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Like I said, I took summer courses at Columbia so I've got a good feel for the school, plus I love Chicago. Glad to see I can really challenge myself there. I used to post a lot in the Daily Drawing threads and I do draw quite a lot. If you ask a teacher to challenge you will they? I know most of what you've said makes it seem like the teachers are only there to teach you a little but if you work with them and bust your rear end do they give you more poo poo to do? Thanks for the info so far though, you've helped a lot. edit: hey there page 2
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Oct 5, 2009 04:04
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Well, teachers do challenge you. But they can tell a deadbeat from a mile away, and to be honest, it's not their job to make students give a poo poo or to motivate them. Just build a relationship with your teachers, because they all love seeing potential in students. And when they find that, they may hold you more accountable, and you will hold yourself more accountable because you don't want to be a deadbeat. I think this all makes sense. College is weird because it's an 'adult' setting where people come to acquire a skill so they can go do things outside of college. Some kids go to college because its just "what you do" after high school or they liked watching crappy anime many animation students. It's an adult setting, but not a professional setting, so you can't be fired. So then teachers can become drones that are paid to tolerate kids that don't give a poo poo. Then they don't give a poo poo about those kids. Just don't be one of those kids and they will give a poo poo! Once again, I think this makes sense.
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Oct 5, 2009 04:26
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Do animation departments at other schools have a disproportionate amount of hosed up students? In our intro to 2D animation class alone, we had crazy Korean kid who hasn't improved a bit and last I heard he threatened a teacher for giving him a C (to pass and get rid of him) and demanded an A, Asian kid who draws furries (they're like an inch big and he says he animated that size to save time (no, you can't tell what is happening)) and talks to himself, bipolar perky anime chick, talkative fat kid (turned a pitch for a 10 second story into a half hour episode), and bipolar perky anime chick's roommate who is actually cool only if separated from her. Maybe just public universities have these people? 
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Oct 5, 2009 04:27
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Megera posted:Maybe just public universities have these people? I had plenty going to school, most got weeded out in the concept development class for the senior film. I just want to jump in and plug this badass thing I discovered. The Nintendo DSi has an animation studio in it. A straight-up, full on, free animation studio that you can download for free. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipnote_Studio It's pretty simple, but it also means that you have a loving animated sketchbook that you can keep in your pocket and jot stuff into at any time. I've done more animating in the last month with this thing than I have in a long time. You can also post what you've made to the internet. There's a ton of garbage out there and some generic 4chan idiocy, but there are some real loving gems. Most will be along the lines of well-animated stick fighting: http://flipnote.hatena.com/5A49699031CD318D@DSi/movie/CD318D_09167F40CF0F7_008?in=user But every so often you'll get some weird gem of cool animation: http://flipnote.hatena.com/5603B580CC7B1285@DSi/movie/7B1285_09203183792C2_001?in=user I just wanted everyone to know because I didn't find out until after I dropped 180 bucks on a toy. Check this poo poo out.
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Oct 5, 2009 08:15
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Matty D posted:And also I'd recommend between now and attending school anywhere for animation, draw your rear end off. Draw draw draw draw. I don't care if you are doing 3D or not. Drawing is so loving necessary it makes me sick how many kids can't do it. I've tried to draw my rear end off but I never keep it up. I'll have 3 days that I won't sleep and I'll draw the entire time followed by 2 weeks of not picking up a pencil. I think I need to regulate it into a daily schedule or sorts... How much time would anyone recommend that I draw daily?
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Oct 6, 2009 05:20
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Don't work harder, work smarter. You could draw for 10 hours a day and not improve if you aren't learning. There is a great daily drawing thread in this forum. Post everyday and look at everything everyone else posts. Matty D fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Oct 6, 2009 |
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Oct 6, 2009 07:53
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I agree with Matty D, portfolio reviews are important, some useless ones might get through. I went to NIU for Time Arts, I did animation, and post production. The amount of people who can't really draw is crazy and I did see those that do not understand the human form had models that looked like crap. I would like to find some life drawing places around Chicago so I can get back on track.
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Oct 6, 2009 21:28
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnEQVXzNiac One of my 2D animations, done in Photoshop and Aftereffects. I need to do an animation with a real story line next.
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Oct 6, 2009 21:32
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Something interesting I found today for all you students out there: http://www.animationmentor.com/landing/becomeanimator/podcast.html
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Oct 7, 2009 01:15
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Happy the Pirate posted:I've tried to draw my rear end off but I never keep it up. I'll have 3 days that I won't sleep and I'll draw the entire time followed by 2 weeks of not picking up a pencil. Start out setting aside 20 minutes a day and really stick to it. Even if you don't like what you draw do 20 minutes anyway. Gradually, you'll find yourself wanting to spend more time doing it. The quickest way to burn yourself out with a new habit is overextending yourself. Start slow and work your way up, don't just go straight for the 10 hour drawing day. I can vouch for this method, it worked for me. Also, carry a little sketchbook with you all the time and draw during your lunchbreak or while waiting for the bus. If you start to think about drawing all the time, you're more likely to do it.
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Oct 7, 2009 18:59
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Matty D posted:A pencil test for an animation I'm working on. It's of the cowboy i posted earlier. Still have to tweak, cleanup, add features. Really awesome. I don't know if you are looking for critiques or anything but: I feel when he takes a swig at the beginning he should be leaning himself back instead of forward, looking at your character concepts he really comes off as a sloppy drunk and when he takes that drink it just doesn't have that exaggerated punch that I expect from a character like that. Should break his back with that swig.  Also, when he begins to walk, his drunken change in direction at about 0:06 is really weak, and at around 0:08 it's really strong and has a lot of character. I think you might be able to hold that keyframe at 0:08 where he's trying to stay balanced before falling over a little longer.
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Oct 7, 2009 22:29
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tuna posted:Something interesting I found today for all you students out there: http://www.animationmentor.com/landing/becomeanimator/podcast.html Welp, I knew I should have gone to Cal Arts. pixelbaron posted:crit
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Oct 8, 2009 03:11
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Getting my feet wet in animation at a community college like 2 minutes from CalArts. I plan on sending my portfolio to CalArts fairly soon and pray I get in. I'm extremely modest, but still fairly confident. I have another book recommendation, too. Eric Goldberg's "Character Animation Crash Course". This book is amazing and has helped me so drat much.
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Oct 12, 2009 06:04
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I'm a professional graphic designer/animator for the power industry. Trained as a mechanical engineer, I read engineering drawings and rearrange them all pretty to teach people how power plants work. I do flash & illustrator, but I had to learn them on the job. I can field questions about what I do. I can't do those cool cutaways yet, sorry. So hey even if you don't expect it, doodling your way through class isn't useless. I'm not doing fine art like you guys, it's all about speed and visualization.
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Oct 12, 2009 17:33
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BrokenCycle posted:I have another book recommendation, too. Eric Goldberg came and lectured at our university, and while it's obvious he's way more character animation oriented, he did mention a few things about storytelling poses and the actual designing of characters. I've always been interested in storyboarding and character design and was wondering if anything in this book would help with that. I'd go to a bookstore and look for myself, but I haven't seen a single store carry it.
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Oct 12, 2009 19:26
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I also never had an animation class throughout college, but I managed to luck into a job doing educational animations for middle-school students during my senior year and I've been there ever since. I work mainly in Flash (because it's quick, and in the education industry most things have to be done on a pretty short timeline with a very limited budget). Like Vaporware above, I had to learn everything about Flash and animation on the job. Flash is a pretty tricky beast, but it's becoming so ubiquitous I can't imagine being an animator and not knowing it. It's also possible to do some pretty high-end 2D traditional animation in it, and not just get the flat "flash look" most cartoons like Homestarrunner use. Like this video for Creep: http://www.lowmorale.co.uk/creep/flash/creep_FLASH.htm Here's the latest animation I worked on. I was lead animator for this, and did most of the animation with the exception of the second scene and the math sequences. 3D animation was done in Lightwave by our 3D animator and rendered into Flash using Swift3D. http://www.mathsnacks.com/scaleella.html It could use a lot of editing in areas, and the video encoding is pretty poor on the site (I didn't do that, I swear) but I'm pretty proud of how this turned out. As a side note, I was also the voice of the clown and the clown horn.
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Oct 13, 2009 05:56
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Megera posted:I've always been interested in storyboarding and character design and was wondering if anything in this book would help with that. I'd go to a bookstore and look for myself, but I haven't seen a single store carry it. No, there really isn't anything about character designs besides the absolute basics. I have a book by Tom Bancroft, "Creating Characters with Personality", that's fairly decent. I haven't seen many character design books to be honest. I'd just go to CharacterDesign and study others' work, or just practice a lot.
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Oct 13, 2009 08:43
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gmc9987 did you use the 3D flash tools to do the island shot & scale-o's body in the walking scene or an outside program? They were smoooth. I've played with it a little, but we work in AS2, so I don't get use it day to day. I know you're on the main timeline for most animation work (you just can't nest everything), but do you do much AS programming beyond gotoAndPlay() or stop()? We've ended up having to write several functions to speed up stuff that we have to do all the time like endless flows of arrows along a path and fading out the background behind a symbol to highlight it. What do you do when flash breaks? Do you have a guy-who-knows-flash or some secret flash forum where people actually answer questions about things other than flash banners & how do i flash web?
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Oct 13, 2009 14:39
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Oh sweet an animation thread. I'm in the Animation Mentor program at the moment, so if anyone has any questions about it, feel free to ask. Their name always seems to pop up in discussions, and it's been pretty great so far.
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Oct 13, 2009 14:41
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Just finished this bastard: Every frame done so far: 
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Oct 13, 2009 15:54
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Vaporware posted:gmc9987 did you use the 3D flash tools to do the island shot & scale-o's body in the walking scene or an outside program? They were smoooth. I've played with it a little, but we work in AS2, so I don't get use it day to day. The prison zoom-in in the introduction was done using a 3rd party program called Swift3D. That entire animation was made with Flash CS3, before the 3D tools were added, so for the fly-in shot and a couple others we used Swift3D. It's a pretty cool little program, it'll take just about any 3D file type and allow you to set up lighting, cameras, and animations on a timeline, then render the output to a SWF file you can import into Flash. That Scaleo walk cycle, though, was all hand-animated by me so woohoo thanks for the compliment!  As far as what we do when Flash breaks (and anyone who uses Flash will tell you that it breaks a lot), there is no secret forum that I'm aware of, and I am pretty much the go-to Flash guy at work. Most of the time, it's "back up your files, restart Flash, if that doesn't work, restart your computer." It really sucks that Flash is such a buggy program, it does a lot of things really well but it's so frustrating when it crashes 3 or 4 times before lunch. I don't really do any programming other than playback control and simple buttons, if we have a big interactive project we have a dedicated AS3 programmer for the complicated stuff. .TakaM, what is that for? That's a cool little pixel animation. What'd you use to make it?
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Oct 13, 2009 16:53
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Wow, an animation thread! I feel a little guilty for not having posted earlier, since this thread hasn't taken off like I had hoped. I'm a 21 year old senior seeking a B.S. in 3D Animation at DePaul University in Chicago. DePaul was the only school I applied to, since it was A) in my state, and B) had a Game Development program. Yep, I came here as a game dev student because what I was really interested in in high school was modding video games--making levels, models, and custom scripts. Well, all it took was for me to take one C++ class and I realized that programming was basically the worst crap ever. Then all it took was taking my prerequisite animation class, and I realized, hey, animation is pretty loving sweet! The DePaul animation program was actually created during my freshman year, but it's pretty drat good, with some great teachers, and it's growing really fast. I honestly never saw myself going this route, and I genuinely question whether I have what it takes to be a good animator, but I love it to death and I want badly to succeed in this industry. I'll echo the sentiment throughout this thread so far that when you go to animation school, you're definitely going to be taking classes with people who don't give a poo poo. But I feel like these people are largely weeded out by sophomore or junior year. Here we have some truly excellent animation teachers who really care about their students. Honestly, some of my teachers are more of my friends than teachers in a lot of cases. Generally, if you don't do the work and don't produce good animation, you won't get the grade. You'll definitely have a lot of lazy piece of poo poo students in your intro classes, but they eventually realize that animation is hard! Eventually these people will switch to Digital Cinema to "watch movies" or to Game Development to "play games." Now as a senior, my classes have narrowed down to the core 15 "good" animators, and it's awesome. Ask away if anyone has any questions about DePaul's animation program! As far as for what software we use, DePaul focuses entirely on Maya and After Effects. You'll definitely get your feet wet in the entire Adobe Creative Suite (CS4) package--I'm more than proficient in Photoshop just by using it all the time. We also have a 2D Animation concentration (B.A.) that focuses on traditional animation as well as Flash animation. I loving hate Flash with a burning passion and I couldn't be hosed to touch it with a 10-foot pole. One thing that's interesting about our program is that you're required to take traditional figure drawing classes before you can take some advanced animation or modeling classes. So that's evidence that we're not stupid. It really does help to have a working knowledge of human anatomy in this field. I feel like the blend of software skills, technical skills, and animation skills I'm learning here is going to give me a huge leg up in searching for a job, as opposed to if I focused purely on animation alone. I would be equally comfortable at a game studio, an animation studio, or some kind of production house where I composited footage and did visual FX. The reason I chose 3D Animation is that it strikes that magic balance between creativity and technicality. I still get to make video games-- right now I'm part of a student game development team working on a DePaul submission to the Independent Game Festival. Digipen can suck it. Here are some examples of animation that I've done: An old-rear end walk cycle I did freshman year in After Effects. God, I didn't know how the gently caress to draw back then: http://vimeo.com/3049447 An excerpt from a 3D animation I did last year: http://vimeo.com/4335067 Here's me dicking around on 16mm film for my "Experimental Animation" class. The first half of this video is the pure 16mm film scanned directly to HD, the second half (starting at 0:50) was edited in Premiere and had some 3D Maya animation composited on top of it. I kind of ripped off Robert Breer: http://vimeo.com/6724753 I wish I had more of my recent work up on the web. I was recently commissioned by my school to do a promotional ad for their Digital Cinema program. It was a one-minute short, and it will be featured in the Chicago International Film Festival! I'm hoping for big exposure. Here are some examples of animation that I like, and that you should watch: Here's some 3D animation by my teacher/adviser. A friend of mine was his animation assistant for this project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSTsApzjSMI Heavily stylized 3D animation. If you're an oldie who thinks 3D can never be as good as 2D, gently caress you. This is one aesthetically significant animation by David O'Reilly: http://vimeo.com/3388129 It doesn't get much better than 1980's Polish animation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuGBgD7Cv8 Some really sweet replacement animation: http://vimeo.com/4637506 Rockin' the Ambient Occlusion: http://vimeo.com/4130735 Fan-made music video for Grizzly Bear: http://vimeo.com/5904993 Great animation in a video game: http://vimeo.com/947190 The Robert Breer piece that I ripped off of for my 16mm film project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlpoppkVeic If you don't know who Jan Svankmajer is you need to educate yourself. He is the absolute master of stop-motion animation. Here is a (terrible quality) video of one of my favorite films by him. It's worth it to buy the DVD to experience his heavily textural films in full quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdfCOCIv_DU The Quay Brothers-- two brothers who are hugely influence by Svankmajer. This is a (terrible quality) excerpt from their masterpiece, The Street of Crocodiles. This is the film that changed me--introduced me to the idea that animation is an art form. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6xG4Nf9Dh4 .TakaM posted:Just finished this bastard: That's great! This is really well done. I like the timing and follow-through on the sword strike. I like how the two individual forward/back sword strike frames are slightly different. I love the secondary action on his hair. What program did you animate this in? LiquidPropiganda - I don't know what you are talking about because what I see is a great Flash video. Maybe you don't like it because it's not "character animation" per se, but your character design is very clean and well-done. The whole piece is a good example of timing and staging--it's definitely an entertaining and funny piece to watch. Kudos!
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Oct 13, 2009 18:52
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Sullik posted:Here's me dicking around on 16mm film for my "Experimental Animation" class. The first half of this video is the pure 16mm film scanned directly to HD, the second half (starting at 0:50) was edited in Premiere and had some 3D Maya animation composited on top of it. I kind of ripped off Robert Breer: Is your teacher Matt Marsden? I know he sometimes teaches down at DePaul, and he also has an experimental animation course for us Art Institute kids. We also messed around on 16mm. He's fantastic, and I've got an independent study with him this year.
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Oct 13, 2009 19:30
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Nah, Alexander Stewart teaches our class. Alexander got his MFA at the Art Institute, so he might know Matt.
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Oct 13, 2009 20:05
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Sullik posted:Nah, Alexander Stewart teaches our class. Alexander got his MFA at the Art Institute, so he might know Matt. Well he definitely teaches down there sometimes, so if you see his name pop up, I highly recommend him.
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Oct 13, 2009 20:11
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Matty D posted:Don't work harder, work smarter. You could draw for 10 hours a day and not improve if you aren't learning. I certainly agree with this. Looking on deviantart I see countless people who are drawing really bad art, have been doing it for several years, and have made little if any progress. Even though there is hundreds of pages of it in their gallery. I think its important to ensure what you are drawing is actually teaching you perspective, anatomy, lighting, line/pencil variation and control and so on.
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Oct 13, 2009 21:19
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Great thread, some really amazing work. Haven't seen much video game work though so I thought I'd toss my reel into the mix. http://www.alexutting.com I've been an animator with Mythic Entertainment for 4 years now. I worked on Dark Age of Camelot for a bit, but most of my experience has been with Warhammer Online. If I had to do it all over again, I would of went to a real art school and gotten a fine art degree instead of going to a computer school and stumbling my way through. I can't draw for poo poo and sometimes I feel like it's holding me back. There are stories about animators at Pixar who can't draw either, so I guess there's hope. And two animation reels that I find really inspiring while I'm at it: Cameron Fielding http://www.vimeo.com/2537742 Kiel Figgins http://www.3dfiggins.com/side_page.php?id=6
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Oct 13, 2009 22:27
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Sullik posted:That's great! This is really well done. I like the timing and follow-through on the sword strike. I like how the two individual forward/back sword strike frames are slightly different. I love the secondary action on his hair. What program did you animate this in? There are programs made specifically for pixelart, but I just haven't spent the time to learn them yet. @gmc9987: I'm making a game with a friend.   You can download an older demo of how the game used to be here, but a lot has changed since then. .TakaM fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Oct 23, 2009 |
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Oct 14, 2009 00:02
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Some drunk cowboy stills from the animation im working on. Still a WIP, so busy.   Some other art for a new animation im working on. Fat guy skippin rope. 
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Oct 14, 2009 04:38
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That fat guy doesn't look enthused. Your drawings have a lot of character, I dig 'em.
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Oct 14, 2009 04:50
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Ok here's something that I don't understand about the new motion tweens. Maybe someone has heard of this. New Motion Tweens inside symbols don't work between flash files, the motion path is offset/broken!  Ok hurr I need to use this animation again, copy & paste into my new flash file...  Oh no! The gray line has moved, and now the cellphone isn't even in the right place! This is why we don't use the new motion tweens, even though they would be way easier. If I can't re-use a symbol in a different document, what's the point?
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Oct 15, 2009 18:12
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Sorry Vape, I'm a flash noob. Here is a pencil test of a fat mant jumpin'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8sIOVMvezc
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Oct 17, 2009 07:55
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Good jump. Shame you didn't post the blocking as there are a few things you could've incorporated easily at that stage: Overlap: those legs can be offset a lot more in their poses, as can the hips to the upper body. The skinny legs/hips/head are driving that heavy flabby body, so there's going to be an overlap where the middle torso catches up to where the hips are pushing them towards and where the head is pulling. And back down again: The torso is going to have more momentum than the hips and take longer to slow down, accelerate and slow down again. This different in mass is what is going to cause that overlap you're missing. Right now the body moves as one solid object. Spacing: Maybe an animation "snappy look" you're going for, but the ease out at the top of the apex is non-existent for the belt line/hips. Snappy motions need more overlap and 2ndary motion to really sell it. Speak of the devil: the secondary motion you have on your belly raises up too early on the down of the bounce. Maybe this is a line clarity thing, but the belly (line at the top where it reaches his tits) raises up only once it's stopped at the apex and is beginning the down. up>stop>up>down sort of motion doesn't read naturally. I don't think the head movement at the apex works too well with the rest of the motion right now, but if there was overlap on the legs at the apex (and less twinning), then I think the head movement would work well, as he's basically reversing his curve, but it's not strong enough pose to reverse curve into (its the same pose, just a curved spine), and just makes his head look light and wobbly. In fact with the legs it would be nice to see him do something fun at the apex, like a little kick or something slightly original than just a generic bouncing ball with legs motion. Ask yourself "is this entertaining?" before you decide on anything. especially in little tests, as those are the simplest, hardest, and really educational playgrounds in which to experiment. If the answer is "no" then don't bother animating, just go out and watch someone do it instead, see how they make it interesting, and store it in your "interesting things" bank in your brain for a rainy day. It's a good jump, I like how the hands stay really still when he's in the air, would love to see them stay still throughout as well, push that precision to a caricature of someone skipping, where his hands and skipping rope form a perfect sort of sphere while his body is sloppy and imprecise. [edit] Oh, and sorry I have to be pedantic about this, but Flash vids and youtube should be banned from this thread as much as possible (and animated .gifs especially) as if you want a crit, you're making it almost impossible without letting the person scrub forwards and backwards and view individual frames.
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Oct 17, 2009 09:25
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Oh, I didn't expect anyone to have an answer to my question, it was more a commiseration post. I liked the jump sequence, but I'm not trained in fine art to offer much crit. The most I can say is that it's really consistent. Hmm, That's a good point about crits. If you want to put up a flash video, you should probably include a frame-by-frame mode. I can offer these tips. the quickest dirtiest way to do frame-by-frame is by putting a stop(); in every frame and then using ctrl-enter in flash player to increment frames. That's the least amount of work. Then you just take the stops out and swf it out with a different name for a continuous loop version. Alternatively, put a button in that increments frame. This is for AS2, so it'll work pretty far back versionwise. Draw a button, Make it a button (f8, select type "button"), instance name it. (buttonName) move it to a layer above your full animation. select the frame with the button in it. hit f9 to open the AS panel and paste this code code:
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Oct 17, 2009 14:46
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tuna posted:awesome, thorough crit Yeah I probably should have pushed some things in the blocking. You should have seen how hosed up it was the first attempt, haha. I really want to start to push overlap, I paid most of that attention to the secondary action of his clothes. This is like my second attempt at hand drawn character animation (cowboy being the first) so I kinda got bogged down in all the details. Unfortunately I think the majority of this guy is going to have to stay as is. I can fix technical issues, but as for as acting goes I just need to move on. I have to animate a character rolling on a ball down a half pipe. I'll post blocking for that. And I'm uploading on Vimeo. Matty D fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Oct 17, 2009 |
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Oct 17, 2009 17:45
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Matty D posted:Unfortunately I think the majority of this guy is going to have to stay as is. I can fix technical issues, but as for as acting goes I just need to move on. I have to animate a character rolling on a ball down a half pipe. I'll post blocking for that. Oh, definitely move on with your next anim rather than go back and re-work the jump. It's a really good animation for your second go, and I understand what you mean about just getting things working  Vimeo is cool. Viewers can download the source (quicktime) file from Vimeo, and Quicktime is probably the best format for scrubbing.
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Oct 17, 2009 19:43
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Matty D posted:Sorry Vape, I'm a flash noob. This is good. Tuna gave you some good advice. Something I would say is that maybe you should play with the leg timing at the jump. They seem to move at the same time; so I would have one leg move up, and then the other start to move up a few frames later. Also you could add some character to the legs, by not having them have the same animation. For example you could outstretch one of the legs to have it barely off the ground, or bend the knee more and be higher than the other one. Actually, you could do that, but I find something really funny about the character be so formulaic in his leg positioning.
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Oct 23, 2009 05:56
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Could this thread also serve as a place to put motion graphics for the designers who do such things?
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Oct 23, 2009 08:36
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EDIT: Sorry for double post...
j0e fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Oct 28, 2009 |
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Oct 23, 2009 10:37
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e-x posted:Great thread, some really amazing work. Wow, small world...I used to CSR @ Mythic. Your work is really inspiring to me by the way. I am pursuing a career in animation and I currently attend animationmentor.com. I, like you, can't draw either so hopefully I'll be able to end up as good as you are now :] Any tips for a newbie? I'm learning all the basics right now (bouncing ball, simple walk cycles, etc). I'd really appreciate it as I would love to animate for Mythic/Bethsoft one day. By the way, Ratatat is sick! Nice song choice in the reel.
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Oct 23, 2009 10:41
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