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CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡
He’s an engineer he’s plenty smart enough to figure this stuff out if he cares to

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CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

The Chairman posted:

unless this is a huge coincidence, I'm pretty sure I know your SIL, who asked the exact same question and scenario, and I gave them some advice about possible local certificate programs to pivot into more general manufacturing/CNC and it was pretty much immediately rejected because he didn't want to go back to school

As a machinist who became a mech e, that’s a pretty weird trajectory unless he wants to have his own machine shop

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

MJP posted:

My forehead has not healed from the fractures I got due to slamming my head against my desk due to that.

It is not the first time he had that situation happen - layoff/RIF, not looking for jobs as soon as it was announced months in advance and not using every free moment on the clock to find the next gig. I get working until you're done in order to get severance but maybe have something ready to slide into.

I mean this to be helpful but truthful, the amount of helpful suggesting youre gonna be able to do is fairly minimal and potentially hurtful. Its gotta come from within here, and the motivate that is kinda the opposite of what flows from asking this question on a web forum. The answer is probably in here:

https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Power-of-Vulnerability-Audiobook/B00CYKDYBQ

And depending on how much you can't not "advise" this guy maybe this:

https://www.audible.com/pd/Codependent-No-More-Audiobook/B0B621BWPR

And I say this as a person who needs and has listened to both of those things. No judgement.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

Oodles posted:

What’s the etiquette for looking for new roles within my work?

I’m working on a project that may not happen due to external factors. We have a project milestone due in the summer, but this may get pushed further out. I don’t want to be surplus to requirements and potentially in a firing line, so trying to find a new home.

I casually reached out to a Project Director of a project I like the sound of, and had half an hour intro about his project which we kept on talking for another unscheduled half an hour. He said if there was mutual interest I’d be welcome on his project.

I’ve never had a different role at a company, I’ve always left for different positions.

How do I talk to my boss about it, he’s already aware I’m a bit concerned that my project may fall apart, but I’ve only been at the company 8 months and don’t want to come across as flighty, and don’t deliver. However, I don’t want to hang around for our project milestone which could be another 6 months if delayed further and miss out on a really interesting project.

You might be fine but you’re way off the best practices. An internal move generally needs blessing from your boss. Also ICs, especially new ones, ime, don’t have a great grasp of internal politics and what projects are 2-3 years down the line. Also it’s hard to make a name for yourself in that timeframe, enough to have the clout to make an unblessed (by your boss) move.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

Oodles posted:

I’d say it’s a giga slim chance he finds out, as it’s a totally different business unit, in a different country.

The team I’m in doesn’t have a development pathway, it’s like a cul-de-sac there’s no logical way out, so it’s down to me to find a way out.

The poster above me said it correctly be big caveat that country business cultures can vary wildly and that this advice is for corporate America business culture.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

Qubee posted:

Thinking of doing Dentistry, as a scholarship is possible so I wouldn't be saddling myself with debt. I think I would be overall happier in this line of work, as my work has a tangible impact and I'm bettering peoples' lives. Does anyone know of any Mechanical Engineers who have transitioned from engineering to dentistry? Is it crazy?

I know a few dentists in the US and none of them I’d describe as very happy. I’d highly recommend you talk to some dentists in your country and tell them what you’re thinking of doing and why.

I’m friends with 3 physicians who had engineering undergrads and some who worked for a few years before going to med school. They’re generally happier. 1 EE who is neuro, an internal med mech e with a similar dissatisfaction with mech e work, one peds oncology former mech e.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡
I’d highly recommend not making work your identity because if for some reason you are not or cannot do that work anymore, it tends to bring truckloads full of shame, particularly for your average white American male.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

General Dog posted:

Think these are okay responses for an annual self-evaluation, or is it too bluntly self-critical? This is for 2023, ended up being demoted a couple of months ago though it's hard to say whether it was a direct result of my answers here or if I was just telling people what they already knew. Never really discussed any of it directly with the manager.








- Those are too self critical. A person who could be described in total that way should be terminated. That said, I doubt this actually reflects what value you created for the company that year.
- You got demoted? I'm surprised you're still with the company. What's up with that?
- Is English your first language? If so, there are misused words in obvious places (affectives, rolls) and considering that you spend the whole time talking about your ineffectiveness,
- It reads as unsure/wishywashy because of softening language used. "Perhaps hasn't worked so well anyway" could be "didn't". Use of "I think/believe/just in several places".


IMO if one is going to give themselves a critical review, it needs to be sober and factual. It should have a clearly stated remediation plan/thesis. It should also clearly outline the value having you around creates.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

totalnewbie posted:

Self-evaluations are complete bullshit.

Don't trust that your company is ever going to take it at anything but its worst.

Self-evaluations are just another exercise in you promoting yourself while pointing out some "flaw" that is actually 1) not a big deal and 2) somehow going to improve yourself.

Things like the STAR method are a good way to answer questions like that. Give some background on the Situation, talk about what Task you were supposed to perform, talk about what Action you took, and then the Result, which is of course positive.

Remember that ultimately, your manager and HR's priorities are 1) themselves, 2) the company, 3) maybe you. Maybe themselves again.

Disclaimer: Not legal advice, IANAL, I have used this before successfully and spent a LOT of time with employment defense attorneys, but YMMV, this is US specific, there's nuance to this and it can backfire if done improperly. You 100% should consult an attorney if heading down this path.

If one suspects theyre going to get fired/demoted, self reviews can be a good way to create a paper trail that buys you time or sets you up for a better negotiating position for severance. I provide an example of setting that up below. I used OP's "Adapts to change and goals/deliverables". Since he didn't mention what his goals or deliverables were specifically, I'm going to use pretend he's a defense contractor manager of an engineering team since that's what I worked with last time I had to write self assessments (I was an IC then, but have managed engineers since). I'm assuming 2023 self reviews are written in ~Feb 2024.

"In 2023 my team successfully completed all tasks on the critical path for Advanced Next Gen Doohickey Block II (ANGDB2) PDR with a CPI of 1.15 and and SPI of 1.25. I have formulated a return to green plan to bring CPI and SPI to 1.0 in 2024, which I am acting on presently. Additionally, I directly worked with the customer to shape [team area] requirements for the anticipated BIDOMCOM upgrade, proposing innovative alternatives that allow us more flexibility to innovate. These were accepted by the customer and are expected to save 1.2 pounds from the aircraft and schedule risk in the design phase. In August of 2023, I realized I was having trouble focusing on some of my work with the customer, and was provided similar feedback by my manager. This difficulty concentrating caused me to miss opportunities to steer the customer toward our products. I consulted my doctor and was diagnosed with ADHD, for which I have now begun treatment. Subsequently, I feel more engaged with my team and have reengaged the customer regarding ____. I believe 2024 will see a marked improvement in the performance of my team and my collaboration with the customer."

Then you spend 2024 looking for a new job if you can't actually deliver on that stuff. If they demote you after you write that you now have an articulatable ADA claim. 1) Big def co is covered by the ADA [US company, 15 employees, etc.]. 2) CFP has ADHD that limits his concentration and work, a major life activity. 3) CFP's manager recognized this impairment. They were informed of this impairment on [Date of review or earlier discussion] 4) CFP was demoted for having this impairment [Thing your manager said about your concentration or something similar]. 5) CFP is qualified to perform the essential functions of the job [things to establish this].

While being aware of the elements is nice if you ever decide to use this, 100% you need to speak to an attorney. In the US plaintiff employment consultations are nearly always free. Check SuperLawyers and Avvo. You can PM me as well and I can recommend some near you.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

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General Dog posted:

Yes I wrote the self-review near the beginning of this year and was asked to step out of my management role 6-7 weeks ago. Been at the company 13 years, been in that position for 5 years. So it's not like I stepped into it and immediately face-planted; I think the role just wore me down as the scope got progressively bigger.

Is this the kind of place that you can have the career you want despite a demotion?

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

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Boris Galerkin posted:

Did something change in the last 6ish months that would cause them to demote you? Like not necessarily things under your control, maybe mass layoffs reducing the number of managers they need or something? They seem to have been fine with you managing for 5 years prior. I dunno, maybe I'm paranoid but I'd start looking for new jobs if I were you.

In his defense: In big defense cos I saw not great front line managers go back to technical at their previous level (usually T4s) and finish their career at a T5 which was the typical retirement position. That said. frontline manager and T4 direct following T3, so it wasnt actually a demotion, just a lateral.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 22:47 on May 7, 2024

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CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

General Dog posted:

As long as they keep paying me, sure. It's not a high priority for me that I work somewhere where I'm respected or where I can respect myself.

I say this with no judgment whatsoever, in fact I’m mostly projecting here.

I worked with people who have expressed similar views and they were the happier people in the office. They showed up at 9 clocked out at 5 and did the requested work in between. They had a valuable niche so they weren’t getting fired.

I’ve also worked with some people who were burnt out and unhappy. (Most quality engineers for example.) They would say similar things mostly to try to cope but really they did want the attaboys and for coworkers to treat them as valuable. I’ve met a disproportionate number of obese QA engineers in aerospace.

Luckily the culture of my first defense co team was one where people did generally respect each other on character/intellect rather than “works hard”, titles, or accolades from corporate. (Except QA engineers.)

I hope you’re the former working at a place like the latter. If so, nice! If not, I know I am now regretting not taking as good of care of myself over the past 10 years and I’d include my mental health in the lack of self care.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 8, 2024

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