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grover posted:Sales engineers, engineering managers, software engineers, all sorts of places engineers shouldn't really be working but are sapping from the workforce because they're hiring people with 4-year engineering degrees to do things only tangentially related to engineering? Yeah, it's hard to find engineers for these jobs, so they up the pay until they can seduce people away from more traditional engineering jobs. Employers really like people to have such a great technical background, even if they don't really need it. It's essentially a broadening of the field, and it's increasing demand for engineers. This is very true. My roommate did EE but ended up in software testing because of an internship and timing(did not want to take chances in the job market back in march). The pay was amazing for someone out of college. The thing is almost any college graduate that is computer oriented could do it. I've helped him with more than a couple projects. His job in no way needs an engineer, but they only hire engineers because they can. The worst part is the turnover rate is insane. The average time spent there is 3 years since most people leave when they realize they can't move on to development.
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Oct 2, 2009 23:35
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Magnificent Quiver posted:The point is to learn math, not be good at it already. You can start off an engineering curriculum with Calc 1 if you want to. Most of the people I know that say they are "bad at math" can barely pass precalculus or trigonometry. I think when you move up that far you are squarely in the "hate math" category.
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Oct 7, 2009 14:21
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Thoguh posted:I wasn't trying to start an argument (I love engineering and don't intend to leave it), just pointing out that in most cases, becoming an engineer means you'll be solidly middle class your whole life, never moving above or below that level. As an engineer you will, if you play your cards right, make more right out of college than 80% of the population. You might have to move into management to get big bucks, but right out of college you will still be doing better than the majority of the population even with just 6 months experience. The cap is there, but it is a great way to start earning good money as soon as you graduate. Most of the guys I knew doing engineering coops in college were making more per hour, as students, than the USA median household income. The earning potential is massive, and compares to people making a whole lot more when you consider lifetime earnings and educational costs versus strait hourly pay rates.
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Oct 15, 2009 10:11
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Dangbe posted:This is what I'm scared of. I have a philosophy degree but I still think its going to be an entire bachelors degree instead of just a 2 or 3 year bachelors. Lucky for you, you have money saved up. I'm going to have to do the entire thing on student loans. Even expense of living will have to be covered by those. If you enjoyed engineering? Yes. You would be paying 700+ dollars a month back to the loan office, but you would also probably be making twice out of college what you would with another degree assuming you had no real work experience elsewhere. If you didn't like engineering it would be a disaster since you would pretty much have no choice but to keep doing engineering. This is a trap a lot of people get stuck in. I know a number of people who payed big bucks for their law or medical degrees that hate what they do now, but have no recourse because their student loan debt is to high to start over. While 70k isn't as dire that is a large chunk of cash to have to come up with monthly if you decided you hated engineering and just wanted an office job. The worst part is when you hate your job/day life you end up blowing more cash in your non job life to relax, which means you can't afford to pay off your loans faster without hating your life more. The moral is do not go into big debt unless you are sure of what you are studying being something you can do at least long enough to pay off the debt.
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Oct 23, 2009 20:59
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grover posted:It wouldn't be compromised at all. I did an early admissions to college thing where I spent my senior year of high school at the local community college, and found (at least in my experience) that the education was excellent, and the overall attitude and work environment better than that of a traditional 4-year school. I think the difference was that although a majority of the people in the 4-year school were there just because it was expected of them, but it was really just an extension of high school and a time to party. Whereas most of the people in the CC were either there because they couldn't afford a better school, couldn't get into a better school, or were established in their careers and going back for their degree- one thing they all had in common was they WANTED TO BE THERE. They aren't just there to get by, but actually learn. And it makes a big difference. I think it just varies a lot on colleges. From what I could tell while the structures varied my CC calc courses were very similar to what my college offered. The thing is that I knew people at my CC that came from out of state and felt crushed by the courses because their CC was just so much worse. We also de direct transfers in state and most of the courses have 1 to 1 equivalents. There is also the fact that some colleges will use a course like calc2 as a weed out so they make the exams way harder than they need to be simply as a filter. I know, at least here, some of the fresh and sophomore year courses were ridiculous simply because they were designed to be weed out. Soon as you got in major the entire thing was smooth sailing.
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Oct 28, 2009 22:13
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:but I would not really know advanced theories of algorithms and data structures and such, and I'm not sure how difficult that stuff would be to learn on my own. Congratulations, you would be in the same position as 90% of the CS graduates out there. Most of them cannot even write clean code let alone properly use any of the theoretical or abstract crap they learned in their programs. I have worked with dudes that have a masters in CS that still don't get that poo poo. They are lucky their degree causes people to give them the benefit of the doubt, because otherwise they wouldn't be working. It isn't difficult to learn on your own, it just seems either you get it or you don't for a lot of people. Going somewhere other than your alma mater should be a consideration though, because a CS degree and a coop will seriously help you in the job placement department. Not having a degree in cs will cast a lot of doubt on your abilities, mostly by people who often are no better than you but who have degrees, so it can really help. Also a lot of the non enterprise/ cool more academic stuff will expect it. Did you know they hire a whole lot of programmers in finance? Juriko fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Nov 12, 2010 |
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Nov 12, 2010 22:58
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:Haha, nice. If I decide that what I really enjoy is software development, my ideal work environment would probably be a startup, similar to what my friends are doing. A couple of them are doing well making iphone apps and web apps after having taught themselves programming after not majoring in CS. I would probably pursue a degree anyway though to open up more opportunities. Make friends that work in the industry at any level, and ask them about their interview questions etc. as well as what they do day to day. Often interview questions where way harder than what you do 90% of the time at work, and it should set some expectations for what you will be doing on the job, and what you will need to know to get said job. You could easily be a great programmer at level X for some company, but 5 years of programming slick AJAX/UI stuff, or doing basic business logic can dull your ability to solve more academic problems. Now the knowledge to solve those problems is useful, don't get me wrong, but depending on what you end up doing you could work for years and never be faced with having, to say, create an optimized algorithm for sorting a pseudo random array of N items that form semi groups, or being able to run analysis on the grouping found in a data set and determine hit probabilities. Hell, you might actually be applying some of the process they are looking to see in your daily work, but end up stumbling over the more abstract nature of the question. Getting hit with open ended questions that are basically there to get you to apply CS concepts and see your thought process can be confusing as hell if you have spent 10 years writing internal business apps that don't really give a poo poo about n^2 scaling issues. The kind of interview questions and knowledge you are expected to show off for an interview will vary wildly by company and interviewers. I say this as someone in a similar situation, doing small scale software with a non CS degree. At this point I plan on getting enough experience that I can get into a solid if modest masters program for Computer Science (I have no illusions about going to my alma mater, they are in the top 5 CS programs in the country. I sure as hell wouldn't take me without an undergraduate in the discipline!) That is also something to consider. You might find yourself better off looking for a decent Masters program that will let you play a bit of catch up and avoid going into debt for a second bachelors(remember, federal loans wont be an option this time around). I have known art/music majors that have done their masters in EE/ME and it can actually take about the same amount of time as getting your second bachelors.
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Nov 17, 2010 13:49
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You should contact schools your are interested in, because I don't think most college really have hard cutoffs like that for bachelors holders seeking a masters. They will say what successful applicants typically have, but it isn't a hard requirement by any means, and like all things in life you can often weasel your way around any requirement if you talk to the right people. This is obviously way easier if you are staying in state. At worst they might tell you to take some courses, like data structures and algorithms, at a CC/Uni to meet some minimum standard, assuming you are otherwise an acceptable applicant. Your biggest problem would probably be that colleges have been overflowing with Graduate apps, so the competition could be very rough. Also, I know my old college, the University of Washington, was rolling out a joined BS/M program which would accept postbats(they say they don't, but again if you talk to the department they will). So while it wouldn't be ideal you could probably get through your masters and bachelors in like 2.5 years if you had a decent math background in that kind of program, and the school is well regarded. It is a great place to do a masters. I am not sure about the loan situation, but I was under the impression that you where only covered period for your first degree. I would like to be wrong on that though.
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Nov 18, 2010 01:15
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Qwertyiop25 posted:I understand what you're saying but I saw some things in earlier pages about people who majored in Biological Engineering having trouble getting jobs. Right now I'm mostly between ChemE and CompSci or Computer Engineering. What kind of jobs would I be looking at with these degrees? Job prospects and employment ease will vary dramatically based on where you are and your educational experience. For example, around here there is no shortage of programmers. Companies saying there is a shortage of engineers/programmers often come from two places A. There is a distinct shortage of highly skilled engineers with experience or a specific specialization they need. B. The company is huge, has a ton of cash, and likes to hire engineers to do anything remotely technical regardless of need. I swear to god you see the latter all the time in the software field. When you have a lot of cash on hand why not have functional testers that have a masters in CS? Anyways, point being that your market will dictate how hard it is to get your first job. The best way to get around it is always to intern/coop at a real place that gives you real work. This is how a lot of places weed out young blood. People having trouble finding a job are often either in a place where there is less work, or they are in a place where the competition for those jobs is fierce. If you get through your degree with 0 work experience it can be really hard to get that first job in many cases. Why hire the kid out of college when you can get 100 applicants with a few years of experience, or even a masters graduate etc. So get a coop. Really, if you want to take a huge part of the post graduation job hunt stress off your shoulders take as many coops/internships as you can at the school even if it delays your graduation. If they are half decent you will not regret it.
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Jan 27, 2011 07:02
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Dr. Goonstein posted:Would you say look into an Internship right after your Freshman year though? I figured after Sophomore year would be best to start. Do it as early as you can. Some companies love getting freshmen coming into their sophmore year, because they will have you do crap work for you that summer, then keep bringing you back as you improve. You get to acclimate with everyone and learn the ropes of the company etc. Now don't be surprised if you don't get one, a lot of places don't look for interns/coops before their junior years, but it is worth a shot. Also, if you have any specific companies in mind look into their internship/coop stuff before hand, because a lot of places will not do them for non students. While you will be able to find something you are seriously limiting your choices by not doing one till after graduation.
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Jan 27, 2011 16:08
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