an HTPC, they won't buy such things.

You're best off making discrete components, even if they are useless devices such as "Noise Harvesters".

# ¿ Dec 21, 2009 22:01

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

I got a better idea; if audiophiles are so concerned about cable quality, why not sell them superconducting interconnects? They have a sheath around them which is filled a cryogenic coolant. And when the sheath invariably leaks, they die.

Whats the markup you can make on one of these?

# ¿ Dec 26, 2009 21:40

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Someone calls out Charles Hansen on his hilariously expensive rebadge of the Oppo BDP-83. He responds!

Charles Hansen posted:

Anybody that quotes Jimi in his signature line gets bonus points from me. But there is no need to take anything to private messages. If you feel that there is something that would be beneficial to share with the other readers of this thread, by all means, fire away!

But if all you want to do is argue that "bits are bits" and that the Ayre cannot produce a better picture quality than the Oppo, please refrain until you have had direct experience. It's one thing to say, "I compared the Ayre to the Oppo with XYZ display and ABC discs and saw no differences." It's another thing entirely (and in my experience, totally useless) to say, "The Ayre delivers the same data to the display as the Oppo, so therefore there cannot be any difference in the picture quality."

The former has value. The latter does not.

"You have to see it or you won't know the difference mannnnnn".

(And if you do, you're going to see a difference thanks to rationalizing your 10k Blu-Ray player purchase)

# ¿ Dec 30, 2009 21:48

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

The really sad thing, is that even the reasonable/sane forums(AVSForum) are setup so people can't really jump in a thread and call bullshit on a manafacturer.

I saw qirex posting in the Blu-Ray player forums as well, and I so desperately want to jump in and call bullshit on the Ayre thread. But if I go in alone and get banned, its not worth the effort.

Qirex, If you do, I'll jump in too.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1181755

This thread is just a few pages of finely worded bullshit.

proudfoot fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jan 1, 2010

# ¿ Jan 1, 2010 22:04

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

qirex posted:

You can't call a spade a spade on AVS without getting called a troll, It's perfectly fine to say "I don't believe any of this makes a difference" but their mods are really trigger happy. Plus I don't know if it's sock puppeting or what but it seems like every guy who works for a company on there has a bunch of dudes riding his nuts ready to white knight for him.

Theres a pretty big difference between being a fanboy of a product, and defending it, compared to the absolute utter bullshit spewed out by a company CEO.

# ¿ Jan 1, 2010 23:22

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Lexicon BD-30 - not only a rebadged Oppo, it's actually one inside another aluminum shell!

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/...xicon-outside-1

quote:

Possibly the funniest shot was the one we took of the bottom of the Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray player. Here you can see that they literally cut out the aluminum bottom to make space for the vent holes of the Oppo's chassis. If you didn't "get" that Lexicon actually put a full Oppo BDP-83 INSIDE of a chassis, slapped a label on it and is shipping it for $3000 more, this photo should help. Of course, they did add a Lexicon splash screen to the menu system (which, by the way, is identical to the Oppo except that some items are reordered) and a billet aluminum faceplate is certainly nice.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2010 08:53

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Mister Kingdom posted:

I'll bet there are some people who bought it who will swear it's better than the Oppo.

Ding!

Heres another review swearing that the Lexicon is better than the Oppo, published slightly before the audioholics one.

http://hometheaterreview.com/lexicon-bd-30-universal-blu-ray-player-reviewed/

quote:

I am sure people will attack this player as a "rebadged" Oppo, so I went out and bought an Oppo BD-83 SE in order to fairly compare the two. First off, there is no comparison between the build quality of the two players. The Oppo is lighter and the buttons have a far less solid feel to them. The Lexicon is a taller, much heftier unit. Black levels were close, but the Lexicon had a more natural contrast and color palette than the Oppo. More importantly, the Lexicon was nearly totally silent when loading discs and changing tracks. Those familiar with the Oppo know it is a rather noisy player when loading discs, switching tracks and scanning, even sometimes for no apparent reason. The drive is in the Oppo is noisy enough to catch my attention during quiet passages in movies, while the Lexicon is inaudible during use at all times.

Differences! It's heavier, so it's got to be better, its bigger too. (Maybe because its an Oppo stuck inside a case?)

Oh also, the colors are more natural, uhh, black levels are the same, since we can verify that with a test pattern, but colors are kind of hard to verify.

Also, from a few months ago.

quote:

I love all of you guys who see that the Lexicon is using the Oppo chassis and electronics layout and automatically assume that it's a rip off with a shiny front at loads more money.... and yet wait..... have any of you been able to do a direct comparison between the two, do you know what's been changed inside, have you even actually seen a Lexicon working?!

If the Lexicon offers just a small picture upgrade on the Oppo, plus better audio replay (the Oppos CD replay is abysmal - and no I don't mean for people who think that Denon make great CD players!) then owners of Lexicon gear will be more than happy to buy and the likelihood will be that they'll be more than pleased with it.

Don't assume that just because something seems dear to you and doesn't offer much of an upgrade over a similar product, that the 20% increase you get for the extra money isn't appealing to someone who can afford it.

Also, don't moan about what bad value something is until you've actually seen it working against the thing it's based on.

If you want the car analogy, look a Mercedes and then look at a Maybach. Same car, way way more expensive. Still it's a better car and people buy it.

proudfoot fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Jan 17, 2010

# ¿ Jan 16, 2010 20:54

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

TheMadMilkman posted:

I found this gem while searching for reviews of the new Wilson Audio Sasha:

That's right. 300 hours to break in an audio rack. A $17,000 audio rack. That he considers to be a more significant change in sound than switching brands of speakers.

I have no problem defending a lot of the things in the audiophile world, but this one is beyond me.

Also, CES just finished up. Check out http://spintricity.com/64/6490/jan-2010/ces-2010---day-1-forth-floor-flamingo and the following pages for some pretty good photos of the audio rooms.

How the hell would anyone justify a break-in period required for a rack? Can I sell special audiophile grade carpeting that requires a break-in as well?

# ¿ Jan 18, 2010 22:03

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

fahrvergnugen posted:

This is genius. You could make a mint selling audiophile rugs. "Minimize reflections and electromagnetic interference with our patented sonicshag™ technology. Each synthetic-blend fiber of our rugs is woven into a rubberized mat which provides cleaner, punchier bass. The copper threads used in the construction of the mat, meanwhile, absorb and diffuse electromagnetic interference. Placing your stereo system on the SonicShag™ will create a more realistic soundstage, with cleaner bass and a richer, more naturally colored experience."

Discrete, cost effective room treatments! Dampens noise and eliminates dead zones with our proprietary MonoSound isolation treatment. Wife approved, made from 100% Tibetan Llama wool.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2010 12:07

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 05:54

proudfoot: Jul 17, 2006; Yak! Look! a Yak!

Theres apparently an entire forum dedicated to ridiculing audiophiles: http://stereocentral.tv/phpbb/

# ¿ Mar 9, 2010 11:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Ridicule Audiophiles - Find the cat shit's resonant frequency