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Vilerat posted:It was explained to me like this: Met a guy yesterday that took the Orals 3 times before getting in. So if you don't succeed at first, keep trying. Now to see if my Post will have the FSOT when I'm out there.
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Aug 5, 2009 12:12
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TCD posted:I've been meeting some recent A100 graduates... All their resumes are pretty impressive. I think it's important to point out to people interested in the foreign service not to get too hung up with these people having impressive resumes. Let's not get confused with cause and effect here. The people in A100 and FSO's did not get into the foreign service because they have impressive resumes. Rather the type of person who gets into the FS tends to be the type of person who can build an impressive resume. We have a remarkably meritocratic system for selecting our countries diplomats that is a world apart from how many other countries do so.
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Aug 5, 2009 13:11
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TCD posted:I've been meeting some recent A100 graduates... All their resumes are pretty impressive. Can you give us a quick rundown of their resumes?
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Aug 5, 2009 13:46
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Omits-Bagels posted:Can you give us a quick rundown of their resumes? All resumes count for is getting past the QEP. With the extremely limited space given in the web application to describe previous jobs it can't be that important to the process.
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Aug 5, 2009 15:40
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As happydayz pointed out, its not a resume perse but just a motivated person who could do well during the process. Several people had previous embassy experience, one was a graduate of an ivy league foreign affairs school(with some Middle East experience), etc. Some former peace corp or other similar type experiences.
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Aug 5, 2009 18:12
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I'm an undergrad majoring in Policy Analysis at Indiana University's School of Public and Environmental Affairs, and I'm planning on getting an MPA after I graduate. How hard is it to get into the Foreign Service without having any professional experience beyond internships and terrible retail jobs? Should I just plan on working for a few years after grad school before I even have a chance? Also, this might be a stupid question, but how long is Arabic going to be useful? I know it is a super critical language right now, but do you think it will be in 5 years? How about 10 years? I also have a few questions about getting the security clearance, but I would rather talk about that over PMs. If anyone wants to answer them, let me know. Thanks.
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Aug 5, 2009 21:14
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camoseven posted:I'm an undergrad majoring in Policy Analysis at Indiana University's School of Public and Environmental Affairs, and I'm planning on getting an MPA after I graduate. How hard is it to get into the Foreign Service without having any professional experience beyond internships and terrible retail jobs? Should I just plan on working for a few years after grad school before I even have a chance?
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Aug 5, 2009 21:41
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xanthig posted:All resumes count for is getting past the QEP. With the extremely limited space given in the web application to describe previous jobs it can't be that important to the process. I know background isn't that important, but I still think it is interesting to hear the different backgrounds people come from.
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Aug 6, 2009 00:25
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So resumes are the least important part of the process, and it is possible to get onto the oral assessment straight out of grad school? I'd also like to know about advancement opportunities. I assume that political officers are assigned to more important policy areas as they advance. What about consular officers? Do they literally do visas and American citizen services their whole career?
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Aug 6, 2009 00:41
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camoseven posted:So resumes are the least important part of the process, and it is possible to get onto the oral assessment straight out of grad school? Vile and Ferrets can elaborate more, but the one Consular lady who I talked to who's been in for over 10+ years is leading a consular program domestic. I can tell you that the A100 students I've been meeting have had very diverse backgrounds. Essentially, only one person out of 20+ that I've met has had ivy league education, but all 20 have been very successful AND/OR have done some pretty interesting things on the outside. Age range is all over the place. I did have not met anyone in recent classes who've been HS -> College -> Grad School -> FS Generalist. That's not to say people with that line of experience are making it in right now, it certainly could be the case, and I'm only meeting a handful of people out of the recent A100 classes. But, that's just what I've observed. As to answer Xanthig, no your resume isn't intrinsically valuable to the hiring process as far as I understand. However, your experiences and skills gained accomplishing items on your resume will be what defines you as a person and also as a candidate is what I'm observing. Thus when I say these people had strong and impressive resumes, I'm saying is that these people have had some pretty interesting world experiences, often, international experience, and very smart which is reflected in their resume. But, I'm not HR or at all involved on any boards so I could totally be wrong.
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Aug 6, 2009 03:11
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camoseven posted:I'd also like to know about advancement opportunities. I assume that political officers are assigned to more important policy areas as they advance. What about consular officers? Do they literally do visas and American citizen services their whole career? From here (pdf); each track has a similar description. Here is the scoop for consular officers: FSO Selection Process Guide posted:As a an entry-level officer, you will probably supervise several locally-hired employees as you manage the crucial work of adjudicating visas to determine who may enter the United States. You will assist American citizens in living or visiting overseas who find themselves in emergency situations involving arrests, hospitalization and major accidents, or who have routine U.S. government matters to complete, such as reports of birth, passport issuances and notarial services. You will respond to inquiries from a range of sources including attorneys, congressional offices, business contacts and host government officials. You will also work to combat consular fraud. Your diplomatic skills will be finely honed as you will be the first and, in many cases, the only contact many people have with the U.S. embassy or consulate.
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Aug 6, 2009 14:54
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As someone who recently went through the Foreign Service application process (and without going over NDA), here is some general advice for prepping for the FSOT and FSOA. FSOT: 1.) Sign up for the yahoo group. Go through the files there. Seriously, do this. 2.) There are many 'resource' sites online for the FSOT. Most of them are crap. Just so you know, some of the best prep materials you can have for the general knowledge section are: An AP Econ prep book, An AP Government Prep Book, the FSOT official study guide, Some sort of Geography study aids, Wikipedia. You'll here "Broad but not deep" a lot to describe this section. Keeping up with a regular news magazine like newsweek or the economist is a good idea as well. 3.) For the Bio section, best advice is to be honest and consistent in your answers. Don't waste too much time on the short answers, just fill in something quick and to the point, then move on. Don't feel bad about reusing answers either. 4.) The English expression section is pretty basic stuff for a native English speaker. Read the study guide, maybe use some online English sources on sections you have problems with. 5.) For the 30 minute essay, straight and to the point. 5 paragraphs. You're not expected to write Shakespeare in this time so just address the prompt. Don't cite outside knowledge unless you know what you're doing. QEP: There is a lot of mystery about this section, but the one thing thats for sure is put some effort into those personal narratives. There is a very handy file on the yahoo group about writing effective KSAs. Follow it like its gospel. FSOA: No matter what you may tell yourself beforehand, this thing will be harder than you expect. The yahoo group and the practice exercises are helpful, but are really only useful to get a general idea of what to expect. The real thing will be much more comprehensive, much longer, and much harder. For the group exercise, do concentrate on giving a tight, solid presentation. Make sure to cover all major points and stay objective. During the discussion, speak up but don't try to dominate the floor either. Helping the group reach a consensus is key here. Partial funding options are good for helping to settle disputes and create a stronger overall proposal. The structured interview is pretty much like any other job interview you might expect, with the exception of adding in some extra hypothetical scenarios. Know your own background and resume well, and come up with good answers for anything noteworthy. The Case Management exercise is hard, very hard. Very few people pass it. The case file will be huge, and 90 minutes all too short. Just remember your solution does not necessarily have to be the best one, but FOLLOW THE PROMPT. Also, make sure to use some sort of quantitative analysis. Most of this advice has been repeated many times on the yahoo group, but still merits repeating. Seriously, it's a great resource and is also a great place to meet other people you can talk to about the process and form study groups for the various sections. 
Natural Ice fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Aug 9, 2009 |
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Aug 9, 2009 06:20
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So, are you in a A100 class yet?
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Aug 9, 2009 06:53
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TCD posted:So, are you in a A100 class yet? I didn't pass my OA unfortunately. I passed the GE and SI, but failed the CM pretty badly. It has been pretty demoralizing getting so far and still not making it, but reading through this thread made me remember why I wanted to do this in the first place and is inspiring me to get back on the horse. I just signed up for the FSOT again for this October, Consular cone. I scored pretty well on my test last time, so I'm not anticipating any problems, but you can never be too careful with this and I'll probably start hitting the books again.
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Aug 9, 2009 08:22
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Natural Ice posted:I didn't pass my OA unfortunately. I passed the GE and SI, but failed the CM pretty badly. Just keep at it. You get better with every try. I've taken the orals twice and did noticeably better having the experience under my belt. Definitely agree with the case management portion. I can sail through the structured interview no problem. Group exercise isn't that bad but unfortunately some of it is outside of your control depending on who is in your group. The case management though I've bombed every time I've taken it. I'm an incredibly fast reader and my job requires me to go over large amounts of data and synthesize it. However the CM just puts me on my rear end. The second time I took the orals I did it with the plan to just haul rear end through all of the documentation, pull out just enough to make an argument, and get writing. Even then I barely managed to finish in time.
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Aug 10, 2009 14:29
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I dont plan to apply for a few more years, but could i get more information on the public diplomacy track? That and the political one seem the most interesting to me.
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Aug 10, 2009 17:31
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For the OP How does the Foreign Service assignment system work? For generalists (Foreign Service Officers) An FSOs first two tours are directed, which means that, though the officer gives input, the assignments office has the final say of who goes where. The initial two tours each normally last two years. For an FSO's first tour, a "bid list" is distributed during the first day or two of initial training (called A-100 in State parlance). The number of jobs on the list will roughly match the number of officers in the orientation class. Often, some posts will have several jobs open, such as if Chennai, India had two open consular positions. The current practice is to have new FSOs rank every job on the list either "high," "medium" or "low." Officers are also given the opportunity to turn in a "bid narrative," which allows them to explain their bidding strategy and interests. Officers will discuss their choices -- and their rational -- with a career development officer (CDO). At the entry level, the CDOs get together and assign the new officers to positions. They usually try to get everyone one of their "high" bids, but that is not always possible, and the CDOs' first responsibility is to fill vacant positions. At about the fifth week of A-100 (the course was previously seven weeks, but I have heard rumors that it might be shorted by a week or two) there will be a "Flag Day" ceremony, where the whole class receives their assignments (and a small matching national flag, hence the name). Flag Day is also when the new officers find out how much and what kind of training they will receive before departing for post. When bidding for one's second tour, there are more jobs to choose from, but also more constraints on bidding. The governing principle of second-tour bidding is the idea of "equity." Equity is calculated by adding the hardship differential and danger pay (if any) from the first tour, then giving officers with higher levels of equity priority for assignments. So people serving in Pakistan, for example, will have many more jobs to choose from than those in London . But there are other constraints, too. It is HR policy that all entry-level officers (ELOs) perform at least one year of consular work (the norm is more 2-4 years these days). What that means is that an FSO whose first tour is straight management work will only be able to bid on jobs with a consular component for the second tour. Also, ELOs may only receive one "full course" of language training during their first two tours. A full course is up to one year of training, but could mean the full six-month course of Spanish. So, if an ELO gets eight months of Korean in preparation for a first tour in Seoul, unless that officer has other preexisting language proficiency, he or she will only be able to bid on positions without a language requirement for the second tour. Keep in mind that Seoul is a "zero hardship" post, so you can imagine that this officer's choices would be limited. There are also language issues if an officer earned extra points for critical-needs language proficiency during the hiring process. I can address that in a subsequent post. Another factor is timing, which means that, even if you are fluent in French and otherwise qualified, if your first tour ends in April but that Paris job you want begins in October (to allow for six months of French study), you won't have a shot at it. The gap is just too large. Although there are many, many more jobs on the second-tour bid list than there are bidders, the extensive constraints mean that each bidder has only a small group of realistic bids. In mid-level bidding, which is everything after your first two tours and before you get into the Senior Foreign Service around the 20-year mark or so, the core of the process is lobbying for jobs. There is still a bid list (this is how you find out what jobs are available) and you still have a CDO, but getting jobs is all about your reputation and whom you know. There are some rules about bidding in your cone and at your grade, but these are not onerous and are mostly a formality. You basically identify jobs in which you are interested, then put in a formal bid, then do everything in your power to convince the decision maker (usually a director on a country desk or in a functional bureau) that you are the best fit for the job. You will also ask colleagues and supervisors to put in a good word for you with the decision maker. If the job is popular, lots of other people will be doing the same. If you go after jobs far outside your reach, you run the risk of getting none of your bids and having to re-bid after most of the best jobs are already gone. The upside to this process is that officers have enormous control over where they won't go, even if they don't necessarily get assigned to their dream job. I'm not familiar with the assignments process for specialists, so I will leave that explanation to one of my esteemed specialist colleagues.
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Aug 12, 2009 03:26
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It's going to be a long week, so I'm going to sleep, but, Ferret's written part about first tour for Generalists is pretty much the same thing for Specialists. Take out A100, and substitute in "Specialist Orientation". and for FSOs put in "FS Specialist". We still have flag day etc. Although there are several specialist types that get domestic assignments, and some types have no choice on their first domestic tour(they aren't given a bid list, they know where they are going). But most of us do our first two tours overseas. From what they've told us, the second tour sounds very similar, except we don't have a Consular requirement. For that equity part, over half of our list were hardship and or danger. Most were 20% or higher if I remember right That's right Costa Rica, I'm looking at you to cash in my 25%. Vile or someone else who's further along would be better to comment.
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Aug 12, 2009 04:25
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Business of Ferrets posted:For the OP Added in the OP. Thanks!
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Aug 12, 2009 04:28
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For goons with a serious travel bug, I thought I should note one specialist job: Diplomatic Courier. These folks escort official diplomatic pouches (which can range from a small bag to whole pallets) to destinations around the world. I spent the past couple of days serving as a non-professional (non-pro) courier; in the absence of enough couriers, cleared American personnel are sometimes asked to fill in. It is not the kind of thing I would want to do full time, but I could see how someone really into travel might like it. Check out the State Department website for details. For those who are wondering how my trip went: the shipment of crystal skulls arrived without incident.
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Aug 14, 2009 05:48
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I've done a lot of work on the receiving end and talked to a lot of couriers. It's a pretty serious grind and you're usually in on one flight and out on the next. I really don't want to discourage anybody who's interested. You get to keep your miles, it's a foot in the door, and plenty of people like it. But it's a lot of sitting on airplanes and standing on tarmacs and not getting a lot of respect. Eventually you can wind up managing a group of couriers, but you'll still probably be doing runs from time to time.
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Aug 14, 2009 08:20
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Yeah, I maybe should have termed it as being for "goons with a pathological need to live on airplanes," but I don't have a good grip on what courier work/life balance is like. You're right, though, that some of them really like it, and doubly right that it is a lifestyle that would drive a lot of people crazy.
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Aug 14, 2009 15:18
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Business of Ferrets posted:Yeah, I maybe should have termed it as being for "goons with a pathological need to live on airplanes," but I don't have a good grip on what courier work/life balance is like. You're right, though, that some of them really like it, and doubly right that it is a lifestyle that would drive a lot of people crazy. I've heard that diplomatic couriers don't really live anywhere, that you can be floating for months at a time without a home base. Not sure whether it's true or not, but it sounds like a taxing job.
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Aug 14, 2009 17:42
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Regarding the medical clearance, what happens to FSOs that get a major illness, like cancer or diabetes, later in life? Do you get kicked out of DoS? Do they move you over to a civil service job in the US? Can you finish your career in posts that have adequate medical facilities?
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Aug 14, 2009 17:47
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xanthig posted:Regarding the medical clearance, what happens to FSOs that get a major illness, like cancer or diabetes, later in life? Do you get kicked out of DoS? Do they move you over to a civil service job in the US? Can you finish your career in posts that have adequate medical facilities? To enter the Foreign Service you need a "Class 1" clearance, which means that you are "worldwide available" from a health perspective. If an FS employee develops a medical condition that would preclude service in some areas of the world, the most common clearance is a "Class 2," which indicates "limited availability." For an applicant to be hired, only he or she requires a Class 1 medical clearance. Family members do not need to be cleared before entry on duty. To be able to travel to post and have access to post medical resources, though, all immediate family members need a clearance. If anyone (including the employee) has a Class 2 clearance, the Medical Office considers how potential posts would be able to support the condition (on a case-by-case basis). There are health units (including regional psychiatrists, too) around the world, so a moderate condition could likely be accommodated in many places. Those might not be places high on the employee's list, but there would be someplace to work in any case. Some FS employees with health issues in the family serve in Mexican border posts or spend a large part of their career in the United States. If an illness completely precluded leaving the United States, the employee might have to take unaccompanied assignments or convert to the Civil Service. Most of the time, though, some post, somewhere, can support a medical issue. Incidentally, learning disabilities are dealt with in a similar fashion.
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Aug 15, 2009 09:11
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Has anyone received scheduling information back yet? Considering how buggy the initial sign-up was, I'm wondering if it got hosed up.
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Aug 24, 2009 18:24
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Smeef posted:Has anyone received scheduling information back yet? Considering how buggy the initial sign-up was, I'm wondering if it got hosed up. I haven't heard jack about the FSOT... signed up about a month ago.
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Aug 24, 2009 19:56
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Defleshed posted:I haven't heard jack about the FSOT... signed up about a month ago. Same.
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Aug 25, 2009 05:06
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SWATJester posted:Same. Also signed up a month ago. Glad to see I'm not the only one waiting, was starting to get nervous about it.
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Aug 25, 2009 07:52
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Defecting to Nine posted:Also signed up a month ago. Glad to see I'm not the only one waiting, was starting to get nervous about it. This is status quo of the FS btw. Even once you're in. There's just a lot of waiting with the hire process where you have no idea whats going on. Then you'll get a letter/packet/email of really important stuff. Followed by more weeks of crickets. TCD fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Aug 25, 2009 |
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Aug 25, 2009 23:18
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Some new info on the website about getting back to us with the schedule:quote:E-mail invitations to schedule a seat will be issued first to Management and Economic candidates beginning on August 31st, then to Consular candidates on September 2nd, and finally to Political and Public Diplomacy candidates on September 8th. I just signed up - I'm a bit of a unique snowflake, because unlike you schlubs I'm still in lawschool (graduating December 2010). Hopefully that doesn't look too bad, but I'll gladly drop out if I get an offer before I can graduate.
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Aug 28, 2009 01:51
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Anthropolis posted:Some new info on the website about getting back to us with the schedule: I'd suggest you finish. As it is, you can typically defer an offer if you make it that far which would put you close to graduating, which usually takes months anyways to get passed the clearances, etc.
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Aug 28, 2009 02:17
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TCD posted:I'd suggest you finish. As it is, you can typically defer an offer if you make it that far which would put you close to graduating, which usually takes months anyways to get passed the clearances, etc. Thanks, I was wondering if it's possible to defer an offer once on the register - if so I will graduate. I figured there was a good chance I wouldn't get one until 2011 anyway but according to the FSOT Yahoo group the process is getting faster.
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Aug 28, 2009 02:29
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Anthropolis posted:Some new info on the website about getting back to us with the schedule: If you get the call before December '10 you can let them know your still interested but want to wait a few months. They start new classes about every 2 months so they can get around to you in a little later. You stay on the list even if you turn down one specific offer.
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Aug 28, 2009 08:07
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Anthropolis posted:Some new info on the website about getting back to us with the schedule: I'm in the same boat as you, except I graduate April 2010.
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Aug 28, 2009 19:14
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Anthropolis, SWATJester, Though of course this is completely up to you, I would recommend finishing law school and seeking/gaining admittance to a bar somewhere. All the FSO lawyers I know have continued to pay their bar registration fees and done their continuing education in case they wanted/needed to go back to the practice of law. Come to think of it, they all were already practicing attorneys before joining State, so for them it was just a matter of not letting membership lapse. It seems like a shame, though, to earn (and pay for) a law degree and not keep the options open to practice law.
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Aug 29, 2009 02:31
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Business of Ferrets posted:Anthropolis, SWATJester, My experience is a lot more limited, but I haven't met anyone who's like "I had a semester left and joined up". I'd really suggest finishing. The FS will be recruiting in the future.
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Aug 29, 2009 04:29
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I finish in April. I started the application process now because more than likely it won't have finished by the time I graduate law school, and possible not until after I take and pass the bar. I'm not planning on dropping out, don't worry.
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Aug 29, 2009 04:40
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DoS people, what's your take on this? http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/09/mercs-gone-wild-at-us-embassy-kabul/
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Sep 4, 2009 17:26
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Some people seem to be trying to make it into some sort of Blackwater thing, which it really isn't. At most embassies the role these guys perform is done by local security companies. There are still Marines on duty but these guys guard the perimeter, keep an eye on the metal detectors, watch over the parking lot, and that sort of thing. I'm sure the duties are very different in Kabul but armed American citizens with military experience is more than most places get. The totally-not-gay hazing rituals are unique too as far as I know. I have no idea if this particular outfit actually did it's job well or not.
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Sep 4, 2009 18:51
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