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What is everyone doing to prep for the written test? Off the top of my head, would recommend reviewing the articles and amendments of the Constitution and going through general high-school U.S. and world history texts. Also, maybe Strunk & White if you're unsure of grammar/usage. It also never hurts to know countries and capitals and to be able to place them on a map. This is the Foreign Service, after all!
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Sep 27, 2009 14:32
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Skandiaavity posted:Ferrets: is there an easy way to get into State? Not to namedrop, but I literally know like four people in H.R., 3 former ambassadors, a few senior level directors and a bunch of other people in CS and FS. I write policy for them (that they use), and they're happy with it - yet it seems impossible for me to land a job. What gives, what's needed, really? Resumes, Impressive Histories and Manners; things that usually get interviewers drooling, they aren't seeming to work. Am I 'too far ahead' in my career where it seems unusual for me to drop my current job to go stamp visas for two years? How does State feel about hiring GS-9/11/13 (and respective FS scale) positions externally? In the past few years there has been a move during the hiring process to better take into account applicants' resumes. That means that testing again could be to your advantage. Tons of people come in after one or two careers, so there isn't any prejudice against where someone is in life; all that is measured during the FSOA are the dimensions listed on State's careers website. The written exam (FSOT) tests experience, general knowledge and writing/editing ability. There is such rich variation in the people who are hired that I doubt there was anything except performance on the test holding you back. If you are really well connected, you could try to get a job as a political appointee. Most of these positions have been filled since Obama took office, but there is usually some turnover between terms and always between administrations. But it doesn't really sound like you know the kinds of people who could pull that off for you (if you do, that's fantastic!) I do think you are reading too much into the fact that you didn't pass the test. Lots of FSOs took the test multiple times before joining, so there is no shame or stigma in that. Take a look at the online application to see how things have changed (probably in your favor) since you last applied.
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Sep 30, 2009 16:41
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Ah, sorry. I couldn't tell when you had last taken the test. I don't think things have changed since '07. I came in under the old system, where the examiners knew nothing about me and simply passing the FSWE got me to the Orals. A lot has changed since then, but it sounds like you tested under the new system. Currently there is no mechanism for mid- or senior-level career entry as an FSO. A few times in the past it was tried, but I understand it was an unqualified failure. I don't know the details, but I have the sense State probably won't be trying that again anytime soon. (But who knows?  )Don't worry -- you're not overqualified for an entry-level FSO position. (Ok, you probably are, but so is just about everybody else, and the important thing is that State will not think you're overqualified.) If you can get an appointment by calling in favors, you should do so. It has to be better than a few years on the visa line. There is a formal process for specialists to convert to generalists. I believe it does not require the FSOT. But then, it sounds like you didn't have a problem with the FSOT, right?
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Oct 1, 2009 16:55
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Nice to hear that people found the FSOT easy. I do want to remind everyone that State/ACT is very strict about the nondisclosure agreement (NDA) from the test, and that any specific content of any questions should probably be edited out of posts to this thread. Of course, I didn't take it, so I can't tell what is accurate and what is sarcasm, so will leave it up to the judgment of individual posters not to include anything that could give others undue advantage (questions are reused, so the NDA holds even after the test is administered). When I took the old test in 1999 there were far fewer management theory questions; this is due to McKinsey's suggestions, yes?
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Oct 7, 2009 01:16
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The first few years suck -- visas are no fun -- but you're still living overseas, so it beats a lot of entry-level government work in the States. Once you get past the entry levels it gets much better. I really don't know many unhappy FSOs (well, not unhappy about the job, anyway). The attrition rate is quite low, too. What makes you sceptical about how rewarding the work would be?
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Oct 7, 2009 09:41
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Well, it is definitely a government job -- with all the good and the bad that entails -- so you're right about that. You're also correct that the overseas angle is a huge part of what makes this job great. I really don't think many of my colleagues around the world would say they are "toiling," because the issues they are working on are important to them. There is certainly a bureaucracy, but working in it can be very interesting and rewarding. I have worked at the Department in D.C. and found it fascinating. Ditto overseas. The job security is nice (especially these days), but most of us seem to be in this job because we just couldn't do the things we're doing anywhere else.
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Oct 7, 2009 11:44
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Sources give you high marks for your bus performance. . . . In seriousness, though, I didn't mean to sound like a douche. Just want to make sure nobody gets in trouble.
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Oct 7, 2009 15:06
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Vilerat posted:Another fun fact: They only send people to language training if their actual job requires it which most of the people don't actually get. This is true, but I would note that most generalists do get language training. There seems to be a particular dearth of language training opportunities for specialists, which I think is a real shame.
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Oct 11, 2009 02:36
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ProdigalSon posted:This is an interesting perspective that definitely contrasts with my own experience living overseas and meeting people who work in the US consulate. To summarize: Keep in mind that the folks you see hanging around near the consulate all the time are exactly those who are not getting out much into the rest of the city. That doesn't mean, though, that there aren't people taking every opportunity to experience the local culture. At each post I've worked, I've known officers and others who have had local friends (and girlfriends), traveled most weekends, and spent little unnecessary time at the office. And that doesn't include travel for work, which is common in some jobs. Admittedly, one nice thing in some places -- especially at large embassies -- is the ability to "take a break" from the host country when desired, by basically staying inside the embassy and interacting with one's peers. Even at the biggest foreign service posts, though, there is much more exposure to the local population and culture than people living on long-established U.S. military bases ever see, but usually not as much as most nonofficial expats will have. Of course, language ability will be a factor in how accessible the locals will be in many places. What city do you live in?
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Oct 11, 2009 04:42
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I'm pretty sure most of the folks at Consulate Chengdu actually live on the compound, so that could be what keeps them around so much. Don't know the living situation in Bangkok or Vientiane, but Bangkok, at least, is a ginormous mission, so I'm sure there are lots of people who just stick around the embassy complex. I can tell you, though, that Bangkok is a very sought-after posting, so I suspect that plenty of folks are getting out and enjoying the city/country/region.
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Oct 11, 2009 06:59
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Happydayz posted:However, the money gravy train is going to be turned off, and probably sooner rather than later. Have you been hearing rumblings that State's funding will be reduced? I figured the opposite would happen.
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Oct 13, 2009 15:37
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Ah, that makes sense!
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Oct 15, 2009 02:44
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Also I'm going to quit putting off registering for the FSOT. I've been working it up to be something I need to study a lot more for, but I got a 17/20 on the practice thing that comes with the study guide, and even if I'm not likely to pass the Orals if I make that far, it's better to start getting as much practice/experience as I can. I think the conventional wisdom these days is to do your best on the FSOT the first time and to view it as a practice exam/learning experience if you don't pass. So I think you're on to something. And you might be pleasantly surprised.
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Oct 22, 2009 14:31
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Congrats to the passers! Well done! To those who didn't: seriously, tons of FSOs took the exam multiple times before getting hired.
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Oct 29, 2009 15:22
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Defleshed posted:The only thing I can think of that put me under the bar were the retardedly nebulous "think of a time you helped someone who wasn't born in the US" style questions. It still boggles my mind that the bio section is a graded event, and counts for a substantial part of the final score. All depending on what people volunteer about themselves. 
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Oct 29, 2009 15:52
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SWATJester posted:Business of Ferrets: Any advice on the PN? I could use all the help I can get moving forward from here. Wish I could help more, but the narrative was not used when I went through the process. Based on what I found on State's recruiting website, I would probably give a very brief personal experience, describe what I learned, then clearly state how I think it made me a better FSO candidate by keying it to the precepts listed on the website. Be sure to follow directions closely. Also, keep in mind that they are probably running down a list of precepts giving scores based on your responses; I would make sure all the precepts were addressed, because partial credit will be better than no credit. Try to find a balance with your tone; don't sell yourself short, but at the same time don't sound like a douche. Sound confident and self-assured, but humble. Try to let your personality show through a bit, but keep it mostly professional. I think it's interesting to note that this is basically the process we go through every year on our annual evaluations.
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Oct 30, 2009 15:13
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Hooray! We're a "megathread!"
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Oct 31, 2009 02:28
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CherryCola posted:So has anyone done the language assessment? I'm going to need to do one in Hindi or Urdu (or both? they're so drat similar) I'm sort of wondering what kind of vocab I should be reviewing. I can hold my own decently well, but I'm just wondering how the interviews are usually laid out. I think someone in the first page or two of this thread took one of the phone tests; you might PM them. Also, on the Yahoo groups listed in the OP the pre-employment phone test has been a periodic topic of conversation. It was a long time ago that I took the phone test. Having lived and worked in-country and later having taught the tested language in the U.S., there wasn't much doubt I would pass. I just remember a brief discussion on current events, social issues and hobbies.
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Oct 31, 2009 10:31
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Mask posted:Sorry if that came off as a 'holier than thou' write up, I meant it more so that if one was not the most versed in IR or specifically versed in one region and not much else, how well do you think they would do through the initial process of attempting to get hired as an FSO? I just feel as if the test might be a bar higher (or several) than what I would be ready for or am I just over thinking the process? I think what I would recommend is signing up for the next test, doing whatever prep you want/think you need, then approaching the test as a trial run. If you pass, great. If not, you will have a much better feel for where your background fits in the testing process, so you will know what to work on for the next iteration. I can tell you for certain that your "extensive understanding" of the Middle East will not get you to the orals; it will maybe help you on one or two questions on the whole FSOT. The Oral Assessment is basically testing your judgment and how well you follow directions or work with others. Area knowledge will not matter, so don't fret if you are underinformed about what is going on in the rest of the world. Your first post did make you sound like a douche, so try to avoid that approach at the orals. Keep in mind that the concept of "worldwide availability" is really being emphasized right now, especially in light of increased staffing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Near East is a good place to have experience (especially language proficiency) these days, but try not to give the impression that you would not serve anywhere else; if the examiners infer that, you might find yourself without a passing score. Take the test and give it a try. You get to test once each year, so don't put it off too long if you think you might try more than once if the first time doesn't pan out.
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Nov 3, 2009 14:33
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This is just my opinion: The Orals are very selective, but not necessary difficult. I went into them casually and without preparation (I had a completely different career in mind when I took them on a whim), did well enough to pass, and went from there. Can't say I found it difficult, but I will admit to being genuinely surprised to hear I had passed. Whatever fatigue I might have felt at the time evaporated during my walk back to the hotel. That said, if I hadn't passed both the written and oral exams on the first try, I would probably have less positive things to say about the process. The Orals are a higher bar than the FSOT for sure, but hardly impossible.
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Nov 3, 2009 15:35
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Xandu posted:What do Foreign Affairs Officers do and how do they differ from FSOs, other than being stationed domestically? Foreign Affairs Officer is a job title for many DC-based positions. When on a domestic assignment, FSO commonly encumber these jobs, so they also take the job title. In this sense, there is no difference between FSOs and Foreign Affairs Officers. Lots of these positions, though, are permantly filled by Civil Service employees. These employees thus do the same kind of work that FSOs do in DC but are not in the Foreign Service personnel system, do not move on to other assignments every few tears (for Civil Service, changing jobs would involve a formal job search) and have a much lower chance of ever being assigned overseas. (In Statespeak, Civil Service is used to differentiate employees in the standard government personnel system (GS scale) from those in the Foreign Service. It does not suggest that FSOs or specialists are not civil servants in the traditional sense.)
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Nov 5, 2009 00:30
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Well, everything came together, and I will be off to Baghdad in the spring.
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Nov 9, 2009 13:44
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Vilerat posted:I can answer all your questions about serving at US Embassy Baghdad Sweet. Though I understand I will be living in an apartment, not a trailer. Sounds like some things are much better these days!
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Nov 10, 2009 02:22
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Ah, so that's why the housing questionnaire asks whether you "like your room cold." I'm considering asking for a "neat" and "quiet" suitemate, but part of me is worried I will get someone absolutely OCD beyond the pale.
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Nov 10, 2009 16:02
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Oh man. That sucks.
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Nov 13, 2009 18:12
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CherryCola posted:I just submitted my Personal Narrative! So now I'm putting together a vocab list to cram before my proficiency test tomorrow. Are they going to be super pissed if I use a cellphone for that? I really just don't have access to a private landline! What language? And how do you think it went?
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Nov 13, 2009 18:14
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So today I was reviewing a few early applications for summer internship positions and it really brought home how very terrible the formatting is on these things. Each five-page report is single spaced and lists both questions and answers in the same font and without any paragraphing to aid with reading. And the first three pages or so contain maybe one or two useful bits of information hidden among questions about ethnicity, disability, etc. (which are admittedly important, but decidedly not helpful in choosing a summer intern).  I think I'm starting to understand why my supervisor decided to delegate this "important task" this time around. . . . 
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Nov 23, 2009 15:10
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xanthig posted:Did the applicants get to format them themselves, or was the information fed into some sort of web form? Because given some of the front end interface issues I have had with the web forms, I would guess that the back end output is just as bad. Yeah, it's a web form.
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Nov 24, 2009 14:55
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Nice! Which language?
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Nov 25, 2009 00:18
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CherryCola posted:Urdu! Welcome to Pakistan!
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Nov 25, 2009 16:46
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For those of you doing the generalist orals, have you chosen your testing location yet? Every year around Thanksgiving I remember that I tested in San Francisco the day before Thanksgiving, flew back home the next day, wife picked me up at the airport and we went looking for someplace to have Thanksgiving supper. It was late, and the  It did get me a job, though, so I guess not a bad trade.  Also, thought I would toss out there that I have served in Russia, China and Washington, D.C. in case anyone has any questions.
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Dec 1, 2009 14:15
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xanthig posted:Onto another topic, Business of Ferrets, where in China did you serve? How bad was the surveillance while you were there? I've been in Beijing and Guangzhou (formerly Canton). The watchers are here but I try not to let them bother me. Most people get used to it after a while. SWATJester posted:Interesting read on the language program from a 2nd tour FSO in Rome. Man, that brings back lots of memories. In preparation for my current job I took the State Department's two-year Chinese course. Great course, but Chinese is seriously difficult.
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Dec 2, 2009 08:39
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xanthig posted:What level did you achieve by the end of the two year course? I finished with a 3/3 (speaking/reading) on the ILR scale. I started from nothing.
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Dec 2, 2009 14:46
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Pompous Rhombus posted:How is the written test? Do they do it in-house, or through Language Testing International? When I checked I don't think LTI had a written test for Thai, which kinda negates the majority of what I studied. All the language testing is done in house, and only FSI-tested scores are valid. Tests like the HSK and JLPT don't have any relevance inside the State Department, and I know that none of my cohort of Chinese-language students took the HSK. I have heard that each year one or two people in the two-year Japanese course prepare for and take the JLPT, but that is more for personal achievement goals than anything work related. State uses the Interagency Language Roundtable (ILR) system of rating. Though ILR covers the five skills of speaking, writing, reading, listening, translation performance and interpretation performance, State only tests for speaking and reading. The ILR Scale goes from zero to five, with five being an educated native speaker of the target language. At State, jobs requiring language proficiency are known as Language Designated Positions (LDPs) and jobs where the language would be useful but not required are Language Preferred Positions (LPPs). Except at the entry-level, where language requirements are sometime lowered to account for limited training time, most LDPs require a level three in both speaking and reading. Thus the job description would be annotated S-3/R-3, or just 3/3. The ILR scale also has "plus" grades, so someone might have a 3+/3 in Russian, for example.
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Dec 7, 2009 14:28
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SWATJester posted:I believe it is an Exempted Service position, meaning no. I think the terminology is Excepted Service, in case anyone is trying to google this. e: corrected a typo that was bugging me. Business of Ferrets fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Dec 9, 2009 |
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Dec 8, 2009 09:37
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Back to language stuff, I'm applying for a one-year language grant for 2010. It's intended for professionals, and I'm applying with the angle of it being useful to a career in the Foreign Service. To that end, I need to sell my application to the foundation as having a rigorous, full-time program of study that's tailored specifically to the needs of an FSO. As it turns out, the most likely place I'm applying to study at happens to be the school used by the Foreign Service Institute, diplomats get a choice of studying there or in DC. The downside is that I've probably already had the equivalent of most of the 900-1000 hours they offer, so I'm kind of on my own for coming up with the advanced, upper level stuff. What language is it and what school are you considering? I'm not aware of any voluntary options besides FSI, though students of some very-low-density languages do wind up in contract programs, rarely. For content, be sure you can cover social issues, including health care, education, retirement, (un)employment, drug use and the interwebs. You should be able to talk about the structure and responsiblites of the U.S. Government. Also, taxation, rule of law. Econ and science topics show up a lot, too. There is no specific test for Pol or Cons officers, so you will want to be well versed in as much as possible.
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Dec 9, 2009 06:24
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Thailand is awesome, and I hear that Chiang Mai has some amazing food (even by Thai standards). But then you probably know that better than me! Depending on one's cone, the language could be used for anything. I would say that interviewing skills (asking questions, followup questions, etc.) are important to develop. You might take the opportunity to build vocab and familiarity regarding counterterrorism or refugee/border issues, especially with relation to Burma. Stuff like that will make you a more interesting language testee and should make the essay sound sexier.
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Dec 9, 2009 10:26
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CherryCola, are you going the specialist route or the generalist (FSO) route? Or do you have several candidacies in play? I'm not sure that specialists get the language bump; does anyone know?
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Dec 10, 2009 06:15
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CherryCola posted:I'm applying for a plain ol' consular track position. This could work out very well for you, should you pass the orals and get into A-100 (with the language bonus, the latter is almost certain if you accomplish the former). You would be sitting pretty if you were able to get a Pakistan Cons tour for your first assignment. Under the entry-level bidding rules, you would pretty much get your pick of jobs for your second tour. I know, first things first (pass the FSOA). But if you do that, the rest should be pretty straightforward.
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Dec 10, 2009 14:06
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You're right, Vilerat. IC --> PC is automatic ban, while PC --> IC involves a significant mandatory wait time (years) and other restrictions after entry on IC duty. Of course, State is not part of the IC (excepting INR), so no worries at all.
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Dec 11, 2009 14:34
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