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TrueChaos posted:Not in phoenix, but another poo poo engineer over here in Ontario. I'm on the consulting side, and we'd hire 3 more of me if we could find them. There's massive amounts of work out there right now due to lack of infrastructure spending over the preceding decades, which has meant tons of municipal infrastructure on the water/wastewater side with deferred work that can't be deferred anymore. Yeah, it's amazing (but not surprising) how few staff/project-level design engineers are currently available in the water/wastewater industry; it's basically like perpetual demand. I've also noticed that for my age group, a lot of engineers seem to be going more to the public sector over time, largely due to the quality of life improvements and also the fact that at least in the US, there has been a lot of consolidation of the major consulting firms, which also means that what used to be actual partnerships/employee-owned, where you could do the (ridiculously stressful amount of) time and eventually become a principal and partner, where you'd just chase work and make bank. Instead now though, you still are expecting to chase and win work and keep people billable, but that top-level partner option has basically gone away, so there's effectively an upper bound most will reach; I was doing 50-60 hour work weeks pretty consistently for the firm I worked for, and they were pushing me to go the PM track, but I really hate the idea of having to chase/win work, keep people billable so they're employed, etc. I also hated how much the firm exaggerated design efforts so that they could crank up the profit multiplier on projects, not that the lower-level staff doing all the work really saw much of that... But it's a neat industry in general, and given the importance and all the deferred work like you said, isn't one that really hurts for job security during downturns.
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Dec 24, 2023 06:50
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I can second that. Never worked consistent high-hour weeks though. Spent 10 years in the industry before making the jump to owner side in a different domain for better money. The path to a better than average salary just wasn’t there at the international conglomerate even though I was one of two EE PEs in the firm within 300 miles
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Dec 24, 2023 16:08
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Canned Sunshine posted:Yeah, it's amazing (but not surprising) how few staff/project-level design engineers are currently available in the water/wastewater industry; it's basically like perpetual demand. I'm very lucky to be at a firm that is entirely employee owned. The way we're set up is a bit different - probably about 1/5th of the employee's have an ownership stake, and the amount of shares you get to purchase each year is dependent on performance. Last year, the shares returned about 50% - roughly 30% increase in share price, plus a dividend of about 20%. I'm both the PM and lead design engineer for my projects, and for the most part it's fun. The consistent 50+ hours a week (with some hitting 100) isn't great though. I've gotten to the point where I know how to say no to the stupid weeks, and I have less of an issue issue with 50 hour weeks because I'm now WFH and I spent more than 10 hours a week commuting before switching, so I'm still coming out ahead. Can't make what I make on the public side, I've looked - it'd be a >30% pay cut before considering the bonuses & dividends. From what I've seen, the higher up I get the less time you spend working, though that seems to flip again at the VP level.
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Dec 25, 2023 15:35
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TrueChaos posted:I'm very lucky to be at a firm that is entirely employee owned. The way we're set up is a bit different - probably about 1/5th of the employee's have an ownership stake, and the amount of shares you get to purchase each year is dependent on performance. Last year, the shares returned about 50% - roughly 30% increase in share price, plus a dividend of about 20%. I'm both the PM and lead design engineer for my projects, and for the most part it's fun. The consistent 50+ hours a week (with some hitting 100) isn't great though. I've gotten to the point where I know how to say no to the stupid weeks, and I have less of an issue issue with 50 hour weeks because I'm now WFH and I spent more than 10 hours a week commuting before switching, so I'm still coming out ahead. Can't make what I make on the public side, I've looked - it'd be a >30% pay cut before considering the bonuses & dividends. From what I've seen, the higher up I get the less time you spend working, though that seems to flip again at the VP level. I think you said you are in Canada, right? It makes me wonder on the differences of Canadian vs. US employee-owned consultants. The firm I worked for had about 15,000 employees worldwide when I left, though most were in the US and its HQ is here. It's an S-Corp, but since it's private, we didn't get dividends, etc., and the bonus' were rather paltry for a company clearing several billion dollars a year. In general shares weren't performance-based, and you could buy as many or as few as you wanted. What was lovely though, to me at least, was that if you used the 401K that was available, the company would match it, but as their company stock, not as actual funds going towards investment. The company's "stock" price was set via comparison to other large, publicly traded peer firms and how they were performing. I was generally doing 50-60 hour weeks, yeah. If there was some type of critical startup or operation that was occurring, that'd get us up to 90-100 hours/week too, but in general, if just doing design or analysis, yeah, 50-60 hours. The firm as structured though was fairly rigid in terms of job titles/classifications/etc., in that if you were a PM, you were expected to solely be doing PM-type work generally (billing, schedule management, winning client work), and little to no actual engineering effort. What I've noticed is that what a lot of firms call their "PM", my old firm called the EM - Engineering Manager, who often would still be involved in designs, while also managing the various discipline efforts into the project, doing the day-to-day schedule management, and handling the initial monthly pay app process before it went to the PM. I was at the EM level when I left but was being pushed to go to the PM level, which I absolutely did not want. I took a pay cut to go to the public sector, but in some ways it wasn't as bad as it looks purely off the take-home pay, because I am saving a fortune in benefits, there's additional 401 contributions the city makes on top of the pension system, etc. Moving from the insurance we had at my firm to the city, saved us around $11,000 a year right there. Plus more time off, unlimited sick time and not-unlimited but very highly capped vacation time, that accrues and rolls over year-to-year and gets paid out when you leave or retire, etc. Sometimes I have been tempted to go back, because I've had some offers, including my old firm that basically offered what would amount to about a 40% increase, but I'm not sure I could take the stress at this point.
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Jan 11, 2024 18:07
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I work at a utility and have seen three engineers leave for private consulting/industry roles. They left not necessarily for the money, but because privately owned enterprises will surely be more “efficient” and will better reward their “superior work ethic.” 2 of the 3 came back after growing tired of working 60+ hours a week, always being on call, and seeing how poo poo the benefits and advancement opportunities actually were. The third died of a heart attack in a hotel room while traveling for work. 1 of the engineers that came back was a self-professed Randian Objectivist before he left. Ive been listening and he hasnt mentioned The Fountainhead or anything like it since he got rehired.
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Jan 11, 2024 18:39
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Thread, I need your help. My BIL is a mechanical engineer who worked in the medical device industry. He has been laid off a bunch over the years. How much of that is him not really building good workplace relationships/not finding ways to learn new skills and responsibilities and how much of that is corporate downsizing beyond his control is up for debate. He's getting close to the point where he would move (him + my SIL + their kid) back to Massachusetts if he found a job there, but being that we're in North Jersey and he has not been able to get a role with Stryker, BD, or a J&J affiliate, I don't think he'd find anything there. He was told in He is very pessimistic about his options anywhere else. Is there some way for him to transition a BS in mech eng and I think 10ish total years of experience in medical device QA testing to any other eng discipline or job? He's not the "intelligent and/or skilled enough to get the job despite not being Captain Corporate Schmoozer" but as far as my layperson ears hear, he at least knows his stuff. Is there something in pharma where a mech eng could transfer? Is there some kind of mechanical engineering career help site or organization that could help him figure stuff out? Edit: I got dates wrong. It's a lousy situation but not as long of a lousy situation, fwiw. Faults are all mine. MJP fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 23, 2024 21:13
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He’s an engineer he’s plenty smart enough to figure this stuff out if he cares to
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Jan 23, 2024 22:28
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idk the market for ME's as I am not one but if he has been working in QA testing and not design that might limit him, especially if he's been doing that his entire career. I wouldn't think he has to limit himself to only medical device companies, I would assume QA skills would be transferable to other products/markets.
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Jan 23, 2024 22:59
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unless this is a huge coincidence, I'm pretty sure I know your SIL, who asked the exact same question and scenario, and I gave them some advice about possible local certificate programs to pivot into more general manufacturing/CNC and it was pretty much immediately rejected because he didn't want to go back to school
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Jan 23, 2024 23:04
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The Chairman posted:unless this is a huge coincidence, I'm pretty sure I know your SIL, who asked the exact same question and scenario, and I gave them some advice about possible local certificate programs to pivot into more general manufacturing/CNC and it was pretty much immediately rejected because he didn't want to go back to school As a machinist who became a mech e, that’s a pretty weird trajectory unless he wants to have his own machine shop
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Jan 23, 2024 23:19
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QA guys I know have jumped around industries with very different processes.
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Jan 24, 2024 00:27
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Does he have a moral objection to Defense? A lot of Defense companies in MA and Jersey, and they usually have pretty well established hardware quality teams.
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Jan 24, 2024 01:45
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He might have to effectively start over and I’m not sure if he’s requiring a specific salary or not, but he could probably get a job as a low level design engineer in a number of industries such as power, water, etc. fairly easily just by explaining his past and such. I used to have a supervisor who was a ME for several years at a firm doing lighting and such and he eventually got into water/wastewster, eventually got a masters in Civil, and practices now as a Civil PE.
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Jan 24, 2024 02:49
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For starting over, water is a great pivot. Starved for talent and frankly the bar for success is fairly low as long as you can draft and review specifications and drawings. Some of this sounds most like a practice in your BiL getting his poo poo together. 2 years unemployed is a long time, and in 2022 it wasn’t hard at all to get a job
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Jan 24, 2024 03:08
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Any field other than medical device QA is going to require a lot of learning, regardless of what he does. Being entirely unwilling to go back to school does not give me confidence for his prospects.Canned Sunshine posted:I think you said you are in Canada, right? It makes me wonder on the differences of Canadian vs. US employee-owned consultants. The firm I worked for had about 15,000 employees worldwide when I left, though most were in the US and its HQ is here. It's an S-Corp, but since it's private, we didn't get dividends, etc., and the bonus' were rather paltry for a company clearing several billion dollars a year. In general shares weren't performance-based, and you could buy as many or as few as you wanted. What was lovely though, to me at least, was that if you used the 401K that was available, the company would match it, but as their company stock, not as actual funds going towards investment. The company's "stock" price was set via comparison to other large, publicly traded peer firms and how they were performing. Yeah, at a Canadian firm. It's probably a size related thing as well - we are not even 10% of the 15,000 person firm you were at. The benefits at my firm are entirely covered and better in some areas, worse in others than the public sector plans. Though being Canada, that's a roughly 4500CAD value. Typically private firms here will pay 50-75% of the cost of the benefits package. They're great on sick days, vacation, etc. So while it's occasionally stupid hours, I'll deal. Up here the real benefit to working in the public sector is the pension - but it's one of those things where you really do need 30 years in for it to make sense. I don't want to work till I'm 65, which rules it out for me at this point. There are certainly PM's who do only PM work at our firm, but I'm essentially doing the PM + EM role you've described. Win the work, run the project, lead the process design aspects and coordinate the rest of the disciplines, plus do all the client side interactions/workshops/etc.
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Jan 24, 2024 03:53
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The Chairman posted:unless this is a huge coincidence, I'm pretty sure I know your SIL, who asked the exact same question and scenario, and I gave them some advice about possible local certificate programs to pivot into more general manufacturing/CNC and it was pretty much immediately rejected because he didn't want to go back to school Yeah, we are very likely talking about the exact same person. I love the guy but he needs to want to work on himself or he's going to be stuck for a long-rear end time. CarForumPoster posted:He’s an engineer he’s plenty smart enough to figure this stuff out if he cares to this summarizes it far better than I ever could. He hasn't picked up any design skills as far as I know - which could be a very short "as far as", I don't know if ME is like IT in that something implies designing/creating as opposed to engineering/maintaining. Let me ask this as a layperson - are there any industries or terms that he should search for that would let him use ME med device engineering in other industries? I honestly don't know if there's an industry in the North Jersey metro area (or fully remote friendly elsewhere) that he should do research on. Defense industry = firm no, which I totally get. I'm the same way - I won't do the defense industry or law firms. IT means I don't have to be stuck to industries, and man alive, advertising already feels icky enough. The guy's just stuck on "nobody ever took the time to train me" - I'm also the same way, but I got over it and had to take a massive, un-fun, draining mental shift to push myself to study, prep, learn, and figure things out. It took me probably longer than others but it worked out - and he hasn't done that yet. I don't know if MEs should expect training and advancement provided by their company but my understanding is that nobody gets any training in the corporate world unless it benefits that employer immediately and the employee merits getting it. I don't think he ever had a lovely job like retail or an Amazon warehouse that helped him get some perspective, but that's way off topic. Not a Children posted:For starting over, water is a great pivot. Starved for talent and frankly the bar for success is fairly low as long as you can draft and review specifications and drawings. Dumb question of the day: should I tell him to look at water engineering? Fluid engineering? Hydrodynamics? Or is it some other term/field name/buzzword/etc.? edit: his degree is in biomedical engineering, not mechanical engineering MJP fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 16:06
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What stood out to me was the part about how he was told his job was being eliminated and then he just… did nothing with this information? He didn’t start looking for jobs until his first day of being unemployed? He might want to look inward a bit because if I was told my job was being eliminated at some point I’d be looking for jobs and interviewing asap.
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Jan 24, 2024 16:25
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Boris Galerkin posted:What stood out to me was the part about how he was told his job was being eliminated and then he just… did nothing with this information? He didn’t start looking for jobs until his first day of being unemployed? He might want to look inward a bit because if I was told my job was being eliminated at some point I’d be looking for jobs and interviewing asap. My forehead has not healed from the fractures I got due to slamming my head against my desk due to that. It is not the first time he had that situation happen - layoff/RIF, not looking for jobs as soon as it was announced months in advance and not using every free moment on the clock to find the next gig. I get working until you're done in order to get severance but maybe have something ready to slide into.
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Jan 24, 2024 16:37
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Sounds like he should think about a career shift if he's this unmotivated to look for another position or educate himself in his field. Perhaps entirely outside of engineering.
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Jan 24, 2024 17:37
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MJP posted:Dumb question of the day: should I tell him to look at water engineering? Fluid engineering? Hydrodynamics? Or is it some other term/field name/buzzword/etc.? "water engineer", "water resources engineer" or just "civil engineer" at a water resources firm are the usual titles I've seen
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Jan 24, 2024 17:43
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Is he.. depressed?
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Jan 24, 2024 17:50
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MJP posted:
Around here, outside of biomedical/pharmaceutical and the defense industry, the main sources of engineering jobs around here are in food manufacturing (Mars, Mondelez, Nestle, Firmenich, Givaudan, Takasago), civil consulting (AECOM, WSP, Louis Berger Group, Dewberry) and government jobs (Port Authority, NJ Transit, county public works, etc.), as well as a lot of smaller firms that do subcontracting stuff like HVAC and refrigeration. I think the food manufacturing firms would be the best bet out of those. There's a lot of possible ways to pivot, but they'd all require him to get out of his own head about how he resents having to spend his own time on preparing himself for it
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Jan 24, 2024 18:07
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I have a former close friend who sounds a lot like this guy; that is to say that he is the one holding himself back but refuses to admit it and chooses instead to blame the world and wallow in his misery. There’s quite a lot of jobs out there, just maybe not in whatever highly specific niche he wants. From my experience, being a dependable self-starter can get you a job faster than having an ME, EE, or whatever. Trainability is huge. Has he tried counseling or therapy? wemgo fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 18:31
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The Chairman posted:There's a lot of possible ways to pivot, but they'd all require him to get out of his own head about how he resents having to spend his own time on preparing himself for it This could suffice as my reply to any and all suggestions other than what he wants to hear and does not yet understand will not happen or be given to him. His pivot might just be "look for the same unrealistic expectations back in %homestate% and move there upon getting a job, but never do anything to move the career forward and risk layoffs in the future" rather than "find what you can tolerate, re-skill to do it, and start fresh".
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Jan 24, 2024 19:07
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totalnewbie posted:Is he.. depressed? Aren’t we all?
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Jan 24, 2024 19:35
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Boris Galerkin posted:What stood out to me was the part about how he was told his job was being eliminated and then he just… did nothing with this information? He didn’t start looking for jobs until his first day of being unemployed? He might want to look inward a bit because if I was told my job was being eliminated at some point I’d be looking for jobs and interviewing asap. Some people like to enjoy life outside of work. If I knew about a layoff in advance and was getting a severance I wouldn't be in any rush to start looking for new work. I'd probably start updating the resume and casually looking, but wouldn't start looking in earnest until I was done at the current job.
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Jan 24, 2024 19:47
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Yeah but this guy has a family and he hasn't been working for almost 2 years, sounds like it's past just a "I'll take a few months off between jobs".
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Jan 24, 2024 19:52
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Sure, but thinking there is something wrong with someone who didn't immediately start looking for work as soon as the layoff news hit is a bit weird.
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Jan 24, 2024 20:10
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dxt posted:Sure, but thinking there is something wrong with someone who didn't immediately start looking for work as soon as the layoff news hit is a bit weird. You can believe in a world that appreciates healthy work life balance or you can make yourself appear like an employable engineer. He chose the former and is paying the price on the latter. Whether it's wrong or not is outside the scope of "how can I help someone who hasn't worked in four years pick up where they left off".
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Jan 24, 2024 21:06
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MJP posted:My forehead has not healed from the fractures I got due to slamming my head against my desk due to that. I mean this to be helpful but truthful, the amount of helpful suggesting youre gonna be able to do is fairly minimal and potentially hurtful. Its gotta come from within here, and the motivate that is kinda the opposite of what flows from asking this question on a web forum. The answer is probably in here: https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Power-of-Vulnerability-Audiobook/B00CYKDYBQ And depending on how much you can't not "advise" this guy maybe this: https://www.audible.com/pd/Codependent-No-More-Audiobook/B0B621BWPR And I say this as a person who needs and has listened to both of those things. No judgement.
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Jan 24, 2024 21:41
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Biomedical engineering with an ME design focus could probably find work in the biological laboratory automation field. Instrument manufacturers need engineers (and sales if interested) to develop the next generation of instruments. Hamilton, Tecan, Beckman Coulter (Danaher), HighRes, and others could be an exciting change of pace. There are plenty of others to look into. Biotech is in a bit of a finding crunch right now, so not sure what the landscape currently looks like on the instrument side. I listed liquid handler companies but there are tons of applications (imaging, microfluidic sorting, thermal-cycling to name a few) that could be right up his alley. E: also this is 100% assuming the stuff above is fleshed out. Not trying to pivot away from the important bits. Mr Newsman fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 02:09
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I hate to dogpile but I agree on the dude needs to fix underlying motivational problems. The level of near-term advice you are getting here is one step removed from going to Indeed and searching” Engineering, within 50 miles”. And someone 10 years into their career should not need a pep talk to know how to do that. But, you OP, are being a truly awesome BIL for posting here and trying and I hope for your sake something lands
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Jan 25, 2024 04:26
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Pander posted:You can believe in a world that appreciates healthy work life balance or you can make yourself appear like an employable engineer. He chose the former and is paying the price on the latter. There's a large range in between 4 years and dropping everything for a job search the minute you hear of an impending layoff. Nothing wrong with taking a few months off.
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Jan 26, 2024 00:30
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dxt posted:There's a large range in between 4 years and dropping everything for a job search the minute you hear of an impending layoff. Nothing wrong with taking a few months off. *smeagol voice* too risky, too risky!
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Jan 26, 2024 09:44
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I’d like to not work, but unfortunately I’m addicted to money.
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Jan 26, 2024 11:44
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BORN TO ENGINEER FORCED TO CONSULT
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Jan 26, 2024 12:19
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Thank you all for the feedback and support. I 100% agree that he has internal work to do. He has yet to arrive at that point. We have all tried to get him to consider the need to explore what he wants to do and how to flex and find a way to do it, but he's the honest, anti-corporate, stubborn type. I know it all too well - it was me before I got to realizing I'd never get out of where I was by getting my employers to train me. IT is extremely different than actual engineering, but the one linking goal was that if you're below some kind of old-rear end senior exec level in 2004-present, you are responsible for your own development unless your employer loves you. He has yet to accept this and is blaming so much of it on lousy experiences. Most likely linked to his failure to upskill and at least make some kind of civil social connections at work. He's not smart/skilled enough to get away with an imbalance in the social sphere. How he realizes this is up to him, given the resistance that we have all received. He won't accept advice unless it fits his very rigid criteria, and my niece deserves better from her dad. I assure you that he didn't take a break to recuperate and be a dad after getting laid off - he was waiting on the possibility of getting hired into other related roles in the company that owned his jobs at the time. Lack of relationships, networking, etc. meant that when he started at T-minus a week or two, he didn't really have much, and has been hunting/applying/getting rejected ever since. FWIW, I was able to put him in touch with a guy who works at a pharma company thanks to a friend at said company; guy's degree is biomed engineering and has experience in medical devices, and is willing to mentor in some way. I'll also pass along the bio lab automation and liquid handling recs as well. Thank you so much for the help, thread. If this works out I'm throwing a few hundo at a charity in youse all's names. MJP fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jan 26, 2024 |
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Jan 26, 2024 17:12
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Excluding software, every engineering industry I interact with is dying for engineers. Literally just bodies, they don't even need to be good. Hopefully he can get his poo poo together and realize how much work is out there, stop pigeon holing himself, and get a job. Any job. He can keep looking if he doesn't like it, always easier to get another job when you have a job.
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Jan 26, 2024 17:55
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Don’t know if this is the right place to post it or not. Im trying to figure out my life. I’ve got 17 years experience in the Energy sector, worked design, operations and at the government. Current job is as a project engineer for a major project, that’s one of the most important for our multi-national company, and our CEO knows about the project, but I never get to present on it; I just input into the deck. I’m a helper according to Jung’s personality types, so I bring people together. I am not detailed enough to be a good engineer, I know that and don’t want to progress down (up?) the technical ladder. I’ve never done more than 5 years at a company, and I’ve never had a different role at the same company (if that makes sense, I’ve always left to get a new role). I’ve got a desire to get an MBA, but more so to get the piece of paper; I’ve done a lot of work with economics, risk management and some strategy. I’ve sort of bumbled through my life without a plan, I’ve always wanted to take a different job. I’ve never left for the same job, I’ve always wanted to get more knowledge and experience. How do I progress up the way, do I need to stick at a company for longer? Do I stay with the projects line, so I become a project director? But what happens if the project hopper dries out, and I’m stuck with nothing to do. This is a bit of a ramble, but feel in a muddle. I always have a plan at work, but feel like I need a plan in my life.
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Jan 26, 2024 19:11
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Oodles posted:Don’t know if this is the right place to post it or not. Im trying to figure out my life.
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Jan 26, 2024 22:42
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